Beckhams' dissapointment to be shortlived?

mike65

Goldenballs expressed his shock and upset when he discoverd he was surplus to requirments under McClaren but this might he be back in the frame sooner than expected? Aaron Lennon and Owen Hargreaves have both been ruled out for several weeks with injury (the Canadian broke his leg yesterday).

With two Euro 2008 games coming will McClaren look to Beckham to go right side and move Gerrard central or will he give SWP or even Pennant a go down the right?

Mike.

Vokes

I expect McClaren will bring in Parker for Hargreaves.

Jivin Turkey

While I wouldn't play Beckham in my starting XI the fact that he is not even in the squad is a bit of a joke IMO. He still can offer a lot and for England on numerous times he has been their match winner. Adds a lot of experience to the squad as well.

AnCapaillMor

Jivin Turkey wrote:

While I wouldn't play Beckham in my starting XI the fact that he is not even in the squad is a bit of a joke IMO. He still can offer a lot and for England on numerous times he has been their match winner. Adds a lot of experience to the squad as well.

totally agree, never liked the guy him being a united darling, but there was no doubting his ability, best freekick taker and passser in the game. typical england to blame it all on one player, not an incompetent boring manager.

Giruilla

Beckham is a complete fraud. He acts like he's playing well by rushing to throw his arm around whoever scores a goal for Engurland to get in on the press pictures. He gets the odd assist and thats about it. He can't run, it's unbelievable how slow he is. He can't beat a player. He can't tackle. He can't head. He is constantly out of position. His long balls and passing are alright, but his passes are just ****ed from one end of the pitch to the other. They rarely create space for players to run into. Usually players just receive the ball from him from across the pitch and then have to attempt what Becks can't do. Which is actually beating a player, or doing one two's with team mates and running into space/creating space. Basically he is attrocious and a complete liability to have in a team. He's cost England three genuine chances of winning the world cup and a European Cup, obviously Sven had his part to play by playing him in the last World cup when he clearly didn' deserve his place. Anyone who's ever watched carefully a full game with Beckham playing will know what I mean. McClaren knows it, and knew it in the world cup. Beckham knew he was going to be dropped as soon as Mc Claren would be taking over and thats why he was so eager to resign his captaincy after the w.c.. Beckham used to be good. He is not a footballer anymore. Ferguson could see his decline and thats why he offloaded him, it was nothing to do with personal disagreements. It's no coincidence Real Madrid haven't won anything since Beckhams arrival.
Theres no chance McClaren will call him back up. Thers plenty of good young English players who deserve their place a billion more times than Beckham does; Wright Phillips, Parker, Jenas, Downing, Carrick, Reo Coker, i'd even play Richardson ahead of him!
Beckhams a media whore, thats all he's good for these days.

Big Nelly

Giruilla wrote:

Beckham is a complete fraud.........
Beckhams a media whore, thats all he's good for these days.

What a pile of ..... Beckham is a good player and alot of manager who know alot more about footbal think the same. He was Englands most affective player in midfield in the World Cup with a number of assists. He has won how many League titles/FA cup etc with Utd? was rated for a number of years number 2 player in the World by his peers and managers. He is one of the best crossers of the ball in the World and has one of best ranges of passes.

Blaming Beckham for the Madrid crisis is stupid, Beckham is an attacking player and the problem that Madrid have are all to do with the back line, Beckham was one of Madrid best players last season and was close to top for the number of assists for the whole league. That was while trying to cover right back when they stuck on that Brazilian, Cinciho, who hasnt a clue what a right back is and goes from thinking he is a winger to thinking he is a striker.

Also this season has already had a few asists from the one game I have watched him in and Capello has already said Beckham is the one player who has surprised him in the squad with his attitude and overall play.

If you are going to slag off a player then at least have some idea why you are slagging them off. McClaren is just using the media and he is using it well so the general public, e.g. you, who don't know much about football will think he is great. The press says drop Beckham so McClaren does it, Press says they should have brought more strikers to Germany, McClaren comes out after teh Swede is gone and says he would have brought more strikers.

jesus he is a great manager isnt he, all he has done is managed to agree to everything the press says, the sign of a good manager is when they can stand up to the press. Beckham deserves to be in the squad at least but McClaren is too much of a press kid to keep him in there. Now the press are calling for Pennent to be in the squad instead of Beckham, lets see what McClaren does.

