mary harney to resign as PD party leader?

NewDubliner

billy the squid wrote:

I only wish the rest of the PDs would resign, they have ruined the country and made life miserable for the less-well off in this country.

Maybe she's finally realised that the PDs have been living a lie for some years.

democrates

Sponge Bob wrote:

LOL . do you fancy her that much ???

I do not think she will run although she is by far the best leader they could have in the next election if they want to be electable.

What's not to like. If she ever becomes available stifflers mom is demoted to backup.

She's into human rights, overseas development and aid, so may not be pd enough for the college compared with Zarathustra McDowell. Whoever is party leader and tanaiste there'll be two ministries going, she is well qualified to take Justice with good legal and foreign affairs experience, and they could release the rottweiler upon health - bear with me - the vested interests holding up progress have to be blitzkrieged, who better?

A bit of exposure to the suffering v the comfortable in this country might temper his radical capitalist zeal over time, and if he wants re-election he can't totally F it up. Also FF would hardly risk starving it of funding in the budgets before the next election as voters won't all buy the "a&e = pd" excuse. Or would it be too risky for the ill?

Villain

irish1 wrote:

Well Ms Harney played a nice bit of PR announcing this the same day the report into the death of Pat Joe Walsh in Monaghan General Hospital was released showing that the mess that the health system is in is causing lives to be lost.

Does anyone else think the timing of her announcement was deliberatly meant to take away from the report?

shnaek

I think history will be kinder to Mary Harney than most people appear to be. In taking over the health ministry she took an impossible, thankless job voluntarily because she believed she could make a difference. She attempted, along with her party, to free Dublin airport from the hands of vested interests. She has been attempting the same thing with Dublin bus. (And also with health)
Now before people jump on here suggesting I am a PD supporter I am going to say this – I support no party, and would vote for a kitchen chair before I would vote for any of the party leaders currently on offer. I am utterly sick of Irish politics, but Irish people are as much to blame for this as politicians are.
But I have to defend elements of Mary Harney’s political career – such as her belief she could make a difference in health, and willingness to go up against vested interests in both health and in transport. Had she succeeded in either she would have made a huge difference to the way our country is run.
Alas moronic short termism, parish pump policies and cowardice is what gets the votes these days. Magicians tricks misdirecting the public who fall for such nonsense every time. Mary Harney has probably always been aware of this, but recent events have forced her hand. But I think she deserves to be remembered well, for standing up and taking the hard road, and for taking hard and often unpopular decisions because she believed it was for the good of the country.

civdef

I only wish the rest of the PDs would resign, they have ruined the country and made life miserable for the less-well off in this country.

Yeah, things have never been worse.

road_high

Tom Parlon for leader please- it would be such a laugh- it be so satisfying to watch the PD leader loose their seat at the next election too.

Mad Finn

Heres a 1970's soul classic for the day that's in it.

WexfordMusings

With Fianna Fáil - Failing & now the Progressive Democrats - Regressing, I think we will see a general election quite soon.

Of course if a general election was announced first thing on Monday morning, I think FF & PD would be in big trouble.

Although saying that, Mary's job is probably the hardest of the ministerial positions. Who would want it. Now dont get me wrong, I don't like Mary Harney but she did try very hard. I think the bulldog McDowell (whom I don't like either) might be able to get somewhere as he seems to be able to jump head-long into something, ignore the media, not worry about who he is pissing off and just do the job.

In a new Government of FG, Labour & Greens, who can take over as minister for Health. Is there anyone with the same thick skin as McDowell, I Don't think so. Saying that I still want the PD's & FF out...

:cool:

Raskolnikov

My first thought on hearing the news, was that the resignation was a political move by Harney in order to preserve the PD's in the coming general election. McDowell has largely been an unpopular figure in his role as Justice Minister, Harney on the other hand is increasingly being seen as a failure in her role of Health Minister. If that situation was remain come the next election, the PD's would almost certainly face electoral losses.

Solair

I have seen Mary Harney speaking off-camera and off mic and she's far warmer and friendlier in person than she comes across on TV/Radio. She's always been very well meaning and genuinely committed to improving things and without being a PD supporter either, I would have to say that she's one of the most solid and respectable people in Irish politics.

