Ntsa Agm 2006

Sparks · 09-09-2006 4:37pm #1

The NTSA AGM has been announced for September 23rd in UCD. Official notice attached.

Two motions put forward by the Board, to do with adding Child Protection policies to the articles and procedures of the NTSA.

Sparks · 09-09-2006 4:43pm

More motions submitted by the Wilkinstown Target Shooting Club:

NTSA AGM 2006
Motions for the Agenda

That this meeting be resolved to be the 2006 AGM of the NTSA.
That the NTSA be acknowleged to be a body set up for the purpose of serving and facilitiating the competitive endeavours of its constituent shooters.
That the NTSA be resolved to work with its constituent clubs and not against them.
That the NTSA immediately withdraw from the NRPAI and seek independent recognition from the Irish Sports Council, the Federation of Irish Sports, the Department of Justice and other relevant bodies; but that our withdrawl not be contingent on such recognition.
That the NTSA officially note the passing of one of its founder members, Paddy Ashe, and that it officially apologise to his family and friends for not having made such an official note at the events organised in his memory in the past year.
That the NTSA committee explain the sudden and unprecedented rise in the number of subscribed members of the NTSA immediately prior to the 2006 AGM and the subsequent lack of participation in any NTSA competition during the year by these members.
That the NTSA present a report on the attendance of directors at Committee meetings through the year.
That the consumption of alcohol and other prohibited substances be banned at Director's Meetings of the NTSA.
That the NTSA board members submit seperate written reports for their year's activities.
That the minutes of all NTSA committee meetings be published on the website and made available to all NTSA members with the exception of the AntiDoping and Disciplinary committees, whose meetings should not be held concurrently with other meetings.
That the NTSA seek an immediate review of the ISC Carding Grant system.
That the NTSA end the practise of using NSRA targets for ISSF competitions and either adopt the NSRA rulebook for use with NSRA targets or only run ISSF matches with ISSF targets.
That the NTSA ensure that a shooter's personal coach is given the opportunity to travel abroad as a part of the National Team with the shooter when such a coach exists.
That the NTSA develop a full 18-month plan for International competition, to be reviewed every six months, which will incorporate which matches it intends to send shooters to; how many places will be made available for each match; and what level of funding will be available for those shooters.
That the NTSA appoint a Fundraising Officer and create a Fundraising Subcommittee to be chaired by the Fundraising Officer for the purpose of raising funds for the Association above and beyond those granted to it by the Irish Sports Council through the NRPAI.
That the NTSA appoint a qualified Medical Officer.
That the NTSA report what price was quoted as the consultancy fee for a Medical officer and by whom that quote was issued.
That the NTSA explain to the membership why they are being called to vote on a motion to appoint a children's protection policy this year when the Board voted against a motion to appoint a Children's Officer last year.
That the NTSA report in detail on communications it has received from the Irish Sports Council in regard to Child Protection policy statements.
That the NTSA report in detail on communications it has received from the National Rifle and Pistol Association of Ireland in regard to Child Protection policy statements.
That the NTSA, in light of its motion to amend the Articles of Association to read "The NTSA is fully committed to safeguarding the well being of its members", state in detail what actions it intends to take over the coming year to achieve this goal, and to also list what it sees as threats to the well being of its members.
That the NTSA, in light of its motion to amend the Articles of Association to read "Every individual in the NTSA should at all times, show respect and understanding for members rights" enumerate fully and specifically what the members' rights are.
That the NTSA explain why it did not perform equipment control checks on the National Team's equipment before the 2006 World Championships.
