Interesting Stuff Thread

ShooterSF

Anyone else freaking out at the guitar floating towards expensive looking equipment??

robindch

According to figures released by the Church of England, "the majority of people do not engage in religious practice, nor have religious beliefs, nor a religious identity":

http://humanism.org.uk/2013/05/07/church-statistics-show-continued-decline-call-into-question-establishment/

Only 2% go to church every week? One can certainly look wish for a similar day in Ireland.

Liamario

religion heading to extinction in 9 countries

robindch

I think that's Hadfield On Earth

seamus

ShooterSF wrote: »

Anyone else freaking out at the guitar floating towards expensive looking equipment??

I know, the damage that could be done to the guitar, doesn't bear thinking about.

I wonder is that officially the first (only?) song to have been recorded and the first music video shot in orbit?

Turtwig

seamus wrote: »

I know, the damage that could be done to the guitar, doesn't bear thinking about.

I wonder is that officially the first (only?) song to have been recorded and the first music video shot in orbit?

Nope there's at least one before him. The astronaut who's a member of Max Q* often played tunes in the Shuttle that were recorded on video.


*Mr Hadfield is actually a member, so it may even have been him. I just can't recall, the shuttle is like so retro now.
Think. Mr Hadfield himself features in this video?(Endeavours last flight.)

Edit : Nope that's not Hadfield. It's Greg Johnson.

Sarky

This cheered me up on an otherwise dull and unproductive day:

A chocolate cake depicting the Bristol Stool Chart.

Turtwig

On the subject of space vids. (I may dig up my fav shuttle vids. Shuttles FTW.)
Anyways, this was a rather unique duet. One person on earth; the other in earth's orbit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeC4nqBB5BM

joseph brand

robindch wrote: »

According to figures released by the Church of England, "the majority of people do not engage in religious practice, nor have religious beliefs, nor a religious identity":

http://humanism.org.uk/2013/05/07/church-statistics-show-continued-decline-call-into-question-establishment/

Only 2% go to church every week? One can certainly look wish for a similar day in Ireland.

Related.

Church Disputes Decline of Religion Indicated by Census. (Estonia)

The Evangelical Lutheran Church cast doubt on statistics revealed Monday indicating that Estonians, widely considered a secular people, have veered even further from the Church.
Chancellor Urmas Viilma told uudised.err.ee that the survey questions at hand, given to respondents as part of the 2011 Census, were manipulated to achieve a desired result.
He further argued that children under the age of 15 were not surveyed, leaving out a large portion of society.
The census results also found that 50 percent of respondents who were non-ethnic Estonians identified themselves as people of faith, as opposed to 19 percent of ethnic Estonians.

"Not fair!" "You didn't ask the children!"

Anyway, 19% is pretty low and only getting lower.

Turtwig

His Mighty Sarklor plugged some stuff recently. I'm going to do the same. Very good quality blog imo on a number of matters. These posts on superstition and the sea were a fun read.

randomdescent wrote:

. . .
The sea has captured imaginations and hearts for aeons. When researching this article, I was astounded at the wealth of folklore, legends and superstitions attached to the sea. Such are the wealth of beliefs about bad luck, it’s a wonder anyone ever sailed anywhere.

It was bad luck to sail on a Friday, as that was the day Jesus was crucified. Thursdays were out as it was the day of Thor, the Norse god of thunder. You should never start a voyage on the first Monday of April (the day Cain killed Abel) or the second Monday of August (the day God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah). New Year’s Eve was considered another unlucky time. The best day to set sail was a Sunday, as it had divine approval; “Sunday sail, never fail”.

But before you found the right day to sail, you should ensure your ship wasn’t intrinsically unlucky. Women were considered a curse on board. For practical reasons, women distracted the men aboard; they also were considered incapable of hard physical work. However, they were believed to anger the sea. Interestingly, one of the ways to placate the sea was to have a naked woman on board. Understandably, many women preferred to keep their clothes on, so that is why many ships’ figureheads depict nude ladies.

Another way to make sure your ship was lucky was to have a bit of stolen or borrowed wood built into the keel (the skeleton of the boat). It is believed to help the ship sail faster. . .

Source.

randomdescent wrote:

We have already established that women were unlucky aboard a ship, but so too were priests. Their wearing of the colour black (the colour associated with death), their ability to conduct funeral and last-rite services marked them out as too close to the Almighty by far. Another more pagan interpretation is that the sea has its own gods, and bringing aboard a priest would offend them. It was even unlucky to speak of priests on board, and they were to be referred to as ‘the man with the collar’ instead.

Some poor sailor, or on occasion, a passenger, could be referred to as a Jonah. Like the biblical figure who found himself swallowed by a whale, it meant that they were bad luck for the ship. A Jonah could be anyone, either someone who had survived previous shipwrecks (Uncle Albert in Only Fools and Horses springs to mind) or had the misfortune to board during a drought of fish.

Source.

Strongly recommend reading both.
Perhaps Ban or some other posters can also shed light on how credible these superstitions were perceived to be?

Bannasidhe

The Down Survey....:D:D:D:D:D:D

http://phaedrus.cs.tcd.ie/petty/petty/landowners.php#mc=51.930282,-8.400197&z=6


I'm as giddy as a school girl.


