TV License and laptops.

Red Alert

but that's silly - nobody's forcing RTE to make anything available online. that's like making us all pay a fine because our computers could receive child porn sites.

Hobbes

generalmiaow wrote:

In order to receive the RTE.ie web broadcasts it would be necessary to not only have a PC, but an internet connection, or at least the capability of having an internet connection (a modem, say) too. I wonder would the new rule apply to computers without internet connections or modems? I'm sure many of these exist in shops, for example, and I'm sure a good few shops don't have TV licences.

According to the new legistation just having a software program that is capable of displaying media counts as needing a license. So Windows Media player would mean you need a license.

[edit] read it all. this is total bollox. They should do away with the Fee altogether.

dazberry

If this is taken at face value - most likely every company that has a PC, Internet access(?) and any form of codec installed is likely to face a threat of needing a TV licence? Can't see that going down too well myself.

D.

gerryo

Does this mean all tourists & other temporary visitors to Ireland will need to purchase a TV licence if they have a laptop or phone with the ability to view streamed content? Who is going to check or will they be OK, because they are non-residents

What about companies with several PC's, why should they have to buy a licence when nobody watches TV on the PC's. Schools would also be affected.

We'll be (once again) the laughing stock of Europe (possibly the world) if this gets passed into law.

Hobbes

gerryo wrote:

Does this mean all tourists & other temporary visitors to Ireland will need to purchase a TV licence if they have a laptop or phone with the ability to view streamed content? Who is going to check or will they be OK, because they are non-residents

Short answer is yes. According to the earlier links one such case happened.

What about companies with several PC's, why should they have to buy a licence when nobody watches TV on the PC's. Schools would also be affected.

Well a school would have at least one TV anyway. But yea it would be a pain for smaller companies. Btw according to the rules Premises + your vehicle are defined as seperate locations.

What amazed me as well is how easy they can get a search warrent as well if you refuse to let them into your house/car.

MOH

Based on reading the full text of the proposal:
If your vehicle is considered seperate from your house;
and if a laptop/mobile phone is considered a piece of television equipment;

and
"In a prosecution for an offence under section 53 in which it is shown that a television set was in a particular vehicle on a particular day, it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown by the defendant, that on that day the television set was in the possession of the owner of the vehicle"

Does that mean if I'm in a car, with a laptop, the car owner needs to have a TV licence?

This whole thing is nuts.

Tom Dunne

MOH wrote:

“television broadcasting” means the initial transmission by wire or over the air, including that by satellite, in unencoded or encoded form, of television programmes intended for reception by the public. It includes the communication of programmes between undertakings with a view to their being relayed to the public.

This covers traditional broadcasting, i.e. cable tv, UHF and satellite.

It does not include communication services providing items of information or other messages on individual demand such as telecopying, electronic data banks and other similar services.

And this covers computers and mobile phones, both of which can only be used via a communication service, i.e. the internet or the mobile phone network.

So hysteria over. Let's all take a deep breath and calm down.

Hobbes

tom dunne wrote:

So hysteria over. Let's all take a deep breath and calm down.

Go read the admendments to the laws they are currently trying to pass, it does in fact relate to Software, Routers, PCs.

For example from the new bill:

"television set" means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasts broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction therewith) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus.

"electronic communications network" means transmission systems including, where applicable—
(a) switching equipment,
(b) routing equipment,
(c) other resources,
which permit the conveyance of signals by wire, by radio, by optical or by other electromagnetic means, and such conveyance includes the use of—
(i) satellite networks,
(ii) electricity cable systems, to the extent that they are used for the purposes of transmitting signals,
(iii) fixed terrestrial networks (both circuit-switched and packet-switched, including the Internet),
(iv) mobile terrestrial networks,
(v) networks used for either or both radio and television broadcasting, and
(vi) cable television networks,
irrespective of the type of information conveyed;

Tom Dunne

And if you look under section 53 there is provision to exempt certain devices:

Notes
The objective of subsections (1) to (3) of this head is to subject the possession of television sets to licencing requirements. Subsection (3) empowers the Minister to exempt a class or description of television sets from the licensing requirement, for example domestic personal computers or mobile handsets capable of exhibiting television pictures.