However, Mc Dowell is someone I simply have no time for at all. He just comes across as extremely arrogant and high handed and doesn't have the qualities that I would expect to see in a party leader. Personally, I would think that with him at the helm the PDs would be on a rapid road to the extreme fringes of Irish politics. Politics in Ireland's fairly centre, Mc Dowell sometimes seems to be more like a rightwing Tory than a PD.

Liz O'Donnell would be a far more pleasant choice of leader and I think would be able to keep the party in the main stream and continue on Harney's general liberal, pro-business yet fairly socially focused agenda.
I also think that Liz is probabally better able to present a warm face to the media and would generally make a good figure head for the party. Harney's always come across a little cold. Liz could perhaps do more of a "bertie".

red dave

irish1 wrote:

Does anyone else think the timing of her announcement was deliberatly meant to take away from the report?

Absolutely it was. I think it's disgusting that she has done this on the very day that the report came out. People should be talking about the report and not her resignation.

It's the oldest possible hook line and sinker political thing to do to divert attention away from bad pr.

Apologies if you might think i'm off topic however I am extremely annoyed with how she has gone about this and the timing :mad: :mad:

gandalf

First of all glad she has gone, hopefully she will be gone from Health soon as well because it is still a major disaster area and this government do not have the political will to sort it out.

I am hoping McDowell gets the leadership because I reckon that will finish the PD's altogether.

As for the timing of the resignation, yes I do believe it was used to divert attention from the publication of the damning report on that poor mans death in Monaghan.

Glenbhoy

red dave wrote:

Absolutely it was. I think it's disgusting that she has done this on the very day that the report came out. People should be talking about the report and not her resignation.

Amazingly it was also the same day The Greens had their think tank thingy. Not that anyone heard anything about it.

I can't see any thread on the Pat Joe Walsh report here.

Clearly the people alleging a diversion have allowed themselves to become diverted.

Villain

Well I'll start one if you like but can't see it getting much response, her timing was disgusting and imo it was very deliberate that was my point. Although I wouldn't expect anything else from the PD's the sooner they get out of government the better.

Mary Harney took on the health portfolio and like all the other FF ministers before her have failed to make any real improvments, the fact that Pat Joe Walsh died in those circumstances is proof of that.

_Kaiser_

Hang on a sec... you're all vilifying the media for quizzing her on using her influence to get her mother preferential treatment, but I say fair play to them for calling her on it.

Yes ok, noone wants to see their mother sick, but why should she be treated any different than the rest of the people who needed treatment??? It's precisely this "if you can short-circuit the system then fair play to you" mentality that leads to a lot of the problems in the health service and elsewhere in Irish life.

Politicians aren't kings or gods (no matter what some of them think), they're employed (and overpaid I might add!) to serve the public, not their own interests and unfortunately there's far to many of them whose sole aim is to get into government and stay there!

I noted that while Mary may be sterpping down as leader, she's determined to stay Tanaiste and in Health (for whatever reason - it's not like she's done any good there). IMO she's no different than the rest of them.

Diogenes

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Hang on a sec... you're all vilifying the media for quizzing her on using her influence to get her mother preferential treatment, but I say fair play to them for calling her on it.

Theres an unsubstaniated claim that both she and hospital deny that her mother was given preferential treatment.

Given the fuss about Lawlor and the "call girl" when he died, I'm less likely to completely believe a story written in one of the sunday tabloids.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

Mary Harney took on the health portfolio and like all the other FF ministers before her have failed to make any real improvments, the fact that Pat Joe Walsh died in those circumstances is proof of that.

No it's not, it's proof of another death being used a political football. Is it significant that if you Google the name Pat Joe Walsh the first entry is the Fine Gael political website. If I remember correctly, the last time people tried to hijack a patient's death to make points about politics it transpired that someone had made an incorrect decision to send a child home and it had nothing to do with the system. Of course this time around it may be different, I would have to see the report in full myself before commenting. Do you know where I can get a copy online? Obviously, I presume we none of us are merely relying on newspaper soundbites...

democrates

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Hang on a sec... you're all vilifying the media for quizzing her on using her influence to get her mother preferential treatment, but I say fair play to them for calling her on it.