Interesting trivia - It is called the 'Down' survey as they used pre-cut lengths of chain to measure distances. They laid the chains down...

Sarky

Jernal wrote: »

His Mighty Sarklor plugged some stuff recently.

Did I? Was this while I was off my face on painkillers for my back?

Kivaro

Liamario wrote: »

religion heading to extinction in 9 countries

Australia, Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland are the countries mentioned.

One can only hope that the greatest con job in the history of mankind will just go away and leave us in peace.

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

Did I? Was this while I was off my face on painkillers for my back?

I acquired an avatar while off my face on painkillers for my back.

robindch

Vincent Browne compares Irish leaders then and now.

BTW, boys could stay out late because, well, they're boys.

Vincent Browne wrote:

The preoccupations of the Irish Catholic hierarchy in the early years of the State were the twin and related evils of company-keeping and dancing and the subversion of the morality of the Irish people caused by the importation of indecent and obscene literature, notably English Sunday newspapers (company-keeping was the practice whereby unmarried couples would spend time with each other alone).

In 1926 the then archbishop of Tuam, Thomas Gilmartin, warned: “In recent years the dangerous locations of sin have been multiplied. The old Irish dances have been discarded for foreign importations which, according to all accounts, lend themselves not so much to rhythm as to low sensuality . . . Company-keeping under the stars of night has succeeded, in too many places, the good old Irish custom of visiting, chatting and storytelling from one house to another, with the rosary to bring all home in due time.” This prelate also advised fathers: “If your girls do not obey you, if they are not in at the hours appointed, lay the lash upon their backs.”

The Catholic bishops as a whole had issued a statement in 1925 which read: “The surroundings of the dancing hall, withdrawal from the hall for intervals, and the back ways home have been the destruction of virtue in every part of Ireland.” The agitation of the bishops prompted the Cumann na nGaedheal government to arrange for the enactment of the Censorship of Publications Act 1927 which gave to the five members of the censorship of publications board the power to prohibit the sale and distribution of a book which was considered “in its general tendency, indecent or obscene” and of any periodical (including newspapers) that were considered to have “unusually or frequently been indecent or obscene”. It also made the publishing, selling or distribution of literature advocating birth control an offence. Later on, a special tax was placed on imported newspapers.

Later still the Public Dance Halls Act was passed, which sought to regulate the circumstances in which dancing in public could take place either in the open air or otherwise. On taking office in 1932 Éamon de Valera sent a message on behalf of his government of “respectful homage and good wishes” to pope Pius XI and assured him of “our intention to maintain with the Holy See that intimate and cordial relationship which has become tradition of the Irish people”. A few weeks later at the commencement of the Eucharistic Congress, de Valera told the papal legate that the Irish people were “ever firm in their allegiance to our ancestral faith”. The 1937 Constitution had a very distinctive Catholic flavour although the Vatican was displeased that the Catholic flavour was inadequately pronounced.

On coming into office in 1948 the first inter-party government, led by John Costello, sent a message to the then pontiff stating: “On the occasion of our assumption of office and of the first Cabinet meeting, my colleagues and myself desire to repose at the feet of your Holiness the assurance of our filial and of our devotion to your August Person, as well as our firm resolve to be guided in all our work by the teaching of Christ, and to strive for the attainment of the social order in Ireland based on Christian principles.”

In 1950 the then minister for health, Noel Browne, sought to introduce a mother-and-child scheme which had the following features: a free, non means-tested medical scheme for all mothers in respect of motherhood and children (children up to the age of 16); this to be provided in the main by dispensary doctors; the doctors would keep records of the illnesses of their patients; and the doctors would give health guidance to the mothers and children. The bishops objected in principle to the free-for-all scheme and to the proposal that doctors would provide health guidance on the grounds that this might result in doctors giving guidance on birth control and abortion. The government capitulated.

Costello, in the ensuing Dáil debate, said: “I, as a Catholic, obey my church authorities and will continue to do so . . . There will be no flouting of the authority of the bishops in the matter of Catholic social or moral teaching.” The minister for external affairs, leader of one of the coalition parties and former leader of the IRA, Seán McBride, said: “Those of us in this House who are Catholics, and all of us in the government who are Catholics, are, as such of course, bound to give obedience to the rulings of our church and our hierarchy”. Noel Browne said: “I, as a Catholic, accept unequivocally and unreservedly the view of the hierarchy on this matter.”

Enda Kenny, on being challenged by the Catholic hierarchy on legislation for abortion in accordance with the Supreme Court ruling in the X case said on May 6th, 2013: “My book is the Constitution . . . That’s the people’s book and we live in a republic and I have a duty and responsibility, as head of government, to legislate in respect of what the people’s wishes are”. In response to the threat of excommunication from the Catholic Church, he said: “I have my own way of speaking to my God.”

PopePalpatine

I always read his IT articles in his voice. :pac:

kylith

robindch wrote: »

Vincent Browne compares Irish leaders then and now.