Giruilla

Big Nelly wrote:

What a pile of ..... Beckham is a good player and alot of manager who know alot more about footbal think the same. He was Englands most affective player in midfield in the World Cup with a number of assists. He has won how many League titles/FA cup etc with Utd? was rated for a number of years number 2 player in the World by his peers and managers. He is one of the best crossers of the ball in the World and has one of best ranges of passes.

I think you may find it interesting to actually read what I said, 'Beckham used to be good'. I really don't want to repeat my reasons for why Beckham is crap now. Do you disagree with my reasons? Which ones? What assets does Beckham have that overshadow his bad ones giving him a rightful place in the England team?

Big Nelly wrote:

Blaming Beckham for the Madrid crisis is stupid, Beckham is an attacking player and the problem that Madrid have are all to do with the back line, Beckham was one of Madrid best players last season and was close to top for the number of assists for the whole league. That was while trying to cover right back when they stuck on that Brazilian, Cinciho, who hasnt a clue what a right back is and goes from thinking he is a winger to thinking he is a striker.
Also this season has already had a few asists from the one game I have watched him in and Capello has already said Beckham is the one player who has surprised him in the squad with his attitude and overall play.

I'll sum it up like this. Since Beckham has gone woefull he has played for three teams. Utd (in his last season), Madrid and Engerland. Utd and Madrid, clearly two of the best teams in the world in recent years, richest, star players. Engerland are seeded, what no3 in the world, not sure? The English team has always had a plethora of talent. Point is Beckham has been playing in teams which are brilliant already. Which have star players in them already. Beckham gets assists, ... so what? what have Madrid won from all these assist you talk about? You could take Darren Fletcher and put him in Beckhams position for Real Madrid, give him the balls Beckham recieves, play him alongside Raul and Ronaldo, and I guarantee you he'd get as many assists as Beckham and probaly a lot more goals. If a crap player is playing for a world class team, the team supports the crap player and carries him through matches. It is hard for people who don't understand the game of football to see a crap player in a team with the likes of Rooney, Gerrard, Terry, Lampard playing. The reason is these players are so good they overshadow the mediocreness of players like Beckham. Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Makelele state he was fed up of carrying the midfield, this being the season Beckham entered the team. Madrid would be alot better without Beckham. England already are looking a much better team without him in their style of play, winning McClarens 1st 3 games in charge and scoring 10 goals, conceding none. DID YOU SEE ENGLAND IN THE WORLD CUP? Their play was attrociopus. It consisted of Beckham constantly hoofing the ball up in Crouch and Rooney, i was embaressed for them!

Big Nelly wrote:

If you are going to slag off a player then at least have some idea why you are slagging them off. McClaren is just using the media and he is using it well so the general public, e.g. you, who don't know much about football will think he is great. The press says drop Beckham so McClaren does it, Press says they should have brought more strikers to Germany, McClaren comes out after teh Swede is gone and says he would have brought more strikers.

jesus he is a great manager isnt he, all he has done is managed to agree to everything the press says, the sign of a good manager is when they can stand up to the press. Beckham deserves to be in the squad at least but McClaren is too much of a press kid to keep him in there. Now the press are calling for Pennent to be in the squad instead of Beckham, lets see what McClaren does.

McClaren is using the media? are you taking the piss? Press say drop Beckham so he does? do actually think thats the reason he dropped Sir Becks? who in their right mind doesn't think Erricson should have brought more strikers to the w.c.. McClaren is actually a decent manager, he won the treble with United ffs! Do you think he gives a **** about the media. Just because Sven bought into the media hype about Beckham doesn't mean McClaren will do the same about other players. Pennan is actuall y agood player, better than Beckham, or don't you watch football?

Xavi6

Giruilla wrote:

Pennan is actuall y agood player, better than Beckham, or don't you watch football?

Is this the same Jermaine Pennant who couldn't cross to save his life against Chelsea yesterday? And isn't crossing David Beckham's best asset?

