Should the Pope apologise?

punky

smemon wrote:

religion is the cause of war, not the solution to it. God is ultimately the cause of all major wars so we should fight our deep urges to go to mass, pray, draw muslim cartoons etc...

Religion is not the cause of war. Man is the cause of war. Religion is just one of the many excuses man uses to go to war. Many wars have been fought about issues that had nothing to do with religion. Atheitistic or secular regimes (think Nazis, Soviets, Maoists) killed more people in the last century than religious regimes. I'm not religious myself, but an examination of history shows you that we are the real problem, not the things we choose to believe in.


As for the Pope thing, 1. Muslims are way too sensitive and should not respond violently to any criticism of the their faith. Some of them are quite obviously insecure about their religion.
2. Given the current climate, the Pope should know better and not say anything that might add fuel to the fire of Islamic-West relations.

Edwardius

DaveMcG wrote:

He's apologised.
http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-16T115828Z_01_L14330092_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-POPE-ISLAM-COL.XML

Damnit. Ratzinger's a pussy!

Edit: Oh, he said he was sorry they found parts of the speech offensive. That's different.

Cianos

Religion isnt the cause of all wars. Wars happen because those in power want more power. Religion is a way of disguising that to get the people on your side. If it wasnt religion, it'd be something else.

Sam Vimes

projectmayhem wrote:

i think muslims need to get a grip. yeah, there's racism out there. but if a bunch of irish dudes flew some planes into buildings and i went to the attacked country, i'd expect funny looks too.

well, some irish people did a bit of blowing up if you remember? and we did get some funny looks

DaveMcG wrote:

He's apologised.
http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-16T115828Z_01_L14330092_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-POPE-ISLAM-COL.XML

god damn it. there goes papal infallibility

the article wrote:

Two churches -- neither of them Catholic -- were fire-bombed in the West Bank, although no one was hurt.

i'm sorry but i think that's just funny. they don't even know who they're pissed off at

smemon wrote:

God is ultimately the cause of all major wars

and if you're a particular braveheart actor, they were all cause by one hebrew religion

Cianos

DaveMcG wrote:

He's apologised.
http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-16T115828Z_01_L14330092_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-POPE-ISLAM-COL.XML

Fair play

Sam Vimes

Cianos wrote:

Fair play

but he didn't actually say anything wrong. what he sadi was taken out of context. how is that "fair play"? at some point we have to stop giving into these extremist retards. they shouldn't get their way simply because they can throw the biggest tantrum






disclaimer: i am not saying muslims are retards, i'm saying extremist muslims are retards, just like the ira. please don't take what i said out of context and make me apologise

jaggeh

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-16T115828Z_01_L14330092_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-POPE-ISLAM-COL.XML

but if he could be wrong about that.......he could be wrong about anything.....there goes my total lack of faith in the church.

Chucky the tree

Snake Plisken wrote:

Fair play to the Pope, he said nothing wrong, I'm getting a bit F^cking fed up with this Muslim lot, they are all a shower of nutters, and before you all politically correct heads come out with oh they are not all bad, thats bullsh&t, from the Danish cartoons to trying to plant liquid bombs on planes all in the name of Mohammad I'm fed with them all.

Snake

spot on.


Sure you'd never gt catholics blowing anything or anyone up now would ya?


:rolleyes:

scop

Of course not. SHOCK HORROR leader of one faith mocks other! Muslims need to stop moaning, its getting old.

Personally, I think the most insulting thing which has come out of all this is the burning of the effigy of the pope.

Ruu_Old

scop wrote:

Of course not. SHOCK HORROR leader of one faith mocks other! Muslims need to stop moaning, its getting old.

Agreed, its soooo last old. Give it up already.

fly_agaric

Renta-mobs of "Holy" muslims are "outraged" over "insults" to their religion by the EvilWestTM. And in other news the sun rose this morning and will set sometime later this evening! :rolleyes:

What a load of crap.

Killaqueen!!!

He shouldnt have apologised. As someone said earlier, we have to stop giving in to extremist idiots at one stage. People get offended so ****ing easily these days and it seems to involve the Muslim commmunity a lot. It pisses me off. Then again, if the Pope didn't apologise theyd probably blow us all up. There's a controversial statement :rolleyes:

fly_agaric

Myth wrote:

Personally, I think the most insulting thing which has come out of all this is the burning of the effigy of the pope.

But its only somewhat insulting to Catholics - so phew there! Everyone knows insulting them is great fun for all the family and none will lose an eye (or their head or something) over it.

scop

They'll probably blow something up anyway. The burning effigy of the Pope is a huge insult but you wont find Catholics storming the Pakistan embassy showing how non-violent we all are.

toomevara

Bunch of chippy fcukers, the sad thing is that someone may have to die because a muslim's 'sensibilities' have been 'offended'...hatstand...they really need to grow up and get with the programme.....

smemon

punky wrote:

Religion is not the cause of war.

it is. Religion gives people an identity. Identity seperates people. Seperation is where conflict occurs.

put it this way. i'm a utd supporter. my son will most likely be a utd supporter & his son and so on.

instanstly, we are hated and loathed by arsenal/liverpool fans, even though we are decent people. proving that identity causes instant hatred and who and what you belong will always be held against you.

If i met a muslim man on the street i'd spot him a mile off with a big mummy hat on and a towel around himself. Nowadays most people would say to themselves 'terrorist', and would be VERY cautious arond such people.