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Wow. Well, that explains why the church are so bolshy about the coming legislation; they're not used to the government not kowtowing to them. Good thing Enda knows that if he's seen deferring to the wishes of the church in this day and age his career would be in trouble.

robindch

Researchers in the US clone stem cells.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/us-scientists-clone-human-stem-cells-1.1394629

FouxDaFaFa

The al-Zaatari refugee camp in Jordan is on course to becoming the largest in the world. (It's still lagging considerably behind a Somali camp in Kenya but its rate of growth is incredible).

Not only are the numbers of refugees obviously expensive, the camp has actually become the fifth largest population centre in the country.

How Jordan handles this is more political than you might imagine.

PopePalpatine

Right now on Moncrieff, there's some guy promoting a guy who investigates miracles to see if there was any truth in them. I feared he might be some uber-Catholic who finds the flimsiest proof for miracles, but actually he is very interesting. He's nearly finished, but you can probably listen back to him for the next 7 days on Newstalk's website.

recedite

Liamario wrote: »

religion heading to extinction in 9 countries

I had a closer look to see what reasons are given, but there are no reasons....

the model indicates that in these societies the perceived utility of religious non-affiliation is greater than that of adhering to a religion, and therefore predicts continued growth of non-affilliation, tending toward the disappearance of religion

I doubt there is any "utility" to non affiliation. Lack of utility may be the reason for the decline of a spoken language, but the reasons people may have a religious belief are different. This mathematical model predicting the demise of religion may well be correct, but the underlying causes of the decline are not revealed by the maths. More likely cause are improved education and access to information. In other words, people don't lose their faith because its more useful to them to become an atheist or agnostic. Its the other way round; they don't buy into religion because there's no reason to. The "perceived utility" of religion is probably less than it used to be alright, but that is not the same as saying that there is a utility to be had from declaring yourself as non religious.
BTW anybody got Bob Geldof in their head now? No particular reason :pac:

[-0-]

Nothing to do with atheism.

Posting here because I love you folks and you're all intelligent people.

This makes me want to leave the country I recently moved to. Apologies if some of the links are screwed up.

Uncle Sam's Misguided Children - Police state madness - more and more children being arrested for trivial things - things we all got up to as kids:

#1 At one public school down in Texas, a 12-year-old girl named Sarah Bustamantes was recently arrested for spraying herself with perfume.

#2 A 13-year-old student at a school in Albuquerque, New Mexico was recently arrested by police for burping in class.

#3 Another student down in Albuquerque was forced to strip down to his underwear while five adults watched because he had $200 in his pocket. The student was never formally charged with doing anything wrong.

#4 A security guard at one school in California broke the arm of a 16-year-old girl because she left some crumbs on the floor after cleaning up some cake that she had spilled.

#5 One teenage couple down in Houston poured milk on each other during a squabble while they were breaking up. Instead of being sent to see the principal, they were arrested and sent to court.

#6 In early 2010, a 12-year-old girl at a school in Forest Hills, New York was arrested by police and marched out of her school in handcuffs just because she doodled on her desk. "I love my friends Abby and Faith" was what she reportedly scribbled on her desk.

#7 A 6-year-old girl down in Florida was handcuffed and sent to a mental facility after throwing temper tantrums at her elementary school.

#8 One student down in Texas was reportedly arrested by police for throwing paper airplanes in class.

#9 A 17-year-old honor student in North Carolina named Ashley Smithwick accidentally took her father's lunch with her to school. It contained a small paring knife which he would use to slice up apples. So what happened to this standout student when the school discovered this? The school suspended her for the rest of the year and the police charged her with a misdemeanor.

#10 In Allentown, Pennsylvania a 14-year-old girl was tasered in the groin area by a school security officer even though she had put up her hands in the air to surrender.

#11 Down in Florida, an 11-year-old student was arrested, thrown in jail and charged with a third-degree felony for bringing a plastic butter knife to school.

#12 Back in 2009, an 8-year-old boy in Massachusetts was sent home from school and was forced to undergo a psychological evaluation because he drew a picture of Jesus on the cross.

#13 A police officer in San Mateo, California blasted a 7-year-old special education student in the face with pepper spray because he would not quit climbing on the furniture.

#14 In America today, even 5-year-old children are treated brutally by police. The following is from a recent article that described what happened to one very young student in Stockton, California a while back....

"Earlier this year, a Stockton student was handcuffed with zip ties on his hands and feet, forced to go to the hospital for a psychiatric evaluation and was charged with battery on a police officer. That student was 5 years old".

#15 At one school in Connecticut, a 17-year-old boy was thrown to the floor and tasered five times because he was yelling at a cafeteria worker.

#16 A teenager in suburban Dallas was forced to take on a part-time job after being ticketed for using foul language in one high school classroom. The original ticket was for $340, but additional fees have raised the total bill to $637.

#17 A few months ago, police were called out when a little girl kissed a little boy during a physical education class at an elementary school down in Florida.

#18 A 6-year-old boy was recently charged with sexual battery for some "inappropriate touching" during a game of tag at one elementary school in the San Francisco area.

#19 In Massachusetts, police were recently sent out to collect an overdue library book from a 5-year-old girl.

