Bungs and all that

LostinBlanch

Chelsea are going to get docked 3 points for tapping up after they were fined and warned with the Ashley Cole incident. :rolleyes:


I wouldn't hold my breath waiting though.

KevIRL

Necromomicon wrote:

You can go to the BBC 5live site as well, there's a discussion on it at the moment.

very interesting it is too

Rollo Tamasi

gimmick wrote:

Merely stating an opinion, that he likes that player. Dont think there is much wrong with that.

there is if it's the player's agent coming to the manager of another club saying that he wants to move because he is coming 'stale' at his current employer
that's a tapping up

LostinBlanch

Fernandes scored for Portsmouth tonight. Nice goal too by all accounts.

therecklessone

gimmick wrote:

Am I the only one who felt that entire show was very vague? There was no concrete evidence against anyone

Arnensen's offer of £150k over 3 years for Porrit is pretty clear cut.

Fat Sam is fecked.

Think Bent 'Arry was vague enough to escape punishment.

Other than that it wasn't particularly ground breaking.

gimmick

LostinBlanch wrote:

Fernandes scored for Portsmouth tonight. Nice goal too by all accounts.

^ I think that Fernandes is Portugese?

there is if it's the player's agent coming to the manager of another club saying that he wants to move because he is coming 'stale' at his current employer
that's a tapping up

But the fact there was no monies mentioned or anything makes it seem innocent chat to me. However, that is open to interpretation I guess.

Mr. Presentable

Of 18, 3 were named and another implied.

Load of bollocks. The little guy, SA, will fall for it and the rest go free. Why not name the others? Really, why not?

Because they ALL do it, and an expose would reduce football in the EPL to the depths of, say, Italy.

The programme was a total copout, and an indictment of BBC journalism and little Bolton W.

KevIRL

Yer man Knut on 5 live at the mo

therecklessone

Had to laugh at Phil Gartside of Bolton and his "fury" at the illegal approach for Okocha...

"We'll take £5m please, you have my number..."

mike65

Other than that it wasn't particularly ground breaking.

Well they were never going to get Jose in bed with a rent-boy

To the skeptics - they would have got alot futher if Mike Newell had'nt spoken out in January, he blew it really.

Mike.

Ardent

No real concrete proof on any of the managers, I was disappointed. But the careers of the agents in question are over I think.

What I really want to know though is: are Chelsea now finally going to get docked points by the FA?

Mr. Presentable

gimmick wrote:

^ I think that Fernandes is Portugese?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/5299102.stm

leninbenjamin

the program was very disappointing... for all the hype they failed to convincingly expose any manager beyond 'Arry saying "he's a tough bastard".

As for the big name player... that blurred footage they showed, did anyone else think it was Patrice Evra!?

Maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree, i couldn't make out if the transfer went through or not without Knuts input... but still, i think that's the player they showed... was that intended!? or was it supposed to be just some random player?

spareman

I feel Sam and Harry will be slaughtered for there parts, but everyone knows it goes on everywhere in football, there just unlucky to be caught. Liverpool will get a slap on the wrist too Id say. Eamon Dunphy always said its the most corrupt sport in the world.

Villain

How were liverpool implicated?

mike65

Frank Arnesen is in doo-doo as well.

A 'boro youth player was being touted around and Liverpools coaching staff took an interest dispite it being clear 'boro were not in the loop

Bolton Wanderers fan board

Mike.

Carcharodon

The way they had the mystery blacked out team and that they were going to reveal all the major players right to the top, i was well excited....

It then just seemed to go round and round and round in circles for an hour, very vague but interesting never less

Necronomicon

Ardent wrote:

What I really want to know though is: are Chelsea now finally going to get docked points by the FA?

I was wondering this as well. Arneson was probably caught worse than any of the others. He said in plain English that he'd give the youngster 150,000 to leave 'Boro.
I was listening to the Five Live program, apparently the FA aren't going to take immediate action based on the show. They're going to review all the evidence again, and study the footage that didn't make it into the show.

Vokes

leninbenjamin wrote:

As for the big name player... that blurred footage they showed, did anyone else think it was Patrice Evra!?

Maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree, i couldn't make out if the transfer went through or not without Knuts input... but still, i think that's the player they showed... was that intended!? or was it supposed to be just some random player?

