Questions about the Qu'ran

MeditationMom

The Statement: There is noone except Allah -

What is actually the correct, official translation or version? I am sure I am not even quoting the statement as it should be.

What do the symbols of the original language mean? Can that which gets lost in the translation be described?

Is the word Allah just another word for God, the same God of the Old and New Testament, or another God entirely?

Would this statement "There is no God, but God", be a wrong understanding of this statement?

Could one also say: "God is All" ?

Also in order to be respectful, do I add after "Mohammed" and "Qu'ran" the blessing in my posts (please advise how they are supposed to be written), or would that actually be considered disrespectful and hypocritical from a Westener?

Thanks in advance-

the_new_mr

You're very welcome here MeditationMom. I've seen some of your posts elsewhere on boards and you seem to be a peaceful person. I shall try and answer your questions as best as I can. Cool avatar by the way Fits in with your username very well

MeditationMom wrote:

Is the word Allah just another word for God, the same God of the Old and New Testament, or another God entirely?

He is indeed the same God. Allah is the arabic word used for the One true God. Arabic speaking Christians use the word Allah when referring to God and you can see this in an Arabic copy of the Bible for example.

The difference between using Allah and using the word God is that Allah has only one meaning and that is the One God that we worship. The word god can be used in all sorts of things such as greek mythology for example so Allah avoids ambiguity in this way. I like to interchange between using Allah and God so that non-Arabic speakers can know that He's the same.

MeditationMom wrote:

The Statement: There is noone except Allah -

What is actually the correct, official translation or version? I am sure I am not even quoting the statement as it should be.

I assume you're talking about the first half of the testimony of faith. The full testimony states: "There is no god except Allah. Mohamed is the messenger of Allah" That's the most literal translation I can think of.

MeditationMom wrote:

What do the symbols of the original language mean? Can that which gets lost in the translation be described?

I believe that there is very little lost in translation from Arabic to English. Of course, it's not the same but it's very very close (and God knows best).

MeditationMom wrote:

Would this statement "There is no God, but God", be a wrong understanding of this statement?

Very almost correct "There is no god but God" Lower-case 'g' in first one and upper-case 'G' for second one.

MeditationMom wrote:

Could one also say: "God is All" ?

I don't think this is correct to say. No disrespect meant but I think it leaves too much room for mis-understanding.

MeditationMom wrote:

Also in order to be respectful, do I add after "Mohammed" and "Qu'ran" the blessing in my posts (please advise how they are supposed to be written), or would that actually be considered disrespectful and hypocritical from a Westener?

Kudos on your good will. I'm very impressed by your readiness and desire to be respectful to others' faiths. It certainly would not be considered disrespectful from you at all.

Generally speaking, the words (peace be upon him/her) are said after mentioning the name of a prophet or important spirtual figure. This would be said after saying the name Mohamed, Jesus, Moses, Mary, John etc (peace be upon them all). There's no need to say anything after mentioning the Quran although sometimes it's given the title of The Noble Quran.

Hope I answered satisfactorily. Let me know if you'd like any ellaboration.

CatStevens

Hi MeditationMom
First of all thank you for your questions

MeditationMom wrote:

Is the word Allah just another word for God, the same God of the Old and New Testament, or another God entirely?

Actually Allah is one of God's name, He is the same God of Moses and Jesus
I'd like to quote you the following
Yahweh , Elohim, Eloah, 'El, 'El-'Elohe-Yisra'el etc are God's names in the bible.
Click here if you want to know about more other names of God in the Bible

The suffix "IM" of the word "ELOHIM" is a plural of respect in Hebrew.
(Remember that in Arabic and Hebrew there are two types of plurals. One of numbers and the other of honour as in Royal proclamations. Since the plural of honour is uncommon in the language of the European, he has confused these plurals to connote a plurality in the "godhead," hence his justification for his Doctrine of the Holy Trinity - the Father, Son and Holy Ghost).
Hence ELOHIM = ELOH + IM. Now I want you to perform an exercise. Do you see the words: YA-HUWA ELOH-IM? Place your left hand index finger on the first two letters "YA" meaning oh! and the other index finger on the "IM" a plural of respect. What you now have remaining in Huwa Eloh or Huwa Elah. El in Hebrew means god, and Elah or Eloh also stands for the same name - god. Therefore, "Huwa el Elah" or HUWA 'L LAH, which is identical to the Quranic expression – Huwal- lah hu (meaning: HE IS ALLAH) of the verse QUL HUWAL LAH HU AH'AD
قل هو الله أحد

