Supplements

john_cappa

caffeine isnt even the main stim in jack3d.

Poor poor product IMO.

Gummy Panda

john_cappa wrote: »

caffeine isnt even the main stim in jack3d.

Poor poor product IMO.

Do you bother with pre workouts?

mufcboy1999

Mellor wrote: »

My point was that he didn't say it didn't work. He jsut said that Oxy is over priced.
A quick google says they are 100mg caffien per cap. Which is pretty low, Jacked is a better option.

I use jacked on and off like you suggest. Same as my coffee intake. Works fine for me, but I can see how a coffee addict mgiht not feel it as much.

Good deal on gold whey above. Wouldnt bother with strom creatine. Creatine mono is just as good. There is NO research showing other types of creatine are anymore effective than plain mono. Oxy elite pro is a waste of money. Jacked=the same.

he inclined it was a waste of money in which i explained how it isn't... if something works it cant be labelled a waste of money despite if there are cheaper alternatives out there or not.

caffeine isnt even the main stim in jack3d.

Poor poor product IMO.

its the most effective ingredient in it mate, its the one that gives you the pumped/alert feeling without it jack3d would be a poor product.

jack3d contains beta alanine aswell as creatine but either do much in terms of a pump despite beta alanine being linked to muscular endurance , the only thing you will probably notice with beta alanine is that it gives you that tingling feeling some people hate it others love it, i like it to be honest.

but as i said jack3 works dont know how you can call it a poor product, maybe over priced but what isn't in the supplement industry.

Spunge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylhexanamine

if jack3d didnt have this, no-one would buy it.

Gummy Panda

Spunge wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylhexanamine

if jack3d didnt have this, no-one would buy it.

There is talk of the UK banning it in sports supplements. If it gets banned there, probably only a matter of time here

Spunge

Gummy Panda wrote: »

There is talk of the UK banning it in sports supplements. If it gets banned there, probably only a matter of time here

Im surprised this is even legal in ireland atm. Since they pretty much banned anything that has any psychoactive effects after the headshops were shut down.

Gummy Panda

Looks like MyProtein is getting bigger as a brand. Now have Sky Sports ads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABUkiT09ui4

Owen_S

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

he inclined it was a waste of money in which i explained how it isn't... if something works it cant be labelled a waste of money despite if there are cheaper alternatives out there or not.



its the most effective ingredient in it mate, its the one that gives you the pumped/alert feeling without it jack3d would be a poor product.

jack3d contains beta alanine aswell as creatine but either do much in terms of a pump despite beta alanine being linked to muscular endurance , the only thing you will probably notice with beta alanine is that it gives you that tingling feeling some people hate it others love it, i like it to be honest.

but as i said jack3 works dont know how you can call it a poor product, maybe over priced but what isn't in the supplement industry.

What exactly do you mean by 'a pump'?

Gummy Panda

Owen_S wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by 'a pump'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkUNKKgZ-1w

I had to post the arnie explanation :pac::pac:

nbrady20009

Owen_S wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by 'a pump'?

The muscular 'pump' is caused by trapped plasma within the muscle. During muscular contraction the muscle diameter increases as it shortens. During intense muscular contraction, this force inward momentarily blocks the veins, backing up blood flow through that particular muscle group. A compensatory increase of blood pressure forces plasma from the backed up capillaries into the spaces between the muscle cells. The inability to achieve a pump is one symptom of overtraining since fluid volume in the muscle, and possibly blood volume, decrease when glycogen stores are low.

Not even a c&p bro.

itsallaboutheL

Spunge wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylhexanamine

if jack3d didnt have this, no-one would buy it.

i'm almost positive it's on the WADA list.

edit: read the wiki, it is.

mufcboy1999

bare with these lads they might not be every one's cup of tea, bro science at its best

anyway jack3d contains DMAA and now its been linked with the deaths of some U.S soldiers.

i wouldnt be too worried, these soldiers abused the product maybe in future people will listen to the usage directions and not abuse the product.

it will be banned though sooner or later, agree their.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6jZ_01nxs8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrjR86Ruemw

Owen_S

nbrady20009 wrote: »

The muscular 'pump' is caused by trapped plasma within the muscle. During muscular contraction the muscle diameter increases as it shortens. During intense muscular contraction, this force inward momentarily blocks the veins, backing up blood flow through that particular muscle group. A compensatory increase of blood pressure forces plasma from the backed up capillaries into the spaces between the muscle cells. The inability to achieve a pump is one symptom of overtraining since fluid volume in the muscle, and possibly blood volume, decrease when glycogen stores are low.

Not even a c&p bro.