Yeah, thats who i was thinking but we dunno if the blurred visual was supposed to be that player

spareman

I wonder if the FA will get to see the footage the bbc were afraid to show tonight of the other 18 managers.
Chelsea have a suspended 3 point deduction hanging over them dont they?

mike65

The best thing that could come from this is to outlaw agents.

The 18 managers are both past and present, some names are well known including ***** and ****** not to mention *******

Mike.

LostinBlanch

leninbenjamin wrote:

the program was very disappointing... for all the hype they failed to convincingly expose any manager beyond 'Arry saying "he's a tough bastard".

As for the big name player... that blurred footage they showed, did anyone else think it was Patrice Evra!?

Just did a google search on Evra and his agent is Federico Pastorello who wasn't mentioned in the programme.

As for the FA they would just like this to go away and let people forget about it. Watch out for some "controversial" refereeing decisions over the next week or so, anything to try and divert attention away from this.

The most important thing about the programme is the timing though. The Stevens report comes out in 14 days time and this will just increase pressure on them to be seen to do something. Expect the usual few rotten apples argument, scapegoat(s) talk of changes in culture, strict guidelines etc etc until people forget and everybody can get on with business as usual. Thnik the Garda reaction to the Morris report but, with football.

kaisersose77

chelsea wont be deducted 3 pts as it was only an academy player according to the premier league , well thats what i heard on 5 live, and any fine or deduction for this incident will be a different case

LostinBlanch

spareman wrote:

I wonder if the FA will get to see the footage the bbc were afraid to show tonight of the other 18 managers.
Chelsea have a suspended 3 point deduction hanging over them dont they?

% Live have reported the premier leaguerep as saying that chelsea won't be deducted points as they had a 3 point suspension hanging over them for inducing a player under contract - Cole. This is a seperate incident apparently. So Chelsea get away with it. But there's still the Leeds allegations to come (remember Bates saying that Chelsea tapped up two Leeds academy players).

spareman

The premier league say they hope all footage will be made available to them so they can examine all the evidence.

MrJoeSoap

nipplenuts wrote:

Of 18, 3 were named and another implied.

Load of bollocks. The little guy, SA, will fall for it and the rest go free. Why not name the others? Really, why not?

Because they ALL do it, and an expose would reduce football in the EPL to the depths of, say, Italy.

The programme was a total copout, and an indictment of BBC journalism and little Bolton W.

They couldn't name other managers without evidence as it would just be considered slander. The way they were showing it however, at times, was extremely annoying. It looked as if they would name more, but didn't.

ButcherOfNog

It was fairly crap, it didn't "shock" or anything like that. Yes there are agents who are dodgy, like we didn't all know that? A agent went around touting one of middlesboro's youth players to other teams......so?

They really did try and stick it to Big Sam, but only succeeded in making his son Craig look dirty, and he was an agent, so no surprise there.

gosplan

leninbenjamin wrote:

As for the big name player... that blurred footage they showed, did anyone else think it was Patrice Evra!?

I thought it looked like Walcott but they hve a similar outline.

As regards the show.

Agents all gone, Allerdyce fúcked mainly because of his bigmouth son.

I'm assuming that they only named Allerdyce as they had evidence for him. I know BBC lawyers were sifting through it all week. Basically it comes down to the fact that if the bbc say anything thats unprovable they're totally screwed as regards defamation. Harry was mentioned but they never said anything concrete. This is because all they have on him is him accepting an offer of a trip to a world cup match(who wouldn't?) and his chief agent not responding negatively when payments were mentioned on the phone.

Chelsea are probably losing three points but what diffference does that really make.

It looks to me like the programme exploited a small enough field inthe premiership. I don't trust any agents and basically what the undercover team were doing was to say to moneygrabbing backstabbing liars..'if you can convince me you know crooked managers there's cash in it for you'. It's like asking a kid is he going to be good for Santa. Also the fact that these agents and the Newell agents are the same.

