Windows Vista Release Candidate 1 - Build5600

Capt'n Midnight

Pity they couldn's just release the difference too, so you could slipstream your install folder.

Peteee

Does anyone know the differences between this and the 5600 build?

radiospan

Someone on another board said it was much faster than 5600 (almost faster than XP)

stereo_steve

[spam] Does anyone in the dundrum/ballinteer area have a copy? For the broadband challenged!!!! Will provide DVD!


Would love to give it ago. 64bit version prefered but not important! [/spam]

radiospan

There's a warning on the 5728 download site that says:

Please note: This build may not have the same level of support or servicing via Windows Update, and you may not be able to upgrade to the final version of Windows Vista.

That warning isn't there on the 5600 download page.

Matt Simis

Just got 5728 64bit installed, my 3rd Vista install. After about 2hrs of setting up, namely disabling all the brain dead "user protection" prompts and driver lock outs, I have a bunch of XP64 drivers installed and everything but the XFI working (its working in 2speaker mode only till RC1 compliant drivers are out).

After getting to this point it is really, really nice I have to say. However, I can see a lot of techies getting very fed up and not using this for long, long time.

One really stupid bug.. Readyboost allows you to use flash devices to boost speed, it scans your flash device and determine if its fast enough and large enough. Problem with the current implementation is that it doesnt rescan a drive letter (nor can I find a way to force it). This is a problem as I have a memory card reader, Memory Sticks appear as Drive F, I tried a 32MB card first, it was too small (min is 256MB). Swapped it out for a 2GB card and Vista Readyboost tells me (to the effect of) "Your device is too small - 30MB free".
Sigh..

Experience Speed Ratings:

Base score 5.4
Processor 5.4
Memory 5.5
Graphics 5.9
Gaming graphics 5.9
Primary hard disk 5.9

Nice to see the HDD (RAID0 SCSI) maxing out the test, but surprised an Athlon X2 at 3003Mhz (real MHz, not rating) only gets 5.4.


Matt


EDIT: Just discovered the new (to me) Resource Monitor - wow thats slick!

Capt'n Midnight

plazzTT wrote:

There's a warning on the 5728 download site that says:
Please note: This build may not have the same level of support or servicing via Windows Update, and you may not be able to upgrade to the final version of Windows Vista.
That warning isn't there on the 5600 download page.

That's the standard warning if you look deep enough for almost all microsoft beta products, with different words but the same practical effect going back to at least 1994 and the Windows 95 beta. So it's not any different from the last 12 years - if you stick beta on your machine be prepared for a reinstall. and TBH like many out there I consider any major microsoft OS release to be BETA and not production quality until after the first major service pack.

Peteee

Matt Simis wrote:

However, I can see a lot of techies getting very fed up and not using this for long, long time.

Why exactly?

One really stupid bug.. Readyboost allows you to use flash devices to boost speed, it scans your flash device and determine if its fast enough and large enough. Problem with the current implementation is that it doesnt rescan a drive letter (nor can I find a way to force it). This is a problem as I have a memory card reader, Memory Sticks appear as Drive F, I tried a 32MB card first, it was too small (min is 256MB). Swapped it out for a 2GB card and Vista Readyboost tells me (to the effect of) "Your device is too small - 30MB free".
Sigh..

File a bug report then. It's easy. Given that they changed the boot sound to optional, its obvious that MS listen to feedback (Sometimes at least!)

Peteee

Peteee wrote:

Why exactly?

Because the interface is so childish.

mathew

Hi
I tried downloaded and burned the iso for the 5600 build version. I downloaded the 32-bit one because im pretty sure i have a 32-bit processor. The initial loading of the install works fine, but as soon as a GUI comes up with a mouse and background i get an error from setup.exe saying "The exception unknown software exception (0xe0000100) occured in the application at location 0x75a0dde0."

Any any idea what i should do to get it to work.

Thanks

kaizersoze

mathew wrote:

Hi
I tried downloaded and burned the iso for the 5600 build version. I downloaded the 32-bit one because im pretty sure i have a 32-bit processor. The initial loading of the install works fine, but as soon as a GUI comes up with a mouse and background i get an error from setup.exe saying "The exception unknown software exception (0xe0000100) occured in the application at location 0x75a0dde0."

Any any idea what i should do to get it to work.

Thanks

Are you doing an upgrade or a clean install?

Matt Simis

Karsini wrote:

Because the interface is so childish.

Well I like the GUI itself, but the problem is the barrage of prompts it forces the user to click through to get anything done (Allow Program, Allow Driver, Unsigned program, Unsigned Website, Unencrypted Site, Run As Administrator, Private Network vs Public Network options etc etc). Its the answer to the "running as admin/root is bad" mentality but instead of adding a layer of security, it adds a layer of tedium between the user and OS.

All of this junk can be turned off of course (and turning some of them off is filled with scare mongering and other prompts reminding you have turned them off) if you can find the options, but I know a lot of people who will spend 5min clicking prompts and say "f**k this".

Its going to get slated in the (somewhat) technical press, I would be willing to bet on it.