Yes ok, noone wants to see their mother sick, but why should she be treated any different than the rest of the people who needed treatment??? It's precisely this "if you can short-circuit the system then fair play to you" mentality that leads to a lot of the problems in the health service and elsewhere in Irish life.

The thing is, because she's a politician she is treated differently, any normal person wouldn't have to endure that, you'd be sensitive about such family situations, but a politician is dragged over the coals regardless.

That goes with the job you may say, and I agree that any rule duality should be covered by the press, but basic humanity and common-sense timing is absolutely absent in the scoop frenzy and I think it's making politics a no-go area for many people who could otherwise be in there doing a good job on our behalf.

In all my years I've never bought a tabloid (red-top) newspaper, I read them periodically and the downward trend is getting worse. A bit of humour and satire would be quite welcome if only it were accompanied by any measure of intelligent insight. It takes two to tango, the private interests profiting from dumbing down the working class, and the consumers of that drivel handing over cash for it.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Politicians aren't kings or gods (no matter what some of them think), they're employed (and overpaid I might add!) to serve the public, not their own interests and unfortunately there's far to many of them whose sole aim is to get into government and stay there!

I noted that while Mary may be sterpping down as leader, she's determined to stay Tanaiste and in Health (for whatever reason - it's not like she's done any good there). IMO she's no different than the rest of them.

Reading between the lines I think she wants out of health but can't say so without damaging the party, that it's because the pd's are due for a leadership change and new blood, and she'd love to stay in health is just damage-limitation spin imho.

I don't think they're all the same, while there's some commonality in what it takes to survive in politics, I certainly wouldn't view MH as identical to the brown envelope brigade, the difference is a major factor in how the PD's came into being and how we vote. That said I'm for direct democracy evolving over time from the grassroots up, so I'm not a staunch supporter of the flawed status quo.

Cork

Mary Harney & Micheal Martin have led Health Reform.

No more - have we Health Boards with their County Council membership.

We have now management structures in place that are accountable.

Reforming any system takes time.

Sure, there are areas like A + E that need improvement. But many areas of the system work well.


Mary Harney has been a far superior Minister for Health than either Brendan Howlin or Michael "the Hoodie" Noonan.

Cronus333

Cork wrote:

Mary Harney & Micheal Martin have led Health Reform.

No more - have we Health Boards with their County Council membership.

We have now management structures in place that are accountable.

Reforming any system takes time.

Sure, there are areas like A + E that need improvement. But many areas of the system work well.


Mary Harney has been a far superior Minister for Health than either Brendan Howlin or Michael "the Hoodie" Noonan.

Well it's hard to fall below Noonan....

But otherwise I'd agree with you. But unfortunatly all their work will disappear in time and memories and will not benefit anyone involved.

Victor

democrates wrote:

My money is on Liz as well and I'm willing to put my mouth where my money is.

Oh, only to rearrange those words.

zepp wrote:

http://www.irishelection.com/09/mary-harney-resigns/ seemingly liz is paddy powers favourite

Irrelevant poll. It needs to comprise PDs only. The FG leader is invariably the least popular party leader. Why? He is the only one that FF see as a threat.

irish1 wrote:

Does anyone else think the timing of her announcement was deliberatly meant to take away from the report?

Dude, toooo cynical.

Cork

But for a small party - the PDs have 3 possible leaders - McDowell, O'Donnell and Parlon.

Much more leadership talent than many other partys.

McDowell will win.

I think he will be a threat to FG.

As FG cosy up to Labour - they are many FGs who will find this disagreeable.

McDowell does not believe in High Taxes.

I think Electric Enda will have more to worry about.

Diaspora

The PD's have a serious problem in that they have two strong canidates in McDowell and Parlon and the very likable Liz O'Donnell. The problem is that McDowell is deeply unpopular in rural Ireland and Parlon's decentralisation antics have angered a lot of urban Ireland.

Where Kenny, Rabbitte and Ahern are different is that each can win respect outside their natural demographic / geographical base.

Go for Tom Parlon and you may retain the two midland seats that look doomed and Galway West may be held; go for McDowell and those seats are gone with no gains to replace them.