---

Quraan:112.1:
قل

---

say
هو الله

---

He is Allah
أحد

---

the One (the only one)
The above exercise proves that El, Elah and Elohim are not three distinctly different words. They all represent the single Arabic word Allah. This is not my wishful thinking. Please see below. It is a photostatic reproduction of a page from the English Bible, edited by Rev. C. I. Scofield,D.D., with his Bible Commentary· This Doctor of Divinity is well respected among the Bible Scholars of the Christian world. He is backed in his "NEW AND IMPROVED EDITION" of this translation by a galaxy of eight other D.D.'s:
_____________________________________________________
Rev. Henry G. Weston, D.D., LL.D., President Crozer Theological jeminary. Rev. W. G. Moorehead, D.D., President Xenia (U.I,) Theological Seminary. Rev. lames M. Gray, D.D., President Moody Bible Institute.
Rev. Elmore Harris, D.D., President Toronto Bible Institute.
Rev. William !. Erdman, D.D., Author "The Gospel of John," etc.
Rev. Arthur T. Pierson, D.D., Author, Editor, Teacher, etc.
Rev. William L. Pettingill, D.D., Author, Editor, Teacher.
Arno C. Gaebelein, Author "Harmoney of Prophetic Word," etc.
______________________________________________________
I have not listed the above luminaries to awe you. They have been unanimous in supporting Rev. Scofield in his "New and Improved" commentary.
Please note that in their comment No. 1 below left, they concur that - "Elohim, (sometimes El or Elah meaning God)" and alternatively spelled "Alah" (line three, third word). All the eight D.D.'s above could not have been blind in dittoing the spelling "Alah" for God. How far were they from the Arabic word spelled - ALLAH - in English, I ask you dear reader? This is Allah's handiwork, but the Devil (I must give him a capital "D," he deserves it) was not slow in making a quick come-back through his agents. He succeeded in firing all the D.D.'s responsible for that debacle, and had them replaced by nine others with more impressive degrees than the previous lot. You will find them in the recent reproduction of "The New Scofield Reference Bible." You will not be able to lay your hands anymore on the Bible with "Alah" in it. The Devil has seen to that.

I had made some public statements regarding my discovery of the word "Alah" as alternatively spelled from the usual Christian spelling "Elah." My plea to the Christians was this that spell the word as you like, with an "A" or an "E", with a single "L" or double "LL's", but for goodness sake pronounce the word correctly, as we Muslims do. Because even with its proper Anglicised spelling -
A L L A H: "IT IS SO FAR FROM ITS ARABIC ORIGINAL, WHEN PRONOUNCED WITH A THIN ENGLISH CONSONANT AND FEEBLE VOWELS, THAT MANY AN ARAB MUSLIM WOULD FIND IT UNRECOGNIZABLE." Says Rev. Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem in his book, "The Call of the Minaret," page 36.

As much as the Englishman has the right to dictate to us as to how his language is to be sounded, surely we Muslims have as much right to demand a common courtesy when taking the name of God. We do not wish the word Allah to go into limbo like the "Yahuwa" of the ]ews. More than 6000 times the formula "YAHUWA ELAH," or ya"HUWA ALAH," or "HUWALLAH," (He is Allah!) occur in the Hebrew manuscripts of the Jewish Bible, commonly called the "Old Testament," by the Christians. If this fact is openly acknowledged by the learned men of Christianity and broadcasted as Rev. Scofield had done then the day for Muslims and Christians to worship God together would not be far distant. But the Devil will not have it. Vested interests are involved. Instead of prenouncing the word ALAH correctly, they would rather have the whole word omitted.

"Now You See It" - "Now You Don't" is an old, old gimmick in the West. Compare the above and see how cleverly, how deftly the new band of missionaries expunged the word "Alah" from the "Authorised King James Version" of the Scofield translation of the Bible.

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

Wibbs

Well looking at the first page where it appears it says the word "alah" means to swear, to bend oneself to an oath, so it's hardly the same word root as "Allah" and also it's part of the footnotes and explanations of the text, not in the text itself. In any case while there may be similarities between the semitic languages words and their roots differ quite a bit. As conspiracies go it's not exactly up there with the Kennedy assassination.

CatStevens

Regardless of the meaning, they replaced it with Elohim? Elohim is a name, Allah knows best anyway

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

MeditationMom

by CatStevens- Therefore, "Huwa el Elah" or HUWA 'L LAH, which is identical to the Quranic expression – Huwal- lah hu (meaning: HE IS ALLAH) of the verse QUL HUWAL LAH HU AH'AD
قل هو الله أحد

---

Quraan:112.1:
قل

---

say
هو الله

---

He is Allah
أحد

---

the One (the only one)

Thank You CatStevens -cool name by the way, one of my favorite musicians of my youth - I understand he became a practising Muslim -

So, this statement then, although stripped of its original deep arabic sound quality, which, yes, would be a far cry from English, would be:

"He is Allah, the One, say." Can you explain a little what this "say" is. Just a general expression added to sentences, or more meanig than that? As in "declare", or "shout it from the roof tops"?

