Driving Commercial as Private

ballooba

Some unscrupulous peeps have suggested that I buy a commercial jeep and drive it as my private car.

Is this only possible if one has a legitimate business use for the vehicle?

Henry Ford III

I reckon it would be fine if you put private tax and insurance on it.

Anan1

You'd still be stuck driving a commercial jeep instead of a car, though.;)

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

ballooba wrote:

Some unscrupulous peeps have suggested that I buy a commercial jeep and drive it as my private car.

Is this only possible if one has a legitimate business use for the vehicle?

why not get a jeep with seats in the back and tax it as a commercial...best of both worlds...
or one of those maxi cabs/crew cabs types.

tbh i know a lot of people who own 4x4s some with only two seats and some with more and nobody but nobody has them taxed privately
you would want to be a bit stupid not to tax any 4x4 as a commercial.

dubstub

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

why not get a jeep with seats in the back and tax it as a commercial...best of both worlds...
or one of those maxi cabs/crew cabs types.

tbh i know a lot of people who own 4x4s some with only two seats and some with more and nobody but nobody has them taxed privately
you would want to be a bit stupid not to tax any 4x4 as a commercial.

You cannot legally tax a passenger 4x4 as a commercial vechicle.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

dubstub wrote:

You cannot legally tax a passenger 4x4 as a commercial vechicle.

ya ya, its a bit like the provisional driving alone law...never enforced

are you saying all the crew/cab 4X4s are taxed privately???

Anan1

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

are you saying all the crew/cab 4X4s are taxed privately???

No, he's saying that you cannot legally tax a passenger 4x4 as a commercial vehicle.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Anan1 wrote:

No, he's saying that you cannot legally tax a passenger 4x4 as a commercial vehicle.

sorry i didn't mean to direct that question to you it was meant for "dubstub"

but I'm sure somebody somewhere does want to listen to what you have to say... its just not me. in fact can you put me on your ignore list and i will put you on mine.

so back to you "dubstub" and sorry about yer man...i have no idea where he came from.

are all the crew(passengers)/cab 4X4s taxed privately???

dubstub

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

are all the crew(passengers)/cab 4X4s taxed privately???

Probably not.
However, even if you manage to get the Motor Tax office to accept the RF100 form for a vehicle that is not registered as a commercial vehicle, you still have the problem that the tax discs are a different colour for commercial vehicles and would be inviting any Garda to bring you up on it at a checkpoint. And they probably will.

ballooba

So what is involved in registering it as commercial?

Does it have to be owned by a business?

declanoneill

Forgive the stupid question, but how are company cars taxed then? Assuming said car has back seats.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

dubstub wrote:

Probably not.


tax discs are a different colour for commercial vehicles and would be inviting any Garda to bring you up on it at a checkpoint. And they probably will.

i can tell you definitely not...

ya you would think so wouldn't ya...and also something that is even more obvious than the colour to a guard is no NCT cert,
well this is from my own personal experience, nobody i know have ever been questioned about commercial/private tax/insurance when stopped.
and I'm not only talking about the crew/cabs, quit a few of my friends have the full passenger 4X4s and not a bother...drive on

alias no.9

dubstub wrote:

You cannot legally tax a passenger 4x4 as a commercial vechicle.

Any estate car can be taxed as a commercial, all passenger 4x4's are classified as estates. The legality of doing so when the intended purpose of the vehicle is not commercial, is a different question.

dubstub

ballooba wrote:

So what is involved in registering it as commercial?

Does it have to be owned by a business?

AFAIK, and I'm sure Squiggles will correct me, but when the jeep is converted to a commercial vehicle and the seats are ripped out, the jeep is then registered as a van. The RF100 form that you then send to the Motor Tax Office on first registration of the vehicle then has the vehicle type listed as a goods vehicle. That is the only way they will give you the commercial rate.
It doesn't need to be owned by a business. Company cars are taxed at the normal rate. It is only goods vehicles that get the commercial rate - €252 for up to a 3 tonne (I think) van.

tred

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

i can tell you definitely not...

ya you would think so wouldn't ya...and also something that is even more obvious than the colour to a guard is no NCT cert,
well this is from my own personal experience, nobody i know have ever been questioned about commercial/private tax/insurance when stopped.
and I'm not only talking about the crew/cabs, quit a few of my friends have the full passenger 4X4s and not a bother...drive on

The car will be registered in the state as a commercial or as a passenger. How can u go in with a passenger 4.4 and say its a commercial is beyond me. Unless ur bringing in the log book of a different jeep, which is fraud and entails a hefty fine and possible sentence.

dubstub

alias no.9 wrote:

Any estate car can be taxed as a commercial,

.... if they have no back seats and no back windows.

ballooba

So as I expected I will lose the back seats and windows if i tax as commercial.

But I will save circa €650 p.a. on Motor Tax.

It's tempting but will require some thought.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

alias no.9 wrote:

Any estate car can be taxed as a commercial, all passenger 4x4's are classified as estates. The legality of doing so when the intended purpose of the vehicle is not commercial, is a different question.

tred wrote:

How can u go in with a passenger 4.4 and say its a commercial is beyond me. Unless ur bringing in the log book of a different jeep, which is fraud and entails a hefty fine and possible sentence.

so who is right... i don't know, but me thinks alias no.9 is... because one of the guys i know doing this is a guard and part time farmer and i don't think he would go down the road of using a different log book and committing fraud.

dubstub

You'll also have to pay for the conversion and €50 VRT to re-register the vehicle.

ballooba

Might drive it as a passenger for a year. See how I get on and if I feel the saving is worth it I will buy a commercial.

Fey!