Beckham is still a world class player and for you to say that the likes of Fletcher would thrive at Madrid is laughable. Beckham for years has been the most consistent deliverer of a cross in the world. If you watched United and Arsenal yesterday you would have seen Fletcher struggle to get a ball into the box. He actually hit the front rows of the crowd behind the goal with one attempt.

You appear just to be anti-Beckham beacuse of the attention he gets from the media. That should not take away from the fact that he is a superb talent. He had a better World Cup than Frank Lampard and yet isn't even in the squad while Fat Frank starts. You're tellin me that's justified?

MrJoeSoap

SofaKing wrote:

I expect McClaren will bring in Parker for Hargreaves.

Hope so, but doubt it.

gustavo

Giruilla wrote:

McClaren is actually a decent manager, he won the treble with United ffs!

Not sure what version of history you were working from but he wasnt actually the manager of that team

Giruilla

Xavi6 wrote:

Is this the same Jermaine Pennant who couldn't cross to save his life against Chelsea yesterday? And isn't crossing David Beckham's best asset?

Beckham is still a world class player and for you to say that the likes of Fletcher would thrive at Madrid is laughable. Beckham for years has been the most consistent deliverer of a cross in the world. If you watched United and Arsenal yesterday you would have seen Fletcher struggle to get a ball into the box. He actually hit the front rows of the crowd behind the goal with one attempt.

You appear just to be anti-Beckham beacuse of the attention he gets from the media. That should not take away from the fact that he is a superb talent. He had a better World Cup than Frank Lampard and yet isn't even in the squad while Fat Frank starts. You're tellin me that's justified?

If you actually believe Beckham had a better world cup than Lampard fair enough, theres nothing I can say to change your opinion on that. Lampard didn't have the best w.c. but that was mainly down to the fact that beckham would not pass to him. Lampards game involves actually getting on the ball in the opponents half and making killer passes and stringing moves together. Beckham would not stop hoofing the ball up the pitch in the world cup and losing the ball as a result when Rooney/Crouch couldn't cope with them. When you say Beckham is a superb talent, try to realise you are talking about his past glories, NOT the player he is today.

Xavi6 wrote:

You appear just to be anti-Beckham beacuse of the attention he gets from the media.

Could you try attempt to back this statement up please? You may have difficulties. Have you disregarded my reasons for why I am anti-Beckham, about how he plays football. I stated that Beckham is media whore which he is and he is got at doing. Seeing players who earn 70k plus a week like Beckham and Gerrard doing pringles and pepsi adverts makes my stomach churn.

Giruilla

gustavo wrote:

Not sure what version of history you were working from but he wasnt actually the manager of that team

Could you point outexactly where I said he was the manager. Being assistant manager is pretty much as big a role as being manager and you have almost as much influence on the team.

MrJoeSoap

Giruilla wrote:

Seeing players who earn 70k plus a week like Beckham and Gerrard doing pringles and pepsi adverts makes my stomach churn.

Fat Frank is safe so I suppose, he'd never go near a Pepsi advertisement, or earn more than 10k a week.

Giruilla wrote:

Could you point outexactly where I said he was the manager. Being assistant manager is pretty much as big a role as being manager and you have almost as much influence on the team.

Terry Venables is doing a good job so.

Xavi6

Giruilla wrote:

If you actually believe Beckham had a better world cup than Lampard fair enough, theres nothing I can say to change your opinion on that. Lampard didn't have the best w.c. but that was mainly down to the fact that beckham would not pass to him. Lampards game involves actually getting on the ball in the opponents half and making killer passes and stringing moves together.

Poor Lampard got so little of the ball that he had the worst shots to goals ratio in the tournament. How many assists did Lamps have in comparison to Beckham? They would have drawn with Trinidad if it wasn't for Beckham's ability to deliver a ball into the box.

Didn't see Lampard playing those 'killer balls' when Beckham wasn't on the pitch against Portugal.

Oh and by the way, is Gerrard 'a media whore' too because he does adverts for Pringles and washing powder? And Lampard for advertising Pepsi? You wouldn't want to sound hypocritical now would you?