I'd say bungs happen but not as much to premiership managers as the programme makes out. I'd say a lot of agents and scouts do very well though. It's clear that tapping up is a fact of modern football. I think that given the fact it's so blatently everywhere it would be a little harsh to just penalise Chelsea but thems the breaks:D

Pepe LeFrits

Chelsea won't be deducted points.

http://www.thefa.com/ASPXUtility/PANews/PANewspage.aspx?index=3

But on the bright side, if Sam gets the sack, Arsenal should have a better chance of getting a few points off Bolton next time round!

~Rebel~

they must have clear evidence against sam or else he woudnt have been mentioned they wouldnt have been so clear in saying he would be happy to receive a bung. i've personally always liked sam so a bit disappointed in him, but then i suppose he always was a wheeler dealer. his son seems a right prat!

to be honest im nearly surprised they only did the tapping up thing was only on liverpool and chelsea, id say absolutely everyone is guilty of it. fowler even says it in his book that on england duty or whatever all the lads would be chatting letting each other know who was wanted by who on behalf of their club. like the mix up where he got a text askin if he was interested in the deal and it turned out it was meant to be for Robbie Keane on a move to liverpool. im sure they'll be punished a bit but prob not much seeing as its a youth player and the club were approached by the agent and not the other way around (so it seemed), and on liverpools end at least no money was mentioned

on an odd note, been watching skysports news and theres not mention of it!

The Rooster

Personally I thought the program was a huge let down.

The only hard evidence of wrongdoing they showed was Arnesen mentioning 150,000 as a figure for the young Boro lad. But is the 15 year old even under contract at Boro? And even so it wasnt an offer just a guideline amount, he didnt talk to the player and it was the agent who initiated it. All tentative.

The rest of it was a load of crap. I can hardly believe they aired it. When the sting they had set up failed, that should have been the program in the bin. They even spent 7 or 8 minutes giving all their excuses of why the program isnt as good as it should be. FFS.

Accusing Harry of tapping-up was a joke. And the only evidence of bungs came from agents who were trying to big themselves up.

eirebhoy

The Rooster wrote:

Personally I thought the program was a huge let down.

It certainly was. It was a decent programme for a Tuesday night but I was expecting a lot more from what I've been reading this past week.

"In the undercover tapes an agent names TEN clubs and SIX managers as part of wide-ranging allegations that will rock the English game"

My arse.

iregk

I was very disappointed with it myself. They didn't dig or show anywhere near what I was expecting. I was ready for the EPL to be blown open, lets see Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man U's dirty washing being aired. Instead all we got was Sam being canned a touch of 'Arry and a brief moment of Chelsea, Liverpool and Newcastle...

The programme gave very little and I was hugely let down by it.

ciaran76

I think the showed was hyped up too much to be honest.

If what Harry Redknapp did was illegal then all managers in the Prem, would be in trouble. All he did was talk about liking the player really.

Son of Sam might be in trouble I reckon after this. But Sam I am not too sure of as all I saw was some dodgy agents saying Sam will like this etc etc. But nothing concrete was shown about Sam.

~Rebel~

if they dont have hard facts to back up sam being what they say he is, they'll get majorly sued for defamation of character, which is why (id imagine) the other managers that were blanked out weren't exposed, that there wasn't enough proof, so for the moment, i have to assume he's guilty as i really dont think the BBC would expose themselves to potential legal action..

it was a bit of a let down alright though, especially all the time spent on the big sting operation that just didn't happen. Id say the Lord Stevens inquiry will probably be a bit more thorough..

sundula

programme was a let down, really just made a complete ass out of Sam's son, bet he feels like a twit today - most of it seemed to be boosting about his influence

thebaz

What shocks me is people are actually shocked that there is dodgy dealing in the Premiership !
There is dodgy dealing in boxing, horse racing , rugby ,etc . etc .
Look at the scandal with our swimming here and our dodgy Gold medals .
Look at our last olympic medal , Show jumping of all sports and the scandal about that.
Investigate Eircom league , you will find dodgy dealing !
Its a fact of life -- like others i agree what makes it particularly bad in English football are the agents .

But dont hammer the Premiership , because Sam is open to a bung, the Premiership provides entertainment for many , and like most things in life its not perfect , but has its place.
People will enjoy putting the boot into Sam and the Premiership today, but lets keep it in perspective. How many here would take a bribe , if they thought they could get away with it ?

