Driving Alone on 1st Provisional

ve

I am aware that it is currently deemed illegal under Irish law for the holder of a 1st & 3rd+ provisional license holder to drive without the supervision of a full license holder. Being a 1st provisional license holder, I have to say I only somewhat agree with this law.

For example, I'm 26, obviously completely independent from my parents and have never driven on the road up until recently. My parents didn't want me on their insurance and wanted me to be able to buy my own car and insurances, etc. It was their decision to not provide me with the use of their car whereby I would be a named driver (which is you have to admit a quite common approach). So here I am 26, saved up enough for my 1st motor and insurance. The fact that I'm >= 26 helps a lot with insurance it must be said. I did the theory test and got 40 out of 40 questions correct. I attended numerous driving lessons from a reputable (according to these forums) and recognised driving instructor, who deems me fit for the road without a shadow of a doubt.

In the next few weeks I will be buying and insuring my first car and I will not have the luxury of a fully licensed driver available at all times. Yes up until now I did walk and take the bus everywhere. However I have been refused jobs on the grounds that I don't have a drivers license. This is my main motivation for doing something about it.

I have never known anyone to get pulled over automatically for driving on their own. Anyone I have known to have this come against them, have committed another offense in conjunction, such as speeding. I do not plan on speeding, I am quite content, driving safely and could not give a feck if other drivers have a problem with me adopting this safe driving approach.

So my question is, do people here from their experience, really find it quite common for lone drivers baring 'L' plates being pulled over for that alone and given penalty points on the spot?

In some cases I think supervision is necessary, but in cases such as my own, I think the generalisation is a bit harsh when looking at all 1st provisional holders.

[edit]Oh yeah, and quite obviously I have applied for the driving test already, which I aim to pass 1st time as soon as the time comes[/edit]

Supercell

I'm 35 on a first provisional (long time biker).

Have been stopped countless times for tax and insurance checks while being alone in the car.

As long as you don't drive like an idiot then you have nothing to worry about tbh.

ve

Did you have L plates while you were on your own?

zilog_jones

I've never heard of 1st/3rd provisional drivers on their own having been stopped for that reason outside of these forums, and at least one of them was caught for speeding anyway.

AFAIK there's no specific penalty point or fine related to driving unsupervised, though technically your license is invalid (as you are not conforming to the restriction described in it) and you could potentially be fined for driving without valid insurance because of this.

I've just started driving recently and may get a car soon enough (I live with my mother but she has no car), but I do not feel confident enough to drive on my own quite yet - maybe in a few months' time. But I will probably drive on my own on my first provisional when I do feel up to it, until I apply for the test.

Anan1

To be honest, it all depends on the Guard in question. The rule regarding provisional license holders driving unaccompanied has not been enforced up to now, but that could be changing given the media attention currently being given to the issue. A far more serious problem will be if you are involved in an accident whilst unaccompanied to which the Guards are called. Given your lack of experience, this is not a possibility which I would discount lightly.

tk123

OP why don't you just get a letter from work and do the test in a few weeks since you reckon you'll pass - that way you won't have to worry abt being caught on the provisional and your insurance will drop too a good bit too?

Eoin

ve wrote:

In some cases I think supervision is necessary, but in cases such as my own, I think the generalisation is a bit harsh when looking at all 1st provisional holders.

You can't expect a case-by-case decision on this, so the only thing they can do is make generalisations about people who are on a first provisional.

Spitfire666

Agree with tk123 there but even if ya dont do that, yo u will not get in trouble for driving alone unless you are a) after commiting other offences
b) being a smart arse when stopped c) known to the guards for being a muppet/scumbag/skobe or whatever other name ya wanna call em.
I've been stopped on the n7 for being a bit over the limit and had no l-plates up and was alone and i got away with it because i was admitting what i was doing wrong and the road was otherwise empty and str8 and i told him plainly without being smart that i didnt know how to get to where i was going without being on the motorway and i couldnt bring somebody with me.
he just said that i "shouldnt" be on the motorway and if i was going to drive alone i should try not to draw attention to myself by going fast.

Basicly, your fine unless your acting the plank which you sound like your not going to do.

Mojito

Why is it that you can drive unaccompanied on your second provisional license but not on your third?

Is it that suddenly you become a dangerous driver when you get your third license?

tk123

Maybe it alternates - can you drive on alone the 4th one?!

Mojito

tk123 wrote:

Maybe it alternates - can you drive on alone the 4th one?!

With the brains we have that make up these laws it wouldn't surprise me!

_Kaiser_

Mojito wrote:

Why is it that you can drive unaccompanied on your second provisional license but not on your third?

Is it that suddenly you become a dangerous driver when you get your third license?

