What Quality of Network do we think Eircom show have?

probe

In management parlance the term replace by <.cg snip> means a person who is often held to be mean or disagreeable but gets the job done and I see nothing wrong with it appearing in this thread uncensored.

probe

bk

History of DSL in Ireland:

1) Eircom introduce slow, expensive BB.
2) Smart and Magnet introduce innovative new ADSL2+ products using LLU.
3) Eircom makes life hell for Smart/Magnet, dragging their heels on every element of LLU.
4) Comreg rolls over and lets Eircom scratch their stomach and does nothing to solve the problems with LLU.
5) Smart starts to go out of business.
6) Eircom continues with their slow, expensive BB and happily increases line rental costs.

The only really difference between Ireland and France, is that we have a completely ineffective regulator.

Frankly Comreg should be dumped and the Department of Communications put in charge of regulation and have LLU sorted ASAP, then we can all enjoy the same services as they have in France.

However at the same time I do believe that the government should fund a project to deliver 100% 256/512k BB to everyone via DSL/Cable/Wireless. Even if LLU was sorted in the morning, it would only end up benefiting those who live in urban centres like Dublin and Cork.

Sponge Bob

bk and I agrees totally.

the only two things I would add are.

1. A friend got Smart installed on friday, there was STILL no number portability one moth after the useless Comreg said there was. Abolish them and replace with Daffy Duck if necessary because Daffy would do a better job than Comreg (

2. The government should tender out on a universal basis by geographic area, say by DED or a cluster of 5 DEDs.

a) depending on whether this is a rural or urban DED (let the government decide what is defined as which for the purposes of the scheme) the tender is for

i) Universal 256k access or
ii) Universal 512k access.

and

iii) a consortium of 2 isps (such as 1 wireless and 1 wired) may apply for each tendered 'unit' ...be it 1 or 5 DEDs

b) The tenders wil be issued and reissued and reissued every 3 months until all are being done

c) The first 2 tranches (the first 6 months of the scheme) will NOT include any of the Urban/512k designated DEDs .

In esence its GBS but with Universality built in.

Hop to it Dempsey you prevaricator !

probe

bk wrote:

The only really difference between Ireland and France, is that we have a completely ineffective regulator.

While in principle I would agree with the sentiments expressed about the relative competence of the Irish and French regulators, the situation is more complicated in my view.

Sure Comreg is doing a poor job at the moment (and far be it from me to make excuses for them) but one has to recognise that they are hemmed in by the legal framework within which they are permitted to operate. One has to look higher up to identify where some of the problems lie!

In France, the top students aspiring to senior civil service positions and key jobs in industry do not go to university – they attend the one of the Grandes Écoles Scientifiques, (after 2 years attending one of the 50 Lycées to prepare for the entrance exam)! Of the 10,000 who take the entrance exam each year for these institutions only about 400 get in to the system.

They are exposed to the best lecturers in Europe for teaching and research and a tradition going back to 1794. In addition to filling top posts in the French civil service, many alumni end up being government ministers or have been behind the setting up of key projects/industries including Airbus, Ariane (French Space Agency), the French civil nuclear energy programme and the TGV project.

In other words people are properly trained for their job at every level. This shows up in everyday life experiences where the attention to detail and planning is very evident.

The first time I took an apartment I went along with my RIB and other pieces of essential bureaucracy and the “conseiller” for the telco went through in laborious detail all the paperwork (mainly on screen) – the apartment number, postcode, what floor it was on, the PIN to get past the security system at the gate, which building, which elevator numbers stopped at the apartment etc etc. Nothing left to chance. At the end she asked me if 08h30 tomorrow would be convenient for the agent to call do the installation work. The door bell rang at 08h29:45 – 15 secs early, and the guy was finished and gone by 9.

I had a similar experience the day broadband became available – I went over to sign up and grab the modem. As I was about to depart, I asked when would the service be working? In 30 minutes was the response. And it was.

Regrettably this level of attention to detail and management professionalism is missing in many Irish companies. France is not perfect and can be very bureaucratic, but the system works as it says on the can. Unfortunately Ireland is getting very bureaucratic too but showing few benefits from the trend!

probe

Sponge Bob

dsl is not exactly uibquitous in la France profonde despite that alleged attention to detail and the types who run the regulators there are ENA type from a different Grand École entirely (like the ENA) and a more cosseted arrogant bunch of ****s I never came across .

