Choose an idiot to lead the PDs

Victor

freddyfreeload wrote:

Now... what's for dessert?

Lucious Liz

Tricity Bendix

freddyfreeload wrote:

That's kind of my point. What they giveth with their mealy mouths they taketh away with their pens. In McDowell's case what he says to the camera is rather belied by his track record: Citizenship Bill, the misrepresentation that fuelled it and his penchant for draconian deportation tactics.

I'll accept that the Citizenship was supported by some rather unsavoury characters, but I wouldn't blame McDowell for that. His reasons for holding the referendum were not in any way racist. It was unfortunate that the referendum seemingly gave succour to the anti-immigration lobby, but I wouldn't say it was inherintly an anti-immigration Bill. Rather, it was introduced to keep us in line with the rest of Europe.

Could they have done otherwise having endorsed the Nice Treaty?

Well, only two other countries acted the same as us, so I think it could very easily have been done differently.

And I think, as has been implied, that being pro-cheap labour is hardly the same as being pro-immigration.

Its not only about unskilled and 'cheap' labour, although that is a large and important part. Its also about attracting the best and brightest here to live, work and contribute to Irish society.

MontgomeryClift

b.ie curious wrote:

Its not only about unskilled and 'cheap' labour, although that is a large and important part. Its also about attracting the best and brightest here to live, work and contribute to Irish society.

But we don't get the 'best and brightest.' Just because Poland loses an engineering graduate, doesn't mean we get an engineer. We just get low wage workers. It's cheap labour - Bottom rung immigration.

freddyfreeload

b.ie curious wrote:

I'll accept that the Citizenship was supported by some rather unsavoury characters, but I wouldn't blame McDowell for that. His reasons for holding the referendum were not in any way racist. It was unfortunate that the referendum seemingly gave succour to the anti-immigration lobby, but I wouldn't say it was inherintly an anti-immigration .

So you wouldn't say that he (as Justice Minister) proposed the referendum in any way, or drafted it, or rushed it through, or selected the rather divisive date, or over-egged the opinions of our maternity hospital heads, or will be likely to claim it as a feather in his cap when he campaigns at the next election?

b.ie curious wrote:

Rather, it was introduced to keep us in line with the rest of Europe

And out of line with international human rights law.

Though I think the wish to close a constitutional loophole was more pressing on McDowell and Co, than a penchant for EU harmonisation. If the latter was so crucial we'd be amending our corporation tax levels.

ff

freddyfreeload

Victor wrote:

Lucious Liz

With whipped or ice-cream, Sir?

Tricity Bendix

So you wouldn't say that he (as Justice Minister) proposed the referendum in any way, or drafted it,

I don't think there was anything wrong with the way it was drafted. It does what it was meant to do.

or rushed it through

There certainly wasn't a lack of debate! Both sides got a fair airing of their views.

or selected the rather divisive date

That really doesn't hold water. McDowell was the public face of a Bill that was passed by an overwhelming majority of Irish people. Meanwhile, his own party lost council seats around the country. The issue was above mere party politics.

Though I think the wish to close a constitutional loophole was more pressing on McDowell and Co, than a penchant for EU harmonisation. If the latter was so crucial we'd be amending our corporation tax levels.

I wouldn't suggest that the referendum was held just to show how much we love the EU. Rather, Ireland came under pressure to change its constitution as Irish citizenship automatically gives people european citizenship. So it makes sense that our European overlords would want to protect their borders.

Anyway, its Europe that needs to amend its corporation tax levels;)

freddyfreeload

I still reckon he'll campaign on it as an example of personal success. And pitch it how you like, it's still not pro-immigration. And the fact that the majority supported it, and identify McDowell as its architect, is both the reason he'll make a big deal of it and a reason the PD's may now attract more voters.

b.ie curious wrote:

Anyway, its Europe that needs to amend its corporation tax levels

Sure if they did that we'd just halve ours

ff

Cork

Anyway, its Europe that needs to amend its corporation tax levels

It is - low coperation rates has worked for this country.

There is freedom of movement of labour within the EU. Some TDs need to accept this.

Pet Rabbits 40 million poles comment was absurd.

McDowell always behaved responsibly. People from Eastern Europe are making a massive contribution to our economy.

Sgt. Sensible

freddyfreeload wrote:

Sure if they did that we'd just halve ours

ff

Yup, and then what?