TV License and laptops.

Hobbes

Was on FM104 this morning so could of just been a windup. But they mentioned that RTE are looking into that if you own a laptop that you need to own a TV license?

I've heard before that if you didn't own a TV but had a computer in the house they could ask for a TV license but I have never heard of anyone being pulled up on that.

Also they mentioned laptop because it wouldn't be covered by the house license (as its portable)

KTRIC

Eh, my laptop doesn't have a tuner installed

I haven't bought a licence for my 42' plasma and I'm certainly not buying one for a frickin laptop.

Jip

You misheard the story slightly but FM104s dramatic headline didn't help much either.

If a household already has a T.V. licence there's no need for any additional licences no matter how many laptops or desktops that are capable of receiving television exist.
The new legislation is aimed at people who have no T.V. in the house but do use their desktops or laptops to view television.

Hobbes

KTRIC wrote:

Eh, my laptop doesn't have a tuner installed

Because you can recieve programs via the internet or play DVD/movies on it then according to the description it would fall under the TV license. (As they said)

Owen

They would need to prove you have a TV Tuner card in your laptop/desktop. As the previous poster stated, if you have a 42inch Plasma and don't watch TV, but do use it for your Xbox, you're okay. It's just an expensive monitor :-)

Hobbes

You do not need a TV tuner card to have the laptop fall under the description of a TV licence as you can recieve it over the internet now.

I also didn't mishear FM104, they said that because the laptop is portable it isn't classed as part of the house licenses. If that was the case then if you own two houses you would only need 1 TV licence (as you could claim the TV was from the other house).

layke

Knock Knock*

Door opens

Me : Yes? Can I help you?
TV Guys : Hi i'm here to check your TV license please.
Me : I don't own a TV, sorry.
TV guy : Do you own a laptop or a Personal Computer sir?
Me : yup.
Tv Guy : Well can they recieve terrestrial channels?
Me : No, ony torrents of TV shows & movies, like any computer potentially can.
Tv Guy : May I come in and see your system
Me : No.
*Door slams shut in face*
*Tv Guy Sobs helplessly*

miles teg

ned78 wrote:

...As the previous poster stated, if you have a 42inch Plasma and don't watch TV, but do use it for your Xbox, you're okay. It's just an expensive monitor :-)

I don' think that true. If you have tv in your house, you need a license regardless of what you use it for. Here's a link:
http://www.oasis.gov.ie/public_utilities/telecommunications/tv_licences.html

Hobbes

yea if you have any device in your house capable of receiving TV programs and isn't doing so you need a TV licence.

If you have a broken TV for example only in the house you need a TV licence.

Jip

Hobbes wrote:

I also didn't mishear FM104, they said that because the laptop is portable it isn't classed as part of the house licenses.

If a house already has a T.V. licence you will not need an additional one for a laptop within that house.

KTRIC

Am I the only one here that thinks this sounds absolutly absurd ??

Its a f**king laptop , not a tv. In other words they want to get people to pay for the privalage of being able to watch a "downloaded" show on their laptop.

It looks like another stealth tax.

Hobbes

If a house already has a T.V. licence you will not need an additional one for a laptop within that house.

The point was the laptop is portable.

KTRIC wrote:

Am I the only one here that thinks this sounds absolutly absurd ??

If its true I agree.

Jip

It's not just laptops, it also includes desktops.

Quoted from todays Independent....

However, only one €158 licence fee must be paid per household regardless of how many TVs or PCs are in a home. So the change in legislation will not target people who already pay the fee.

subway

i ahve a portable, handheld tv which i dont need a license for,
why would i need it for a laptop?

and if a 42" plasma doenst have a tuner installed you dont need a license as it cannot receive any signal.

the fact that a device plays dvds is not grounds for a license requiremetn,
dvds are paid for in advance and then licensed to the owner for whatever purpose the eula states.

miles teg

subway wrote:

i ahve a portable, handheld tv which i dont need a license for,
why would i need it for a laptop?

and if a 42" plasma doenst have a tuner installed you dont need a license as it cannot receive any signal.

the fact that a device plays dvds is not grounds for a license requiremetn,
dvds are paid for in advance and then licensed to the owner for whatever purpose the eula states.

You do need a license for a portable tv. If you don't believe the link I posted earlier, here's a case specifically involving a portable tv:
http://www.comhairle.ie/social/social_update_2004part2.html

miles teg

another interesting link regarding mobile phones with tv functionality:

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/8273721?view=Eircomnet

subway

i think your picking and choosing what you want to read.

i have a license for my household and am therefore licensed to use a portable tv of my own ownership in other places.

the link you posted has little or no relevance in this instance since it relates to someone not in possesion of a license.

Hobbes

subway wrote:

i have a license for my household and am therefore licensed to use a portable tv of my own ownership in other places.

So by your defination if I buy a TV and leave it in my sisters house she doesn't have to pay a TV license because I am paying for one in my house.

I'd love to see what the outcome of that would be in court.

miles teg

subway wrote:

i think your picking and choosing what you want to read.

i have a license for my household and am therefore licensed to use a portable tv of my own ownership in other places.

the link you posted has little or no relevance in this instance since it relates to someone not in possesion of a license.

Well I chose to read all of your previous post and you didn't mention anything about already owning a license.
Plus Hobbes is right. A license relates to a premises, not a particular piece of equipment.