Giruilla

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Fat Frank is safe so I suppose, he'd never go near a Pepsi advertisement, or earn more than 10k a week.

No he's just as bad. He does Tesco adverts too. Why do think I'm defending Lampard just because I didn't mention him?

Giruilla

Xavi6 wrote:

Oh and by the way, is Gerrard 'a media whore' too because he does adverts for Pringles and washing powder? And Lampard for advertising Pepsi? You wouldn't want to sound hypocritical now would you?

How is me having not mentioned there names being hypocritical? I really don't understand your logic here. It would be hypocritical if I said they weren't 'media whores'. Do you want to mention every footballer whos ever been in an ad or something?

Big Nelly

Giruilla wrote:

It is hard for people who don't understand the game of football to see a crap player in a team with the likes of Rooney, Gerrard, Terry, Lampard playing.

LOL you actual think you understand the game of football and then you proceed to type out this stuff. Very funny.

Giruilla wrote:

McClaren is using the media? are you taking the piss? Press say drop Beckham so he does? do actually think thats the reason he dropped Sir Becks? who in their right mind doesn't think Erricson should have brought more strikers to the w.c.. McClaren is actually a decent manager, he won the treble with United ffs! Do you think he gives a **** about the media. Just because Sven bought into the media hype about Beckham doesn't mean McClaren will do the same about other players. Pennan is actuall y agood player, better than Beckham, or don't you watch football?

McClaren is a decent manager? where did you get this information form seeing so you know the game of football? he didnt win the treble with Utd, since you know so much you should know that he wasnt the manager and the coach has nothing to do with the tactics the manger plays. fergie won it and nobody else. McClaren was just after moving to Utd that season and had very little affect, Utd had been building to that win for a few seasons beforehadn and it was due to happen one of those years. Just because McClaren moved there the year it happened doesnt mean he won the treble for Utd. Even you who knows so much about the game should realise this

One comment I thought was best was an Oz TV show about the PL and the England team, very good line up of ex pro and managers from England, when asked about McClaren they all agreed they had no clue what formation McClaren actually favoured at Boro or half the time what formation he was actually playing. This is from professionals!!!!

McClaren stood behind Ericksson before and during the WC and then when it all went belly up went running to the press saysing he would have brought more strikers. A rat jumping ship to me.

Sven had nothing to do with Beckham and the media hype, he was already captain when Sven took over the job. But sure you knew this? Where is your information to say that Sven bought into the media hype? seeing as when Sven took over he was no 2 in the World footballers.

Yes I watch football but I dont think you do or your just blinded by your hatred of Beckham, think you are just having a problem with the media and you have bought into it. Everyone else here can see he is a decent player and you cant. Pennent is an ok player, could be a good player but exactly what has he done to give him a place in the England squad ahead of Beckham? can you name one good game he has had this seaosn or actually last season when he struggled in a Birmingham team? There is no way Pennent is anywhere near as good as beckham at the moment but he is young and maybe when he gets experience will be. Maybe you should watch some football

MrJoeSoap

Giruilla wrote:

No he's just as bad. He does Tesco adverts too. Why do think I'm defending Lampard just because I didn't mention him?

To be honest, I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.

You clearly don't like Beckham, so you say... "Seeing players who earn 70k plus a week like Beckham and Gerrard doing pringles and pepsi adverts makes my stomach churn." which also applies to Lampard, who you had just defended. A convenient omission.

Beckham had a far more effective World Cup than Lampard, and was absolutely lethal in the few build-up games to it. Now I'm not a fan of him as a person whatsoever, but he is the best crosser of a ball in the game, and should at least be in the squad for his crossing and set pieces alone.

Scored for Real last night as well, albeit without much of an opposition defence.

Giruilla

Xavi6 wrote:

Poor Lampard got so little of the ball that he had the worst shots to goals ratio in the tournament. How many assists did Lamps have in comparison to Beckham? They would have drawn with Trinidad if it wasn't for Beckham's ability to deliver a ball into the box.

Didn't see Lampard playing those 'killer balls' when Beckham wasn't on the pitch against Portugal.