Matt

mathew

kaizersoze wrote:

Are you doing an upgrade or a clean install?

Doing a clean install. It my first time installing Vista

Matt Simis

Peteee wrote:

File a bug report then. It's easy. Given that they changed the boot sound to optional, its obvious that MS listen to feedback (Sometimes at least!)

I would, but I cant find the Bug Reporting tool that used to be on the desktop and the Help only brings me the Problem report feature (which doesnt allow manual input).


Matt

BKtje

Just installed the 64bit version. It went fairly smoothly tho my mobo seemed to have a bit of a fit after one of the reboots. Had to fiddle some.
Im assuming that this was a coincidence, although rather a large one.

It looks very pretty and i quite like it thus far (only been looking around it for an hour or so). One thing i have noticed is that my dvd drive has disappeared.
The Bios sees it and i can boot from it but vista itself doesnt see it.

Xp64 did see it before it broke during the vista install (diff partition).

Anyone come accross this missing dvd drive issue? Ill google for an answer but failing that ill submit a bug report thingy i guess.

Stephen

Have they released a changelog of what's different between 5600 and 5728?

BKtje

anyone managed to get a audigy 2 zs working under 64 bit vista?
Got stereo working but cant get 5.1 working at all (evenw ith various work arounds ive read up on).

Dvd drive i got working however
Havent read anything about the new release, if i find the changelog ill post it up.

Stephen

Stephen wrote:

Have they released a changelog of what's different between 5600 and 5728?

few feature changes, such as the ability to shut off the Windows Startup Sound, new wallpapers and a new boot animation. you can only download the 32-bit version for now, i think you would be better holding on for the release of 5732.

Peteee

Karsini wrote:

Because the interface is so childish.

Turn it back to Classic mode then. Its what a lot of techies do with Luna in XP aswell.

Frankly I think the new interface is really nice. I think glass looks fantastic. Aside from the inconsistencies, I think they done good.

Peteee

Matt Simis wrote:

All of this junk can be turned off of course (and turning some of them off is filled with scare mongering and other prompts reminding you have turned them off) if you can find the options, but I know a lot of people who will spend 5min clicking prompts and say "f**k this".

Funny how no-one slates it in *nix/Mac OSX

While I think it is a bit over bearing, The average person using XP is riddled with Virii and Spyware, I think this can only be a good thing.

Peteee

Peteee wrote:

Turn it back to Classic mode then. Its what a lot of techies do with Luna in XP aswell.

Frankly I think the new interface is really nice. I think glass looks fantastic. Aside from the inconsistencies, I think they done good.

I don't really mind Luna, actually use it myself, it's basically the same thing as the classic Windows interface except more colourful. I just can't get over the scattering of buttons in Vista, it takes more work to do the same task. For example, checking the wireless LAN status takes four clicks in Vista compared to one in XP.

I think the MacOS X approach to the admin prompt is more useful. Entering your password rather than pressing a Continue button makes more sense.

Stephen

I installed it (build 5600) on my laptop last night. Until then it had been dual booting XP SP2 and Suse Linux 10. I wiped the whole lot and stuck Vista on. The only problem I had was display drivers, due to nvidia's stupid policy of deliberately removing support for mobile gpu's from their driver packages, so I had to hunt around on google to find some appropriate drivers. Once I got them installed it worked fine. All my other hardware, including onboard sound and wlan, was supported from installation.

I installed Steam and Team Fortress Classic (old, I know) to see how it worked. It ran fine, although I did have to change the permissions on my Steam installation folder for it to work. TFC is an OpenGL game, which worked fine. I had heard all sorts of horror stories about MS removing OpenGL from Vista. Guess not.

Its running pretty sweet now.

Laptop is an Intel Centrino 1.73ghz with 1GB of DDR2-533 RAM, 100gig IDE disk and nvidia 6600go PCI-E graphics chipset. (its the Aldi one from March 2005)

BKtje

quick question about my sata hdd's.
My "spare" none raided raptor keeps powering off (possibly my ide one too) after like 20mins. Ive looked for the dont turn off hdd option but cant seem to find it (i assume its a power saving option thats auto on in vista and not a bug.. ).

While not a big thing it does mean i gotta wait a cpl secs when i want to access these drives after not having used them for a while.

kaizersoze

B-K-DzR wrote:

quick question about my sata hdd's.
My "spare" none raided raptor keeps powering off (possibly my ide one too) after like 20mins. Ive looked for the dont turn off hdd option but cant seem to find it (i assume its a power saving option thats auto on in vista and not a bug.. ).

While not a big thing it does mean i gotta wait a cpl secs when i want to access these drives after not having used them for a while.

Yeah, noticed that aswell with my 2nd sata drive. I could hear something click and wind down and couldn't figure out what it was. Your post reminded me.
I found a setting in the power options that may be the cause.
Control panel-->System and Maintainance-->Power options. Click "change plan settings", then "change advanced power settings". Select hard drive from the list and change "turn off hard drive" setting to whatever you like (0 is Never). The default is 20 minutes.
I think thats it. I haven't left the drive idle long enough to test it.;)

BKtje

ah nice one, appreciated. Trying it now

Matt Simis

Peteee wrote:

Funny how no-one slates it in *nix/Mac OSX

While I think it is a bit over bearing, The average person using XP is riddled with Virii and Spyware, I think this can only be a good thing.