Whereas if the same guy walked down the street in casual jeans and a shirt with short black hair, nobody would pass any remarks.

Don't try and tell me religion is not the cause of war there are different clubs in religion, just like football. When you choose one, you're instantly hated by the others.

if we had no religion, no god, no churches.... the world would be a better, more peaceful place. I'm assuming of course God exists, as there is no proof he does exist yet people still fight over him :rolleyes:

Sam Vimes

smemon wrote:

if we had no religion, no god, no churches.... the world would be a better, more peaceful place. I'm assuming of course God exists, as there is no proof he does exist yet people still fight over him :rolleyes:

as john lennon says:


Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

smemon

Commander Vimes wrote:

as john lennon says:


Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

YOUUUUoooh........ you may sayyyyyyy, i'm a dreamer..
but i'm not the only one,
i hope some day you wil join us,
and the wooooorrrrld will live as one.....

good old john lennon he shares the same thoughts as myself on religion.

Darragh29

Myth wrote:

Personally, I think the most insulting thing which has come out of all this is the burning of the effigy of the pope.

I couldn't agree with you more. I was very tolerant of Muslims and Islamic people until recently but I'm honestly starting to get a bit sick of the way any negative talk about their prophet and the whole world seems to be up in arms about it and people start running amok and smashing up cities. Sick to my face of it tbh, they demand respect for their prophet and rightly so as do Christians, but I have to say that when I look at nations like Saudi Arabia and Iran, in the case of Saudi Arabia they are still chopping people's heads off with swords in a town square in Riyadh in 2006, women have no rights whatsoever (can't drive, vote, drink, can't walk down a street with a male relative), whatever religion that is behind this, and from my best observations, it is religion that is behind it, is inhumane and evil.

wes

Darragh29 wrote:

I couldn't agree with you more. I was very tolerant of Muslims and Islamic people until recently but I'm honestly starting to get a bit sick of the way any negative talk about their prophet and the whole world seems to be up in arms about it and people start running amok and smashing up cities. Sick to my face of it tbh, they demand respect for their prophet and rightly so as do Christians, but I have to say that when I look at nations like Saudi Arabia and Iran, in the case of Saudi Arabia they are still chopping people's heads off with swords in a town square in Riyadh in 2006, women have no rights whatsoever (can't drive, vote, drink, can't walk down a street with a male relative), whatever religion that is behind this, and from my best observations, it is religion that is behind it, is inhumane and evil.

Both those countries are run of Dictators, so I don't see how that is the fault of the average Iranian or Saudi person the street. Its the interpretation that the Whabbists (thats the particular brand of Islam the Saudi's espouse) which is quite frankly horrid.

As for the drink thing, men aren't alowed it either.

As for Iran, there President is a psycho who seems to have no regard for his own people.

scojones

The Muslims sense of humour and open mindedness is worse than the Germans. They need to lighten up.

Nuttzz

who is really surprised by this, what do they expect from a man who fired anti aircraft guns for hitler?

Wibbs

Darragh29 wrote:

I couldn't agree with you more. I was very tolerant of Muslims and Islamic people until recently but I'm honestly starting to get a bit sick of the way any negative talk about their prophet and the whole world seems to be up in arms about it and people start running amok and smashing up cities. Sick to my face of it tbh, they demand respect for their prophet and rightly so as do Christians

Sadly what is happening now is that people in the west are beginning to get a bit sick of it. The crying wolf at every perceived slight is getting real old too. The perception that they can give it and not take it is also growing. Also the idea of Islam meaning peace or the religion of tolerance and peace doesn't square with the aggressive posturing to every slight perceived or not (Then again "Islam" means submission). The calls for what appear to be special treatment are also wearing a bit thin.

Whatever sympathy that the cartoon row brought to the surface(and it was small) may evaporate with every one of these incidents. The problem is that ordinary Muslims who do brush this stuff off are going to take the heat for the sadly seemingly large bunch of loopers. These loopers need to be told to grow up in many ways and their largely quiet communities need to tell them that.

wes

The problem with the crazies is that they don't listen to anyone...

Frank Grimes

wes wrote:

The problem with the crazies is that they don't listen to anyone...

And they give the media better stories and visualisations than the vast majority of Muslims who aren't behaving like this.

wes

Frank Grimes wrote:

And they give the media better stories and visualisations than the vast majority of Muslims who aren't behaving like this.

The only way the rest of us could get on the news is to get an AK47 and shout "I don't think the pope meant offense.".

On a serious note, I want to ask a question to all those here, how would one go about tell the nutters to stop, now you have to remember some of these nutters have the aforementioned AK47's.

Blisterman

I find it ironic, that when a newspaper in the west publishes cartoons of Mohommed, all the nutters start rioting, and going crazy.
Then this happens, and they start burning effigies of the pope.

Seems, to fundeMENTAList Muslims, that free speech only applies when it's convenient to them.

toomevara

Blisterman wrote:

Seems, to fundeMENTAList Muslims, that free speech only applies when it's convenient to them.

A quality common to all forms of fascism (dont be under any illusions, that's just what 'islamism' is).

Sam Vimes

sjones wrote:

The Muslims sense of humour and open mindedness is worse than the Germans. They need to lighten up.

that's racist. there's nothing i hate more than a racist......and the dutch. damn pot smoking bike riders