I struggling to believe you can actually say this. They beat trinidad 1-0. Is that supposed to be a good result fro a team like England. Did you watch the match? Did you see the way Beckham played. The goal was in the around 85 minutes? They were lucky to get anything from the match. My whole point is without Beckham on the pitch they probaly would have won 4 or 5 nil with someone who could pass well around midfield with Lampard and Gerrard.
Portugal were a strong team who were well prepared for the w.c., England were not.

Xavi6

Giruilla wrote:

How is me having not mentioned there names being hypocritical? I really don't understand your logic here. It would be hypocritical if I said they weren't 'media whores'. Do you want to mention every footballer whos ever been in an ad or something?

You imply that Fat Frank is the the good cop to Beckham's bad, defending him to the hilt when he is clearly less of an influence on the England team. He has done nothing recently, both at club and international level, to justify his place in the starting XI while Beckham is clearly worth minimum a spot in the squad. Good win for Madrid last night, and I see Beckham scored after coming off the bench and is playing like he has a point to prove. Great to see.

Giruilla

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Now I'm not a fan of him as a person whatsoever, but he is the best crosser of a ball in the game, and should at least be in the squad for his crossing and set pieces alone.

Gerrard is just as good a crosser if not better than Beckham.

MrJoeSoap

I'd put Beckham slightly ahead of Gerrard but thats personal opinion. It doesn't really matter anyway, as Gerrard should play in the centre, with Beckham on the right. They shouldn't be competing for one spot.

BaZmO*

Giruilla wrote:

Do you think he gives a **** about the media.

Definitely

Big Nelly

Giruilla wrote:

I struggling to believe you can actually say this. They beat trinidad 1-0. Is that supposed to be a good result fro a team like England. Did you watch the match? Did you see the way Beckham played. The goal was in the around 85 minutes? They were lucky to get anything from the match. My whole point is without Beckham on the pitch they probaly would have won 4 or 5 nil with someone who could pass well around midfield with Lampard and Gerrard.
Portugal were a strong team who were well prepared for the w.c., England were not.

Seriously go and watch the games and then start, Gerrard and Lampard done nothing in the World Cup. They couldnt pass a ball between them and Beckham was a better player than either of them, mind you the whole England team where useless so its no glory. You really have a problem with Beckham and just making up stuf now to try and make him look terrible, Will get you no where here because people on here know about footie!!

Big Nelly

Giruilla wrote:

Gerrard is just as good a crosser if not better than Beckham.

Another classic. Gerrard is good but no where near as good as beckham!!

Edit at crossing the ball now before I get the Liverpool legion after me

~Rebel~

Giruilla...just...wow..

Im not gonna go into big detail, but really, have you actually watched him play in Spain? Honestly? You say he's made look good by paying with great players, while also saying this team had to be carried by Makalele and dont win anything any more. which is it? Have they been a great team that carried him or have they deteriorated from a lack of physical fitness and defensiev capabilities?

If you watched much, you'd have seen that it was quite the other way around in spain last year, Beckham ended up being an integral part of trying to hold together a completely mismatched confused midfield with square pegs squashed into round holes. When he wasn't injured he was pretty much the best player. Granted he doesn't have pace to burn and he's not the best for rounding people. If you're intelligent you dont need to be. His team interplay is exceptional when he's actually in his prefered position of attacking on the right. He's dangerous with a cross from anywhere past the halfway line, and his defensive tracking is above average when not in possession. Again i implore you, just watch real, he generally tracks back, passes off simple and gets back to where he can cause damage.

For England the problem was nobody performed. Correct me if im wrong but without Beckhams important set pieces and goal against Ecuador would England have even reached the quarter final? Its hardly his fault Lampard didn't show up and that Gerrard didn't play to his scintilating best. Its not his fault Rooney and Owen spent most of the world cup injured. One single player doesn't drag down a "world class team" it takes quite a bit going wrong.

You say England are now on flying form yes? Well so far they've destroyed one terrible team and scraped past a poor one. I seem to recall before the world cup them desimating a few poor teams, so were they on top form then?

I actually feel foolish now for falling for the Troll to be honest, but sure feckit tis a slow workday. You obviously just hate beckham and won't change your opinion.

Xavi6

BaZmO* wrote:

Definitely

Ha ha brilliant.


