Junior Cert Maths is too easy!

enda1

Religion is a leaving cert exam now!!! Thats ridiculus!!!!!!
How can you have an exam on such subjective nonscense.

Anyways, once you get through elaving cert you will realise its NOT all about the points. Points are forgiotten about about a week into college. Choose subjects that your interested in and that you feel will benefit toy in later life (course, job etc.).

As regards the JC. I remember the gap not being too bad. Has the JC course changed since 2000? I know your allowed use calculators now (which is silly i think).

What was that question in the JC paper that was so bad? (Just curious)

philologos

I'm going to just say two words (regarding the first 2 lines of the last post)...

how ignorant

enda1

What are you referring to as ignorant?

oRlyYaRly

enda1 wrote:

Anyways, once you get through elaving cert you will realise its NOT all about the points. Points are forgiotten about about a week into college. Choose subjects that your interested in and that you feel will benefit toy in later life (course, job etc.).

They're only forgotten about a week into college if you get the points for a course you like.

And I think you should be allowed to use a calculator. Doing tax and stuff without a calculator would just be a waste of time. And the less said about log tables the better!

philologos

enda1 wrote:

What are you referring to as ignorant?

How is religion nonsense billions of people practise religions each day, it has huge influences both politically and in the human life. Even agnosticism and atheism are studied in Religion. It would also help people learn tolerance in a multi-faith society. Its very essay based and is actually a very long course.

Victor

spurious wrote:

According to the SEC figures, 59,340 sat Junior Cert. (non-external candidates) in 2003 and the Leaving Cert. figure for the same group (2005) was 51,169.

Obviously we can't tell from that who did or didn't sit HL Maths and some adjustment should be made for TY, but that gives a rough fall-out rate between JC and LC of the order of 13%. Many people still don't sit the Leaving Cert. though figures are falling.

Birth rates vary from year to year, so the 13% drop may not be accurate

spurious

Yes of course 13% may not be accurate, but it gives an idea of the drop between JC and LC. There is a constant steady drop of just short of 10% between national 1st year enrolment and JC candidates too, despite stay at school initiatives and the like.

Boards.ie may not reflect it, as it is mainly made up of people with internet access and a computer, but there is a sizeable group of people out there who do not achieve at all within the education system, or achieve at a low level.

I just wanted to remind people of that, especially on a day when so many boards.ie people seem to have done so well in the JC. Don't take your ability and achievements for granted. Congratulations.

rjt

JSK 252 wrote:

I would definetly agree that we have a high standard of maths. The GCSE maths in The UK is of a lower standard. They only test one type of maths but i cant think of the word. Actually it has been proven that the junior certificate higher level maths exam is one of the highest standard of maths for our age group in the world. I dont want to hear anything about the chinese or the japanese but its a FACT.

Well, the Irish secondary education system as a whole is thought of as one of the best in the world (and gives a more broad education than most of its international counterparts). However, in terms of maths, although our course covers is indeed better than a lot of those abroad (and teaches some key concepts earlier), I believe that the curriculum is fundamentally flawed in that it is far too method-centered. This is indeed endemic throughout the world, but with the points race, and the fact that most countries have better extra-curricular maths facilities, I think it's an issue here. Many students drop in maths not because they are unable (far from it), but because they simply don't understand, and so it's all Greek to them (indeed, some of it *is* Greek :P).

Certainly, some teachers are excellent (mine included), and allow students to understand as well as learn methods. If every teacher taught like this, there would be no problem. But as we all know too well, there are many people in the teaching profession that probably shouldn't be. These teachers would also have great difficulty teaching an understanding of the subject, and so if the curriculum was reformed to something more understanding-based, the failure rates would probably increase.

</rant>

Seriously though, it made me quite happy to see the high A rate this year. After this years LCs I had begun to wonder if we'd lost a generation of mathematicians. Congrats to all those that got As, and maybe I'll see some of you at the Irish Mathematic Olympiad training in November.