That the NTSA explain why Mark Dennehy was only asked to handle equipment control checks by the NTSA 22 hours before the Team departed for Zagreb.
That the NTSA report in detail on their contacts with the National Association for Modern Pentathlon.
That the NTSA report in detail on their contacts with the Irish Pony Club.
That the NTSA report in detail on their contacts with the Paralympic Council of Ireland.
That older NTSA websites - still extant years after the official NTSA ruling that the targetshootingireland.org website was the sole official NTSA website - be deleted and replaced with automatic redirections to the official website.
That the NTSA issue all of the prizes which it has so far defaulted on distributing.
That the NTSA list in its calendar for the 2006-2007 year dates for both the 2007 AGM and submission deadlines for motions for the 2007 AGM.
That the NTSA explain why, despite the 2005 AGM motion, they failed to publish the agenda of all NTSA committee meetings on the NTSA website at least 3 days before committee meetings.
That the NTSA publish on the NTSA website a detailed agenda of all NTSA committee meetings at least one week in advance.
That the NTSA explain why, despite the 2005 AGM motion, they failed to institute a programme of pistol safety courses for its members.
That the NTSA report on progress made on the 2005 AGM motion to appoint a dedicated cartridge pistol coordinator for smallbore and fullbore pistol events and charge him with the oversight of the reestablishment of pistol shooting in the republic.
That the NTSA explain why, despite the 2005 AGM motion, they failed to publish a monthly newsletter.
That the NTSA report on progress made on the 2005 AGM motion to maintain outdoor and indoor prone rifle shooting averages, rankings and classifications seperately.
That the NTSA explain why, despite the 2005 AGM motion, they failed to appoint representatives of all NTSA clubs to a subcommittee to review the Memorandum and Articles of Association of the NTSA, despite their altering of those Articles in this AGM.
That the NTSA report on progress made on the 2005 AGM motion to institute an internal appeals process for cases where formal complaints are made to the committee.
That the NTSA report on progress made on the 2005 AGM motion to appoint a Ladies' Officer and that they present said officer's annual report.
That the NTSA report on progress made on the 2005 AGM motion to appoint a Collegiate Officer and that they present said officer's annual report.
That the NTSA report on progress made on the 2005 AGM motion to appoint a Development Officer and that they present said officer's annual report.
That the NTSA report on progress made on the 2005 AGM motion to commit to have at least one club-level coach accredited by the NTSA and NCTC in each NTSA club within two years; and that at least one club-level coach be accredited by the NTSA and NCTC in each new NTSA club within two years of the club affiliating to the NTSA.
That the NTSA explain why the planned NTSA club coaches course was not handed off to either Geoff Cooney or Matt Fox, both ISSF-qualified and highly experienced coaches who had helped draft the course syllabus, when Ray Kane was deployed abroad and thus unable to continue work on this course.
That the NTSA report how much was allocated as a budget for public relations in the 2005-2006 year and on what it was spent.
That the NTSA report in detail on their efforts to secure corporate sponsorship for the National Squad.
That the NTSA report on what ethical guidelines for acceptable sponsorship were put in place before efforts began and by whom.
That the NTSA report in detail on the grant application made under the Capital Grants Scheme in accordance with the 2005 AGM motion for the purposes of purchasing equipment that could be used nationally, such as electronic target scoring machines, equipment control gauges and so on.
That the NTSA provide a copy of this Capital Grants Scheme application.
That the NTSA change its membership fees to the following structure:
Club Affiliation fee: ?50 per annum
Individual Membership:
First year, through an NTSA club: free
First year, not through an NTSA club: ?2 student / ?5 adult
Subsequent years: ?2 student / ?5 adult
Optional extras:
Newsletter: ?20 per annum or ?2 per copy
That the NTSA arrange for an insurance scheme to provide insurance cover for its members.

