mary harney to resign as PD party leader?

Cork

Victor wrote:

Liar.

I got some facts wrong.

Random breath-testing has reduced road deaths.

This is a welcome.

I'm sure those hard working people that spend a couple of hours on the M50 carpark everyday would trade in their LCD TV for some more time at home everyday or knowing that if they are unlucky enough to end up in an A&E clinic they won't end up on a trolley waiting for someone to die or leave so they can get a bed.

Some are very happy with their big screen TVs. Maybe they should be out exercising and not behaving like couch patatoes.

Maybe they should be leading a healthy lifestyle and cutting down on fags and ancahol.

Road Accidents are also caused by driver stupidity - no amount of government action will remedy this.

The Irish spend more money on alcohol per capita, than any other country in the world, according to 'The Economist' magazine.

Maybe ancahol is a contributing factor??

Ancahol is a big factor - hence the importance of Random breath-testing.

Diogenes

Cork wrote:

I got some facts wrong.

I think the suggestion is that you intentialy mispresented the facts.

Random breath-testing has reduced road deaths.

This is a welcome.

Yeah but not enough and not too soon.

Some are very happy with their big screen TVs. Maybe they should be out exercising and not behaving like couch patatoes.

You're the one boasting about consumer trinkets as proof of a happier better Ireland, Victor suggested that less trinkets and a better quality of life is what many would prefer, the above is an utter non sequitur.

Maybe they should be leading a healthy lifestyle and cutting down on fags and ancahol.

Yeah, and I rarly mock smelling (sic) but perhaps you might consider laying off the bemish and other ancahols, before coming onto boards and giving lifestyle tips.

Road Accidents are also caused by driver stupidity - no amount of government action will remedy this.

Er penalty points and stringent testing to weed out stupid drivers? If one was implimented effectively, and the other was in any shape whatsoever, that would be a start of a remedy.

The Irish spend more money on alcohol per capita, than any other country in the world, according to 'The Economist' magazine.

Maybe ancahol is a contributing factor??

Ancahol is a big factor - hence the importance of Random breath-testing.

The ironing is delishious (sic). Oh isn't this the same government with at least two TDs who have commited two major traffic offenses while under the infulence, and haven't lost their jobs? Perhaps a supporter of this government shouldn't be lecturing the rest of us about the perils of drink driving when this government is failing to deal with the drink driving issue within it's own party.

Cork. Don't drink and post.



Yes I shouldn't mock the spelling of another poster but, c'mon people...

Cork

Diogenes wrote:

I think the suggestion is that you intentialy mispresented the facts.

I got facts wrong.

Big print & everything.

Oh isn't this the same government with at least two TDs who have commited two major traffic offenses while under the infulence, and haven't lost their jobs?

Do who want people who have drink driving offences to loose their jobs?

Drink Driving causes serious accidents. Using mobile phones whilst driving causes serius accidents.

It was this government who brought in
Random breath-testing
& Pelenty Points

A vast improvement than what was there before.

Er penalty points and stringent testing to weed out stupid drivers? If one was implimented effectively, and the other was in any shape whatsoever, that would be a start of a remedy.

The Gardai in this state were never better resourced.

Cork. Don't drink and post.

Wasn't the Garda Reserves a brillant idea?

Many drink and drive - there is a little think called personal resonsibility.

You cannot provide legalislation or check points to stop road carnage.

What legalislation have any opposition partys tried to introduce?

No government has even invested more in our roads network.

Investment in policing, roads and sanction were introduced by this government.

Along with this - drivers has also responsibility.

Personally - I have written to Gay Bryne & I have made a list of things I'd like to see implemented.

Road Safety is all our responsibilty.

Villain

Cork FF and PD's have had 10 years to sort out the problems of Road Saftey and they have failed big time. Now why should anyone believe that they will be any better if they were to be re-elected??

Yea they brought in Penalty points years too late and intially without any Computer system which resulted in huge numbers of people not receiving their points. Random breath testing after 9 years in Government???? Fairly quick off the mark aren't they?

Driving test system is a joke 9 years later its still a joke, seriously why should anyone believe they will solve these issues? They have ducked and dived for 9 years and failed to deliever in soooo many areas.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

Yea they brought in Penalty points years too late and intially without any Computer system which resulted in huge numbers of people not receiving their points. Random breath testing after 9 years in Government???? Fairly quick off the mark aren't they?