England's midfield for the next game should be

Parker

Beckham---Gerrard---J. Cole

but it won't happen.

Giruilla

BaZmO* wrote:

Definitely

All managers have press advisors. Considering the media circus that constantly surround the England Manager postion i hardly think it's bad he hires someone who knows the tabloids in and out to advise him. My point the media will not influence who he picks and drops. Also its not like the media are always wrong in their opinions. I they say drop Beckham and it turns out he does it would have happened anyway.

MrJoeSoap

Giruilla wrote:

i hardly think it's bad he hires someone who knows the tabloids in and out to advise him.

Even though he doesn't give a sh1te? Come off it!

Giruilla

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Even though he doesn't give a sh1te? Come off it!

Doesn't give a sh1te about their opinions on who he should play!!

~Rebel~

Giruilla wrote:

Doesn't give a sh1te about their opinions on who he should play!!

we'll just see what happens over the next few games. He's had absolutely no tough calls to make so far, besides the dropping david "the scapegoat" beckham. Theres nothing for you to defend really so far. Personally, id be amazed if we didn't see repercussions of media outcry in his selections.

BaZmO*

Giruilla wrote:

Being assistant manager is pretty much as big a role as being manager and you have almost as much influence on the team.

So then, by using that logic McClaren is responsible for England's consistent underperforming while Sven was in charge, or is that McClaren???

~Rebel~

BaZmO* wrote:

So then, by using that logic McClaren is responsible for England's consistent underperforming while Sven was in charge, or is that McClaren???

heh good spot. hadn't noticed that. Ah this conversation is just gettin to be a bit of a joke, one guy's rampent opinions versus logic and fact.

Giruilla

~Rebel~ wrote:

we'll just see what happens over the next few games. He's had absolutely no tough calls to make so far, besides the dropping david "the scapegoat" beckham. Theres nothing for you to defend really so far. Personally, id be amazed if we didn't see repercussions of media outcry in his selections.

You're right theres not much to be said until he has to start making some tough calls. Personally I feel he is a much stronger character than Sven and won't be as heavily influenced. I didn't feel Beckham was made out to be a scapegoat in the last world cup by the media btw as much as Sven was.

Giruilla

~Rebel~ wrote:

heh good spot. hadn't noticed that. Ah this conversation is just gettin to be a bit of a joke, one guy's rampent opinions versus logic and fact.

Are you sure this logic and fact isn't just your opinions. I could just as easily say you statement myself.

gustavo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWLkL60sUrA

I honestly believe McClaren wants Beckham in his squad and team and is just doing this to try to take him out of his comfort zone that he was in for England

MrJoeSoap

Giruilla wrote:

Are you sure this logic and fact isn't just your opinions. I could just as easily say you statement myself.

I noticed you replied to post 31 and 33, but not 32. I'm dying to hear your response on this one.

Giruilla

BaZmO* wrote:

So then, by using that logic McClaren is responsible for England's consistent underperforming while Sven was in charge, or is that McClaren???

#Sigh#,
What a childish comment to make. Being assistant manager to an international team is a COMPLETELY differnt situation to being assisant manager to a club team. When a.m. to a club team you spend the whole season with the players and have direct contact with them daily and focus all your time on them. When McClaren was a.m. to England he had ben managing Middlebrough through out the year and then spends a few weeks with England approaching the w.c.. Obviously his influence won't be as big!

BaZmO*

Giruilla wrote:

You're right theres not much to be said....

I dunno, you seem to have said an awful lot........

MrJoeSoap

Giruilla wrote:

#Sigh#,
What a childish comment to make. Being assistant manager to an international team is a COMPLETELY differnt situation to being assisant manager to a club team. When a.m. to a club team you spend the whole season with the players and have direct contact with them daily and focus all your time on them. When McClaren was a.m. to England he had ben managing Middlebrough through out the year and then spends a few weeks with England approaching the w.c.. Obviously his influence won't be as big!

Manager of a club - lots of time with players
Assistant Manager of a club - lots of time with players

Manager of a country - Little time with players
Assistant Manager of a country - Little time with players

Tbh...