HERE ARE THE LINKS FOR THOSE WHO FEEL THIS PAGE MADE ALL THIS UP:

http://www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com/notitas-de-noticias/details/texas-student-sarah-bustamantes-12-arrested-for-spraying-perfume/13250/

http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=15077292

Check out this video on YouTube:http://youtu.be/wk2b_twCCdw

http://m.guardiannews.com/world/2012/jan/09/texas-police-schools?cat=world&type=article

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/18/new.york.doodle.arrest/index.html?hpt=C1

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2010/feb/11/port-st-lucie-schools-confines-6-year-old-with/

http://m.guardiannews.com/world/2012/jan/09/texas-police-schools?cat=world&type=article

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/29/nc-high-school-senior-suspended-charged-possesion-small-knife-lunchbox/#

http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/2009/june09/zero-tolerance-states.html

http://m.tauntongazette.com/wkdTGazette/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/San-Mateo-pays-family-of-boy-pepper-sprayed-by-cop-2384518.php

http://django.medianewsgroup.com/mobile/interstitial/?r=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.middletownpress.com%2Farticles%2F2011%2F06%2F14%2Fnews%2Fdoc4df7b12331ec9768149316.txt %3Fmobredir%3Dfalse&d=iphone

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/cops-called-for-school-kiss-657831

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/01/27/hercules-family-battles-playground-sex-assault-claim-against-6-year-old/

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/01/02/charlton-library-sends-police-to-collect-overdue-books-from-5-year-old/ — with Your Son or Daughter next

FouxDaFaFa

I heard about the girl who was arrested for making one of those little bottle explosion things for a science project. It had about as much "firepower" as dropping a mentos in a bottle of coke but she was charged with something crazy like manufacturing explosives.

Here she is. She was expelled but after a bit of press attention, won't be charged with adult felonies like was originally proposed.

kylith

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

I heard about the girl who was arrested for making one of those little bottle explosion things for a science project. It had about as much "firepower" as dropping a mentos in a bottle of coke but she was charged with something crazy like manufacturing explosives.

Here she is. She was expelled but after a bit of press attention, won't be charged with adult felonies like was originally proposed.

I came across some info on this that suggested she may not have been as innocent as she claimed; apparently it was a device made of tinfoil and drain cleaner, is unstable, it's impossible to gauge how big the reaction will be or how long it will take, was set off without school permission - in a school which has a zero tolerance policy for, well, explosive devices, and is well known in the states as a bomb for blowing up mailboxes so chances are that if she was doing it she knew, essentially, what was going to happen. The chemicals involved are super-mega dangerous, and could have caused chemical burns to anyone who'd been unlucky enough to be splashed.

Basically she filled a bottle with hydrochloric acid, and then put in tin foil to cause a reaction; which increased the pressure in the bottle till it exploded, showering the area with boiling acid. I'm really not surprised that she was expelled.

Apparently it's called a 'works bomb'. Here's a link to a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgDhizxCeIY

FouxDaFaFa

^^

Welp.

A lot of the press I've read has seriously downplayed the danger involved and gone with the "look at this poor girl locked up for being curious" line.
I guess there has to be consequences for something like that, even if she didn't fully understand the danger.

Sycopat

kylith wrote: »

I came across some info on this that suggested she may not have been as innocent as she claimed; apparently it was a device made of tinfoil and drain cleaner, is unstable, it's impossible to gauge how big the reaction will be or how long it will take, was set off without school permission - in a school which has a zero tolerance policy for, well, explosive devices, and is well known in the states as a bomb for blowing up mailboxes so chances are that if she was doing it she knew, essentially, what was going to happen. The chemicals involved are super-mega dangerous, and could have caused chemical burns to anyone who'd been unlucky enough to be splashed.

Basically she filled a bottle with hydrochloric acid, and then put in tin foil to cause a reaction; which increased the pressure in the bottle till it exploded, showering the area with boiling acid. I'm really not surprised that she was expelled.

Apparently it's called a 'works bomb'. Here's a link to a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgDhizxCeIY

It's called a works bomb because it's the brand of toilet cleaner usually used to make it.

The explosion is caused by pressure building up in the bottle from the release of gas.

Technically there's no explosion,as the gas release is not quick enough. The effect of one is caused by the bottle bursting. The unpredictability comes from the variable ability of the bottle to withstand the pressure, and amount of wax on the foil. It wouldn't actually work if the reaction was explosive, as you wouldn't be able to get the lid on the bottle quick enough.

The burns you can get from it are the same burns you'll get if you pour toilet cleaner on yourself.

I'm not aware whether or not there are any toilet cleaners on the irish market are HCl based, but I do know they tend to be low pH (toilet duck is ~2.5 I think)

I'm not going to say it's the safest thing in the world to do or have done, and some punishment is likely in order but calling it 'super-mega dangerous' is ridiculously over the top, and 'showering in boiling acid' is likewise scaremonger-y. (And I'm not sure the acid can be considered to be boiling.)

The biggest thing about these bombs is the noise.

I'm not really surprised the school reacted the way it did, but I do think it's a massive over-reaction indicative of the stupidity of trying to apply zero tolerance policies to children.

Fireworks are more dangerous and actually illegal here, but you don't see many kids getting expelled for letting one off in school.

Bannasidhe

[-0-] wrote: »

Nothing to do with atheism.

Posting here because I love you folks and you're all intelligent people.

This makes me want to leave the country I recently moved to. Apologies if some of the links are screwed up.