Mick86

billy the squid wrote:

I only wish the rest of the PDs would resign, they have ruined the country and made life miserable for the less-well off in this country.

There is only a handful of PDs in Government. Any misery is the fault of the majority partner. That said there isn't really much misery about.

billy the squid wrote:

I imagine if Tom Parlon was made leader of the PDs we would end up having Dail eireann moved to som hamlet in County Laois. Michael McDowell?

He'd have to change the constitution first.

billy the squid wrote:

what's the Irish for Gestapo.

IRA

partholon

Cork wrote:

Mary Harney & Micheal Martin have led Health Reform.
.

We have now management structures in place that are accountable.

.

ok i must have missed this, exactly who was held responsible for Dr Neary when he was butchering women? i seem to remember 3 of his collegues investigating him and giving him a clean bill of health!

and i agree with the conspiracy therory, its very convenient it came out on the same day the report on pat jo walsh's death was published. remind me again which individual in the health service has been sacked for "falling below the acceptable level of good health practice" ?

im confused here cause all i see is a huge increase in public sector management jobs with all the perks that go along with it, a parallell health service that staffs the HSE and all the old health boards employees as well, including all the directors ,costing the state an absolute fortune. the old heads alone cost the tax payer over a milliion euro a year, not bad money for sitting on your ass!

of course there's one other thing to remember, the investigation into leas cross is due out next week. anyone here think maybe mary got a sneak preview of that and wants to run damage control? it doesnt look so bad leaving health if its taken off you by your new leader:)

Cork

No government has spent so much on Health.

The Health Boards were a disaster. Made up with County Councillors.

The HSE has stopped Health being used as a political Football.

Good management practices were needed.

Administration is needed. Proper Budgeting and costing is warranted.

Sure, the system has flaws that need remedy but big improvements are being made.

Michael McDowell will appeal to the traditional FG voter.

I think Electric Enda should be worried.

Softening FG party policy to appease the socialist left leaves a sizeable gap for the PDs.

Villain

Cork wrote:

No government has spent so much on Health.

The Health Boards were a disaster. Made up with County Councillors.

The HSE has stopped Health being used as a political Football.

Good management practices were needed.

Administration is needed. Proper Budgeting and costing is warranted.

Sure, the system has flaws that need remedy but big improvements are being made.

Michael McDowell will appeal to the traditional FG voter.

I think Electric Enda should be worried.

Softening FG party policy to appease the socialist left leaves a sizeable gap for the PDs.

If the PD's and FF haven't been able to reform the health system properly in the last 10 years what makes you think they can do it now. Spending more money than previous governments means nothing if it doesn't produce results and I can tell you if you have been in an hospital recently you will know that money hasn't got the results this nation needs.

They have had their chance and failed, now its time an alternative government had a chance, I'm not saying they will be much better but the Public have to give them a chance because the PD's and FF have failed and IMO it won't matter who is leader of the PD's because they have had their day and failed.

Cronus333

irish1 wrote:

If the PD's and FF haven't been able to reform the health system properly in the last 10 years what makes you think they can do it now. Spending more money than previous governments means nothing if it doesn't produce results and I can tell you if you have been in an hospital recently you will know that money hasn't got the results this nation needs.

They have had their chance and failed, now its time an alternative government had a chance, I'm not saying they will be much better but the Public have to give them a chance because the PD's and FF have failed and IMO it won't matter who is leader of the PD's because they have had their day and failed.

But the point remains that under Harney we have gotten closer. Why risk it? We don't even know what set of policies health will get. Labour and FG aren't exactly similar in this regard.
FF absorb policies like a sponge so this is so much of a problem at the minute but it would be completely unknown with Rainbow.
Which party would be stupid enough to take it?

Villain

Well we won't know until we give them a chance, trust me I'm not saying this because I support FG, actually thinking FG and their history in the Health department makes me quite angry, what Noonan did when he was last in charge was nothing short of a disgrace. But I still want to see some fresh faces in the department, a fresh approach is needed. I could be on here in 4 years begging for the PD's to come back but I doubt it.

The PD's imo have too much influence for a small party, Health and Justice need reform and that needs the support of the TD's in government, how many times have the backbenchers blocked plans of McDowell??