Anyway, screw this for a game of cowboys, its been fun and all but I'm off to Derry! Best of luck with this lads...

Giruilla

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I noticed you replied to post 31 and 33, but not 32. I'm dying to hear your response on this one.

Ooo i took a minute to reply to the most pointless comment there, are you satisfied now?

Giruilla

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Manager of a country - Little time with players
Assistant Manager of a country - Little time with players

Em,
Manager of a country - Little time with players, yes,
- Lots of time to concentrate on what players to pick, what tactics to employ.

MrJoeSoap

Giruilla wrote:

Ooo i took a minute to reply to the most pointless comment there, are you satisfied now?

Satisfied? Hardly.

Amused? Definitely!

BaZmO's post summed up your views perfectly in one sentence... confusing!

Big Nelly

Giruilla wrote:

Em,
Manager of a country - Little time with players, yes,
- Lots of time to concentrate on what players to pick, what tactics to employ.

Are you actually serious or just taking the pi** now and making out you havent a clue about the game? I hope it is the second one or your just going to get 10 pages of pure abuse!! people on boards know about soccer so if you come on spouting hatred etc and not actually looking at the facts then you will get pulled up. Have you not realised yet that everyone else on here has disagreed with you so maybe you are wrong? or are you just a troll?

Giruilla

Big Nelly wrote:

Are you actually serious or just taking the pi** now and making out you havent a clue about the game? I hope it is the second one or your just going to get 10 pages of pure abuse!! people on boards know about soccer so if you come on spouting hatred etc and not actually looking at the facts then you will get pulled up. Have you not realised yet that everyone else on here has disagreed with you so maybe you are wrong? or are you just a troll?

Where did this come out of? I can't express an opinion and back it up? If i do I'm a troll? Do I have to agree with the majority which is only about 6 or 7 people or I'll get 'pulled up'?
Yes I am actually serious. So lets hear this ten pages of abuse, or would you get 'pulled up' for that? Maybe you could try and convince me with some reasonable arguments which I have read few of except from Rebel.

Big Nelly

Giruilla wrote:

some reasonable arguments which I have read few of except from Rebel.

Read the thread, you are blabbering on and not even reading anyone's point. There has been numerous points even on the first page which you have failed to miss. The only un-reasonable arguement around here was made by yourself.

First of all saying McClaren won the Champions league and then saying he didnt have any affect in the same position on the England team????? that was just one I have picked out. We could start with the whole thing about the Madrid team carrying Beckham???

~Rebel~

Giruilla wrote:

Are you sure this logic and fact isn't just your opinions. I could just as easily say you statement myself.

Giruilla wrote:

You could take Darren Fletcher and put him in Beckhams position for Real Madrid, give him the balls Beckham recieves, play him alongside Raul and Ronaldo, and I guarantee you he'd get as many assists as Beckham

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/squad?id=86&season=2005&cat=starts&view=1&cc=5739
Assists last year for Real Madrid.
Beckham 13
Zidane 10
Guti 6
Roberto Carlos 6
Cicinho 4
Raul 3
Ronaldo 2
Robinho 1
Gelguera 1
Cassano 1
Sergio Ramos 0
Salgado 0
Baptista 0 (Thats Zero Assists from 29 Starts)
Pablo garcia 0
Gravesen 0
Mejia 0
Pavon 0
Diogo 0
Raul Bravo 0
Woodgate 0

So are you telling me anyone could get as many assists for Real Madrid then?

Giruilla

Big Nelly wrote:

There has been numerous points even on the first page which you have failed to miss.

Would that not mean I've read them? And I've read every post, what points are you talking about.

Giruilla

~Rebel~ wrote:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/squad?id=86&season=2005&cat=starts&view=1&cc=5739
Assists last year for Real Madrid.
Beckham 13
Zidane 10
Guti 6
Roberto Carlos 6
Cicinho 4
Raul 3

So are you telling me anyone could get as many assists for Real Madrid then?

