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Iraq can vote Americans out?

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  • 11-09-2006 6:49pm
    #1
    nobodythere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭


    I just heard on RTE news an american speaking about American troops in Iraq going on with the usual "we're freeing the people" stuff.

    He then said that the Iraqi people are free to vote the Americans out of their country as is in their constitution. Is this true? Is it practical? I would think it would have been done long ago if it could have been!


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    #2
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,588 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Is this true?

    Yes. If Iraq asks the US military to leave, they will have to leave. Indeed Id imagine they wouldnt need to be asked twice to have an honourable get out clause.
    Is it practical?

    No, theres a long running Sunni insurgency and a Shia counter-insurgency under al Sadr operating against the government currently. The Iraqi security forces currently arent up to the job of fighting them - hence the US military has not been asked to leave.
    I would think it would have been done long ago if it could have been!

    Bad and all as things are, a US withdrawal would be like throwing blood into a shark pen.


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    #3
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,423 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Sand wrote:
    Yes. If Iraq asks the US military to leave, they will have to leave. Indeed Id imagine they wouldnt need to be asked twice to have an honourable get out clause.
    And you think the U.S. would allow the Iraqis to hold such a referendum?

    The Iraqi government was elected on a platfrom that they would end the U.S. occupation, that is what the voters chose with their purple stained fingers, and the day after the election, Bush spat in their face and declared that he would not announce any timetable for withdrawal.
    http://www.time./time/world/article/0,8599,1022720,00.html
    America are also building permenant military ases in Iraq. Why would they do that if they intended to leave? And they won't vacate those bases just because the Iraqis might ask them to. (do you think the cubans want them in Guantanamo bay?)

    No, theres a long running Sunni insurgency and a Shia counter-insurgency under al Sadr operating against the government currently. The Iraqi security forces currently arent up to the job of fighting them - hence the US military has not been asked to leave.
    America's presence is causing more problems than it is solving. Anyone who co-operates with them is seen as a collaborator with the U.S. and a legitimate target. Just like collaborators with the black and tans were seen as traitors in Irish history. The British called the republicans terrorists in the 1920s and they claimed they were needed in Ireland to keep security, the same arguments are equally as wrong in iraq today as they in Ireland were almost 90 years ago.

    Bad and all as things are, a US withdrawal would be like throwing blood into a shark pen.
    America are utterly incapable of maintaining any kind of security in iraq. Monthly deaths are mounting, hundreds of people are being murdered every day. What is their purpose in Iraq?


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    #4
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,588 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    And you think the U.S. would allow the Iraqis to hold such a referendum?

    Why would a referendum be required? All that would be required is for the elected Iraqi government to say "Thanks and all, but well take it from here".
    America are also building permenant military ases in Iraq. Why would they do that if they intended to leave? And they won't vacate those bases just because the Iraqis might ask them to.

    Really? They vacated Uzbek bases because they were asked to. In an equally strategically sensitive part of the world.

    Any US military presence in Iraq would be untenable if the Iraqi PM was to request their departure, due to external and above all internal pressure. TBH, I wouldnt be surprised if the US engineered an Iraqi request for their departure, to allow them to exit with pride intact.


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    #5
    ISAW
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,142 ✭✭✭ISAW


    grasshopa wrote:
    I just heard on RTE news an american speaking about American troops in Iraq going on with the usual "we're freeing the people" stuff.

    He then said that the Iraqi people are free to vote the Americans out of their country as is in their constitution. Is this true? Is it practical? I would think it would have been done long ago if it could have been!

    What programme on RTE? when?
    As regards the constitution try http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/currentawareness/iraqiconstitution.php

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Iraq

    As regards being practical.
    In practice the people of the USA are free to vote the president out of office. How many presidents have been impeached in the last two and a half centuries?

    Here is an english translation:
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-08-24-iraqi-constitution-draft_x.htm

    Exactly where in the Iraqui constitution does it mention allowing foreign troops in Iraq and moving them on? Article 9 does not mention it.


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    #6
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Akrasia wrote:

    America are also building permenant military ases in Iraq. Why would they do that if they intended to leave? And they won't vacate those bases just because the Iraqis might ask them to. (do you think the cubans want them in Guantanamo bay?)

    Well, as long as the Americans are there, they might as well be comfortable. Living in a tent really sucks for an extended period of time, trust me. I am aware of a number of facilities which the US has handed over to the Iraqis, I worked at two of them. And the Cubans don't have much of a choice over Guantanamo, per the 1934 treaty.

    NTM


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    #7
    ISAW
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,142 ✭✭✭ISAW


    Manic Moran wrote:
    Well, as long as the Americans are there, they might as well be comfortable.

    Which was why the IRA used tactics against the British Army in the War of Independence which fitted in their two point strategy. First was make them feel unconfortable and constantly under threat and on edge. The US troops in Iraq live as such, and the current administration does enough of this on the people at home.
    Living in a tent really sucks for an extended period of time, trust me.
    I am aware of a number of facilities which the US has handed over to the Iraqis, I worked at two of them.

    Which links the two parts of the strategy. the other being "keep them at a distance. The US are seen as occupiers foreigners and oppressors and not as friends peacemakers or bringers of freedom. The IRA had the Brits locked up in unconfortable barracks and people would not talk to them in the local shop. contrast this with the French in Algeria. the French put women into schools. Older women. This existed in Iraq but under the current regime situation a backward step has been taken and fundies prevent women having education or influence.
    And the Cubans don't have much of a choice over Guantanamo, per the 1934 treaty.

    I suppose the Chagos has no choice either over Diego Garcia as per the non 1950s treaty? :)


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    #8
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Sand wrote:
    Why would a referendum be required? All that would be required is for the elected Iraqi government to say "Thanks and all, but well take it from here".

    Actually the PM already did ask for a timetable, the Americans said "boo" and then he withdrew it.


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