:eek:

Dear Paternal Great-Granny - thank you for leaving your youngest daughter in Ireland when you moved to 'Merica in 1902.

Dear Maternal Nan - thank you for returning to Ireland when Honey got that job with the P&T in 1933.

Dear Mam - thank you for telling my Dad your children would grow up in 'Merica over your dead body when he moved there in 1968.


D'know on reflection nuttin wrong with Ireland we can't fix if we put our backs into it....

kylith

Sycopat wrote: »

It's called a works bomb because it's the brand of toilet cleaner usually used to make it.

The explosion is caused by pressure building up in the bottle from the release of gas.

Technically there's no explosion,as the gas release is not quick enough. The effect of one is caused by the bottle bursting. The unpredictability comes from the variable ability of the bottle to withstand the pressure, and amount of wax on the foil. It wouldn't actually work if the reaction was explosive, as you wouldn't be able to get the lid on the bottle quick enough.

The burns you can get from it are the same burns you'll get if you pour toilet cleaner on yourself.

I'm not aware whether or not there are any toilet cleaners on the irish market are HCl based, but I do know they tend to be low pH (toilet duck is ~2.5 I think)

I believe that there are. I got a bottle of this in a shop, was told it was acid, which is borne out by the website, and was given a long lecture on 'do not let it touch your skin, don't inhale it, don't leave it anywhere where anyone might accidentally touch it'. I don't know what letting it touch skin would do first hand, but the sizzling and the smell as it dissolved the hair in my plughole would certainly tell me to stay well away from it.

I'm not going to say it's the safest thing in the world to do or have done, and some punishment is likely in order but calling it 'super-mega dangerous' is ridiculously over the top, and 'showering in boiling acid' is likewise scaremonger-y. (And I'm not sure the acid can be considered to be boiling.)

Here are the sort of burns drain unblocker can cause. I'm sorry if you think that I'm overreacting by calling it 'super-mega dangerous', but it's hardly like being snuggled by bunnies.

The biggest thing about these bombs is the noise.

I would have to disagree, what with the acid and everything

I'm not really surprised the school reacted the way it did, but I do think it's a massive over-reaction indicative of the stupidity of trying to apply zero tolerance policies to children.

This girl was more than old enough to be aware that 'don't build explosive devices in school, or we'll expel you', means what it says

Fireworks are more dangerous and actually illegal here, but you don't see many kids getting expelled for letting one off in school.

How many kids let off fireworks in schools?

Obliq

Jaysus, just as well it was a clear 25 years ago and not in the US when I was *ahem* an accessory to blowing up the school toilets. I'd probably still be locked up....







disclaimer: I did not do chemistry and did not know about potassium and water....poor defense, but only defense. Sigh

Sycopat

kylith wrote: »

I believe that there are. I got a bottle of this in a shop, was told it was acid, which is borne out by the website, and was given a long lecture on 'do not let it touch your skin, don't inhale it, don't leave it anywhere where anyone might accidentally touch it'. I don't know what letting it touch skin would do first hand, but the sizzling and the smell as it dissolved the hair in my plughole would certainly tell me to stay well away from it.

There are definitely acidic ones. An acid is anything with a pH below 7. Hence the point of mentioning toilet ducks low pH. The acid specifically used in these bombs are HCl. I don't know if it works with other acid types (Though it is possible that it would).

And a lot of the time with drain unblockers it's Sodium hydroxide is the active ingredient. Which is a base. (And that stuff really is truly nasty if you get it on you.) Other times it's sulphuric acid, again particularly nasty if you get it on you.

HCl can be dangerous at very high concentrations, I don't know the molarity of this works stuff though, without that neither of us can really comment on the strength of it.

I can see this possibly causing minor burns to someone if it went off too close to them, which would indicate a disregard to safety on either there or the makers behalf. I can see this blinding people who stupidly get way too close or set it off beside someone. And I can see this going off with people a safe distance away and causing no damage to anyone or anything. In this case, the last one actually happened, but she's getting punished as if she did one of the other things.

Here are the sort of burns drain unblocker can cause. I'm sorry if you think that I'm overreacting by calling it 'super-mega dangerous', but it's hardly like being snuggled by bunnies.

No it isn't and I didn't say it was safe either. But a dilute acid, handled with a bit of respect, can be harmless. I now think you're overreacting for calling it super mega dangerous, and thinking the only alternative to 'super-mega dangerous' is being snuggled by bunnies.

I would have to disagree, what with the acid and everything

Milk is an acid.

Acids aren't scary. Chemicals aren't scary. They deserve respect, not fear. What's scary is the kind of person who will use them without respect. There's nothing to suggest to me this girl didn't respect what she was creating.

This girl was more than old enough to be aware that 'don't build explosive devices in school, or we'll expel you', means what it says

But is not old enough to be able to set up a potentially harmless, but impressive and fun, chemical reaction safely?

See I can see a kid being old enough to understand the rules, know how to set something like this up, and still be young enough to think they'd get away with it. (Especially if it didn't cause any harm.)

How many kids let off fireworks in schools?

Did you go to school in this country?

Every year, around halloween, school yards all over the country have fireworks going off.

Kids caught with them have them confiscated and get in trouble, but are rarely, if ever, expelled. Certainly never if they are an otherwise excellent student.