In 2002 there was a loophole for crewcabs which allowed them to be registered commercial and paying commercial VRT, which also allows them to be taxed commercially. That loophole has since been closed, but the vehicle registered at the time are still taxed commercially and therefore do not require an NCT cert as they get a DOE each year instead, which is required to tax it but does not get displayed on the windscreen - this is 100% accurate, as our crewcab for work is currently going through it's DOE so that we can tax it!!

IIRC, you may insure a commercial vehicle privately if you want to (not 100%, as ours has commercial insurance but allows us to carry passengers in all properly secured (5 including drivers) seats, which all have seatbelt fittings).

As mentioned earlier, some estate vehicles may be taxed commercially if they have commercial insurance, but I think you must go to some extremes to prove their usage (not 100%, but I did see that somewhere a few years ago. May have since changed).

Putting back seats back into a converted vehicle is a no-no.

tvr

How many seats to the Disco have ?

As its seems abit of a bargain in a commerical format . Can I just walk in and buy one because even with 2 seats its still 15000 saving.

Land Rover Discovery 3
TdV6 S Commercial 5Dr 39,600inc VAT @ 21%

Also could I import one for just 50 euro VRT . Is that correct? and insure it privately.

This thread just made purchasing a new car more interesting?


Also if that doesnt work . Anyone up for putting up 100 euro each . If we get 500 boardies doing that we can set up a Belfast Based Company . Get over the vat threshold etc and each buy ourselves some Disco 3 ex vat which will be even cheaper for our 500 plus irish sales force. I dont mind chippin in for the accountant each year for publishing accounts. The mods can pick up the lawyers charges???

Get a mod to sort it out maybe??

dubstub

tvr wrote:

How many seats to the Disco have ?

As its seems abit of a bargain in a commerical format . Can I just walk in and buy one because even with 2 seats its still 15000 saving.

Land Rover Discovery 3
TdV6 S Commercial 5Dr 39,600inc VAT @ 21%

Also could I import one for just 50 euro VRT . Is that correct? and insure it privately.

This thread just made purchasing a new car more interesting?


Also if that doesnt work . Anyone up for putting up 100 euro each . If we get 500 boardies doing that we can set up a Belfast Based Company . Get over the vat threshold etc and each buy ourselves some Disco 3 ex vat which will be even cheaper for our 500 plus irish sales force. I dont mind chippin in for the accountant each year for publishing accounts. The mods can pick up the lawyers charges???

Get a mod to sort it out maybe??

I can see the Revenue now... ok, so we're writing 100 checks for 6900 each for VAT reclaims from a company which has never traded but needs 100 jeeps for its Irish "sales force"...

No problems, where do I sign?!

tvr

dubstub wrote:

I can see the Revenue now... ok, so we're writing 100 checks for 6900 each for VAT reclaims from a company which has never traded but needs 100 jeeps for its Irish "sales force"...

No problems, where do I sign?!

Yeah it should be ok as its the British Tax Office . They would be so glad to be getting any business with hundreds of jeeps operating in the north . Business brings prosperity. They probably would even look twice.

Or we could do a SMART Telecom in Ireland if you want . Have a couple of hundred commercial jeeps and a small army of sales people , and lose about 25 million a year if you want and operate out of two housing estates put advertise nationally . We could set up a SMART IE S NI . That should put revenue right of the trail. Just sivin of the money back into our accounts and write it off as a massive lose?

DeirdreB

Can anyone explain if it is possible to covert a private jeep, registered in 2003, to a commercial vehicle?

We can't get insurance on our private jeep to tow a twin axle trailer and have the following choice:

- trade the private jeep in for a commercial jeep and lose about €5k;
- try to re-register the private jeep to a commercial.

I don't know if it's possible and if it is, how do you go about it?

Thanks

maidhc

I have been studying tax for a while now.

You come to learn early on that the Revenue are lots of things, but definitely not stupid.

If driving a 4x4 van is for you, then go for it. You will make a saving, but remember it is less useful for carrying people (legally) than a Ford Ka! Don't forget you will get a roasting at the toll bridges too!

Classic cars are by far the most tax advantageous way of motoring. They are taxed for BIK at their value at the date of first registration (if your employer pays you in e-types!), and don't incur CGT when sold. Add to this the fact road tax is negligible. They also have style, something which few 4x4s have.

DeirdreB

It's not my intention to avoid tax - I simply can't get insurance on my private vehicle to tow a twin-axle trailer, so I need either to buy a commercial vehicle or to convert my private vehicle to a commercial one.

bkehoe

Re the toll bridges - just get an Easypass and register as a private vehicle. Know lots of people doing this with commercial jeeps.

Wishbone Ash

Fey! wrote:

IIRC, you may insure a commercial vehicle privately if you want to (not 100%, as ours has commercial insurance but allows us to carry passengers in all properly secured (5 including drivers) seats, which all have seatbelt fittings)

A commercial vehicle can be insured privately but, in my experience, it entails being asked loads of questions, none of the big companies will do it and it costs a lot more. It also has to be taxed privately.

ballooba

I know the COO in EazyPass he says they take pictures of people doing this and they will cancel their account. You will get away with it for a while though.

bkehoe

Unless they stop people, go out and look inside their jeeps, I don't see how they could tell whether it was a commercial or passenger with most modern ones.

All the new Discoverys, for example, look like the normal passenger versions with privacy glass in the back. Other newer commefcial jeeps seem to be doing the same thing now rather than replacing the glass with a panel.

On the topic of the cameras, I was accidently using my Easypass with the wrong registration registered for months (forgot to update from the UK reg to the Irish reg when I paid the vrt)! :eek: Nothing said, only realised by accident.