They delivered random breath testing and pelenty points. Yearly testing for goods vehicles etc.

More done than many successive governments on this issue.

Vast amounts of money are also being spent on building safer roads.

Could more be done? Of course.

But things are moving in the right direction.

cyclopath2001

irish1 wrote:

Cork FF and PD's have had 10 years to sort out the problems of Road Saftey and they have failed big time.

Let's not forget that it was the PDs who, in 1998, changed the road traffic regulations so motorists could drive in cycle lanes.

For cyclists, that says it all about the PDs.

Villain

Oh right so we'r back to the same auld Politics story:

"Oh ok we didn't do too well, but hey remember how much worse the other crowd were 10 years ago"

Waiting lists for driving tests are a major issue yet nearly 10 years on this government has failed to resolve the issue.

Come on Cork nearly 10 years in Government and all these issues are still there, random breath testing is welcome but far far too late. The governments inaction has COST LIVES.

Seriously how can you try and defend FF here, sure they have done well in other ares like job creation etc but come on lets call a spade a spade here Cork they have FAILED in relation to Road Saftey, too little too late and that has cost lives.

oscarBravo

Diogenes wrote:

Yes I shouldn't mock the spelling of another poster but, c'mon people...

No, you shouldn't. Do it again and you'll be taking a holiday from here.

Cork, this isn't a thread on road safety.

Cork

oscarBravo wrote:

Cork, this isn't a thread on road safety.

Point taken.

Back to Mary Harney - I think her legacy will be:
1 She brought in proper management methods and practices to public service provision
2 By cutting personal taxation - Rising personal taxation will no longer be tolerated by the voter
3 Introducing Smokeless Coal - saved lives

McDowell has much to live up to.

Macker

Cork wrote:

Point taken.

Back to Mary Harney - I think her legacy will be:
1 She brought in proper management methods and practices to public service provision
2 By cutting personal taxation - Rising personal taxation will no longer be tolerated by the voter
3 Introducing Smokeless Coal - saved lives

McDowell has much to live up to.

You want to see my bill for waste disposal ,800 and counting ,I'd rather pay through my income tax as it's by the week and not one big bill around christmas ,

NewDubliner

Cork wrote:

Point taken.
Back to Mary Harney - I think her legacy will be:
1 She brought in proper management methods and practices to public service provision

1. She backed the hugely wasteful and pointless 'decentralisation' project which will cost over 1bn euro, increase traffic congestion and diminish the quality of public services.

Victor

Cork, you don't even debate, you don't acknowledge other posters, you systematicly only look at one side of the argument. You just post rhetoric like one of the party faithful. You bothered to post a supposed fact, but through ambivalence or otherwise, presented a mistruth as fact.

By the way, 12 dead so far this month, heading back to usual.

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics98/nroadstats.html

Cork wrote:

You cannot provide legalislation or check points to stop road carnage.

Oddly enough, the government has shown the opposite. Make people appreciate that certain behaviors are unacceptable and they will behave. People demand to be treated like adults, but won't accept the associated responsibilities.

Cork

Macker wrote:

You want to see my bill for waste disposal ,800 and counting ,I'd rather pay through my income tax as it's by the week and not one big bill around christmas ,

But what about the polluter pays principle.

My weekly waste bill is zero - why should my taxation be increased.

She backed the hugely wasteful and pointless 'decentralisation' project which will cost over 1bn euro, increase traffic congestion and diminish the quality of public services

As a principle - It was not a bad one. The CSO and Safefood are working well in Cork. RTE ran a very favourable report last week on Killarney. Perhaps the project was over ambicious.

You bothered to post a supposed fact,

Again - I got some facts wrong in a previous post.

This is the 3rd time - I have acknowdged this.

Enough already.

Overall - Mary Harney is a decent and hard working politician. I think She'll be missed as leader of the PDs.

NewDubliner

Cork wrote:

As a principle - It was not a bad one. The CSO and Safefood are working well in Cork. RTE ran a very favourable report last week on Killarney. Perhaps the project was over ambicious.

