Visa & Telephone Fraud

Brendan552004

My Daughter went to France for a month to learn French, she is just 17, she went with a number of other students from her school.

She could not ger her own credit/debit card, I loaned her my Visa for the month. She phoned home on a regular basis using a phone card, cost 10 euro, she got about 30 mins per card.

The day before she was to return, she phoned us with her flight details, the phone box had an add. "Use Visa or Mastercard cheaper than phone cards.

She phoned us using the Visa, call lasted no longer than 5 mins. Just got my Visa statement 44 euro for a 5 min call. My daughter has checked with some of her classmates. One girl, her mother is a single mother, 3 5/7 min calls to her mother one other to her grannie, total billed 174 euro.

I have contacted Visa, they told me that they could do nothing about it, put it down to experience.

Any ideas on how to sort this out.

Brendan

Cabaal

May have been the case that the advert was not legit and as such is a scam to overchange users, can they not do a chargeback?

Sizzler

Hi Brendan

Thats BS explanation from Visa. Tell them it was unauthorised transaction and you want back up for it.

They can easily charge this back to the merchant, sounds like you got a lazy CS person who was fobbing you off.

Keep the item under query and they cannot charge you interest on it till the matter is resolved to your satisfaction.
Let us know how you get on...

Hotblack Desiato

Shouldn't you be contacting the card-issuing bank directly and not Visa?

ircoha

Brendan552004 wrote:

My Daughter went to France for a month to learn French, she is just 17, she went with a number of other students from her school.

She could not ger her own credit/debit card, I loaned her my Visa for the month. She phoned home on a regular basis using a phone card, cost 10 euro, she got about 30 mins per card.

The day before she was to return, she phoned us with her flight details, the phone box had an add. "Use Visa or Mastercard cheaper than phone cards.

She phoned us using the Visa, call lasted no longer than 5 mins. Just got my Visa statement 44 euro for a 5 min call. My daughter has checked with some of her classmates. One girl, her mother is a single mother, 3 5/7 min calls to her mother one other to her grannie, total billed 174 euro.

I have contacted Visa, they told me that they could do nothing about it, put it down to experience.

Any ideas on how to sort this out.

Brendan

Brendan,
It would be nice to have more detail on how she actually made the call.

In other words did she just put the card into the phone like an atm machine or was it like the more usual fone cards where u key in c 24 digits, before you dial the actual fone number.

If the latter then VISA need to be told to close down that merchant.

In passing I would get a new CC number from them as what is to stop these b......ds billing u for an additional call now that they have your number.

Am I paranoid re CC's: Yes

As other posters have said, keep the pressure on Visa and dont pay it.

Get the other parents involved also.

Visa need to be advising their customers about such scams now that they know

BC

If my understanding of your post is correct then I agree with visa - put it down to experience. There was no fraudelent transaction your daughter was just charged more than she expected to be charged for a phonecall.

Let the buyer beware unfortunately. There could have been many terms on the ad just as the calls are only cheaper if you phone between 2am and 4am or something. Read the ad in more detail in future...

Sizzler

BC wrote:

If my understanding of your post is correct then I agree with visa - put it down to experience. There was no fraudelent transaction your daughter was just charged more than she expected to be charged for a phonecall.

Let the buyer beware unfortunately. There could have been many terms on the ad just as the calls are only cheaper if you phone between 2am and 4am or something. Read the ad in more detail in future...

You dont happen to work for a bank do you :rolleyes:

Let the guy challenge the cost. Its not for you to say what the quality of the small print was like. His credit card company can eaisly play ball here if they wish.

Paulw

Brendan552004 wrote:

The day before she was to return, she phoned us with her flight details, the phone box had an add. "Use Visa or Mastercard cheaper than phone cards.

She phoned us using the Visa, call lasted no longer than 5 mins. Just got my Visa statement 44 euro for a 5 min call.

I have contacted Visa, they told me that they could do nothing about it, put it down to experience.

This phonebox ad obviously didn't give enough details. Maybe it had other parts, like dates/times etc?

I doubt there is much Visa can/will do about it. It was your daughters choice to use the card in the phone, so it wasn't a fraudulant transaction.

All you can do is get on to the phone provider and question their charges.

ircoha

BC wrote:

If my understanding of your post is correct then I agree with visa - put it down to experience. There was no fraudelent transaction your daughter was just charged more than she expected to be charged for a phonecall.

Let the buyer beware unfortunately. There could have been many terms on the ad just as the calls are only cheaper if you phone between 2am and 4am or something. Read the ad in more detail in future...

With all due respect here to BC and PaulW, the OP is not asking about a fraudulent transaction.
That expression does not appear anywhere.

He says "Any ideas on how to sort this out." which for my money means how can we get at VISA.

I agree with Sizzler and I believe that VISA should approach the merchant here and get it sorted.


It is a pity the OP has not come back as I for one may be able to help him, and the other parents.

Paulw

But, it's not a problem with Visa, the problem is with the charge from the phone company.

So, chase the phone company.

Someone else posted about fraudulent charges.

