Discussion on the rules ???

Villain

Ok first of all I'm not starting this thread to slag off the moderators or discuss recent bannings if anyone wants to discuss those topics there is a thread in Feedback.

The reason I started this thread was I think it might be a good idea to have a discussion on the forum rules like in Politics so uses can have an input into what they think the charter should be and then mods decide to ignore the ideas or take them on board?

Just an idea mods, hope I'm not stepping on anyones toes?

boardsdotie

irish1 wrote:

Ok first of all I'm not starting this thread to slag off the moderators or discuss recent bannings if anyone wants to discuss those topics there is a thread in Feedback.

The reason I started this thread was I think it might be a good idea to have a discussion on the forum rules like in Politics so uses can have an input into what they think the charter should be and then mods decide to ignore the ideas or take them on board?

Just an idea mods, hope I'm not stepping on anyones toes?

The fact we have to apologise while posting shows we are a little afraid of upsetting moderators.

While I understand the overseers trying to moderate and keep "Weather" as professional as possible why not create a seperate section for pure opinion and so called exageration. JMO

fatherdougalmag

I've often thought of the idea for having a week by week (or event by event) competition where people would put forward their forecasts and then, when the event has been and gone, they are scored based on the accuracy of their forecast. Like earning some kind of kudos rating. Maybe even base it around specific weather stations (e.g. Dublin airport) so that they act as an independent observer of conditions.

As well as being a bit of a competition, it might make people do a bit more ecker when it comes to making a forecast. And, when a forecast is made, their kudos score is displayed alongside their forecast. Maybe even the betting peoeple could start taking bets as forecasters develop a form?!

Whats to discuss?
Dont post sensationalist titled threads and you wont have your threads title moderated.

I doubt you'd be banned for just posting threads,now that would be silly.

I only ever banned spam on this board and WC once and guess what I banned WC for? yes sensationalism.

This apparent fear to post threads has no grounds whatsoever.

Use your common sense and understand why a thread title might be changed , a thread moved/merged or locked.

Also note that sensationalist views arent censored,they are only ever as far as I can remember countered with logic or even agreed with if theres actual grounds for thinking that the sensational is coming.

Villain

Well the charter states:

New threads on this subject may only be created for specefic Winter weather events when they have happened and not ahead of when anyone thinks they are going to happen.

It also says

Similarally for other seasons,specefic weather events eg thunderstorms, heatwave etc can have their own thread only as they happen and not before

Now does that mean if the charts and weather discussions elsewhere show that there is a possible weather event coming we can't start a thread on it until the event actually happens??

I really do think the charter needs to simplified.

fatherdougalmag

... and guess what I banned WC for? yes sensationalism

Also note that sensationalist views arent censored,they are only ever as far as I can remember countered with logic or even agreed with

Is that not a contradiction? You can be banned for sensationalism but sensationalism isn't censored?

I'd rather see sensationalism deconstructed through fact-based argument including reference to previous forecast-outcome evidence (which is in line with the second statement). In other words, if a sensationalist forecast is made then those with the wherewithal to counter it make their feelins known through counter-forecast. In other other words, attack the post, not the poster.

And furthermore, all in good spirit folks. Like others have commented, this is a forum on a multi-disciplinary site. Fair enough if it was a site dedicated to weather discussion but I never happened upon the weather forum here for serious weather purposes. I'm not big into things like when 2 hurricanes join together and the phenomenon is named after some Japanese guy ... I view boards.ie weather forum as a more popular/easy to access place. Trying to compare any of the other weather-based sites like TWO and UKWW is a no-no. Not saying that this is any way lesser. It's a different kind of person passing through here.

I love the input from the various characters here. BillyTheSquid (bless 'im especially during hurricane season), Earthman/Tristrame, Mothman, DapperGent, Weathercheck and many others have made this a cool place to check in on. I'll look at charts as well as take input from here before telling the missus to take in her hanging baskets. That's as far as it goes people. If WC comes along and forecasts snow for next Sunday (extreme example) I'd rather see comments from other weather-heads to counter or support that view.

Just like if someone on one of the tech-based forums reckoned that the next big thing will be a voice activated TV-switcher device, we could laugh him down and say that's ridiculous or say that's not such a bad idea (my idea by the way - d'oh). Let the argument/proposal follow through a natural course of deconstruction or support. But don't bin/ban the poster out of hand because they've a track record.