Sparks · 09-09-2006 4:43pm

continued (the numbering has been thrown out of sync by boards.ie's posting I'm afraid) ...
[list=52]
[*]That each NTSA committee position be subject to a term limit of 2 terms, each term to be one olympic cycle.

[*]That the system of registered shoots be abolished and replaced with;
A list of Recognised Shoots whose scores can be used for the purposes of maintaining national averages, rankings and classifications; and
Supported Shoots, one per discipline per NTSA club, where the NTSA pays for all operational costs of the competition from targets to prizes to advertising and the club keeps all entry fees.

[*]That the NTSA institute formal review meetings following all National Championships, International Matches in which the NTSA send Irish shooters to compete, and all Supported Shoots, for the purpose of determining if procedures can be improved upon and to determine if any systemic problems exist which inhibit the shooters' performances. Minutes of these meetings to be made available to all NTSA members via the website.

[*]That the NTSA produce an official event report template for every shooter and team official to complete following all events.

[*]That a maximum wind velocity be set for outdoor matches beyond which scores will not be counted for national ranking purposes.

[*]That the NTSA immediately regularise its position with respect to the International Shooting Sports Federation, the Olympic Council of Ireland and the World Anti-Doping Agency regulations by appointing an Anti-Doping Officer.

[*]That the NTSA discipline coordinators convene subcommittees comprising representatives from each club which shoots their discipline; said representatives to be active shooters at at least club level in that discipline.

[*]That the NTSA create a network of club PROs who are in contact with one another and the national PRO.

[*]That the NTSA schedule seperate 10m Airgun and 50m Rifle National Championships at the end of their respective seasons from next year onwards.

[*]That from next year's AGM, nominees for committee posts must be submitted to the committee prior to the AGM notice being sent to NTSA members; that a deadline for this be made publicly known and listed in the official calendar; and that such candidates be permitted to submit a brief written note (of up to 200 words) regarding why they feel they are the best choice for the post; and that the list of nominees and their submissions be circulated as part of the AGM notice to the NTSA members.

[*]That the NTSA committee explain why it failed to publicly state its goals for the 2005-2006 year and how they planned to achieve these goals.

[*]That the NTSA committee, at its first post-AGM meeting, publicly state its goals for the coming year and how they plan to achieve these goals.

[*]That the NTSA publish the documented procedure by which the selection committee selects the National Team for an event from the shortlist of qualified shooters, including a list of what metrics are used; what the threshold values are in those metrics; what non-shooting criteria are used for selection and what appeals process is available to the athlete.

[*]That the NTSA publish the predictive budget which was used as the basis for the decision to increase the NTSA membership dues; and the list of new services the NTSA intended to use this increase in funding to provide for its members.

[*]That the NTSA publish all information submitted by the NRPAI on the NTSA's behalf to Dail Eireann, Seanad Eireann, their various Committees or the Department of Justice in relation to the Criminal Justice Bill 2004.

[*]That the NTSA cease its consistent slighting of 10m Airgun disciplines.

[*]That the NTSA report on the projects planned to make use of the 22% rise in the NTSA's core funding grant issued this year by the Department of Sport.

[*]That the NTSA publish their grant application form for core funding as submitted to the NRPAI.

[*]That the NTSA publish a report on the 2005 NRPAI AGM, detailing what decisions were made at the AGM, paying particular attention to the following: Individual membership of the NRPAI; The voting and procedural irregularities which invalidated the 2004 NRPAI AGM.

[*]That the NTSA report in detail on its efforts to organise a team for the International University Shooting Championship 2006 (September 4-9, 2006), with particular regard to:
the efforts of the Collegiate Officer;
the communications between the NTSA and the CUSAI; and the timeline for these efforts.

[*]That the NTSA explain why neither notice of nor details about the AGM were posted on the official NTSA website.
[/list]

phantom_lord · 11-09-2006 12:12am

Jaysus, that seems like a full afternoons work is ahead of the attendees.

civdef · 11-09-2006 8:52am

Is is just me or does that organisation look pretty disfunctional?

Sparks · 11-09-2006 9:41am

It's not so much dysfunctional civ, as it is that the current incumbents aren't doing any work. And people's patience has run out. Seriously. 72 motions? The only thing more ridiculous than that is that they have to be put on the agenda. All that stuff should have been handled in the day-to-day running of the NTSA, but wasn't. So now we lose even more time and energy trying to fix stuff that other people volunteered to do and then just didn't bother with, because if we don't, our shooters don't get the opportunities to compete abroad that they deserve.

les45 · 11-09-2006 10:08am

I assume each motion will be debated!