Not all of them let them off, but enough of them do that it's common.

Hell, I'd wager almost everyone has set off a weak homemade banger in school.

[-0-]

While I'm at it, this sickens me:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/five-year-sentence-for-limerick-accountant-who-sexually-abused-young-girl-594722.html

So this took place between 2002 to 2007, two to three times per week. He raped someone possibly 780 times in that time frame and he only gets five years. He got one year behind bars for for every year he raped her. One year for raping someone 156 times.

You would think, because of all priests who raped kids that very strict sentences would be handed down these days.

kylith

Sycopat wrote: »

There are definitely acidic ones. An acid is anything with a pH below 7. Hence the point of mentioning toilet ducks low pH. The acid specifically used in these bombs are HCl. I don't know if it works with other acid types (Though it is possible that it would).

And a lot of the time with drain unblockers it's Sodium hydroxide is the active ingredient. Which is a base. (And that stuff really is truly nasty if you get it on you.) Other times it's sulphuric acid, again particularly nasty if you get it on you.

HCl can be dangerous at very high concentrations, I don't know the molarity of this works stuff though, without that neither of us can really comment on the strength of it.

I can see this possibly causing minor burns to someone if it went off too close to them, which would indicate a disregard to safety on either there or the makers behalf.

Because teenagers who make homemade bombs are usually so safety concious.

It was not set up and set off by someone who knew what they were doing, who knew what a safe distance to be was. She started an unstable reaction in a sealed container on her school grounds. She is very lucky that neither she, nor anyone else, was hurt.

I can see this blinding people who stupidly get way too close or set it off beside someone. And I can see this going off with people a safe distance away and causing no damage to anyone or anything. In this case, the last one actually happened, but she's getting punished as if she did one of the other things.

So people who do dangerously stupid things shouldn't be punished because they were lucky enough not to injure themselves or someone else?

No it isn't and I didn't say it was safe either. But a dilute acid, handled with a bit of respect, can be harmless.

This Works stuff is apparently 20% HCL which, according to a safety sheet I've just come across* means burns, respiratory distress, possible cyanosis, corneal burns, and blindness. That's hardly 'harmless'. It also wasn't handled with respect. It was put into a sealed container with something she knew would react with it. This is, imo, the exact opposite of handling something 'with respect'.

I now think you're overreacting for calling it super mega dangerous, and thinking the only alternative to 'super-mega dangerous' is being snuggled by bunnies.

And I now think that you must be one incredibly literal-minded person.

Milk is an acid.

How does it compare to Hydrochloric acid?

Acids aren't scary. Chemicals aren't scary. They deserve respect, not fear.

She did not handle the acid with respect, she stuck it in a sealed container, added something she new would cause a reaction, did this on school ground, and did this without permission, supervision, or any kind of safety equipment. Just because she managed not to injure herself or anyone else doesn't mean that she didn't do anything wrong. She was incredibly reckless, and very lucky not to have been hurt.

What's scary is the kind of person who will use them without respect. There's nothing to suggest to me this girl didn't respect what she was creating.

Do you really think that what she did was in any way safe to do in a school playground with no supervision or proper safety procedures?

But is not old enough to be able to set up a potentially harmless, but impressive and fun, chemical reaction safely?

See I can see a kid being old enough to understand the rules, know how to set something like this up, and still be young enough to think they'd get away with it. (Especially if it didn't cause any harm.)

She is very lucky that it didn't cause harm. If she was curious about the reaction then I'm sure her school has science teachers who would have been help her to do it in a controlled and safe manner. She did not do this. She could have left the lid off so that the hydrogen produced would have dissipated without causing the bottle to explode. She did not do this. She could have set up the device in a field, away from other people. She didn't do this either. She knew that the bottle would explode, she behaved in a reckless and irresponsible manner, and she deserved to be punished for it. Whether purposefully or not she put herself and her fellow students in danger.

Did you go to school in this country?

Every year, around halloween, school yards all over the country have fireworks going off.

Kids caught with them have them confiscated and get in trouble, but are rarely, if ever, expelled. Certainly never if they are an otherwise excellent student.

Not all of them let them off, but enough of them do that it's common.

Yes I went to school in this country. I never saw fireworks in school. None of my siblings ever reported seeing more than fun-snaps in school. My parents, and the teachers and principals, would have come down like a ton of bricks on anyone caught with fireworks, and rightly so.

Hell, I'd wager almost everyone has set off a weak homemade banger in school.

Nope, and you know why? Because I knew as a child that things that explode are dangerous, and I knew enough to know not to mess around with them.

*http://apps.risd.edu/envirohealth_msds/MuriaticAcid20Percent.pdf

Sycopat

kylith wrote: »

Because teenagers who make homemade bombs are usually so safety concious.

It was not set up and set off by someone who knew what they were doing, who knew what a safe distance to be was. She started an unstable reaction in a sealed container on her school grounds. She is very lucky that neither she, nor anyone else, was hurt.

Why is it luck? Why isn't it she did it where no one else was around or kept people back from it? No one got hurt and no damage was caused. It was obviously premeditated, and these chemicals are dangerous if handed badly so if she wasn't trying to prevent someone getting hurt, somebody would have.

