Value of 3rd Level Education?

Rockerette

Hey guys 'n gals.

Im writing an article about how much/little students value 3rd level education, and Im just looking for a few different opinions, whether youre finished school or still studing for the LC, I'm curious.

Do you think its essential to study at 3rd level?

Why do you want to do it so much?

Is the academic side as important as the social aspect?


I've put a poll with this, and would appreciate the votes, even if you're not bothered to leave a comment... :rolleyes:




Some of you might know me from floating round here for LC 06, and for you newbies, im not just some randomer deciding to impose..

Thank you in advance..
Rockerette

smemon

It's only valuable if you know what you want to do.

a degree in something you're not interested/happy in is stupid and shows you're a poor decision maker and don't know yourself.

people who go to third level, not knowing what they want to be are stupid. They burn money as in up to 12,15k assuming it's a 3 year course.

Why not work full time in tesco getting the same amount whilst finding out what you really want to do. You'll be 3 or 4 years older- sure, but you'll have earned the guts of €60,000, probably have a car, luxuries and money in the bank.

Unfortunately, people don't want to miss out and instead follow their leaders - i mean friends - to a college/ course they really don't want to do.

*shows off new sig*

Setun

A lot of people go because they need a qualification to get a job they don't want in the future.

I want to go to college because I think I'm really going to enjoy the course and feel I'll be a better person by the end of it. If all goes according to plan anyway.

Jonny Arson

smemon wrote:

people who go to third level, not knowing what they want to be are stupid. They burn money as in up to 12,15k assuming it's a 3 year course.

Utter nonsense. 3rd level isn't all about being groomed for a specific career, it's as much about growing up and exploring your talents. When I was doing my leaving cert I didnt know what I wanted to be, I'm 2 years in college now and i still don't know what i exactly want to be but i'm progressively learning, growing up, facing difficult circumstances all while i'm in college and that will do me more good that what i would have learned stacking shelves in a supermarket. Even though i dont know what i want to be i like my course and i will gain alot from it IMO if you can go to college and get a degree you wont regret it because our economy and our 2 million jobs wont hold up forever. Most people I know who don't have a degree/and are not in a trade or construction can't get proper decent paid jobs. Just like having the LC became essential 7/8 years ago, having a degree or a similar qualification today is almost essential sadly (unless you're in trade/construction)

d4gurl

In a nutshell I do think its essential! I know two guys who chose not to go to any form of third level education and our working and our miserable...imo third level education prepares you with the knowledge you need to succeed not only academically but also socially...we really don't realise how lucky we are that our education is essentially free (finen €800) but this registration fee is miniscule in comparison to universities of the same calibre in either the U.K or U.S., there are all sort of courses out their whether you are academic or not...there is so many options that I really do believe its the way to go!

Sangre

Eh..the calibre of most Irish unis don't come close to the UK or US.

delta_bravo

Sangre wrote:

Eh..the calibre of most Irish unis don't come close to the UK or US.

but thats because they have vast sums to attract the best lecturers and supply great facilities. but that costs money which means fees which means protests from angry students;)

Rockerette

thanks for the votes/comments everyone, good to have a bit of other peoples opinions to put in.
I'll hopefully get round to writing the article this weekend... if i can stay awake (gotta love orientation week )

layke

Well I went back (just started last tuesday). I workin IT and after a crappy crappy computer cert I made it into IT and have been working in it for years.

Went back to College there recently to study for my CCNA you can work, and progress etc but tbh if you want more cash. Get the certs.

smemon

well, you can have all the degrees and certs in the world and still be an idiot.

people seem to be blowing them out of porportion here. The best IT people are self-taught with no degrees or qualifications...

the most successful people are drop outs or kids from poor backgrounds....

it's all about the drive and determination which Irish students don't have because they're too comfortable and dare i say it, spoilt.

there was a guy complaining on a thread a few weeks ago about working a few extra hours when he wasn't scheduled to and was seeking advice and contemplating leaving the job. They're the kind of students we have.

we don't have the latvian/polish/lithuanian drive and work-rate. If we did, coupled with our superior education, things could be even better for modern day ireland.

degree = extra money, that's why people do it.

however investing 3 or 4 years of your life at a time when you're full of ideas and have nothing to lose or sacrafice might be a mistake.

all it takes is one idea and BAM, you're a millionaire.... i.e. google founders who never completed their college education

how much are they worth - oh, just about $6 billion each :cool:

Aero787

Sangre wrote:

Eh..the calibre of most Irish unis don't come close to the UK or US.

That's simply not true. I presume you've been looking at league tables. The largest variable in those tables is RESEARCH. Therefore, for undergraduate degree programs, this has absolutely no impact. You must also take into account the size (i.e. the number of students attending the university) into account. Universities in the US and UK are HUGE! If you look at the UK, the best universities are Cambridge, Imperial College London, and Oxford. If Irish undergraduates weren't of the same calibre as the UK, then how would they get on a Master's program at one of the top UK universities? I know of a few guys from CIT who were snapped up this year by Imperial to do their masters. I know another guy who went to UCC or CIT (I forget which one) and he did his master's in Cambridge. Postgraduate study in Ireland is of a very high standard, and will develop in the next decade to be world class. You're only fooling yourself if you say Irish universities/ITs are not the same standard. I know this for a fact.