I think the idea is that by the time you get to your third (4 years after all), you should have already taken your test at least once and thus, as you're still on a provisional, need supervision.

Stark

ve wrote:

So my question is, do people here from their experience, really find it quite common for lone drivers baring 'L' plates being pulled over for that alone and given penalty points on the spot?

Nope.

I've been driving unaccompanied myself for 6 months now (on my second provisional atm so it's legal, was driving with parents/instructors before that). I wear my L-plates everywhere, even on motorways (not so legal) and have passed many a garda car. I've never once been pulled, or even stopped at a checkpoint where other cars were stopped.

Also, penalty points for "licence offences" haven't been introduced yet. There's a provision to introduce them in the Road Traffic act which is what causes the confusion with people saying you can get points for driving unaccompanied. I heard Cullen said that he didn't want to introduce them until the test backlog was cleared. (which won't be happening in our lifetimes I bet )

Mojito

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I think the idea is that by the time you get to your third (4 years after all), you should have already taken your test at least once and thus, as you're still on a provisional, need supervision.

Exactly! Thats all well and good about 20 years ago when you could just walk in and have a test but now thats a different story.

When was this rule first thought up?

Back then how long did you have to wait for a driving test?

If they updated this rule to correspond to today’s waiting times what licenses could you be driving on unaccompanied now? hmmm 10th, maybe more

To me it seems totally out of date that rule and may have work well 10 years ago. Anyone and everyone is driving about on the roads these days. I’ve seen car regs from countries I’ve never heard of!

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Mojito wrote:

When was this rule first thought up?

It was back in 1493 i believe

BC

The reason for the 3rd provisional rule is because you are only entitled to a
3rd provisional if you have failed your test or if you are on the waiting list for the test. Since you have 4 years of provisional licenses before you need a
3rd provisional they assume that most people getting 3rd provisionals have failed the test. Even with the waiting lists 4 years is plenty of time to have done your test.

Spitfire666

thats exactly the reason but at the same time its not very well thought out, some people get there licences as soon as they are old enough even though they know they wont have a car and by the time they get one they are on the 2nd licence and have never sat in the driver seat of a car.

zilog_jones

Mojito wrote:

Exactly! Thats all well and good about 20 years ago when you could just walk in and have a test but now thats a different story.

In case you forgot, most people 20 years ago didn't bother getting a full license - I know people who were on provisionals for decades up until the theory test and all that jazz recently.

And I remember Gay Byrne saying how back in the day he just got his license in the post office - no test or anything.

Wishbone Ash

Mojito wrote:

Why is it that you can drive unaccompanied on your second provisional license but not on your third?

This regulation was brought in to encourage people to apply as soon as possible for the driving test and pass it. The incentive was that otherwise the driver would be required to be accompanied until they did so.

zilog_jones wrote:

And I remember Gay Byrne saying how back in the day he just got his license in the post office - no test or anything.

Well not just Gay Byrne. :rolleyes: Prior to 1964 there was no driving test. One just had to apply for a licence.

tk 123 wrote:

Maybe it alternates - can you drive on alone the 4th one?!

No - one can only drive alone on the second provisional licence (where applicable).

Volvoboy

TBH, for the 1st week or so when i got into a car my mam accompanied me just to get the feel of driving, took me into town and parts where i would be driving the most after that i was on my own, and after about a month i took down the L's (i know illegal and all that jazz) but now i drive on the n4 and M50 everyday and i'm fine, i think the L's attract the attention to the gardi and the fact that you dont have a full licence driver in the car with you, thats just my op im not suggesting that you drive without L's


-VB-

Spitfire666

well even with L-plates its rare that you will get stopped in relation to being alone if you havnt done anything else wrong even if you are on the n4 or m50

Capt'n Midnight

<sigh> the only reason this is an issue is the long waiting list for driving tests, anywhere else you'd be able to go from your first lesson to passing your driving test in about two months.

But the law stands, it's a political issue to sort out the testing.

In the meantime people self certify themselves, which I feel is wrong since the vast majority of Irish drivers reckon they are better than average (the number who rate themselves worse than average is LESS than the number with provisionals !!!) TBH at times I reckon that people driving beyond the terms of their liceses should be charged with possesion of a dangerous weapon, and any accidents they are found responsible for should be treated as assault / manslaughter , because lets face it THEY took on that responsibility even though they haven't been deemed to be competant.

Spitfire666

not everybody WITH a licence is competant either. just tonight i saw a jeep pull infront of the car infront of me from a side road without even slowing down.the car infront slamed on the brakes and swerved into the oncoming lane which luckily was empty and skidded to a position which would have landed him in the other drivers back seat had he not swerved.
The other guy just kept going.