Also what's inherently wrong with an unstable reaction in a sealed container?

So people who do dangerously stupid things shouldn't be punished because they were lucky enough not to injure themselves or someone else?

Again with the luck. Luck is just a fluke of probability. Should people who do things that aren't dangerous, but might be if a different person did them, be punished because of the possibility someone else might hurt themselves.

This Works stuff is apparently 20% HCL which, according to a safety sheet I've just come across* means burns, respiratory distress, possible cyanosis, corneal burns, and blindness. That's hardly 'harmless'. It also wasn't handled with respect. It was put into a sealed container with something she knew would react with it. This is, imo, the exact opposite of handling something 'with respect'.

I know, I checked the ingrediants and MSDS. 20% is not a measure of acid concentration, and those effects can occur from many household chemicals.

Once again, I never said it was harmless. Quite the opposite. You are holding a very binary point of view about this.

And again, why is intentionally setting up a chemical reaction disrespectful, or dangerous? She managed to do it in a way that caused no harm or damage so obviously she handled it all with enough respect to avoid causing damage to anyone or anything. Is that not enough? Or would you rather people never did anything with anything that might be dangerous if they were foolish with it.

And I now think that you must be one incredibly literal-minded person.

I am, and I certainly see that as better than over reacting to everything and acting like there are only two possible points of view on anything.

How does it compare to Hydrochloric acid?

As I've already mentioned the dangerousness of HCl you must be asking for some other comparison. Here's one: Every human secretes HCl, only females secrete milk.

She did not handle the acid with respect, she stuck it in a sealed container, added something she new would cause a reaction, did this on school ground, and did this without permission, supervision, or any kind of safety equipment. Just because she managed not to injure herself or anyone else doesn't mean that she didn't do anything wrong. She was incredibly reckless, and very lucky not to have been hurt.

I haven't even said she didn't do anything wrong. I said the punishment is over the top. Again with you're hand wringing about luck. I think we're going to have to disagree on what the necessary level of respect for toilet cleaner is though.

Do you really think that what she did was in any way safe to do in a school playground with no supervision or proper safety procedures?

I think what she did could be done safely under those conditions, yes.

She is very lucky that it didn't cause harm. If she was curious about the reaction then I'm sure her school has science teachers who would have been help her to do it in a controlled and safe manner. She did not do this. She could have left the lid off so that the hydrogen produced would have dissipated without causing the bottle to explode. She did not do this. She could have set up the device in a field, away from other people. She didn't do this either. She knew that the bottle would explode, she behaved in a reckless and irresponsible manner, and she deserved to be punished for it. Whether purposefully or not she put herself and her fellow students in danger.

It's an exploding plastic bottle with toilet cleaner in it. The bang is the fun bit. And handled correctly it can be perfectly safe. And again punished, sure. Expelled is extreme.

Yes I went to school in this country. I never saw fireworks in school. None of my siblings ever reported seeing more than fun-snaps in school. My parents, and the teachers and principals, would have come down like a ton of bricks on anyone caught with fireworks, and rightly so.

Wow, I'm really not sure how you managed to avoid it. That seems utterly bizarre to me, and I say that as one of the kids who could never get fireworks. Bangers made from caps and watching other peoples stuff was the most I ever got.

You think what this girl did was bad, I've had black cats, smoke bombs and screamers fired at me* while I was in school and no one ever got expelled for it. There was even one or two actual injuries and iirc correctly someone got suspended once, but definitely no expulsions.

Nope, and you know why? Because I knew as a child that things that explode are dangerous, and I knew enough to know not to mess around with them.

*http://apps.risd.edu/envirohealth_msds/MuriaticAcid20Percent.pdf

Well if you were so safety minded as a child, why can't this girl be safety minded enough to pull something like this off safely? It's not difficult.


*not really targeted at me, more 'in my general direction'. Screamers along the playground surface were some peoples particular favourites.

Bannasidhe

Learning an awful lot about making explosive devices which is interesting as I didn't do chemistry at school. :cool:

kylith

I think we're going to have the agree to disagree on this because otherwise we'll be here saying 'Was', 'Wasn't' all night.

Sycopat

kylith wrote: »

I think we're going to have the agree to disagree on this.

Fair enough, have a good day.

kiffer

10% HCl tastes like vinegar... also the tongue is one of the fastest healing tissues in the human body, don't ask.
I would not want to be anywhere near someone making a HCl based bomb... inhaling a mist of 20% HCl would be nasty... isn't that about 6M? Or is it 2M...?
Let me check my notes.

Sycopat

kiffer wrote: »

10% HCl tastes like vinegar... also the tongue is one of the fastest healing tissues in the human body, don't ask.
I would not want to be anywhere near someone making a HCl based bomb... inhaling a mist of 20% HCl would be nasty... isn't that about 6M? Or is it 2M...?
Let me check my notes.

~5 and a half M if it's HCl by weight. Definitely not fun to get splashed with. pH < 1. (Seems excessive for toilet cleaner)

The reaction is actually a neutralising one as 6HCl + 2Al > 2AlCl3 + 3H2, although pH around time of bursting the bottle would probably still be very low.