Sponge Bob

Brendan552004 wrote:

My Daughter went to France for a month to learn French, she is just 17, she went with a number of other students from her school.

Thats your get out, she nicked the card. A person under 17 cannot have any form of 'contract ' can they so there is no 'contracted ' transaction. Charge it back.

Don't worry , she will not be extradited to France or investigated even

ircoha

Paulw wrote:

But, it's not a problem with Visa, the problem is with the charge from the phone company.

So, chase the phone company.

Someone else posted about fraudulent charges.

PaulW I agree 100%
but who is getting the bad name here,Visa not some scumbag phone company.

I am saying that VISA should cancel the merchant contract.

The OP should get someone in Franch to take a digi pic of the note in the fone box and post it up here to warn other parents of the scam

Hotblack Desiato

ircoha wrote:

I am saying that VISA should cancel the merchant contract.

That's Visa's problem, not the OP's, tbh.

The OP does NOT have a contract or agreement with Visa therefore is wasting his/her time in contacting them about this.

The OP does have a contract with the issuing bank and should ask them to charge back this clearly fraudulent transaction. IF Visa wish to take action against the merchant as a result, that's their business, not the concern of the OP, and has nothing to do with getting a refund.

ircoha

ninja900 wrote:

That's Visa's problem, not the OP's, tbh.

The OP does NOT have a contract or agreement with Visa therefore is wasting his/her time in contacting them about this.

The OP does have a contract with the issuing bank and should ask them to charge back this clearly fraudulent transaction. How is it so?IF Visa wish to take action against the merchant as a result, that's their business, not the concern of the OP, and has nothing to do with getting a refund.

?

As asked earlier, who is seen as the bad quy here?

Hotblack Desiato

Do you honestly think that 44 euro for a 5 minute phone call from France to Ireland isn't fraudulent?

Paulw

ninja900 wrote:

The OP does have a contract with the issuing bank and should ask them to charge back this clearly fraudulent transaction.

How is it fraudulent? Can you show the full text of the ad? Maybe somewhere in the ad it states the exact phone charges? You can't say it's fraudulent without knowing the full details.

All the original post said was "the phone box had an add. "Use Visa or Mastercard cheaper than phone cards."" There could have been more text. It might have said -

"Use Visa or Mastercard cheaper than phone cards. .... for all local calls, made between 10pm and 8am". Then it wouldn't be fraud at all.

It's a case of reading the ad, in full.

Paulw

ninja900 wrote:

Do you honestly think that 44 euro for a 5 minute phone call from France to Ireland isn't fraudulent?

It may be very very expensive, but that doesn't make it fraudulent.

wyndham

There is no fraud. There is no case for the cc company. She used the card and participated in the transaction. She may not have been aware of the exorbitant cost but that is her problem and nobody elses. I would not give an open credit card without knowing the rate at which I would be charged.

BC

wyndham wrote:

There is no fraud. There is no case for the cc company. She used the card and participated in the transaction. She may not have been aware of the exorbitant cost but that is her problem and nobody elses. I would not give an open credit card without knowing the rate at which I would be charged.

Exactly.
If the OP does want to follow up in then it should be with the phone company to clarify the terms/costs. Or if you really want to challenge it then its with the advertising standards authority (or its French equivalent).

And no sizzler I don't work for a bank.

Brendan552004

Thank you very much for all your replys, If it was not for the other students who were ripped off, I would put it down to experience.

Permanent TSB issued the card, I took it up with them. My daughter told me that all calls including phone card calls went through an operator. She was asked for the VISA card number. The city was Nice, she said all the phone boxes were the one telecom company. I do not know the name of the company.

What about the French Embassy, would they be worth a try?

I think I will get back onto VISA (Permo TSB)

Brendan

Guy:Incognito

ninja900 wrote:

Do you honestly think that 44 euro for a 5 minute phone call from France to Ireland isn't fraudulent?

No, its a high price which the person agreed to pay, stupidly. Thats the customers fault, not the bank , the card company or even the phone company.

If 20 shops are selling a tv. 19 or them charge €500 and the 20th is chargeing €2000. Is that fraud if someone buys it fron the expensive shop? No.

i71jskz5xu42pb

I have had a similar experience (in Madrid airport) i.e. really expensive call charges from a Visa call. I'm willing to bet it is the same company http://infonaa.com. Check the number referenced on the Visa bill and see if it listed on the infonaa.com site (or just google it). I complained to the company and they refuned half the amount without a query (sound dodgy?). I then took the issue to eccdublin.ie - they could not do much as the company is based in the US. They were able to tell me that the same company had complaints registered against it in other EU countries. I saw online complaints about the company operating in Ireland.

http://forum.virtualtourist.com/discussion-180317-1-1-Miscellaneous-0-143308--discussion.html


The Spanish telecoms regulator or the US authorities would be the next stop but I don't need the hassle.

Visa/BOI were no help.

The advertisement in the airport did not say how much the calls were charged at. infonaa.com say the rates are available. How fraudulent this is is up for debate. Personally I think if the price is not clear in advance it's dody as hell.

Live and learn I guess.