Paulw

It seems that people have a problem reading. The law is clear -

"If your household, business or institution possesses a television or equipment capable of receiving a television signal, you are required by law to have a television licence. Even if the television or other equipment is broken and currently unable to receive a signal, it is regarded as capable of being repaired so it can receive a signal and you must hold a licence for it. Failure to produce evidence of a television licence to an inspector can result in a court appearance and on conviction, you can receive a substantial fine."

This is now being changed so that any device capable of receiving any broadcast (even via the internet) then falls under this law. So, laptop, desktop, even portable devices such as Creative Zen Vision:M, or potentially your 3G mobile phone all qualify.

miles teg

Paulw wrote:

It seems that people have a problem reading. The law is clear -

"If your household, business or institution possesses a television or equipment capable of receiving a television signal, you are required by law to have a television licence. Even if the television or other equipment is broken and currently unable to receive a signal, it is regarded as capable of being repaired so it can receive a signal and you must hold a licence for it. Failure to produce evidence of a television licence to an inspector can result in a court appearance and on conviction, you can receive a substantial fine."

This is now being changed so that any device capable of receiving any broadcast (even via the internet) then falls under this law. So, laptop, desktop, even portable devices such as Creative Zen Vision:M, or potentially your 3G mobile phone all qualify.

couldn't put it better myself.

Hobbes

miles teg wrote:

A license relates to a premises, not a particular piece of equipment.

Exactly which is why all the contention. If you have an item that can get TV broadcasts (through whatever means) and is portable it is no longer part of the premises. As someone pointed out in a link earlier.

subway

my apologies to miles teg.
i honestly mistyped my original post.

i was meant to state that i have a license for my home and as i am the owner of the item i am covered as it is a mobile, not permanent device.

i didnt have time to re read it as i am busy at thr minuite.
i will try to reply fully later on.

miles teg

subway wrote:

my apologies to miles teg.
i honestly mistyped my original post.

i was meant to state that i have a license for my home and as i am the owner of the item i am covered as it is a mobile, not permanent device.

i didnt have time to re read it as i am busy at thr minuite.
i will try to reply fully later on.

not to worry. Personally, I think things are getting a bit fuzzy with more portable/mobile devices on the market (hence the redefining of the law), but after all the debate, if someone is going to watch the telly, just buy a license and save yourself the hassle of possible convictions

generalmiaow

Where is "television signal" defined in the law? Does watching a youtube video count as receiving a television signal?

Paulw

It's not the fact of what you watch, it's the fact that your device can watch content.

So, since you can watch content from youtube, then you technically can watch/download/stream content from rte.ie etc.

MOH

OK, I didn't hear the report earlier, I'm just going by what I've read in this thread and what's in the 'news report' on the fm104 website:

"Tv licence for your laptop
You could need a TV license for your laptop. Under new proposals people who watch TV programmes on their computer will have to fork out the fee. Licence fee inspectors currently don't go after people who watch TV on their PCs. But under the draft Broadcasting Bill the definition of a 'television set' is likely to be expanded to include PCs, laptops - it could even be extended to mobile phones. However, in a significant change only one licence fee will have to be paid per household regardless of how many TVs or PCs are in a home. "

Dunno what they're on about in the last sentence. You only need one licence fee as it is regardless of how many TVs you have. From OASIS:
"If the equipment capable of receiving a television signal (i.e., a television set, a personal computer), etc. is held in a household (i.e., apartment, flat, house), then one television licence will cover multiple pieces of equipment. "

I'd imagine any change more aimed at people who don't have a TV but watch TV through a tuner card on their desktop/laptop. That would be covered by the current law as PC + tuner card = equipment capable of receiving a television signal.

Changing the law to go after people who watch streamed or torrented TV over the internet would involve changing the definition of what a television signal is, which would open a whole can of worms. Does that mean you need a licence for your mobile phone? In case you sign up for Premiership highlights?

Plus since the whole point of the TV licence is to fund public service broadcasting, until RTE start broadcasting on the web, I can't see them getting away with charging a fee in this way.

Paulw

RTE do broadcast some content online (news etc).

Yes, they have said that they will define the new law, which may well include mobile phones and portable devices.

Any device capable of receiving a signal of video content.

One license covers all devices in that property.

MOH

Sorry for the double post, but the proposals for the new broadcasting bill are published for comment here

In particular, Part 6 on this page, sections 51 and 52 define broadcasting and televisions:

Section 51 has:
"television set" means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasts broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction therewith) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus.

“television broadcasting” means the initial transmission by wire or over the air, including that by satellite, in unencoded or encoded form, of television programmes intended for reception by the public. It includes the communication of programmes between undertakings with a view to their being relayed to the public. It does not include communication services providing items of information or other messages on individual demand such as telecopying, electronic data banks and other similar services.

Unfortunately section 52 then has:
"Objective of this head is to empower the Minister to make secondary legislation designating a device or software programme to be a television set (within the context of the definition of a television set provided in Head 51). "

Which kind of leaves it up to the Minister to decide what is and isn't a TV. And given past Ministers' wonderful track record on technological issues like broadband, we'll probably end up needing licences for everything from a plasma TV to a PSP.

generalmiaow

In order to receive the RTE.ie web broadcasts it would be necessary to not only have a PC, but an internet connection, or at least the capability of having an internet connection (a modem, say) too. I wonder would the new rule apply to computers without internet connections or modems? I'm sure many of these exist in shops, for example, and I'm sure a good few shops don't have TV licences.

bringitdown

You can see the text of the propsed bill at:
http://www.econsultation.ie/

You can also register your observations should you want to.