Our lot of regulators are stupid but educated on the cheap to be stupid.

probe

Sponge Bob wrote:

dsl is not exactly uibquitous in la France profonde

France’s Minitel (the 1970s French phone book online which incorporated lots of other online services) was the precursor to the WWW. Tim Berners-Lee who was working at CERN (based along the Swiss-French frontier) could see the benefits of Minitel and had access to the internet at CERN (which back then only had limited functionality (eg FTP type services) and he put the concepts two together giving us the internet of today. Which could probably be traced back in turn to an alumni of the aforementioned G. Ecoles who was running the then French PTT who was looking for a solution to make people use their phonelines more for data traffic and save staff costs associated with providing a directory information service over the phone.

France doesn’t have the advantages of a wet or snowy climate to keep a large part of its population sitting in front of computer screens because they have nothing better to do. Le soleil et (the cultural emphasis on) la joie de vivre are major distractions. Having said that France doesn’t rank poorly in broadband availability compared with its neighbours –

Total BB connections end Q1/06, penetration %:

France 10,819,310 18,1%
Big Germany 11,666,202 14,1%
Joie de vivre-less GB 11,269,348 18,9
Joie de vivre full Italia 7,381,612 12,8%

And French BB is a lot cheaper and a lot faster than that available anywhere else in Europe, and the customer service is great because competition works better in France than anywhere else in Europe in most industries.

probe

Sponge Bob

probe wrote:

France’s Minitel (the 1970s French phone book online which incorporated lots of other online services) was the precursor to the WWW.

d 'accord but this was not built on in France who led nothing 1988-1998. It never realy became interactive , was text based and max at 9.6k

and the customer service is great because competition works better in France than anywhere else in Europe in most industries.

:eek: you surely cannot be serious :eek:

I'm outta this thread

probe

Sponge Bob wrote:

:eek: you surely cannot be serious :eek:

I'm outta this thread

Au revoir. One last comparison before you hit the sack!

Compare Virgin Trains in GB where everything is "privatized" with SNCF which has a <.cg snip> state controlled monopoly run by your arrogant pompous Grande Ecoliers friends:

London > Manchester 1st class one way
320 km journey fare GBP 155.50 which is €229 in real money

Nice > Montpellier 1st class one way
327 km journey fare €70.70

Check out the beige leather electric reclining seats a la Mercedes Benz S500, not to mention the civilised bike racks on the Nice Montpellier train at
http://www.corailteoz.com/
"click on Visite de Corail Teoz" and click on the images for a close-up Apple Quicktime view on the various pictures. That’s how public transport should be. Everywhere.

The last time I was on a Virgin train on this route, it was a re-conditioned ex British rail train. There was no place to put one's PC or newspaper because the table in front of one was laden with badly manufactured crockery (that couldn't sit still with the vibrations caused by the neglected rails on which it was running) presumably in the hope that they might sell you a meal at the table. C'est la difference. The Anglo-Saxon world (of which Ireland is increasingly aligning) is solely focused on making a quick buck. France is focused on quality of life and competition in business and a customer oriented attitude in state enterprises are a big component in the delivery of value for money high quality services. As I said earlier France isn't perfect - nor is anywhere else. And the country is not short of labour strikes (euphemistically known as "actions sociale"). The French telecoms industry gives a far better deal to its customers (from government level to service provider) than anywhere else in Europe.


Sorry if I am pissing you off, because I know your heart is in the right place and you are doing more than your share to point out the deficiencies and mess in the Irish system (among other things), and I hope you keep up the good work!

Bon nuit et je vous souhaite une excellent soirée.


probe

cgarvey

probe wrote:

In management parlance the term replace by <.cg snip> means a person who is often held to be mean or disagreeable but gets the job done and I see nothing wrong with it appearing in this thread uncensored.

probe

It's an offensive word, by definition. Referring to a person, or a group of people in that context, too, is offensive. You don't have to agree, I'm just asking you to stop.

cgarvey

Sponge Bob wrote:

dsl is not exactly uibquitous in la France profonde despite that alleged attention to detail and the types who run the regulators there are ENA type from a different Grand École entirely (like the ENA) and a more cosseted arrogant bunch of ****s I never came across .

Our lot of regulators are stupid but educated on the cheap to be stupid.