Raphael

oRlyYaRly wrote:

It's not all about points. :eek:

You;re right. It's about points AND making matriculation, and that's the more important reason for higher maths. I wouldn't suggest taking higher maths unless you actually need itto get a place, the difference in work between passing honours and getting an A1 in higher maths is more than enough to get an A1 in something else.

philologos

yep I agree with Raphael, did honours maths before 5th year but dropped down to save the workload for other subjects I actually like

Fobia

Jakkass wrote:

Even agnosticism and atheism are studied in Religion. It would also help people learn tolerance in a multi-faith society.

That strikes me as a bit silly...you...study the idea that you CANT know what religion is right? It appears to be quite a simple idea to me..and you study the belief that there is no god? I mean, this can be studied on the grounds of morality and beliefs etc etc, but..the actual belief itself?

I'm not saying that doing religion for LC is stupid, I'd most certainly do it if I had the choice. Whether it's a "real" subject or not, well, I'm sure that was debated before they added it in as an LC subject, most people think LCVP is a bit of a joke too (and, going only on people I know who've done it, it is a bit..).

Oh, and tolerance shouldn't need to be taught as a subject..

Piste

Fobia wrote:

Oh, and tolerance shouldn't need to be taught as a subject..

I have met some people who would make me very inclined to disagree with that.

philologos

Fobia, I think that its a good idea to teach the people about how people do things in other parts of society and in other faiths as it won't make them as isolated to the people who know fully of their customs

JC 2K3

Jakkass wrote:

5th year Maths Higher Level is a huge jump and should only be done by people who genuinely need it for their course / points

I'm doing it for an easy A1......

JC higher maths for me was basically a night before job. Can't remember doing any homework after the mocks.

LC is a bit harder, was still in the bad habit of not doing the homework last year and only got a B2 in my summer exam. But I find maths in general very easy to understand. The only hard part about the exam for me is the time limit.

Oh and I don't believe thaat doing well in maths shouuld have anything to do with a good teacher. You either have the ability to do maths or you don't(I believe it has a lot to do with how you are brought up). A "good" teacher might be able to drill methods into you, but that's not learning maths, that's learning the exam.

philologos

yep I happen to be terrible at maths naturally

PurpleFistMixer

Being that I am only a week into fifth year now, this is gonna be a bit of a wild estimation. However, the standard seems like a bit of a jump from JC. Perhaps it's just because we're used to doing the easiest maths ever in the first week of classes and whatnot, that LC maths seems harder. (As we're, thankfully, not doing the old "Okay here's a number line"*) Like, we actually had to THINK about our homework before doing it.

However, I'm not sure if making JC maths harder would be any kind of help. Well, it'd mean you're more prepared, kind of, going into LC, but there'd also be the high probability of scaring even more people off maths.

I think a lot of the problem is that a lot of people approach maths with an entirely wrong mindset. Maths has a bad name for being hard, so people automatically assume that it is, without giving themselves a chance for understanding it or whatever. Too many times have I seen girls in my class give up on a question before even trying it, simply because it looks difficult.
So far, LC maths LOOKS complicated, but it's not exactly rocket science.


Also, forgive me if I'm wrong (and for continuing the off topic in this thread...); I don't do the subject, but does History not encorporate a fair bit of politics?

Piste

It does, but not current politics/political systems etc.

My maths teacher said that my maths teacher would be the highest pass class for LC maths, then asked who wanted to do honours and nearly the whole class put up their hands but said they're probably drop down. I'm going to do honours maths to begin with, but if I find that it's eating up too much of my time I'll drop down so I can concentrate on points subjects.