This is then maybe different from "There is no God, but God"? Positive instead of negative. Or not?

by the_new_mr- The full testimony states: "There is no god except Allah. Mohamed is the messenger of Allah" That's the most literal translation I can think of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeditationMom
Could one also say: "God is All" ?

I don't think this is correct to say. No disrespect meant but I think it leaves too much room for mis-understanding.

It is Mary Baker Eddy's statement (Christian Science), so no disrespect to me. The idea or revelation is that God is not separate from existence. Existence is God. God is Existence. All exsists within God, God exsists within everything, in other words, absolute Oneness, as a principal religious idea of God. Certainly much room for misunderstanding.



Three years ago, after spending many days in meditation, silence, prayer, when I "returned" the first thought that entered my mind was this "There is no God, but God". I then asked around whether this statement existed in any scriptures. Someone got very excited and said that Mohammed said the same thing. Ever since I have been interested in Mohammed (peace be upon him)but didn't have Boards then to go to for help. (Thank You the_new_mr, for your instruction and all the other kind things you said).

I will go to the sites on the names for God/Allah, but here quickly, could some of the long list of names for God in both Hebrew and Arabic be translated as Love, Truth, Peace etc.?

CatStevens, you speak of the Devil with a capital "D" which brings me to another general question. In Christianiy there also is the Devil and God, Heaven and Hell. In the common understanding of Heaven, Christians sometimes imagine Angels, in white, singing, playing peaceful music on harps, an athmosphere of quiet friendliness, love and peace.

Is it true that for Muslims, in Heaven, there are 72 virgins, and what does that mean? Can you quote me the Qu'ran on that matter. Is this Heaven actually meant to be a sexual paradise after a long life of drudge, sacrifice and no pleasure, or is this just anti-Islam distortion in the media, or just the belief of certain groups within Islam? I understand that for many in Islam Westeners are seen as perverted - and given some of our media-"culture" exports that is no great surprise - but normal Westerners think the idea of a sex orgy Heaven with 72 Virgins is perverted. I hope this isn't going to launch this thread into a huge argument about who is more perverted - I am really just inquiring about this image of Heaven and have it explained to me by someone other than the media.

If it is a heaven of 72 virgins, how would one describe Heaven to a Muslim child, or women for that matter?
Christian angles also seem to be pure, young females, but they are never called virgins, as in, the ideal sexual encounter. It seems they are sexless, or like the other image of angles, children.
In the Christian Heaven, finally peace in heaven, no more sex needed to be happy and peaceful.

Does this arabic word for virgin, just mean purity and gentle feminity or actually refer to virginity as a sexual definition and wonderful sexual reward in heaven for males?
I actually do not know whether the Bible talks about harp playing angles in the form of young females or children in Heaven, or where these images comes from. Ideally, Christians speak of sitting to the right of Jesus next to God in Heaven. All of this taken literally is of course difficult to imagine. But since people have such strong, literal beliefs I am interested, especially, what Muslims tell their children about Heaven and at what point does something slip in there for young males to be expecting 72 virgins?
The number 72 is also interesting. I saw this number elsewhere as an important number, but can't recall where.

As far as taking out or adding words and meanings to scriptures - what else is new? We all, of all faiths need to understand the limits of all scriptures. Especially after thousands of years of translations, interpretations, power struggles etc.

I searched in many scriptures and then just dropped all of them and then started to spent huge amounts of time in silence, meditation and prayer - scriptures then started to come to me from the strangest sources to confirm or explain experiences, revelations and insights that had happende to me during my silent periods. Consequently I deeply love the hidden treasures in all scriptures and can only pray that the untruths also serve someone somewhere somehow to find their way home.

Please send me some quotes from the Qu'ran that mean so much to you that they move you to tears, in other words, touch your heart deeply.

Also, is there a site you know of where I can get audio of the way "Allah" really sounds like spoken in Arabic. Please send me to a good site, nothing radical. I was on a sailboat ankered in a harbor outside a mosque, in Malaysia last summer and listened for hours to the most beautiful chanting of evening prayers. I was deeply touched, as I am in all countries when I get to listen to devotional music.