MrJoeSoap

thebaz wrote:

What shocks me is people are actually shocked that there is dodgy dealing in the Premiership !
There is dodgy dealing in boxing, horse racing , rugby ,etc . etc .
Look at the scandal with our swimming here and our dodgy Gold medals .
Look at our last olympic medal , Show jumping of all sports and the scandal about that.
Investigate Eircom league , you will find dodgy dealing !
Its a fact of life -- like others i agree what makes it particularly bad in English football are the agents .

But dont hammer the Premiership , because Sam is open to a bung, the Premiership provides entertainment for many , and like most things in life its not perfect , but has its place.
People will enjoy putting the boot into Sam and the Premiership today, but lets keep it in perspective. How many here would take a bribe , if they thought they could get away with it ?

Do you attend Premiership games often?

iregk

Baz, not many are shocked that it goes on. I think we all know that almost every club is envolved in it and most managers also. This however doesn't make it right! Would I accept a bung? I think I could safely say no I wouldn't considering the wages these guys earn already!

Its not a case of it goes on so accept it. Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with the game in this instance. Morally I think its wrong. If you can't do something fair then don't do it at all thats the way I look at things. If only there were a lot more people like Mike Newell then the game would be a lot more honest.

When it comes to diving to win penalties do you have the same view I do and say that its cheating or do you simply say ah thats the game!

MrJoeSoap

iregk wrote:

Baz, not many are shocked that it goes on. I think we all know that almost every club is envolved in it and most managers also. This however doesn't make it right! Would I accept a bung? I think I could safely say no I wouldn't considering the wages these guys earn already!

Its not a case of it goes on so accept it. Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with the game in this instance. Morally I think its wrong. If you can't do something fair then don't do it at all thats the way I look at things. If only there were a lot more people like Mike Newell then the game would be a lot more honest.

When it comes to diving to win penalties do you have the same view I do and say that its cheating or do you simply say ah thats the game!

Exactly. TheBaz, I've a feeling that if it was your money that was being wasted on secret and illegal payments to these managers then you might have a different opinion on it. How you can have a "who cares" opinion on something like this is baffling.

Football Agents should be scrutinised far more closely than they already are, if not done away with altogether.

Töpher

Everyone should feel effected by this who follows Premiership football, even those on this side of the water who may only give a small amount of money directly to the club. Imagine how those local to the club, who pay into every game, and every away game, and buy every jersey feel? Simply put, some of what you hand over is being stolen by scum.

I know I;d be rightly pissed off! Is there really a need for agents?

therecklessone

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Exactly. TheBaz, I've a feeling that if it was your money that was being wasted on secret and illegal payments to these managers then you might have a different opinion on it. How you can have a "who cares" opinion on something like this is baffling.

Totally agree.

That we all now it happens is without question,that we should accept it as part of the game is baffling. Should we accept diving, professional fouls, racism, increasing ticket prices, etc etc (list is endless) just because "they happen"?

I'll pay close to £900 for my season ticket, away tickets, and assorted extra cup ties this year at Spurs, on top of c. €2500 on travel to and from games and accomodation. I don't want a red cent to be diverted to grasping managers or agents or anyone else. And its our money that pays in the end, either through gate receipts, merchandise, refreshment sales, TV subs and the like. We're the ones being conned.

thebaz

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Exactly. TheBaz, I've a feeling that if it was your money that was being wasted on secret and illegal payments to these managers then you might have a different opinion on it. How you can have a "who cares" opinion on something like this is baffling.

Football Agents should be scrutinised far more closely than they already are, if not done away with altogether.

Make one or two trips a year to see Everton, but live in Dublin so its difficult !!
I have stated and agree that it is the Agents that are at the root of the problem, but if some of my money is being used (small i know) for bung purposes , i (honestly) would not be that upset .
Are Newcastle fans upset that the club has to shell out a 100 k a week on Michael Owen when he wont play a game all season.
Chelsea had Bogarde on the books , for about 20 -40 k a week , and i dont think he played a game - before abromovic
Leeds payed Brolin obsene amounts of money just to get fat .
My point is there are many aspect to the game i don't like , but all professional sport has dody dealing -- i'm sure theres a lot of backhanders going down in the K Club , to get tickets etc .
I accept it as a part of life -- Match fixing that happened in Italy , or performance enhancing drugs as per cycling would be a different story .