If you can't make a point without calling everybody names, then don't make it at all:
1. It makes you look weaker
2. It makes IoffL appear to be petty
3. It is against the charter.

Please refrain from insulting people, especially blanketly like that.

damien

probe wrote:

Sure Comreg is doing a poor job at the moment (and far be it from me to make excuses for them) but one has to recognise that they are hemmed in by the legal framework within which they are permitted to operate. One has to look higher up to identify where some of the problems lie!

Bollox. Hemmed in, my ass. When they awarded and then took back the Smart £G licence after eircom ordered it, was this a legal hemming in?

When they lied to the EU about LLU was that a legal hemming in?

When Isolde Goggin told the Oireachtas line failure in Ireland was the same as Northern Ireland, was that lie due to some legal reason?

When they gave eircom a national wireless broadband licence and then didn't enforce it, was that a legal hemming in?

When the invented the dumb wireless exclusion zones, was that for some legal hemming in?

When they LIE AND LIE AND LIE in their quarterly reports, is it because of some legal issue?

They may not have the best powers in the world buy why give them more when the ones they have never got used? Afterall they admitted to the Oireachtas they never used them and they have yet to fine a telco for acting the gom.

Why increase the budget of a Department when they don't use the one they're given?

ComReg are one major reason forthe multiple telecoms issues in this country and are a convenient shield for the DCMNR who are losing staff left right and centre and falling apart at the seams.

Foxwood

cgarvey wrote:

It's an offensive word, by definition. Referring to a person, or a group of people in that context, too, is offensive. You don't have to agree, I'm just asking you to stop.

You obviously don't spend much time with tech-heads. Being considerd a BOFH is something of an honour!

cgarvey

probe wrote:

Compare Virgin Trains in GB where everything is "privatized" with SNCF which has a <.cg snip> state controlled monopoly run by your arrogant pompous Grande Ecoliers friends:

I see your points, especially about the specifically trained people. Whether the phone network is privatised here or not, I still think we'd have a crap network. Privatised: it'll be at the mercy of a completely ineffective regulator, and shareholders come first. State owned: it'll be plagued by the "County Council worker syndrome". It's a catch 22, the way I see it.

Sponge Bob

cgarvey wrote:

I see your points, especially about the specifically trained people.

You never met this GÉ subspecies I can tell . They may, however, have been a good idea in 1794 for all I know ! They are civil servants guaranteed a well paid job for life in fast track promotion at 25. They also produce a political caste which has been essentially fossilised and out of touch since De Gaulle died.

The ODTR was the first industry regulator in Ireland and provided the basic template for the total failure of any form of citizen or societal focused regulation in this country. It has also failed on market regulation or diversity.

Its energy regulating sibling set a Gas price c.84% higher than the UK yesterday and gives not two ****s about that either . These regulator things we create in Ireland are utterly unaccountable and useless. They can lie and procrastinate with impunity .We should stop pretending they are any use , abolish the lot of them , and start again from scratch with a citizen centered template before they ruin the country although I fear its too late.

As for France, all probes examples of what is good are STATE MONOPOLIES and not subject to competition...eg the excellent SNCF or the unmentioned EDF .

bk

Sponge Bob wrote:

Its energy regulating sibling set a Gas price c.84% higher than the UK yesterday and gives not two ****s about that either . These regulator things we create in Ireland are utterly unaccountable and useless. They can lie and procrastinate with impunity .We should stop pretending they are any use , abolish the lot of them , and start again from scratch with a citizen centered template before they ruin the country although I fear its too late.

From what I have seen all the regulators are is a shield to protect the government departments and their ministers from making unpopular and bad decisions.

If the departments were responsible for the regulation, then they would come under democratic pressure to do the right thing for the customer/voter. But by having the regulator they can throw up their hands and say, it isn't our fault, it is the independent regulators fault.

It is a superb act of misdirection. In fact from a political point of view, it is masterful.

cgarvey

Sponge Bob wrote:

You never met this GÉ subspecies I can tell

Correct

Sponge Bob wrote:

The ODTR was the first industry regulator in Ireland and provided the basic template for the total failure of any form of citizen or societal focused regulation in this country. It has also failed on market regulation or diversity.

Agreed, but I think Probe's point has something to do with this. It's failed because it employed a lot of people who were too involved in, and attached to, the industry they were meant to regulate. What it needed was specifically educated people, with some level of industry expertise. Working in Telecom Eireann for your working life doesn't cut it for me.