JC 2K3

There can't be a LC Politics subject that can work, because at that level it has to be objective and not that subjective, insulting to our intelligence, indoctinating, piece of shít JC subject, CSPE, and if people understood how fúcked up our political system is and how unfair the world is there'd be unrest and rebellion.

philologos

PurpleFistMixer wrote:

Also, forgive me if I'm wrong (and for continuing the off topic in this thread...); I don't do the subject, but does History not encorporate a fair bit of politics?

Yes it does, we are doing the Irish situation from 1870 upto the 1st Home Rule Bill under Isaac Butt. You need to know who did what under what government and how it affected people locally and in a wider sense how did it make other politicians feel and how did they react and the like. Much more than just plonking down the facts however you need to understand the background and the concequences of it as well. Thats politics in the past however, not today, its not like you study the current situation politically. I'd be up for it as many people rarely understand what is happening politically and how it affects our world as well. And in response to the last poster there is plenty to be asked and it could be essay based. "In your opinion, what do you find from the recent conflict between the United States and its Coalition and Iraq and Afghanistan" you'd have to mention the background of 9/11 and the laws in the UK and US regarding terrorism, Patriot Act 2001, and the Terrorism Act of 2000 in the UK. And you'd have to mention stuff in regard to the Kean Commission and investigations into it and the deployment of the troops and the areas they were put in etc etc. and state your opinion on each of them. It wouldn't be intended to be a joke like CSPE.

JC 2K3

That would promote too much free thinking for the government to allow it.

philologos

Free thinking? surely thats what a democracy and a republic are about? There would be more questions in relation to Ireland as well. It's time that we gave people an interest in Politics as nobody could give a damn about it these days..

JC 2K3

Jakkass wrote:

Free thinking? surely thats what a democracy and a republic are about?

Indeed, but we're the USA's lap dog these days.

philologos

and perhaps now is the time to stop being the US lapdog and let Irish students study politics and perhaps formulate and opinion on it.

Fobia

Free thinking only leads to public unrest.

Public unrest only leads to violence.

I think JC 2k3's point may be that giving the people too much opportunity to voice their opinions, could lead to a less-safe environment?

It takes thousands upon thousands to bring a government to power, as they did at the last election - it only takes a few hundred disgruntled youths to start a riot.

JC 2K3

I never said I was against the idea, I just said the government wouldn't allow it.

philologos

so its better if youths take a blind eye to the world?

Fobia

Jakkass wrote:

so its better if youths take a blind eye to the world?

It can be. Depends on the situation. For every action there's an equal reaction etc etc - sometimes something that seems righteous and good could end up leading to people being hurt in the long run. This could be one of those situations.

Note all the could's, may's and can's - I'm not the government, just proposing their possible reasoning.

N1njapirate

I totally agree. I loved Maths and Science in the Junior Cert. I got an A in both easily.I did TY and went into 5th year. It came as a huge shock all the work expected in Maths. It can take an hour to do your maths homework.(depending on teacher and ability) It's crazy. I should be well capable to do honours, but as it is so time consuming and difficult I'm not so sure now..

Giblet

The JC or LC Maths exams ain't 'owt compared to 5 years doing Electronic Engineering.

Piste

JC 2K3 wrote:

There can't be a LC Politics subject that can work, because at that level it has to be objective and not that subjective, insulting to our intelligence, indoctinating, piece of shít JC subject, CSPE, and if people understood how fúcked up our political system is and how unfair the world is there'd be unrest and rebellion.

Politics could be taught perfectly well at LC level as something objective. Topics such as the politics of economics, political science, different political systems and of course political history could be covered as objectively as they are at third level, essentialy if there were an LC politics subject it would mainly be a watered down, more condensed version of third level politics. As regards objectivity, that's to do with essay questions, if essay titles begin with "In your opinion..." or "Why do you think...?" then of course they will be objective, but some objectivity is positive if opinions are properly backed up as it can show understanding of the subject.

If people are better informed about politics and have a better understanding they wouldn't be so closed minded about political situations and wouldn't rely on the media to formulate their opinions.

N1njapiarate: I love your screenname.