BACK TO THE TOPIC...

If you want a career that requires a degree, then obviously you have to go to college. Having a degree will always look good on a CV as it shows you can apply yourself etc. Since education is free in Ireland, it's a great opportunity for us young people. But, if you'd prefer to have a trade or to set up your own business, then pursue those interests because you will probably find it boring in college (the academic side not the social!). Rockerette, the academic side is just as important as the social side. You need a good balance.

Attractive Nun

smemon wrote:

the most successful people are drop outs or kids from poor backgrounds....

I would hope you have some sort of backup for that statement, because it seems to me completely absurd.

EDIT: Messed up quote tags, I obviously need a college education.

sdanseo

Attractive Nun wrote:

I would hope you have some sort of backup for that statement, because it seems to me completely absurd.

He means those who do FÁS apprenticeships and are lucky enough to get a trade....i've heard many a story about these people who now make €100,000 with their building/plastering firm, etc.

nedward

I don't think Tony O'Reilly, say, grew up on the mean streets and never went to university. In fact, he holds DCU in such high regard he built them a new library, and funds them to the tune of millions a year.

Naikon

It depends really.
In the IT sector, i believe certs and experience are better at the start to get your foot in the door.
But without a degree(not all cases, but most)Professional level IT Jobs like IT sytems managment and Software development, isnt advisable without a good degree.
In saying that ALOT of computing jobs are jobs of experience over Formal Education.
who ever heard of a IT manager letting a helpdesk technician with a degree loose on critical data servers?
So in conclusion yes and no.
Degree are only usefull if you can apply the information learned from them to real
life Situations.

Attractive Nun

sdonn_1 wrote:

He means those who do FÁS apprenticeships and are lucky enough to get a trade....i've heard many a story about these people who now make €100,000 with their building/plastering firm, etc.

Well, of course you can be successful without a 3rd level education, that surely goes without saying. Indeed, for many people not going to college is an excellent choice, and if they are good at what they want to do they can be very successful - probably more successful than I'll ever be with a pitiful arts degree, financially at least. But 'the most successful people are dropouts or kids from poor backgrounds'?

Who would you define as the 'most successful people'? It depends obviously, but if you're talking financially, you couldn't really look past top businessmen, politicians, doctors, stockbrokers etc. All of whom would most likely have received a solid third level education. There will always be the odd entrepreneur, sportsman, musician or whoever that will strike it rich, but in general these days I doubt there would be too many people without degrees who would break out of your standard uber-successful €100,000+ tradesman and into the real stratosphere of wages in this country.

JackKelly

Attractive Nun summed up exactly what I was going to say.
For every person who makes it big without an education, millions of others don't while for those with decent college degrees, a much higher percentage will end up earning good money.

professore

Sangre wrote:

Eh..the calibre of most Irish unis don't come close to the UK or US.

Those studies focus on the research papers published there .. not necessarily an indicator of good quality education.

professore

smemon wrote:

well, you can have all the degrees and certs in the world and still be an idiot.

people seem to be blowing them out of porportion here. The best IT people are self-taught with no degrees or qualifications...

the most successful people are drop outs or kids from poor backgrounds....

it's all about the drive and determination which Irish students don't have because they're too comfortable and dare i say it, spoilt.

there was a guy complaining on a thread a few weeks ago about working a few extra hours when he wasn't scheduled to and was seeking advice and contemplating leaving the job. They're the kind of students we have.

we don't have the latvian/polish/lithuanian drive and work-rate. If we did, coupled with our superior education, things could be even better for modern day ireland.

degree = extra money, that's why people do it.

however investing 3 or 4 years of your life at a time when you're full of ideas and have nothing to lose or sacrafice might be a mistake.

all it takes is one idea and BAM, you're a millionaire.... i.e. google founders who never completed their college education

how much are they worth - oh, just about $6 billion each :cool:

So your only priority in life is money. Immigrants generally come here for a short time to work their butts off so they can go back and buy a house or send money back to their families. I have worked 18 hour days abroad and occasionally still do ... but I have 3 kids now.

BTW if it's so easy "one idea and you're a millionaire" off you go then.

grahamo100

Earlier on someone wrote in saying that the caliber of most Irish Universities, which are "free" for us is nowhere near that of British and American Colleges.

"British and American Colleges" to many people implies an Ivy League/Oxbridge University. Sure, Irish Colleges don't compete with them(according to league tables), but most other American Colleges charging 30k+ per annum(and they are abounding)are of a similar league to UCD, UCG, Trinity etc.

Aero787

It's postgraduate studies where most Irish universities fall down, but our undergraduate programs match those universities who top league tables.

I know a guy who just graduated from CIT (can't remember whether it was civil or structural engineering). Anyway, he and a few guys from his course, are now doing their MEng in one of the top ten universities in the world according to THES.