Sparks · 11-09-2006 10:50am

I think we would all assume that les!

rrpc · 11-09-2006 1:08pm

les45 wrote:

I assume each motion will be debated

At 10 minutes a motion, that's 12 hours

les45 · 11-09-2006 1:27pm

I feel sorry for the gentleman that has to take the minutes !

Sparks · 11-09-2006 1:49pm

rrpc wrote:

At 10 minutes a motion, that's 12 hours

Yup.
Like I said, it's ridiculous that it has to come to this. It's not like we didn't try other methods, you know.

rrpc · 11-09-2006 2:36pm

Sparks wrote:

8. That the consumption of alcohol and other prohibited substances be banned at Director's Meetings of the NTSA.

What prohibited substances????

And the last time I checked alcohol was not a prohibited substance (unless you're under age that is).

Sparks · 11-09-2006 2:45pm

The second clause there is because it'd make less sense if it was absent RRPC. Knocking back a few pints before and during the meetings has happened; it shouldn't. These things aren't a social occasion.

rrpc · 11-09-2006 3:12pm

The second clause makes a nonsense of the first one. "other prohibited substances" implies that alcohol is a prohibited substance. In fact it doesn't just imply it, it states it as a fact.

Which it isn't obviously.

rrpc · 11-09-2006 3:16pm

You are also implying that some members of the current committee are drinking during meetings, which as I have pointed out above, is not prohibited, but at the same time is a pretty nasty slur.

I hope (for your sake) you can back it up.

Sparks · 11-09-2006 3:21pm

Valid point rrpc. We'll amend the wording in the AGM from "or other prohibited substances" to "or other, prohibited, substances".

Sparks · 11-09-2006 3:27pm

rrpc wrote:

You are also implying that some members of the current committee are drinking during meetings, which as I have pointed out above, is not prohibited, but at the same time is a pretty nasty slur.
I hope (for your sake) you can back it up.

Actually, I'm stating that in the past members of the committee have drank immediately before and during the meetings. Openly. While sitting across a table from me. One of those members has since left the committee. Others have not.

Look, I'm not a teetotaler and I enjoy a pint as well - but those meetings are meant to be for work, and I never felt that they were an appropriate place to be drinking in. Afterwards, fine, have a few and a good chat, that's a postive thing and could be bloody useful for the organisation - we both know how important informal networking is - but not during, for pete's sake...

rrpc · 11-09-2006 3:44pm

Sparks wrote:

members of the committee have drank immediately before and during the meetings. Openly. While sitting across a table from me.

Ah well, there's your answer then. I'd drink if I had to sit in a meeting with you too

In fact I'd be looking for the other prohibited substances as well

Sparks · 11-09-2006 3:53pm

Maybe rrpc. I've got no illusions about how difficult it can be to work with me when we're at cross purposes (I made the mistake of thinking the NTSA committee was enthusiastic about progressing the sport but were being stymied by a lack of manpower, which is why I agreed when asked to help in the first place, on both occasions - that's where the cross purposes came from) - but the saving grace for those poor unfortunates suffering from my acerbic and unpleasant company would be that there's no reason they had to be there. It's voluntary.

So if you don't enjoy it, why the hell would you be sitting there, purporting to run ISSF shooting in Ireland? And what I truly fail to comprehend - why would you sit there if you didn't want to work? Do people actually go forward for these roles thinking that they'll get to sit round a table in the pub for the next year yakking with their mates about the good old days and how it'd be so much better now if only we had more money and more ranges and less gardai regulations and so on and so forth?

rrpc · 11-09-2006 4:00pm

Sparks wrote:

Yup.
Like I said, it's ridiculous that it has to come to this.