Now what comes to my mind is " Salemaleicum" but please help me! It is something I heard in my childhood, but I don't know what it means, how it is spelled, where the symbols and sounds come from. My feeling is it means peace be with you.
Peace be with you!

wes

There are some disputes about the exact meaning of some of those passages (instead of Virgins its dates or something). I don't remember the Virgin thing being mentioned as a child (possibly not mentioned at all). Paradise was always been mentioned as being a wonderful place etc, not too sure of specifics. If you do a web search you should be able to find more info., I haven't been to a Mosque in ages so my memory on this stuff is crappy. Sure someone more knowledgable will give you a better answer.

the_new_mr

MeditationMom wrote:

Thank You the_new_mr, for your instruction and all the other kind things you said

No problem

MeditationMom wrote:

"He is Allah, the One, say." Can you explain a little what this "say" is. Just a general expression added to sentences, or more meanig than that? As in "declare", or "shout it from the roof tops"?

It's "Say: He is Allah, One" with the 'say' at the beginning, not the end. We believe that the Quran was revealed to the Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) from God through the angel Gabriel. So, the instruction 'say' is telling the Prophet what to say. I think it's also as an instruction to all people who read the Quran as to what to say but I'm not 100% sure on this.

You can see this quite a bit in the Quran and there is a beautiful thing that goes along with this. In many places in the Quran, you can find God saying to the Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) "If My servants ask you about...so-and-so then say:..."
For example:

Al-Baqara:219
"they will ask thee about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: "In both there is great evil as well as some benefit for man; but the evil which they cause is greater than the benefit which they bring." And they will ask thee as to what they should spend [in God's cause]. Say: "Whatever you can spare." In this way God makes clear unto you His messages, so that you might reflect"

and

Al-Araf:187
"they will ask thee [O Prophet] about the Last Hour: "When will it come to pass?" Say: "Verily, knowledge thereof rests with my Sustainer alone. None but He will reveal it in its time. Heavily will it weigh on the heavens and the earth; [and] it will not fall upon you otherwise than of a sudden." they will ask thee - as if thou couldst gain insight into this [mystery] by dint of persistent inquiry! [153] Say: "Knowledge thereof rests with my Sustainer alone; but [of this] most people are unaware."

and

Al-Isra:85
"They will ask thee concerning the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little."

This can be seen a number of times in the Quran... except in one case. In the following verse:

Al-Baqara:186
"And if My servants ask thee about Me - behold, I am near; I respond to the call of him who calls, whenever he calls unto Me: let them, then, respond unto Me, and believe in Me, so that they might follow the right way."

In the previous case, God chose to state straight away that He is near without the word 'say' to emphasise the fact that when it comes to calling upon God in prayer, there is nobody in between the caller and God Himself. You asked about a verse that I find very touching... well, that verse is one of the ones I find most touching of all.

MeditationMom wrote:

Three years ago, after spending many days in meditation, silence, prayer, when I "returned" the first thought that entered my mind was this "There is no God, but God". I then asked around whether this statement existed in any scriptures. Someone got very excited and said that Mohammed said the same thing. Ever since I have been interested in Mohammed (peace be upon him)but didn't have Boards then to go to for help.

A very interesting story. Put a big look of surprise on my face whilst reading it I can tell you

MeditationMom wrote:

I will go to the sites on the names for God/Allah, but here quickly, could some of the long list of names for God in both Hebrew and Arabic be translated as Love, Truth, Peace etc.?

Someone put up a very good thread to do with this on this forum. Here's the link to the thread.
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054966364

The thread has a link to a very nice site with 99 names of Allah listed. I should state at this point that some new opinions on these names has come out very recently stating that 21 of these 99 names should be changed. Anyway, you can take a look at the site at the current set of 99 names for now.

MeditationMom wrote:

Is it true that for Muslims, in Heaven, there are 72 virgins, and what does that mean?

It's a fair question. The Quran does state that there will be pure spouses (male and female for females and males respectively) for those who are granted entry into heaven. The number 72 doesn't have any basis in the Quran but is actually based on a hadith (tradition/saying of the Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) ) that is classified as weak and thereby not really to be relied upon.

The whole thing comes back to what you see as okay and what you see as not. We have to realise a truth that in many societies, people are taught to think that sex is a disgusting thing. Some people think that even sex between a husband and wife shouldn't actually be enjoyed. Truth is, sex is only disgusting when it's between two people who it shouldn't be between. If it's between two people who are lawful to eachother then that is a different story.

Also, just wanted to state clearly that the pure spouses are not supposed to be angels as far as I know so maybe you misunderstood this from somewhere.

I did a quick google and came across a very well written article on the matter so I thought I'd put it up since the person who wrote it seems to have done a very good job at it. Never seen this site before but looks pretty cool.