Hotblack Desiato

Are we sure it was HCl? Drain unblockers like Drano (US) / Mr Muscle etc. (Europe) have solid pearls of NaOH and aluminium scraps. Just add water and you have a good gas/heat liberating reaction going on, would be interesting in a closed vessel especially one that takes a couple of seconds to seal up (less time to run away) and when you've no idea how much it'll take before it bursts, or what direction it's going to spray in (could produce quite a jet of spray if the bottle doesn't burst rapidly) Of course the liquid spray / mist is caustic, which is worse than acids as acids produce a burning sensation on contact, but caustics can do serious damage before pain is felt.

Concentrated HCl would still be pretty bad but isn't available for purchase in any supermarket, so would have to come from the school lab, and the school should have controls in place to stop it leaving the lab.

Hotblack Desiato

Saw this in the Politics forum - someone found a newspaper from 1975 when deValera died, and as well as the main article they scanned some ads from inside:



£5 would've been a fair bit of money then. According to Finfacts a pint of Guinness cost 38p in 1976. Elsewhere in the paper mentioned there was an order for the maximum price of cigarettes, the average for a pack of 20 was 39-41p. Average manufacturing wage in 1976 was £53.28.

Selling indulgences - not quite as no spiritual payback is mentioned (a shared mass doesn't really cut it) but it is kind of implied

Bannasidhe

ninja900 wrote: »

Saw this in the Politics forum - someone found a newspaper from 1975 when deValera died, and as well as the main article they scanned some ads from inside:



£5 would've been a fair bit of money then. According to Finfacts a pint of Guinness cost 38p in 1976. Elsewhere in the paper mentioned there was an order for the maximum price of cigarettes, the average for a pack of 20 was 39-41p. Average manufacturing wage in 1976 was £53.28.

Selling indulgences - not quite as no spiritual payback is mentioned (a shared mass doesn't really cut it) but it is kind of implied

When they were doing up St Peter and Paul's Church in Cork in the early 80s- a lovely example of Victorian Gothic - one could buy roof tiles which would be inscribed with the person's name. I bought one for a friend of mine named Genesis P-Orridge and he was delighted.
I'm still chuckling... and s/he - he was a him at the time, he is no longer a him and is now a h/er - has been over to see h/er tile. That was a hoot and a half!

I also 'bought' York Cathedral (genuine Gothic) for my mother for a minute. They specify the time on the cert and as it was coming up to 'her' time I warned her she better not declare she was 'returning it to Rome' - I was a bit nonplussed as she loudly proclaimed 'F Rome - This is for the Mórrígan!' - great acoustics in yer gothic cathedral so it echoeds for ages.

Hotblack Desiato

I'd be happy to buy a brick provided I was allowed to throw it

LOL at Genesis P-Orridge's personalised roof tile! They don't like teh gheys but will take pink pounds :rolleyes:

Some guy where I work is putting up notices about a church in Dublin city centre (can't remember which one) which is having a roof appeal, buy a slate etc. Dunno if they are doing inscriptions on them. Can I temporarily change my name to 'F**K DA POPE' or something? Any better suggestions?

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

. I bought one for a friend of mine named Genesis P-Orridge and he was delighted.
I'm still chuckling... and s/he - he was a him at the time, he is no longer a him and is now a h/er - has been over to see h/er tile. That was a hoot and a half!

Ha! Doesn't surprise me in the least that you know him/her An interesting individual I'm sure.....still have Psychic TV's "Beyond thee infinite beat" on a scratched record that weirdly sounds better with the scratch. Or it did, when I had a record player.

Bannasidhe

Obliq wrote: »

Ha! Doesn't surprise me in the least that you know him/her An interesting individual I'm sure.....still have Psychic TV's "Beyond thee infinite beat" on a scratched record that weirdly sounds better with the scratch. Or it did, when I had a record player.

I still have the three Throbbing Gristle singles with the camouflage sleeves. They are my retirement fund.

I am one of the group of people pictured on the inner sleeve of PTV's Dreams Less Sweet I was all of 18 at the time- that's my claim to avant-garde fame that is.

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I still have the three Throbbing Gristle singles with the camouflage sleeves. They are my retirement fund.

I am one of the group of people pictured on the inner sleeve of PTV's Dreams Less Sweet I was all of 18 at the time- that's my claim to avant-garde fame that is.

Ooooh! I'm impressed anyway. Good claim

Kivaro

Will Google’s new Nexus Q, the H2G2-42, be the answer to life, the universe, and everything?

H2G2-42 was submitted to the FCC for regulatory testing.

More here.

Check out the video at the bottom of the article, especially if you are a Hitchhiker's fan.

robindch

Ever wondered how powerful a plane's suction loo is?

Wonder no longer!

http://science.discovery.com/tv-shows/outrageous-acts-of-science/videos/monster-flush.htm#mkcpgn=fbsci1

With video goodness.

magicbastarder

How religions change their mind

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22250412

Hotblack Desiato

Odd that they mention Mormonism changing its doctrine in the 19th century but not a thing about its 1978 U-turn on admitting black men to the priesthood...

[-0-]

ninja900 wrote: »

Odd that they mention Mormonism changing its doctrine in the 19th century but not a thing about its 1978 U-turn on admitting black men to the priesthood...

Or about the Pope having slaves.