Tasty pasta brah :pac:

nbrady20009

Owen_S wrote: »

nbrady20009 wrote: »

The muscular 'pump' is caused by trapped plasma within the muscle. During muscular contraction the muscle diameter increases as it shortens. During intense muscular contraction, this force inward momentarily blocks the veins, backing up blood flow through that particular muscle group. A compensatory increase of blood pressure forces plasma from the backed up capillaries into the spaces between the muscle cells. The inability to achieve a pump is one symptom of overtraining since fluid volume in the muscle, and possibly blood volume, decrease when glycogen stores are low.

Not even a c&p bro.

Tasty pasta brah :pac:

No genuine piece I did up for a pal of mine based on lecture notes and external resources recommended to us, brosef.

john_cappa

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Do you bother with pre workouts?

Yes I do and always have done. Typically I make my own these days though as I actively try to avoids stims apart from low doses of caffeine. Too many branded products are prop blends with high stims, low active ingredients and full of fillers.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

its the most effective ingredient in it mate, its the one that gives you the pumped/alert feeling without it jack3d would be a poor product.

jack3d contains beta alanine aswell as creatine but either do much in terms of a pump despite beta alanine being linked to muscular endurance , the only thing you will probably notice with beta alanine is that it gives you that tingling feeling some people hate it others love it, i like it to be honest.

but as i said jack3 works dont know how you can call it a poor product, maybe over priced but what isn't in the supplement industry.

So I say that caffeine is not the main stim in jack3d (as the 1.3 d is the main stim)and that jacked is a poor product? And you counter that saying that caffeine is the most effective ingredient in jacked (and i agree on that) and without it then it would be a poor product? So if it didnt have the caffeine it would be a poor product? Caffeine is the cheapest of the cheap (a very effective stim with tons of research btw) but if in your opinion without the caffeine it is a poor product then why would you even use it????? you know you can buy 100g of pure caffeine for 5 euro at bulkpowders? This equates to 500 single scoops of jack3d lol.

You say caffeine helps with pump/alertness. Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor so actually inhibits a building up a pump in the gym (though the usefulness of a pump regarding improving performance is not proven in the slightest).

Lets look at the other ingredients. Total serving size 5.5 grams.

Creatine is included. As a filler and lip-service and in too small a dose to be considered effective unless you are taking the 3 scoops (at which point it becomes so expensive that it would be madness). Either way creatine has NO acute effect so taking it pre-workput is pointless and the only reason should be convenience.

Beta alinine.....again included in too small a dose to be effective. 6.4 grams daily has been shown to be an effective dose (see Harris et al. 2006 or Hill et al 2007). The overall serving size in this is less than that lol. Not that I would suggest anyone take 6.4 at a time as it would cause very severe tingles. 3 doses of 2 grams per day is effective. And why include BA as an ingredient.....it has NO acute effect so is pointless as an ingredient! Utterly pointless!

AAKG-A great cheap pump product IMO but yet again there is not enough of it! When using this as a stand alone I use 4-6 grams a time to get a pump!

Schizandrol A-I am not going to even bother discussing this lol!!! I think it is enough to quote from the Jack3d website (see here http://www.jack-3d.com/ingredients) ................."Little is known on the human effects of Schizandrol A, but USPLabs likes to talk about the rat study showing counter-stress behaviors from Schizandrol A."
So nothing is known in humans and they want to talk about a single study on stress in rats........give me a break.

So basically all that is in the product is caffeine and the 1.3d..............and you are telling me it works well and is a good product while at the same time saying it would be a poor product if it wasnt for the Caffeine?

Spunge

man if the main effects of jack3d were caused by caffeine id be drinking a lot less coffee (or a lot more)

Gummy Panda

john_cappa wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Do you bother with pre workouts?

Yes I do and always have done. Typically I make my own these days though as I actively try to avoids stims apart from low doses of caffeine. Too many branded products are prop blends with high stims, low active ingredients and full of fillers.

What's your own pre workout consist of?

john_cappa

Gummy Panda wrote: »

What's your own pre workout consist of?

Stuff like AAKG, Agmatine, Taurine, glucuronolactone, DMAE, tyrosine, critrulline malate, caffeine, alcar, creatine, Beta alainine etc.

Same stuff that is in most pre workouts! Except when you make it yourself you can use effective doses!

will56

john_cappa wrote: »

Stuff like AAKG, Agmatine, Taurine, glucuronolactone, DMAE, tyrosine, critrulline malate, caffeine, alcar, creatine, Beta alainine etc.

Same stuff that is in most pre workouts! Except when you make it yourself you can use effective doses!

Do you mix up yourself, ie order all the above seperately then mix for each shake or can you customize as order like Myprotein to have the correct dosing ?

Mellor

I think what John_Cappa is saying, regard the correct dosage, is the fundamental problem is many supplements.

A test or study proves that a chemical has an effect on weight loss, or performance and then the company has free reign to market that effect and refer to the study in the small print.
But they don't have to quantitfy it. Is the dosage the same, how big an effect etc.
Like those fat burner pills containing cartinine, the animo required for fat metabolism. Great.
Except for the fact that unless you are vegan you are getting lots of it anyway, probably more than in each pill.