So you are saying that proposing 72 motions that can never be debated fully or even partially given the limited time available, makes things less ridiculous?

Seems more like a party political broadcast to me. :eek:

rrpc · 11-09-2006 4:14pm

Sparks wrote:

Maybe rrpc. I've got no illusions about how difficult it can be to work with me when we're at cross purposes

Really???? that's a damnable accuastion!

the NTSA committee was enthusiastic about progressing the sport but were being stymied by a lack of manpower

Isn't that still the case? Weren't a number of posts not filled at the last AGM, due to a lack of response from the members. AFAIK, there were a number of posts which were agreed to be added a propos of WTSC motions last year but that nobody volunteered to fill them.

but the saving grace for those poor unfortunates suffering from my acerbic and unpleasant company would be that there's no reason they had to be there. It's voluntary.

Isn't that exactly the problem? not enough volunteers, and therefore too much work spread around too few bodies.

So if you don't enjoy it, why the hell would you be sitting there, purporting to run ISSF shooting in Ireland? And what I truly fail to comprehend - why would you sit there if you didn't want to work?

Don't be so fupping pompous, I make a joke and you start throwing that around as a reason. And having a pint and working are not mutually exclusive, just as being at work and working are not the same thing.

Sparks · 11-09-2006 4:57pm

So you are saying that proposing 72 motions that can never be debated fully or even partially given the limited time available, makes things less ridiculous?

I'm saying that the fact that this is the only avenue left open by which this can be pursued is ridiculous. I'm saying that we tried other avenues, honestly and in good faith, and either nothing happened, or we got burned for it. So now we need everything done formally and officially. Which is a ridiculous place to be in, but what are we meant to do, ignore problems and hope they'll go away? Keep trying what we've been trying for four or five years now and see if something will change before our juniors get so old that they're bringing their kids to the range to train for the junior team?
RRPC, both you and I both know there are problems and if you look at it from the point of view of people trying to win medals in ISSF matches (and that's a fair viewpoint for NTSA members), we're in dire straits. For years, we've needed changes, and nothing has been done. Look at the situation we're in right now. Every shooter that ever shot in the Olympics for Ireland has walked away from the NTSA in disgust at this point. Northern Irish shooters haven't shown up to an NTSA match in significant numbers in years, in fact right now there's only one name seen even close to semi-regularly down here. The NTSA's only international shooters right now come out of WTSC, are trained by WTSC, most are equipped by WTSC, and all are supported by WTSC (WTSC paid half the costs of sending the Irish team abroad to the World Championships in Zagreb this year, for example, because the entire team came from our club). If we didn't do that, the NTSA wouldn't have a team and our shooters wouldn't get to shoot abroad. And those trips abroad aren't anything to crow about either - the things that went wrong with the logistics and team management in Zagreb this year were unbelievable. No equipment control done by the NTSA, even though for years they've known they needed to do that, and even after Declan was crucified by equipment control in Moscow because noone thought to check his gear before he went over. The NTSA doesn't even have the gear to do the testing, even though they do have a qualified judge to do the tests if they had the tools. They handled it instead by asking me to do the equipment control for the National team less than 24 hours before they got on the plane to Zagreb. That's ridiculous. And it's not like it was the only lack of notice given - those going got less than a month's notice before going to the biggest match in the ISSF calendar, equalled only by the Olympic Games. That's not on. How realisitic is it to not even give provisional, "okay, see if you can get the time off from work" notice? I mean, can you take a week off work with that little notice? I know I can't! The juniors going over didn't have that problem, I know - but they got so little notice that they couldn't get their innoculations before flying over. Which is a horrendous state of affairs. (And now the NTSA wants to say they look after the young people in it's Articles? I wonder what changed?)