Xavi6

thebaz wrote:

Make one or two trips a year to see Everton, but live in Dublin so its difficult !!
I have stated and agree that it is the Agents that are at the root of the problem, but if some of my money is being used (small i know) for bung purposes , i (honestly) would not be that upset .
Are Newcastle fans upset that the club has to shell out a 100 k a week on Michael Owen when he wont play a game all season.
Chelsea had Bogarde on the books , for about 20 -40 k a week , and i dont think he played a game - before abromovic
Leeds payed Brolin obsene amounts of money just to get fat .
My point is there are many aspect to the game i don't like , but all professional sport has dody dealing -- i'm sure theres a lot of backhanders going down in the K Club , to get tickets etc .
I accept it as a part of life -- Match fixing that happened in Italy , or performance enhancing drugs as per cycling would be a different story .

So some wrongs are ok but others aren't? Surely the aim should be to stamp out all wrong doing in the game and not turn a blind eye to some lesser crimes. That in itself is a form of corruption.

As for Michael Owen, no I don't Newcastle fans are annoyed at paying the wages of a legitimately injured player. I'd say the feeling they have is more of sympathy.

Töpher

By not having a problem with it, you are effectively saying it isn't really a problem. If I was handing money over to a Premiership club, and saw that last night, I'd be screaming blue murder - especially if it was one of those shown.

It's clearly in the open now, so there's no excuse for not doing anything about it.

thebaz

Xavi6 wrote:

So some wrongs are ok but others aren't? Surely the aim should be to stamp out all wrong doing in the game and not turn a blind eye to some lesser crimes. That in itself is a form of corruption.

As for Michael Owen, no I don't Newcastle fans are annoyed at paying the wages of a legitimately injured player. I'd say the feeling they have is more of sympathy.

The problem is you never will stamp out all wrongdoing , is there any sport that is pure ?
I suppose what gets on my wick, is a lot of people love jumping on the knock the premiership boat , as ive said its not perfect , but does have a purpose and provides entertainment to many here (including kids) and abroad .
i have enjoyed watching Zola, Cantona, Bergkamp, Gullit, Klinsman etc .. i remember match of the day before the premiership , and entertaining it wasn't .
As regards Owen, i wish him well and know he is not a lazy type, so i take it back .

Töpher

thebaz wrote:

The problem is you never will stamp out all wrongdoing , is there any sport that is pure ?

True, but why let it? Next we'll make diving a legitimate part of the game, if we follow your logic of leaving it alone.

thebaz wrote:

I suppose what gets on my wick, is a lot of people love jumping on the knock the premiership boat

People tore into Serie A after the match fixing. People tear into the Eircom League all the time. People would tear into La Liga if this programme had been about it (it was English, and so focused on the English game). Take the good with the bad, as they say.

thebaz

Einst&#252 wrote: »

People tore into Serie A after the match fixing. People tear into the Eircom League all the time. People would tear into La Liga if this programme had been about it (it was English, and so focused on the English game). Take the good with the bad, as they say.

What happened in Italy was 100 % cheating , and not comparable to bungs.
Yes bungs are wrong, and shouldn't happen, but match fixing is just rotteness at a completly different level , and if that was the charge , i would be joining in on the attack .
Can you imagine if we were all cycling fans , and all our stars were doped to the gills !!

Töpher

Fair enough. I know I'd have serious complaints about dodgy officials stealing money I put into my club. Then again, if you don't put much in, you don't lose much to these scumbags either.

MrJoeSoap

thebaz wrote:

What happened in Italy was 100 % cheating , and not comparable to bungs.
Yes bungs are wrong, and shouldn't happen, but match fixing is just rotteness at a completly different level , and if that was the charge , i would be joining in on the attack .
Can you imagine if we were all cycling fans , and all our stars were doped to the gills !!

You're ignoring the point completely. Obviously match-fixing is much worse, but it doesn't excuse the horrible level of white-collar crime in the Premiership. There's no point changing the subject or bringing anything else up, because the only thing to be discussed here is the 'bungs' that Harry Redknapp and the Allardyce's were shown taking last night.

If you don't care, then theres not much point in continuing to post.