So, if we are going to discuss Jack3D or other PreWO stims. Then can we list what the effective dose is, and importantly what is the does in jacked.

At a guess, its prob around 2g AAKG, 2g Creatine and 100mg of Caffine

will56 wrote: »

Do you mix up yourself, ie order all the above seperately then mix for each shake or can you customize as order like Myprotein to have the correct dosing ?

Mixing up each shake would be time consuming.
Pretty easy to mix batches of say 50 doses.
400mg caffine x 50 = 20g, etc etc
Mix in a tub and give it a shake to mix.

john_cappa

will56 wrote: »

Do you mix up yourself, ie order all the above seperately then mix for each shake or can you customize as order like Myprotein to have the correct dosing ?

I have never had all of the above at the same time lol!

Just buy in bags from 100 g to 500 g from a bulk supplier! Doesnt taste great usually! Thats what proper does levels taste like!

john_cappa

Mellor wrote: »

I think what John_Cappa is saying, regard the correct dosage, is the fundamental problem is many supplements.

A test or study proves that a chemical has an effect on weight loss, or performance and then the company has free reign to market that effect and refer to the study in the small print.
But they don't have to quantitfy it. Is the dosage the same, how big an effect etc.
Like those fat burner pills containing cartinine, the animo required for fat metabolism. Great.
Except for the fact that unless you are vegan you are getting lots of it anyway, probably more than in each pill.


So, if we are going to discuss Jack3D or other PreWO stims. Then can we list what the effective dose is, and importantly what is the does in jacked.

At a guess, its prob around 2g AAKG, 2g Creatine and 100mg of Caffine

+1 gram of BA.

People think it works as they are stimed up from the caffeine and 1.3.
I suppose it depends on your definition of "work" is. etc. If being stimed up represents working them yeah.

will56

If you could design your own pre-workout supplement what ingredients and what dosing should be used ?
It'd be interesting to do a comparison of one scratch built and something like Jacked, 1MR etc.

Monokne

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

true but he might not want to lose weight, they can be used for cutting up and getting ripped also.

if you find it hard to drop your body fat these will help along with a good diet and training program.

i cant give you much feedback because iv only started taking them this week meself, im looking to cut up and lower my body fat.

go to bodybuilding.com there's plenty of feedback on it.

Just curious about Oxyelite Pro and wanted to get feedback from you, or indeed anyone who's used it for a full 4 - 6 weeks about what results you got and what I can expect.

I'm 5 foot 11, 202 pounds and hoping to cut to around 185 - 190 in time for my wedding in 6 weeks. I realise this might not be possible! That's what I usually weigh but I was sick for a prolonged period last year and put on about 18 pounds. Anyways, I do cardio 4 days a week, about 50 minutes or so, and I've got pretty healthy balanced diet of just under 2000 calories a day. I've never tried a supplement before but a friend who works in sports therapy said it was high reward and low risk, so what the hey :-)

Anyone have an educated guess on how much I can expect to shift?

Cheers

TheZ

Monokne wrote: »

Just curious about Oxyelite Pro and wanted to get feedback from you, or indeed anyone who's used it for a full 4 - 6 weeks about what results you got and what I can expect.

I'm 5 foot 11, 202 pounds and hoping to cut to around 185 - 190 in time for my wedding in 6 weeks. I realise this might not be possible! That's what I usually weigh but I was sick for a prolonged period last year and put on about 18 pounds. Anyways, I do cardio 4 days a week, about 50 minutes or so, and I've got pretty healthy balanced diet of just under 2000 calories a day. I've never tried a supplement before but a friend who works in sports therapy said it was high reward and low risk, so what the hey :-)

Anyone have an educated guess on how much I can expect to shift?

Cheers

I think it was banned or reformulated. Old formula worked because it kills your appetite.

john_cappa

will56 wrote: »

If you could design your own pre-workout supplement what ingredients and what dosing should be used ?
It'd be interesting to do a comparison of one scratch built and something like Jacked, 1MR etc.

http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/osagi-stack.aspx

Monokne

TheZ wrote: »

I think it was banned or reformulated. Old formula worked because it kills your appetite.

Hasn't been reformulated and you can still get it online, like I did...

Mellor

Monokne wrote: »

Hasn't been reformulated and you can still get it online, like I did...

The stuff you got online is probably the revised legal version.

It's a low dose of caffine with a few other bits.

Dermighty

Owen_S wrote: »

Isn't Tribulus the stuff that is commonly known for being complete BS?

There are a lot of supplements that would fit under that heading :P

Monokne

Mellor wrote: »

The stuff you got online is probably the revised legal version.

It's a low dose of caffine with a few other bits.

Down 4 pounds in 5 days so it's safe to say it's effective!