Have to say, there are some things in that article that I'm not so sure about but it seems pretty good in general.
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=72%20Virgins%20in%20Paradise

There is also the possibility, as Wes mentioned, that there is a misinterpretation and that the term houriyn is supposed to be grapes/raisins (not dates as Wes said). It's a possibility so we can't rule it out. Only God knows for sure.

MeditationMom wrote:

If it is a heaven of 72 virgins, how would one describe Heaven to a Muslim child, or women for that matter?

As mentioned already, the number isn't reliable. The idea for women is fine since it works both ways and I guess that there's no need to explain it to children in terms any different to what the Quran states and that is that there will be pure spouses or you could leave it to around the "birds and the bees talk" age.

MeditationMom wrote:

I searched in many scriptures and then just dropped all of them and then started to spent huge amounts of time in silence, meditation and prayer - scriptures then started to come to me from the strangest sources to confirm or explain experiences, revelations and insights that had happende to me during my silent periods.

Very interesting again. Muslims do believe though that the Quran is the literal word of God and has been unchanged since it was revealed over 1400 years ago. There is only one version of the Quran and it has always been completely memorised by thousands of people at any one time.

MeditationMom wrote:

Please send me some quotes from the Qu'ran that mean so much to you that they move you to tears, in other words, touch your heart deeply.

Fortunately for you, a thread was made about this not too long ago Here it is:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054963686

Must add Al-Baqara:186 to that thread now come to think of it.

MeditationMom wrote:

Also, is there a site you know of where I can get audio of the way "Allah" really sounds like spoken in Arabic.

Couldn't find Allah pronounced by itself but I found this site. It has the Athan (call to prayer) from various countries. Interesting coincedence that it has the Athan done by Yusuf Islam! (AKA Cat Stevens).

This is the best I could do in finding Allah pronounced in Arabic. In order to help you identify where Allah is in the Athan (so that you can differentiate the word Allah from the rest of the athan), the words of the athan are:
Allah Akbar, Allah Akbar (Allah is the most greatest)
Allah Akbar, Allah Akbar
Ashadu an la ilaha il Allah (I bear witness that there is no god except Allah)
Ashadu an la ilaha il Allah
Ashadu an Mohamed arusul Allah (I bear witness that Mohamed is the messenger of Allah)
Ashadu an Mohamed arusul Allah
Hay al el sala (Come to prayer)
Hay al el sala
Hay al el falah (Come to success)
Hay al el falah
Allah Akbar, Allah Akbar
La ilaha il Allah (there is no god except Allah)

Also, here's a site where you can listen to the Holy Quran being recited by Mishary Rashid who is one of my most favourite reciters of the Quran. Al-Ikhlas (the chapter talked about earlier in Cat Stevens' post) is number 112.

MeditationMom wrote:

Now what comes to my mind is " Salemaleicum" but please help me! It is something I heard in my childhood, but I don't know what it means, how it is spelled, where the symbols and sounds come from. My feeling is it means peace be with you.
Peace be with you!

And peace be with you MeditationMom. "Al-Salam Alaykom" does indeed mean "peace be upon you". To reply, someone would say "Wa alaykom al-Salam" which means "and upon you be peace".

Peace be upon you all on the Islam forum!

CatStevens

MeditationMom

MeditationMom wrote:

Thank You CatStevens

You are more than welcome

MeditationMom wrote:

I understand he became a practising Muslim

very true

MeditationMom wrote:

"He is Allah, the One, say."

Say (i.e. say O Muhammad):He is Allah, the One

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

MeditationMom

And how do you say THANK YOU in Arabic. Thank you so much! for all these answers, links - I am learning so much.

by the_new_mr- La ilaha il Allah (there is no god except Allah)

This is the one. This is what I have been looking for. Finally after three years. At the time I was surprised, too. I actually started crying because I thought it was so beautiful and true.

Does "il" really mean "except?" Or is "but" closer? If you said in Arabic, "I need to go to bed, but first I have to get my work done", would you use "il"? Or if you said, "All but a few got into the concert" would you us "il"? I am still not so clear about the langauge - does "La" mean "there is", and "ilaha" - no god?

I feel silly to ask since the sound alone of "La ilaha il Allah" is so beautiful, it doesn't really matter. The reversal of sound alone has the truth imbedded in it.

by the_new_mr- Al-Baqara:186
"And if My servants ask thee about Me - behold, I am near; I respond to the call of him who calls, whenever he calls unto Me: let them, then, respond unto Me, and believe in Me, so that they might follow the right way."