I agree it's time to abolish them, but replace them with what? FF have a long tradition of jobs for boys, and all the non-FF supporters will make a big deal out of that, yet all governments have been the same. So we've to break 2 well established lines of thinking, before we get effective regulation. 1 is the jobs-for-boys has to go, as anything else is not independent. The 2nd is BK's point about the political master stroke idea of using the regulator as a shield. We need to break the public acceptance that we have independent regulators (rather than the inefficient, poorly staffed/powered regulators that they are). I can't see how that's going to happen.

Sponge Bob wrote:

As for France, all probes examples of what is good are STATE MONOPOLIES and not subject to competition...eg the excellent SNCF or the unmentioned EDF .

Right, but is that a bad thing? I mean if it's a state monopoly that is reliable, value for money and well run, do you think that the general public care? In France they some well run state bodies. We don't have any. In England they have failed privitisations, so too do we. So we need either to change the mindset of public/civil service jobs (that they are guaranteed, and that you don't have to work hard), or change the regulation and perception of independence in regulation. Neither is a small task.

bealtine

[QUOTE=Sponge Bob

The ODTR was the first industry regulator in Ireland and provided the basic template for the total failure of any form of citizen or societal focused regulation in this country. It has also failed on market regulation or diversity.

Its energy regulating sibling set a Gas price c.84% higher than the UK yesterday and gives not two ****s about that either . These regulator things we create in Ireland are utterly unaccountable and useless. They can lie and procrastinate with impunity .We should stop pretending they are any use , abolish the lot of them , and start again from scratch with a citizen centered template before they ruin the country although I fear its too late.
.[/QUOTE]

Well I have said this before and will say it again
Regulators in Ireland are there to regulate *for* the industry, to ensure the regulees are profitable, nothing more.
This attitude can clearly be seen in the way Comreg or the CER behave.

They have some nonsense in their charters about consumers but these onerous sections are utterly ignored and swept under the carpet.

If you think the regulator is there to protect you, the consumer, then you are sadly mistaken.

Sponge Bob

cgarvey wrote:

Correct


Agreed, but I think Probe's point has something to do with this. It's failed because it employed a lot of people who were too involved in, and attached to, the industry they were meant to regulate. What it needed was specifically educated people, with some level of industry expertise. Working in Telecom Eireann for your working life doesn't cut it for me.

Ehhhm not quite. It acquired a load of DCMNR people from the start and there was 'continuity' of regulation from the DCMNR days.

It was set up in order that eircom could be sold, not because there was any vision of what a regulator could and should be ....despite there being one next door for years before that.

In the absence of any clarity of thought at the legislative and constitutional levels we got the mess we deserved. By 2001 this regulator was tied up in knots by eircom and failed. No matter what legislative sticky tape you apply to its suppurating sores it is and always will be a failure with an ingrained culture of failure and of public deceit and disingenousness to hide that failure as Damien pointed out.

You could pick three of the finest techncratic brains in France, make them commissioners in the morning in place of the 3 stooges and be sure they will have gone native within a year .

I agree it's time to abolish them, but replace them with what?

a constitutional charter for all regulators for starters, a PRIME directive .

from that flows the legislative framework, intertwined with EU law.

FF have a long tradition of jobs for boys, and all the non-FF supporters will make a big deal out of that, yet all governments have been the same.

They all do except that other parties seem to have a slightly wider gene pool.

So we've to break 2 well established lines of thinking, before we get effective regulation. 1 is the jobs-for-boys has to go, as anything else is not independent. The 2nd is BK's point about the political master stroke idea of using the regulator as a shield. We need to break the public acceptance that we have independent regulators (rather than the inefficient, poorly staffed/powered regulators that they are). I can't see how that's going to happen.

King Henry the 8th called it "Surrender and Regrant"

Create the constitutional framework for this 4th pillar of administration (in addition to dail/executive and civil service/judiciary) . A regulator is none of the above and is unprovided for in basic law. This means all regulators.

Then abolish them all and start to reassemble them within that framework.

Right, but is that a bad thing? I mean if it's a state monopoly that is reliable, value for money and well run, do you think that the general public care? In France they some well run state bodies.

I am bored with France and more bored with VDSL and MSANs . A state monopoly is ALWAYS better than a private monopoly and thats that, no matter where.

We don't have any.

VHI ??