I think its funny why you would mention two niche OSes at all.. its not like I was comparing them. However I have used OSX and various nixs and their method of "signing" away the warnings with a password was much nicer than the prompt barrage.

I dont know who the "average" person is, but I have 5 XP-32bit machines here, my family have at least 4. About half of them have virus scanners, 2 have SpyBot. All have SP2. None of them have any virus' or obvious/annoying spyware. Based on this real world analysis I would say XP-SP2 is doing a pretty good job and I dont (nor would my friends and family) benefit from the Vista approach. Infact, I will likely be drafted into service to help get rid of the prompts and wizards which sadly will take longer than removing Spyware or the simplier Virus'. I imagine if its this irriating at retail out of the box, many MIS dept. with have their hands full with helpdesk calls too.

Your view echos a very detached and engineering approach to the issue, sure its "better", but better with at the cost of the user experience.. and at the end of the day interating with a computer is a very personal user experience and accomodating this should always be paramount. Simply look at Apples success and legions of fans.


Matt

installed it earlier today and noticed that it installed quicker and runs alot faster too. my system got a rating of 4.5 which isn't bad at all (wont be having to spend money on upgrades anytime soon ), just wish my BB router & Raid controller would work with it.

Peteee

Matt Simis wrote:

I think its funny why you would mention two niche OSes at all.. its not like I was comparing them. However I have used OSX and various nixs and their method of "signing" away the warnings with a password was much nicer than the prompt barrage.

If you run Vista on a limited account it asks for an admin password. I will say that I've turned off UAC because I found it irritating. You're right, its far too irritating to people who can use computers. I understand MS is refining the process all the time (Certainly its a big improvement from Beta 2)

I dont know who the "average" person is, but I have 5 XP-32bit machines here, my family have at least 4. About half of them have virus scanners, 2 have SpyBot. All have SP2. None of them have any virus' or obvious/annoying spyware. Based on this real world analysis I would say XP-SP2 is doing a pretty good job and I dont (nor would my friends and family) benefit from the Vista approach. Infact, I will likely be drafted into service to help get rid of the prompts and wizards which sadly will take longer than removing Spyware or the simplier Virus'. I imagine if its this irriating at retail out of the box, many MIS dept. with have their hands full with helpdesk calls too.

Your view echos a very detached and engineering approach to the issue, sure its "better", but better with at the cost of the user experience.. and at the end of the day interating with a computer is a very personal user experience and accomodating this should always be paramount. Simply look at Apples success and legions of fans.


Matt

Last week I fixed a laptop that had at least 7 viruses on it, and some malware (NOD32 and AdAware) were promptly installed, and Norton taken off. Everytime I meet relatives they complain that 'they cant open thier email' and 'it must be a virus' (It isn't of course, but lots of people really have no idea how to use a computer)

This was from a 'common' (A parents friends wife) person using XP (Admitidly it was SP1, and I promptly installed SP2 and Firefox, So hopefully everything will be alright).

I think Windows security is fine, but the people who use it are not. I've never gotten a virus or spyware on my machine, becasue I apply a 'little' vigilance to what I download, and what sites I go to.

People wonder why thier PC is running so slow (A lot of them just buy new ones, and within 2 months everythings the same).

It's not really about windows security, as the people who use it, There are prompts clearly stating the actions of doing something. Granted some people blindly click yes to everything they come across.

As far as usability goes, Vista is in some regards a step forward (Lots of people ask 'I saved it in word and now i cant find it' So now instead of hunting around the file system, they can just do a search for it on the start menu) and a step backwards (The aforemented Connections status taking 4 clicks instead of one)

Matt Simis

Peteee wrote:

I think Windows security is fine, but the people who use it are not. I've never gotten a virus or spyware on my machine, becasue I apply a 'little' vigilance to what I download, and what sites I go to.

Well, that is very true, perhaps my warnings against obvious trojans and viri have had some effect on my family then.

On another note, anyone find Vista churns the HDD a lot? Im running a SCSI RAID0 area, 15K RPM drives through a LSI Megaraid 320E PCIe controller, these disks make a lot of noise when in use and Vista seems to run them constantly for 20min at a time quite often. Ive defragmented and disabled drive Indexing, but its still doing it!


Matt

Peteee

Matt Simis wrote:

On another note, anyone find Vista churns the HDD a lot? Im running a SCSI RAID0 area, 15K RPM drives through a LSI Megaraid 320E PCIe controller, these disks make a lot of noise when in use and Vista seems to run them constantly for 20min at a time quite often. Ive defragmented and disabled drive Indexing, but its still doing it!


Matt

Yeah I've noticed this. Try plugging in a USB flash drive into a USB port (Funnily enough!) and enabling ready boost.

This will make Vista use the flash drive as a 'half way house' between the RAM and the HD.