Driving Commercial as Private

stifz

DeirdreB wrote:

It's not my intention to avoid tax - I simply can't get insurance on my private vehicle to tow a twin-axle trailer, so I need either to buy a commercial vehicle or to convert my private vehicle to a commercial one.

I don't understand why you can't legally pull a twin axle trailer with a private jeep?? In terms of safety there is no difference in the vehicle towing capacity? That makes absolutely no sense at all??


A general point:
I've become aware of 'farming jeeps' being able to tax commercial but leave the seats in? Anyone know how they do this? Also i have come across jeeps in the past taxed commercial yet have rear seats?? If you need the DOE each year to tax the jeep then surely the seating wells have to be welded over (by law) so again how do you have rear seats??

Confused?

Mc-BigE

The revenues definition of a commercial vehicle is that the carrying (or flat area) space behind the front seats(back seats for cab-crew) must be larger (I think) than the passenger space, which pretty much rules out ALL 4X4 passenger vehicles /SUV's etc but not cab crews because of the pickup section.
And the nail in the coffin is that all rear seats (except cab crew) must be removed and anchor points for rear seat belts must be cut off.

If you want to drive a private vehicle as a commercial that’s your business, but I wouldn't like to try to explain to my insurance company’s inspector in a crash why my private vehicle hasn't got private road tax, and in the case of 4 year old private vehicles, a valid NCT certificate. And as per the legality of the insurance policy, I wouldn’t like to speculate.

Some insurance companies have already copped onto this so it’s only a matter of time before they all start doing it:
Have a look at the small print in www.Allianzdirect.ie website:

“Assumption Details

You and your Partner
Reside in the Republic of Ireland.
Have driving records free from accidents, claims and convictions in the last 5 years.
Have not been refused insurance by any insurer or had special terms imposed by an insurer (your previous insurer must be an EU insurer).
Have not any medical condition e.g. diabetes, heart conditions etc.
You’re Car Is registered in your name in the Republic of Ireland and you are the main driver and the car is taxed privately.

Value is less than EUR 70,000, is not more than 15 years old and is not a car vanette, kit car, sports car, convertible or gti. It is not left hand drive and it has not been modified.”

Added: There's also the matter of DOE test centre's giving DOE cert. to vehicles which are clearly private passenger vehicles, year after year.

It’s all too easy to tick the "Commercial" box in the RF100 form when the car is new and the DOE don't seem to be enforcing this in the DOE test centres or the Motor tax office and are losing a lot of revenue in the process.

knighted_1

to insure a jeep or any car for that matter commercially u must have commercial insurance-no insurance company will do this on a private car

to reclaim vat u must be vat registered -revenue send u out a legally binding questionaire to do with ur transport activities (if u havnt alreadty recieved it u will soon )i didnt fill mine out and got a visit -not worth the hassle -plus any strokes or loopholes u pull will normally nullify ur insurance -so for a saving of 650 euros a year its not worth the hassle

afaik u can pull a twin axle trailer ie horse box on a private car but u have to do a different test then upgrade ur insurance

if u think u can fool gaurds or think that the law is not enforced ask most truckers or haulage operators about the customs officers that are on most major roads specifically targeting commercial reg/taxed vehicles for the purpose of lost revenue thru illigal desiel or taxed in wrong weight class -its a revenue stream for them

The tax man

maidhc wrote:

Don't forget you will get a roasting at the toll bridges too!
.

I've yet to see a 4X4,commercial or not,being charged commercial rates.
They only pay €1.80:mad:
Even the sign they had in the booths with pictures of small vans+car/vans stating they had to pay €3.10, they never mentioned any commercial jeeps.

stifz

Sorry im going off the point slightly here. I've a 20ft twin axle trailer for a boat. I have questioned the validity of my insurance while towing and was told it's fine to tow such a thing. I'm cover for the damage to other cars no my own nor the trailer or boat. Yet the boat insurance covers the boat & trailer.

Can someone clarify why anyone has difficulty insuring a vehicle to tow a twin axle braked trailer? I've never heard of this before and worry it maybe some angle they would use should anything happens while towing the boat??

thanks

cormac_byrne

maidhc wrote:

Classic cars are by far the most tax advantageous way of motoring. They are taxed for BIK at their value at the date of first registration (if your employer pays you in e-types!), and don't incur CGT when sold. Add to this the fact road tax is negligible. They also have style, something which few 4x4s have.

What about a classic LandRover?
I have one insured with AIG through First Ireland.
The policy does NOT exclude towing.

Cars newer than March '74 in the UK are cheap as they don't qualify as classics there. Get one older than '77 (i.e. 30 years old) and pay only €50 VRT, plus €42 per year road tax. Would probably want one with upgraded engine & brakes to be doing towing.

hi5

Passanger vehicles can be taxed commercialy,but you must prove its been used only for commmercial reasons,like bringing building workers to sites ,etc,there are grey areas unlike VRT which is black and white.

Mc-BigE

knighted_1 wrote:

to insure a jeep or any car for that matter commercially u must have commercial insurance-no insurance company will do this on a private car

to reclaim vat u must be vat registered -revenue send u out a legally binding questionaire to do with ur transport activities (if u havnt alreadty recieved it u will soon )i didnt fill mine out and got a visit -not worth the hassle -plus any strokes or loopholes u pull will normally nullify ur insurance -so for a saving of 650 euros a year its not worth the hassle

afaik u can pull a twin axle trailer ie horse box on a private car but u have to do a different test then upgrade ur insurance

if u think u can fool gaurds or think that the law is not enforced ask most truckers or haulage operators about the customs officers that are on most major roads specifically targeting commercial reg/taxed vehicles for the purpose of lost revenue thru illigal desiel or taxed in wrong weight class -its a revenue stream for them

I know of a person who bought a private vehicle with back seats, paid his VRT like a normal private car, so no VAT claimed back (no nasty questionnaires to fill out) then when it came to taxing the car, he ticked the "goods" box on the RF100 form (honest mistake if caught, woops!), went to his local DOE test centre and got a DOE cert. (no questions asked, or else he knows someone in there, I don’t know). Then he applied for Private insurance on a "private" vehicle(some insurance co's don't ask the question in my earlier post) and then went to the Motor tax office with his insurance Cert, DOE cert, and they give him commercial road tax 253euro a saving of 1100 a year (if you had a 3L jeep). He's been doing this for the last 4 years; no one has questioned him in the DOE test centre, Motor Tax office, Insurance Company.

Which of the above are wrong, the Driver? The DOE? Revenue? Insurance Co?

IMO there all I the wrong for letting this happen for 4 years in a row, none of them seem to be talking to each other (except the driver!)
The DOE/Motor tax office thinks the vehicle is commercial, the VRO office thinks the vehicle is private, the Insurance co. thinks its private, and the DOE test centre seems to be ignoring the fact that the vehicle has rear seats, glass windows on the side, rear seat belts.

Blue850

cormac_byrne wrote:

What about a classic LandRover?
I have one insured with AIG through First Ireland.
The policy does NOT exclude towing.

Cars newer than March '74 in the UK are cheap as they don't qualify as classics there. Get one older than '77 (i.e. 30 years old) and pay only €50 VRT, plus €42 per year road tax. Would probably want one with upgraded engine & brakes to be doing towing.

Or if you don't mind the fuel bills one of those 30+ year old Range Rovers 'rebuilt with 1992 4 door body etc', tax and insure as vintage. I've seen one advertised recently with an Izuzu 3.1 diesel engine fitted