You seem to beleive, maybe I'm wrong, that every assist Beckham does is some pin point cross into the box that couldn't possibly not result in a goal. Its pretty easy for goals to occur when Beckham is feckin balls into Ronaldo, Zidane and Raul who can make something of any ball that they get near in the box. Lots of other players could get the same amount of assists as Beckham does if they played in his position. I believe if Beckham could play football in a fashion where he could run, pass, creat space, beat players, such as Giggs can do, not just hoof the ball up the pitch, Madrid would score a lot more goals than what they do and actually win something, same goes for England. Of course I don't believe Beckham has it in him to run, pass etc. Therefore he should be replaced, and McClaren has seen this, and decided it's the way forward for England.

Attractive Nun

I don't think there's any doubt that Beckham is a superb set-piece player, and an excellent passer of the ball. His loss of mobility over the years, however, has really damaged his overall play. Giruilla is exactly right to say that Beckham doesn't have the ability to beat a player, or to tackle. Back in the day, with Keane, Scholes and Butt vital members of the United (and England, for the latter two) midfield - and Gary Neville behind him making space - this didn't really matter, as he could concentrate solely on going forward to create chances. He could come infield without worry - essentially a free role. His decline as a player, however (while not being so evident at Madrid) has coincided with the emergence of Lampard and Gerrard as central midfield forces.

Basically, since Beckham has been forced further out onto the wing for England, his lack of 'winger-like' abilities has become more and more evident. During the course of most World Cup matches, he did almost nothing in open play - the team being forced to pass to Joe Cole on the left for width. Obviously, with his exceptional crossing ability, he's bound to get an assist or two (and of course his set plays can be utilised) over the course of a World Cup, but the relevant question is this: is it really worth sacrificing the right side of midfield for Beckham's crossing ability?

Given the fact that Gerrard and Lampard are both possess excellent set piece ability, and Gerrard, Aaron Lennon, Shaun Wright-Phillips or maybe even Jermaine Pennant offer far more in general play than Beckham does on the right wing, I think the answer is obvious. Maybe if the rules of soccer allowed a volleyball-style libero to come on and off whenever, then he'd be worth having in the squad. But he would certainly not be in my first eleven, and I think to keep him in the squad for his dead ball skills is stupid, firstly because there are infinitely more effective 'impact subs' available, and secondly because Steve McClaren must be building for the future, and the development of SWP, Lennon, Pennant and even Wallcott on the wing is essential to England's future success.

~Rebel~

Giruilla wrote:

You seem to beleive, maybe I'm wrong, that every assist Beckham does is some pin point cross into the box that couldn't possibly not result in a goal. Its pretty easy for goals to occur when Beckham is feckin balls into Ronaldo, Zidane and Raul who can make something of any ball that they get near in the box. Lots of other players could get the same amount of assists as Beckham does if they played in his position. I believe if Beckham could play football in a fashion where he could run, pass, creat space, beat players, such as Giggs can do, not just hoof the ball up the pitch, Madrid would score a lot more goals than what they do and actually win something, .

I dont really know what you're saying here. You first said ANYONE (eg fletcher) in his position would create way more. Given the stats on the others in the team not creating anywhere near as much bar Zizou (and noone can claim he's just anyone) and beckham still had 1/3rd more. So with roberto carlos and cicinho doing the same as beckham, trying to get up for crosses and passes for goals, neither contributed anywhere near as much to the goals tally. Do you believe that right wing is the only position on the pitch goals should come from? Zizou managed 10 assists from the left which i think is quite good to be honest so how is it somehow worse for beckham to have 13? Or do you not rate zidane either, another player who is past his best but still would have plenty to contribute to a squad despite his retirement, as we saw in his Starring performance for france.

I never said anything about beutifully flighted crosses resulting in definate goals, in fact that not all his assists are in this fashion just proves even more that he has much more to his game then just a cross from wide. I firmly believe he's not the player he was, but he's still a good player on the back of a fantastic season. I defy you to find anyone who watched him over the course of last season to agree with you. Keep in mind ANY punditry i've heard from people who actually watch spanish football firmly acknowledge he made a major major contribution to the team, which the stats i provided prove.

Bottom line really is Guti, Baptista, Raul, Robinho and Ronaldo were all surrounded by the same world class players (each other) and still all their assists together dont add to Beckhams total.

And he's not THAT slow either; Goal from the weekend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWLkL60sUrA