In England they have failed privitisations, so too do we. So we need either to change the mindset of public/civil service jobs (that they are guaranteed, and that you don't have to work hard), or change the regulation and perception of independence in regulation. Neither is a small task.

Forget England as a template .....save for telecommunications regulation. They have no constitution anyway .....not in a real sense...and can legislate themselves out of any impasse

We can not.

cgarvey

Is ComReg not staffed by a lot of ex-eircom/TE employees? Your point about the cronies being brought in from DCMNR reinforces my point, not negates it. Bealtine sums it up nicely, they are not interested in consumers, at all. Me; I think that's because they are not independant but cloesly coupled with the vote-seeking department that controls them.

VHI is not well run, in my experience. We have to compare ourselves to france and england and other countries, we can't just pick and choose who we compare ourselves to. Those 2 were just 2 examples. England, in fact, is probably the best to choose from!

You'd want a lot of balls and public support to go about constitutional change for that framework. I don't see either happening until the situtation degrades a whole lot more. We can live the dream, but the general public (and rightly so) are more concerned about pensions, education and health.

There is nothing wrong with the legislative framework for now anyway. Regulators can improve alot more by bringing in some expertise, and using existing powers (fines anyone?). That could certainly be achieved while we wait for the constitutional changes you want

probe

Sponge Bob wrote:

the unmentioned EDF .

EdF do a good job and are no longer a 100% monopoly. 90% of their electricity is carbon free. And they keep much of the rest of Europe supplied with electricity on cold winter nights.

I've had one electricity disconnection in over five years. It was notified in advance in writing about a week before the event. From memory it read something like from 09h30:00 to 09h30:30 you will have no electricity supply next Wednesday (ie a break of about 30 seconds in supply).

EdF charge 10,74c per kW inc VAT to householders on the basic tariff - which is a bargain compared with the ESB which is now around 15c and rising when you add VAT in. British electricity tariffs are also about 30+% higher than France. If it ain't broke....

probe

probe

damien.m wrote:

Bollox. Hemmed in, my ass. When they awarded and then took back the Smart £G licence after eircom ordered it, was this a legal hemming in?

When they lied to the EU about LLU was that a legal hemming in?

When Isolde Goggin told the Oireachtas line failure in Ireland was the same as Northern Ireland, was that lie due to some legal reason?

When they gave eircom a national wireless broadband licence and then didn't enforce it, was that a legal hemming in?

When the invented the dumb wireless exclusion zones, was that for some legal hemming in?

When they LIE AND LIE AND LIE in their quarterly reports, is it because of some legal issue?

They may not have the best powers in the world buy why give them more when the ones they have never got used? Afterall they admitted to the Oireachtas they never used them and they have yet to fine a telco for acting the gom.

Why increase the budget of a Department when they don't use the one they're given?

ComReg are one major reason forthe multiple telecoms issues in this country and are a convenient shield for the DCMNR who are losing staff left right and centre and falling apart at the seams.

I did prefix my remark with "Sure Comreg is doing a poor job at the moment (and far be it from me to make excuses for them)"! All I was attempting to do was to highlight the big picture issues - including, but not limited to the environment within which ComReg finds itself - e.g. its limited power to fine eircom and certain legal matters which I would rather not discuss here in case I put ideas into to eircom's corporate mind which might end up disadvantaging our cause!

The gross mis-handling of Smart's UMTS license is without doubt one of their most serious sins and demonstrates an inability to come up with a simple document with a minimum of onerous conditions that would enable the licensee to bring fresh competition into what is one of the sickest and most over-priced mobile markets in Europe. The about turn on the license has also prejudiced the financial position of Smart’s other activities – one of the few LLU merchants in the Irish market. I hope they are held to account financially to anyone who suffers as a result of this gross incompetence.
probe

probe

I just did a quick check to see where M Pierre Danon, the new chairman of eircom went to school.

HEC Grande [FONT=&quot]É[/FONT]cole de Commerce !

www.hec.fr

Ranking: http://www.hec.fr/hec/fr/groupe/documents/FT_European_Masters_Table2006.pdf


probe

probe

I know Sponge Bob has banned the MSAN word - however even Rupert's son can see the threat to their Sky TV operation in GB. Direct satellite to the consumer can't compete, and he knows it!

http://www.theregister.com/2006/09/15/murdoch_bt_bskyb/

probe

bk

probe wrote:

I know Sponge Bob has banned the MSAN word - however even Rupert's son can see the threat to their Sky TV operation in GB. Direct satellite to the consumer can't compete, and he knows it!

http://www.theregister.com/2006/09/15/murdoch_bt_bskyb/

probe

To be honest however, DTT is proving a much greater threat to Sky then IPTV. Freeview in a very short time has surpassed cable and it is expected to surpass Sky in the next few months.