This is wonderful. So near, indeed- closer than our own heartbeat!
There is no God...................................................................., but God!

the_new_mr

MeditationMom wrote:

And how do you say THANK YOU in Arabic. Thank you so much! for all these answers, links - I am learning so much.

You are very welcome MeditationMom! (Thank you in Arabic is "Shokran" by the way) It is my pleasure and honour to be part of your search for knowledge in this matter.

MeditationMom wrote:

Does "il" really mean "except?" Or is "but" closer? If you said in Arabic, "I need to go to bed, but first I have to get my work done", would you use "il"? Or if you said, "All but a few got into the concert" would you us "il"?

You would use "il" in the context of the second sentence ("All but a few...") but not in the first ("I need to go to bed..."). As usual, some words have two alternatives when translating from one language to another. However, that second sentence could also use the word except to be "All except a few got into the concert". In the case of "La ilaha il Allah", "il" can most definitely be translated as "but".

MeditationMom wrote:

I am still not so clear about the langauge - does "La" mean "there is", and "ilaha" - no god?

It's the other way around. "La" can mean "no" or it can be used to negate the following word which is the case here. "ilaha" is a variation of the root word "ilah" which means god (lower-case g). Allah is a variation on "ilah" as well but means the One true God. So "La ilaha" literally means "No god..." or "There is no god..."

So, "There is no god except Allah" could be "No god but Allah". They are both correct and valid translations.

MeditationMom wrote:

There is no God...................................................................., but God!

Ameen! (Amen)

the_new_mr

Remembered a verse from the Quran there reminded by

MeditationMom wrote:

So near, indeed- closer than our own heartbeat!

Qaf:16
"We verily created man and We know what his soul whispereth to him, and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein."

MeditationMom

by the_new_mr- Remembered a verse from the Quran there reminded by

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeditationMom
So near, indeed- closer than our own heartbeat!


Qaf:16
"We verily created man and We know what his soul whispereth to him, and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein."

Goosebumps! The Truth is the Truth!

- and more questions -

Does Mohammed (Peace be upon him) consider himself, or do Muslims consider Moahmmed, equal to, or higher than Jesus(Peace be upon him, too)? Are they both considered servants, messengers, prophets?

How do Muslims/Christians think about the difference between them, with Jesus reporting to be communing with "his Father in Heaven"/God directly, and Mohammed talking and taking instruction form Gabriel. Are the words of Gabriel considered equal to the word of God/Allah? How does that also compare to Moses' hearing the voice of God "directly". Would Christians/Jews claim "direct" contact with God/Allah and not recognise Mohammed because of that, or would Muslims say it is the same or even better because of a higher truth revealed? I can imagine all of that being a huge little war going on between the faiths.

Also please explain to me the significance of Gabriel, versus some of the other "big dude" angles.

To me it is all the same, the truth of God coming through, differently depending on the brain/radio/culture receiving it. But I am interested in how the various groups interpret it all.

This is way too much fun to be able to ask all these questions. Thank you so much again for taking the time to explain it all to me. Shokran, shokran.

Thank you also for my language lessons. Between "Shokran", "Al-Salam Alaykom" and "La ilaha il Allah" my Arabic vocabulary is almost complete. Today's requests are - how do you say "You're welcome" and "I love you" to a man, woman, child, brother, sister, friend or grandmother? Also how do you say in Arabic "God knows best", "God willing" or "I see or greet God in you"- if that exists, like "Namaste" in Hindi?
Is there an equivalent to "Bless You"?
Bless You!

Wibbs

I seem to remember that inshAllah is God willing. Well it sounds like that anyway. Cue the new Mr smacking me over the head with an Arabic phrasebook fo that spelling....:D

the_new_mr

MeditationMom wrote:

Thank you so much again for taking the time to explain it all to me. Shokran, shokran.

Always a pleasure

MeditationMom wrote:

Does Mohammed (Peace be upon him) consider himself, or do Muslims consider Moahmmed, equal to, or higher than Jesus(Peace be upon him, too)? Are they both considered servants, messengers, prophets?

I think the best way to answer this is by quoting from the Quran.

Al-Baqara:285
"The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) the believers. Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers--We make no distinction between any of His messengers--and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying."

Mohamed (peace be upon him) is the seal of the Prophets.

Al-Ahzab:40
"Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is Aware of all things."

MeditationMom wrote:

How do Muslims/Christians think about the difference between them, with Jesus reporting to be communing with "his Father in Heaven"/God directly, and Mohammed talking and taking instruction form Gabriel. Are the words of Gabriel considered equal to the word of God/Allah?