And it's not like we're any better at home. The scores in the National Championships have fallen year by year since this ridiculous new format was introduced over the explicit, formal objections of several people (myself included) and clubs, but every year, despite the match being a shambles with no manpower to run it and shooters who try to compete in all the events exhausted from travel (Declan's said so in public, so has Richard and Daniel and all the others who've tried all three rifle events), it’s hailed as a success by head office. Our seniors haven’t won a medal internationally in a decade or more, and yet we don’t change anything to do with coaching or training. We have no coaches, but we turn down applications from volunteers to go to ISSF coaching courses, even when they volunteer to pay their own way, purely on personal reasons (yes, I was there for that decision). We’re great at planning - we can draft paper plans up to beat the band - but ever actually getting anything done? Forget it. That club coaches course has been at the almost-fully-planned-nearly-ready-to-go stage for how long now? And what happened to Gerry Power's club coaches course from '99? Hell, we can't even shoot on the correct targets for the rulebook - we shoot ISSF matches on NSRA targets despite there being an ISSF rule against it, and we shoot a quasi-codified set of "NTSA rules" on those targets. I mean, there's nothing wrong with shooting on the 3-card system, under NSRA rules. It's better for those training for Bisley week, for example. But to shoot on 3-card when training for an ISSF world cup, that's ridiculous. It's like training for the 100m hurdles when you're going to run the 4x400m relay race.

Look, I'm not telling you anything new RRPC, and you know it. Something's got to give.

Really???? that's a damnable accuastion!

"We" was probably the wrong pronoun to use...

Isn't that still the case?

No, not really. The problem wasn't manpower. We had a full committee in '04 and an almost-full one in '05. The problem is the committment to work - and by that I mean to work with clubs in good faith, to try new approaches when the old ones don't work, to listen and try to act like the service industry company that they actually, by definition, are - on the part of the committee both as a whole and on an individual basis.

Weren't a number of posts not filled at the last AGM, due to a lack of response from the members.

More because of two reasons:
1) People weren't told volunteers were needed, nor were volunteers sought out.
2) Those who were actively working towards fielding a serious international ISSF team had developed a very strong degree of skepticism about the NTSA because of things like the Register of Members being padded with the siblings, wives and even parents of board members. I know almost everyone I talked to in the past year has said that if they'd stack the books like that, what's the point in even trying? Better to do something outside the NTSA.

Isn't that exactly the problem? not enough volunteers, and therefore too much work spread around too few bodies.

I'm not sure that you can say that that's the problem when the NTSA itself said it didn't need more people (I can pass you on the minutes where they decided not to ask an ISSF-qualified coach to help out if you want).

Don't be so fupping pompous

I'm not being pompous, I'm being annoyed. I used to go to some fair lengths to get to those meetings, and did a fair bit of prep work beforehand because I thought it'd help; only to find I was showing up to watch a social outing of drinking buddies, who then blamed shooters and clubs for insufficient committment as a reason for our not winning medals. And I wasn't alone in this.

rrpc · 11-09-2006 7:31pm

The NTSA's only international shooters right now come out of WTSC, are trained by WTSC, most are equipped by WTSC, and all are supported by WTSC (WTSC paid half the costs of sending the Irish team abroad to the World Championships in Zagreb this year, for example, because the entire team came from our club). The NTSA doesn't even have the gear to do the testing, even though they do have a qualified judge to do the tests if they had the tools. They handled it instead by asking me to do the equipment control for the National team less than 24 hours before they got on the plane to Zagreb. That's ridiculous

That circle doesn't square. You're saying on the one hand that WTSC provided the squad, the equipment, and half the finances and then blame the NTSA for not organising equipment control even though you know they don't have the testing gear, which WTSC do have. In the interests of fairness and in the interests of your fellow shooters (namely Declan) would it not have behoved you to offer to do equipment control given that you had a months notice as to who was going?

rrpc · 11-09-2006 7:56pm

I'm saying that the fact that this is the only avenue left open by which this can be pursued is ridiculous. I'm saying that we tried other avenues, honestly and in good faith, and either nothing happened, or we got burned for it. So now we need everything done formally and officially.