Now you have BT coming with a converged Freeview/PVR/VOD box and this will likely be very popular and Sky is in major trouble.

Sky is also under major threat from the BBC's/ITV's upcoming FTA satellite platform.

It looks like the era of basic pay tv is coming to an end in the UK. It also looks like others will soon be eating into Sky's par for movie business and that will basically only leave Sky with it's grip on sports.

probe

bk wrote:

To be honest however, DTT is proving a much greater threat to Sky then IPTV. Freeview in a very short time has surpassed cable and it is expected to surpass Sky in the next few months.

Now you have BT coming with a converged Freeview/PVR/VOD box and this will likely be very popular and Sky is in major trouble.

Sky is also under major threat from the BBC's/ITV's upcoming FTA satellite platform.

It looks like the era of basic pay tv is coming to an end in the UK. It also looks like others will soon be eating into Sky's par for movie business and that will basically only leave Sky with it's grip on sports.

DTT’s great. I’ve got French and Spanish DTT in a mountain cabin and before the Spanish DTT got going, they were squirting “test” wildlife programmes at a “full bitrate” at my flat screen TV giving better than DVD quality. DTT has enormous potential when it is used to deliver a relatively small number of channels at high bitrates (say under 10 until analog is switched off). You don’t want to watch anything else! Even the picture quality on an old CRT TV fed from a €50 DTT receiver box totally wakes up a 10 year old TV set in the bedroom.

In the bad old days before DTT, the analog French and Spanish TV coverage in the same area was of similar quality to RTE TV in many parts of Ireland, forcing one to use tps.fr or canalsatellite.fr to receive decent quality sound and picture.

It is appalling that Ireland is wasting money on installing a new DTT system which seems to be using a decade old (ie non MPEG4) technology and they have no plans for 1080p HD programming. RTE’s archives of TV programme material for 2006 will look like Charlie Chaplin stuff in years to come, because they have done nothing to modernise their programme making infrastructure to HD as is happening everywhere else.

probe

bk

probe wrote:

It is appalling that Ireland is wasting money on installing a new DTT system which seems to be using a decade old (ie non MPEG4) technology and they have no plans for 1080p HD programming. RTE’s archives of TV programme material for 2006 will look like Charlie Chaplin stuff in years to come, because they have done nothing to modernise their programme making infrastructure to HD as is happening everywhere else.

They are currently testing with standard MPEG2 gear, but they are expected to also test MPEG4 gear.

The problem with us using MPEG4 gear is that:
1) The decoder boxes for it are still relatively expensive.
2) The UK isn't using it.

Point 2 is particularly important, because we are so close to the UK and it is a much bigger market, it is very easy for Irish people to get cheap Freeview boxes. Also there are lots of specialised boxes like PVR's and even many people in Ireland have bought TV's with Freeview in them.

The problem is if they go their own way and go MPEG4, then we will likely be the only country in Europe, which means the boxes will be much more expensive and their will be much less variety.

It is a though decision and I can see the opinions of both sides.

BTW About 1080p HD, no county in the world is currently broadcasting 1080p on any platform, it simply requires too much bandwidth. Currently it is only 1080i or 720p. Also there is nothing stopping the content owners trying HD on DTT.

probe

bk wrote:

They are currently testing with standard MPEG2 gear, but they are expected to also test MPEG4 gear.

>>The problem with us using MPEG4 gear is that:
1) The decoder boxes for it are still relatively expensive.
2) The UK isn't using it.

Surely irrelevant? By the time RTE get around to implementing MPEG4, the 4 STBs will be the same price as MPEG2. If you don’t use MPEG4, there won’t be enough bandwidth for 1080 or HD anything similar.

Short-termists could have a free choice. Go and buy junk cheapo “freeview” British boxes and watch British TV only. Or continue to use your existing analog/cable or other arrangements for the moment. Or buy MPEG4 boxes for what will be a similar price in the not too distant future and get RTE etc and everything else within reach.