Well, I can't speak for Christians' view of Mohamed (peace be upon him). As for the Muslim view of Jesus (peace be upon him), he is held in very high esteem (as are all prophets). Both he and his mother, the virgin Mary, are talked about often in the Quran and an entire chapter in the Quran is entitled Mary. The main difference between the Muslim and Christian view of Jesus (peace be upon him) is that, in Islam, we don't believe that he is God or the son of God. This is in keeping with "La ilaha il Allah".

The words of Gabriel are certainly not considered equal to that of the words of God. God's words are far above anyone else's. Muslims believe that the words revealed to Mohamed are God's words revealed to him through the angel Gabriel (like a link of communication).

MeditationMom wrote:

How does that also compare to Moses' hearing the voice of God "directly". Would Christians/Jews claim "direct" contact with God/Allah and not recognise Mohammed because of that, or would Muslims say it is the same or even better because of a higher truth revealed?

Well, Islam does not consider one Prophet higher in status to another because of whether or not they met God during the life of this world or whether or not they heard God's words directly (likes Moses (peace be upon him) and the burning bush). As it happens, Muslims believe that the Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) met God in heaven during the journey titled "Al-Isra wa Al-Miraj" by allowing him to transcend the regular planes of our normal existence.

MeditationMom wrote:

Also please explain to me the significance of Gabriel, versus some of the other "big dude" angles.

The angel Gabriel is seen as the main angel responsible for any missions of communication to earth. He was the one that informed Mary (peace be upon her) that she would give birth to Jesus (peace be upon him) and he was the one responsible for delivering the Quran to Mohamed (peace be upon him). I'm sure that he did other missions as well but my limited knowledge doesn't allow me tell you anymore unfortuantely.

As for other important angels, there is Adzraeel (the angel of death). Harut and Marut were used as a means for testing people of their obedience to God. There is also the angel Malik who is responsible for governing hell. There are various other angels responsible for other actions such as one for recording good deeds and one for recording bad deeds for each individual.

MeditationMom wrote:

Thank you also for my language lessons. Between "Shokran", "Al-Salam Alaykom" and "La ilaha il Allah" my Arabic vocabulary is almost complete.

You are most welcome

Wibbs wrote:

I seem to remember that inshAllah is God willing. Well it sounds like that anyway. Cue the new Mr smacking me over the head with an Arabic phrasebook fo that spelling....:D

That's okay Wibbs, I won't hit you over the head with an arabic phrasebook... yet Seriously though, you very almost had it. Good job. God willing is "Insha Allah". It doesn't really have a correct spelling since it's transliteration after all but there's an 'a' sound at the end of the first word.

As for the rest of the requests:

'Afwan - You're welcome
Ana ohebook - I love you
Allahu 'alam - God knows best
Rabena yabarikilik - [Our Lord] Bless You

There's no equivalent for "I see or greet God in you" since Islam isn't with the idea that God can be inside someone.

The amostrophe before the letter a is a substitute for a letter not present in english. Quite impossible to explain what it sounds like really on the forum Just making the A sound by itself should do for now

MeditationMom

Dear Friends here in the Islamic Forum-

A new question - in the atheist and christian forum there is a discussion on whether "God is Love". This is a common statement. God is Love, God is Truth etc and there are many other "names" like "I am" and such.

Is there something like "Allah is Love" Allah is Truth" and other names for Allah also? What are the most common?

Could one say "Allah is nothing but Love"?
Also, should I say (peace be upon him) after Allah also? Or is Allah considered to be Peace, and one does not make a wish for his peace?

Al-Salam Alaykom

the_new_mr

Wa Alaykom Al-Salam MeditationMom! Nice to see you back here

As said before, one of the ways that God allows us to know who He is and to know more about His attributes is by the names with which He calls Himself in the Quran and how the Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) referred to God in his sayings.

An example:

Al-Hashr:22-24
"He is Allah, than whom there is no other God, the Knower of the invisible and the visible. He is the Beneficent, the Merciful.; He is Allah, than whom there is no other God, the Sovereign Lord the Holy One, Peace, the Keeper of Faith, the Guardian, the Majestic, the Compeller, the Superb. Glorified be Allah from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him).; He is Allah, the Creator, the Shaper out of naught, the Fashioner. His are the most beautiful names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Him, and He is the Mighty, the Wise."

MeditationMom wrote:

Is there something like "Allah is Love" Allah is Truth" and other names for Allah also? What are the most common?

Well, Allah is the most common and the other names are all used according to the situation that the person may find themselves in. For example, if someone is seeking forgivnees then they may say: "Oh Allah! Forgiver and Accepter of Repentance" or if someone is seeking guidance then they might say: "Oh Guider! Guide me" or something like that. Allah is known as Al-Haqq (The Truth) and Al-Wudud (The Loving One).