RTE ran copy written by the FF/PD spin-doctors. You fell for it.

The CSO is not part of the current decentralisation project.

The Killarney relocation has failed to meet any of the declared objectives. It is already hugely over-budget. Most of the people who moved did not work or live in Dublin. Killarney itself did not need the jobs & was selected because it was in the constituency of the minister.

Overall - Mary Harney is a decent and hard working politician. I think She'll be missed as leader of the PDs.

The PDs, led by Mary Harney have backed the project to the hilt even though they claim to be against the waste of taxpayer's money. If she had given the failure of the decentralisation scheme as a reason for her resignation, she might have restored some credibility to her party.

Cork

NewDubliner wrote:

RTE ran copy written by the FF/PD spin-doctors. You fell for it.

Name the spin doctor?

The idea was good. Why should the Irish public service be based in Dublin?

In any private sector company - you have successes and failures. The case in no differant with elected government.

democrates

NewDubliner wrote:

The CSO is not part of the current decentralisation project.

If it was it'd become the DSO.

It would be nice to see the opposition publish a table, and for each problem with the current government they describe in column 1, describe their alternative position in column 2.

Would the fg/lab take legal action against the suppliers of infected blood products for example? Would they honour the original 0.7% of gdp on aid commitment? Lower vrt? Stop pushing for agri-trade rules that impoverish third-world farmers? License cafe-bars? Ban GM crops and foods? Promote organic? Insist on full food labelling? Meet Kyoto obligations? Reinstate the earlier FOI act? Be pro-active on transparency? Get good value for taxpayer euro using professional procurement negotiators? Promote entrepreneurship studies in second-level? Scrap SSAP's or make them available to everyone? Promote unencumbered TCP/IP to mobile phones? Support community wi-fi? Oppose software patents? Promote FLOSS software? Introduce postcodes? Make OSI geodetic data freely available to Irish citizens and bodies-corporate? This would go on but you get the point.

I'm not seriously expecting my x-mas stocking to be filled, just that it would be great to have a collated resource making it easier to compare the alternative policy platforms of those presenting themselves for election.

Now that I think of it an independant online facility would be better, maybe there's a sideline web business in it for someone.

NewDubliner

Cork wrote:

The idea was good.

The idea, the plan and execution of the plan are all different. Let's judge by results?

Cork wrote:

Why should the Irish public service be based in Dublin?

Why not? Dublin has a lot to offer. In any case, most public service jobs are not based in Dublin.

Cork wrote:

In any private sector company - you have successes and failures. The case in no differant with elected government.

Is that why Mary Harney has resigned?

Hotblack Desiato

Macker wrote:

You want to see my bill for waste disposal ,800 and counting ,I'd rather pay through my income tax as it's by the week and not one big bill around christmas ,

So - ask your local councillors why they haven't introduced a pay by use / bin tag system. Especially at local election time. Tell them you will vote for a candidate who supports this policy, and, most importantly, follow through on this.
Any service which is free at the point of use is open to abuse. A flat annual payment system isn't good either as it doesn't encourage people to reduce/reuse/recycle - you can throw out all you like once you've paid.

Mick86

Cork wrote:

Random breath-testing has reduced road deaths.

Random breath testing hasn't been around long enough to have had a provable effect on road deaths. If it does it certainly will be welcome.

I suspect that like the introduction of the penalty points system it will cause a temporary drop in the statistics.

If we want to reduce road deaths overall we need the Gardai consistently patrolling the roads. The long-weekend blitzes are great PR and that's about it. It's a sad fact that I can drive from my home to Dublin and not see a single Garda on the road. If I did get clocked speeding it would be either on a motorway or in a 50kph zone wherethe least amount of fatalities occur. You will never, ever meet a Garda speed trap on a back road with an 80kph limit, a speed limit cheerfully ignored by everybody by the way. You can also safely drive home pissed at weekends in the knowledge that garda checkpoints are scarcer than hen's teeth.

The legislation to reduce our death rate on the roads already exists. It's the implementation that's the problem. Implement the law and the boy racers, drunk drivers, speed freaks, unlicensed and inexperienced drivers will disappear off our roads.