MPEG4 will be universal across the continent because there is no choice in frontier areas when it comes to HD and delivering the basic national channel package. Ireland is no different. Why waste money with a short term solution that people will have to replace within a few years?

Further to your Murdoch posting:

While DTT’s forté is upgrading and modernising the basic package of national analog free to air TV channels – giving them the sticky leverage of HDTV, a clear picture and excellent sound quality nationwide, Sky’s market is cheapo downmarket pay TV (aside from the free sky “news” which they spew free to air on virtually every satellite on the planet for some reason I can’t comprehend). Perhaps it is something to do with a “just in time” political manipulation strategy, particularly coming up to elections? In order to promote their corporate objectives? Who knows? I really find it difficult to understand why they spend so much money squirting this free to air “news” all over the place otherwise.

High speed broadband (20+ Mbits/sec) on the other hand offers a “what you want it what you get service” delivery capability, assuming the service node feeding your premises is kitted out properly. Thousands of movies. Hundreds of TV channels. And the ADSL2+ or VDSL2 link between your home and the service provision node can deliver a picture up to and including BlueRay/HD-DVD quality. All we are waiting for is people like SpongeBob to get their next generation multi-media DSL network into gear* and the ComReg lot and their bosses to wake up, smell the coffee and do their job properly.

probe


*The MSAN word has been demoted to the notes!

Sponge Bob

Lads , can we get back to the state of the eircom network and 256k by 2010 , please.

RangeR

Sponge Bob wrote:

Lads , can we get back to the state of the eircom network and 256k by 2010 , please.

Agreed. No offense intended Probe but I'm getting a little tired of hearing how great the French are. I'd rather concentrate on the Irish issue.

SkepticOne

Altreab wrote:

Would this be a suitable Eircom network to deliver true highspeed BB for all?

1) All exchanges and Remote Subscriber Units (RSU)to be connected by lit fibre at OC192 speeds (OC-192 = 9.952 Gbps) or faster.

2) ALL Exchanges and RSUs to be ADSL2 enabled.

3) ZERO carrier lines.

4) Minimun Connection Speed to be 16 Megs

5) Max time for application to installation of home line to be 5 working days

That for starters anymore suggestions?

Why would Eircom bother with this level of infrastructure? Competition in Ireland has not developed to the extent that they would need it.

If, for example, you are on a carrier line, then chances are you have no choice but to continue paying Eircom line rental and dial-up charges since alternative services are still relatively relatively rare (in rural areas especially). Since you have no choice but to continue paying Eircom, Eircom have little incentive to bother doing anything about it. What possible commercial reason could Eircom have for installing brand new infrastructure capable of 16Mb/s minimum (copper telephone lines will only achieve this relatively near the exchange), when they can make much the same money doing nothing?

This situation will change as competition becomes more widespread. By competition I don't mean bitstream reselling (UTV, BT etc.) or partial competition through LLU (Smart, Magnet) but full competition. It is because full competition is relatively rare in Ireland and the legacy telephone infrastructure is unsuitable for broadband in many areas, we have the current situation.

Although this situation is gradually changing, there are two dangers we need to be aware of. Firstly there is the temptation to regard partial or pseudo-competition as actual competition. A bitstream reseller such as UTV is fully dependent on Eircom to a) upgrade the exchange, b) provide a decent copper infrastructure and c) provide a reliable bitstream service, yet UTV don't put any competitive pressure on Eircom to do any of these things. If Eircom fail to deliver, it is UTV's customers that suffer.

Similarly with LLU. Companies such as Smart offering LLU are fully dependent on Eircom providing good infrastructure over which Smart must offer their service. They are dependent on Eircom to switch lines over to Smart's equipment in a timely and efficient manner. Again, if Eircom drag their feet, it is Smart's customers that suffer and Smart that suffers as a company.

So neither reselling nor LLU provide the level of competition required in Ireland.

The second danger is that people start looking to the regulator to start regulating Eircom as a monopoly and thereby do away with the need for competition altogether. I think we can all agree that this would be an absolute disaster. A regulator that does not see the need for universal internet access at above 28.8k or that there should be some upper price limit for getting a basic voice line is not one that should be telling us what sort of speeds we should be getting and what sort of prices we should be paying for broadband. This is the same regulator that approved Eircom's 512k DSL at 110 euros when equivalent services were available at 40 euros and less in other countries.