That's not doing things formally and oficially. The scattergun approach you have taken is designed primarily to halt all progress and tie everyone up in dicussing nonsensical non-motions like "Is this the 2006 AGM?" or "Why is the NTSA slighting air shooters?" (that one's a bit like "when did you stop beating your wife").

All this stuff is divisive and unnecessary, right now I would have no intention of ever serving on the NTSA committee, it just wouldn't be worth it. I have had my differences (of which you well know) with past committees, but there are some with whom I have had long standing friendships, and quite honestly I don't think they deserve the kind of diatribe contined in your list of proposals.

Some of the stuff is quite insulting. Should I point out to our chairman or our chief range officer that they should no longer be members of the NTSA seeing as they don't attend registered shoots anymore? Or myself for that matter seeing as I don't have the time?

Slighting air shooters my ass

tireur · 11-09-2006 8:36pm

Sparks wrote:

NTSA AGM 2006
Motions for the Agenda

From the sensible club:
That all of the motions listed by Sparks on Boards.ie are treated with the dignity and respect they deserve,i.e. that the first motion debated will be to eliminate all of the aforementioned motions from further discussion.

civdef · 11-09-2006 8:40pm

So, when's the split then?

tireur · 11-09-2006 9:05pm

I thought that happened when Sparks left the NTSA committee?.

Sparks · 11-09-2006 9:53pm

Sorry Tireur, but this isn't just me. It's a darn sight bigger than that. Besides, what matter is it to you? Do you shoot in ISSF competitions? Do you need or get anything from the NTSA?

Sparks · 11-09-2006 10:00pm

rrpc wrote:

That circle doesn't square.

Yes it does, unless you're suggesting I take it on myself to appoint myself as an official Irish Team equipment control judge.
Which wouldn't exactly be something that the NTSA would particularly enjoy under other circumstances, I think.
No, sorry RRPC, the NTSA does not get to play at being NGB until there's work to do. If you're the NGB and you say who goes and who doesn't, and you set the rules, then you've also got to fulfill your responsibilities to those you're setting the rules for.

rrpc wrote:

That's not doing things formally and oficially.

Yes it is. There's not one issue in there that we've not tried to deal with informally and discretely as head office would have liked, but in each case we saw either lip service followed by no action, or outright belligerence. This is the only avenue left now.

Some of the stuff is quite insulting.

You should walk a mile or two in our shoes before thinking that.

Should I point out to our chairman or our chief range officer that they should no longer be members of the NTSA seeing as they don't attend registered shoots anymore? Or myself for that matter seeing as I don't have the time?

Where on earth are you getting that one from?

Slighting air shooters my ass

On the contrary, it's a continual act by the NTSA. It's not that I think they're isolated in this - you see the "fullbore looks down on smallbore looks down on airgun" routine in just about every country that has target shooting as an established sport - but it's not necessary quite frankly, and I see no reason that we should accept it.

Sparks · 11-09-2006 10:04pm

tireur wrote:

From the sensible club:
That all of the motions listed by Sparks on Boards.ie are treated with the dignity and respect they deserve,i.e. that the first motion debated will be to eliminate all of the aforementioned motions from further discussion.

I may have reproduced the list here tireur, but the fact is that the list is a document submitted not by me but by the Wilkinstown club, which comprises a third of the membership and virtually all the top competitive shooters. Only 50m prone didn't see a medal go to a WTSC shooter in this year's Nationals, despite the low scores and daft format. So you tell me - if one of the largest, and the most active, and from the point of view of winning medals, the most successful club in the NTSA cannot use this avenue to bring to the table concerns that it has tried to resolve through every other informal and formal means available within the association, whence should they go?

And why would you seek to deny them this avenue?

Sparks · 11-09-2006 10:09pm

civdef wrote:

So, when's the split then?

Everyone resorts to that to make a joke of it, I notice, especially those that don't want the split to happen. I'd much rather wonder - why the split?

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Ntsa Agm 2006

Comments