Mick86

ninja900 wrote:

So - ask your local councillors why they haven't introduced a pay by use / bin tag system. Especially at local election time. Tell them you will vote for a candidate who supports this policy, and, most importantly, follow through on this.
Any service which is free at the point of use is open to abuse. A flat annual payment system isn't good either as it doesn't encourage people to reduce/reuse/recycle - you can throw out all you like once you've paid.

Most local authorities use both a service charge and a bin tag system. Two hidden taxes for the price of one.

Abandon the local authority and use a private refuse collection service. It's cheaper.

Diaspora

McDowell is on record as stating that the PD's will double their oireachtas representation at the next election; which aspirationally is totally fine.

Given that all bar Harney, McDowell and O'Donnell took the last or close to last seat in the last election where does this confidence come from?

Which of their numerous senators (Taoiseach's nominees) will enter An Dail?

I can see a 5/1 shot on Morrisey in Dublin West but couldn't name another PD senator with any chance of more than 2000 votes.

What odds would Paddy Power give on the PD's having 3 TDs come next July?

constitutionus

mary's the one that interests me the most. she's standing in my area of clondalkin and lucan it aint .

my bet? two seats next dail. big tom parlan and lovely liz. given macdowels 50/50 success rate at the polls hes due a kicking:D

Macker

ninja900 wrote:

So - ask your local councillors why they haven't introduced a pay by use / bin tag system. Especially at local election time. Tell them you will vote for a candidate who supports this policy, and, most importantly, follow through on this.
Any service which is free at the point of use is open to abuse. A flat annual payment system isn't good either as it doesn't encourage people to reduce/reuse/recycle - you can throw out all you like once you've paid.

Even if I never put anything out for collection there is a charge ,and if I reuse /recycle ,which I do as much as I can there is still a charge ,
My vote in the next election will not come down to just waste charges but it will be a concideration

MontgomeryClift

Diaspora wrote:

Given that all bar Harney, McDowell and O'Donnell took the last or close to last seat in the last election where does this confidence come from?

You could also consider that FF is the only party willing to go into government with the PDs in any of the likely outcomes at the next election. And with current trends and the poor FF/PD record since the last election that seems like an impossibility since they won't have enough seats between them. So people surely will think that a vote for a PD candidate is a wasted vote.

Desperate measures are needed. That McDowell character seems to know that. So he seems to be planning a tax giveaway budget for the next election. See here:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2006/09/18/story277257.html
Remember what happened with the last tax giveaway budget? Inflation went from 2.5% to 4.5%, Ireland lost an estimated 12% of her competitiveness and Rip-Off Ireland was born. I'm not economic sage, but with inflation now at 4.5%, tax cuts could mean disaster.

constitutionus

also dont forget alot of the PDs got their seats on the back of macdowels "dont let the bastards get an overall majority" platform. with even the conservtive polls saying bertie'll lose 20 seats thats not a conscern anymore. hence the ejection of those PDs

Cronus333

constitutionus wrote:

mary's the one that interests me the most. she's standing in my area of clondalkin and lucan it aint .

my bet? two seats next dail. big tom parlan and lovely liz. given macdowels 50/50 success rate at the polls hes due a kicking:D

Thats not going to happen.

Here is my PD candidate rating, in the order I think they would be elected. The three minus lines indicates that everyone above it I think will be elected, and below I do not.

Noel Graelish TD (Galway West)
Michael McDowell TD (Dublin South East)
Liz O'Donnell TD (Dublin South)
Mary Harney TD (Dublin Mid West)
Colm O'Gormain (Wexford)
Tom Parlon TD (Laois-Offaly)
---
Cllr. Ciaran Cannon (Galway East)
Tim O'Malley TD (Limerick East)
Fiona O'Malley TD (Dun Laoighre)
Sen. Tom Morrissey (Dublin North)
Sen. John Minahan (Cork South Central)
Mae Sexton TD (Longford-Westmeath)
Sirena Cambell (Meath East)
Sen. John Dardis (Kildare South)
Sen. Kate Walsh (Kildare North)
Sen. Michael Brennan (Limerick West)

REPSOC1916

Pity about Mary Harney resigning. Though Im no fan of the PDs(Im a member of Sinn Fein) I always liked her for some reason. Pity that D6 **** Micheal McDowell is going to take over.