MeditationMom wrote:

Could one say "Allah is nothing but Love"?

Such a statement limits Allah to only love when He is able for love and so much more.

A quick google got me this site.

MeditationMom wrote:

Also, should I say (peace be upon him) after Allah also? Or is Allah considered to be Peace, and one does not make a wish for his peace?

Once again, your desire to be respectful must be commended. As far as I know, you don't have to say anything after saying God or Allah but you can say Subhanahu wa ta'ala (praised and exalted is He) which is sometimes shortened to swt.

//Edit
You might like to check out this thread.

babyvaio

MeditationMom wrote:

Dear Friends here in the Islamic Forum-

A new question - in the atheist and christian forum there is a discussion on whether "God is Love". This is a common statement. God is Love, God is Truth etc and there are many other "names" like "I am" and such.

Is there something like "Allah is Love" Allah is Truth" and other names for Allah also? What are the most common?

Could one say "Allah is nothing but Love"?
Also, should I say (peace be upon him) after Allah also? Or is Allah considered to be Peace, and one does not make a wish for his peace?

Al-Salam Alaykom

Surah/Chapter 024 - An-Nûr. Verse 35.

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth.
The similitude of His Light is as a niche wherein is a lamp.
The lamp is in a glass.
The glass is as it were a shining star.
(This lamp is) kindled from a blessed tree,
an olive neither of the East nor of the West,
whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself) though no fire touched it.
Light upon light, Allah guideth unto His Light whom He will.
And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is knower of all things.

MeditationMom

Shokran, my friends. You are helping me understand Islam better than I could understand it by just reading and googling about it myself. Your kindness and your own understanding of your scriputures is my best teacher. Thank you so very much.

The infinite names of Allah (swt) are most beautiful, each one worthy of years of contemplation.

Do you think that it is helpful for a deeper understanding of God or Allah(swt) to substitute these exalted ideas as names, to get away from an image of a wise old man in the sky? There are advantages and disadvantages for different people to either personify God or Allah(swt), or to think of him as beyond personhood, more along the lines of Peace, Love, Infinity, Justice etc. Do you think that that is why we are not supposed to make images? Somewhere in the Bible I believe there are also instructions about not making images, but it doesn't seem to be such a strict rule in Christianity with all its art.

For me somehow it has all blended together over time and I know we are all talking about the same Truth, but in our limited human ways. All these beautiful names touched me deeply when I read them. Thank you, again, also for the beautiful surah, Babyvaio, describing Allah as this Light upon Light.

Al-Salam Alaykom

the_new_mr

Wa Alaykom Al Salam

MeditationMom wrote:

Shokran, my friends.

'Afwan

MeditationMom wrote:

Your kindness and your own understanding of your scriputures is my best teacher. Thank you so very much.

We try our best. May Allah accept our efforts. If we have made any mistakes then be sure that they are ours and may God forgive us for them.

MeditationMom wrote:

Do you think that it is helpful for a deeper understanding of God or Allah(swt) to substitute these exalted ideas as names, to get away from an image of a wise old man in the sky?

I honestly do think that this personifying of God is a bad thing because when people imagine Him as this old man that you mentioned then a few things happen. One is that they begin to unavoidably have a limit of the concept of God in their minds when in fact God exceeds the possibilities of any human mind.

Another bad thing that happens is that some people begin to feel that they are equal with God in some ways. I believe this is one of the reasons why people ask questions like "Why would God do this?" or "Why would God do that?" and say things like "Wouldn't it be better if God had done this?" and things like that. Subhan Allah (glory is to God), what frightfully arrogant things to say!!

And the worst part of this personification of God is that people find it easier to make jokes about God.

I honestly believe 100% that the names of God that He has called Himself with are enough to understand the nature of God as much as we need to in the life of this world.

Actually, the episode of Bismka nahya today was talking about God's name "Al-Wudood" (The Loving One). It was a particularly good episode. Think you'd like it since you asked if there were any connections with God and the name love. Not sure when you're going to see this post but it's going to be repeated on Iqra TV at 4:30 am Irish time (just over 3 hours from now). You can watch it live on the net. More in this thread.

If you miss the broadcast then you can always watch it again on amrkhaled.net but the quality will be a lot lower and it will be harder to read the subtitles.

the_new_mr

The episode of Bismaka nahya today was about the name "Al-Haqq" (The Truth). Strange coincedence that it came right after Al-Wudood after the conversations on this thread