Ok, so I haven't read the whole act, and selective quoting is best left to religious fundamentalists.

I honestly don't see how legistlation such as this can be introduced with such wide ramifications. Not to mention how this could be enforced, as most of the posters have correctly pointed out.

Hobbes

It is only a provision and doesn't say that they are actually avoiding using PCs, only that they can remove them from the list at a later time.

Also still if a PC doesn't fall under it why say software? Or internet.

Or a good example is, if my sister in her house watches TV on a PC via a Slingblade in my house, who pays the TV license?

I also can't see how it would be enforced as it amounts to a stealth tax. But then people said the same thing about bin charges.

Tom Dunne

Hobbes wrote:

It is only a provision and doesn't say that they are actually avoiding using PCs, only that they can remove them from the list at a later time.

Also still if a PC doesn't fall under it why say software? Or internet.

I would imagine software is in there as catch-all to cover items such as set-top boxes, which are essentially glorified computers. Internet - yes, I accept this is worrying.

Hobbes wrote:

Or a good example is, if my sister in her house watches TV on a PC via a Slingblade in my house, who pays the TV license?

I also can't see how it would be enforced as it amounts to a stealth tax. But then people said the same thing about bin charges.

I can't see this being enforced due to the ever-changing technical landscape. If you were to say to the average TV inspector, it's a Slingblade (Slingbox?), is he/she liable to understand what the technicalities of it are? What if a new devices comes onto the market, taking an different approach? Legislation would have to be continually updated, as would the people enforcing such legislation.

Call me naive, call me plain stupid, but I just can't see this being enacted, never mind enforced.

Gurgle

The TV license is a 'Television Ownership' fine in the first place.

Its 40 years out of date, from way back when a TV was a luxory and only people who were well off could afford one. Then it would have been unreasonable to pay for RTE's public service out of the national coffers. Now everyone has one and the TV license is just another poll-tax in disguise.

Government should just write RTE a cheque once a year anyway and do away with the whole bloody thing.

The new legislation is no less reasonable than the old setup. It's already punishing you for being honest.

gerryo

Gurgle wrote:

Government should just write RTE a cheque once a year anyway and do away with the whole bloody thing.

Can the government still do that, or will some EU (busy)body consdier it an illegal subsidy? I suppose if it is a Public Service, then that might be OK, but then it would have to be "free for all"

Gurgle

gerryo wrote:

Can the government still do that, or will some EU (busy)body consdier it an illegal subsidy? I suppose if it is a Public Service, then that might be OK, but then it would have to be "free for all"

AFAIK, the fact thats its considered a Public Service is the only justification they have for taking the TV license money and giving it all to the provider of 1% of our broadcasts, which has just as much advertising on as their rivals.

cormie

This is a joke, I have a laptop and never watch tv. In fact, if I moved into a brand new house, a tv would be one of the last things on my to-buy list, that's if I'd even buy one.

So the inspector comes to the door and says what exactly? What rights do they have and what rights do we have at the door? Is it just a matter of them taking your word?

What if you had some software to disable the device to be capable of receiving the signal or something like that:o

Tom Dunne

cormie wrote:

What if you had some software to disable the device to be capable of receiving the signal or something like that:o

This is my whole point - how do you enforce a law that is aimed at a moving target?

Do you say "all PC's, laptops and mobile phones - full stop" or do you say "all PC's, laptops and mobile phones that have software on them to receive moving pictures". You then get into the realm of device capability and software compatibility. Can you honestly see a TV inspector inspecting every piece of electronic gadgetry in your house? Can a TV inspector differentiate between a Windows 95 PC on dial up vs. a Core Duo machine with full broadband access? I think not.

Likewise with mobile phones - can all phones with colour screens watch videos? Probably those made in the last 2-3 years, but what about older phones?

There is too much ambiguity for this proposed legislation to be practical.

BrianD

You can buy a DTT (Digiter Terrestrial TV) USB stick that will turn any laptop into a TV. RTE are testing DTT now in Dublin and the north east. In the UK, they non-traditional devices such as mobile phones that can receive TV are only treated as "TV sets" if the content you are viewing is being broadcast simultaneously on traditional TV.