I think that, at the end of the day, common sense is the best moderator. Admittedly, common sense might need to be administered from time to time but I'd rather see that than loose someone from the boards.ie/weather community. As someone has suggested (Longfield?) it might be an idea for a heated response to be CTRL-A/del'eted and a second attempt made before committing a response. God knows I've done that a few times accidentally and I've felt the better for it.

Hmm. Maybe I should have done it with this.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

Well the charter states:

It also says

Now does that mean if the charts and weather discussions elsewhere show that there is a possible weather event coming we can't start a thread on it until the event actually happens??

I really do think the charter needs to simplified.

*bangs head on the blackboard*

You shouldnt be making something thats not complicated into something that is...

It means you can start a current weather indications thread and discuss current indications and when an event is imminent,A storm has happened and is likely to track into us with a high degree of certainty then you can start a thread discussing that.

The purpose is to avoid several threads predicting nasty things that never happen.

A big NO NO would be starting threads with warnings of damage etc without contacting a mod first.

In other words as previously stated-a little common sense.
If you dont know,or arent sure if your topic is sensation ridden,just pm snowbie or dapper or even me if your stuck and you'll soon get an an answer.

fatherdougal wrote:

Is that not a contradiction? You can be banned for sensationalism but sensationalism isn't censored?

I'm talking about in the titles of the threads.
Whats not wanted to put it very simply are threads appearing on the front page of Boards.ie eminating from the weather board with silly sensationalist lock up your families titles or anything remotely of that nature.
Thats the essense of that rule.

By all means post stuff like that inside in a thread in the post and it will be quickly rebutted if thats whats needed.

Hope that clears it up a bit more.........

Snowbie

irish1 wrote:

The reason I started this thread was I think it might be a good idea to have a discussion on the forum rules like in Politics so uses can have an input into what they think the charter should be and then mods decide to ignore the ideas or take them on board?

I dont know about the charter on the politics forum,but charter rules are set in each fora to be adhered to.As a poster myself i would respect the charter on any other fora (like many do) or if i stepped offside i would be corrected and asked to get back onside.That should be no problem no offense would be taken either.
Why should it be different here.
Some people just take too many liberties imo.

darkman2

There is no future for this board. This is not working. The charter has to be changed. Its a rediculously strict charter for a weather forum. I urge the moderators to consider this request and to address it accordingy. Its simply not working and I as a forcaster cannot do what I want to do on this forum. I would gladly give my opinion on what this board could be and should be, as would many others. Correct the charter.

darkman2

Snowbie wrote:

I dont know about the charter on the politics forum,but charter rules are set in each fora to be adhered to.As a poster myself i would respect the charter on any other fora (like many do) or if i stepped offside i would be corrected and asked to get back onside.That should be no problem no offense would be taken either.
Why should it be different here.
Some people just take too many liberties imo.

Hvae you ever wondered why this forum is so empty - the charter. It is rediculously strict and needs to be changed.

darkman2

Snowbie wrote:

I dont know about the charter on the politics forum,but charter rules are set in each fora to be adhered to.As a poster myself i would respect the charter on any other fora (like many do) or if i stepped offside i would be corrected and asked to get back onside.That should be no problem no offense would be taken either.
Why should it be different here.
Some people just take too many liberties imo.

Have you ever wondered why this forum is so empty - the charter. It is rediculously strict and needs to be changed.

DapperGent

darkman2 wrote:

There is no future for this board. This is not working. The charter has to be changed. Its a rediculously strict charter for a weather forum. I urge the moderators to consider this request and to address it accordingy. Its simply not working and I as a forcaster cannot do what I want to do on this forum. I would gladly give my opinion on what this board could be and should be, as would many others. Correct the charter.

Suggestions rather than rants would be nice.

darkman2

NO,NO NO! This is not a rant and why did you close my other thread? You want to run a weather forum, run it properly or shut it down completely. Ive made every effort to make this board work but tbh its not working. The charter needs to be changed. The fact you decided to merge my thread typifies this. Change the charter.

darkman2

DapperGent does not see it fit that I should have an opinion on this so he decided to merge my previous thread. My argument was that the charter on this forum has to be changed, whats your opinion?

'There is no future for this board. This is not working. The charter has to be changed. It's a rediculously strict charter for a weather forum. I urge the moderators to consider this request and to address it accordingy. Its simply not working and I, as a forcaster, cannot do what I want to do on this forum. I would gladly give my opinion on what this board could be and should be, as would many others. Correct the charter.'

If Earthman was still a mod here he would at least take into account what I am saying. Or at least consider my opinion.

For example, instead of saying only whats GOING to happen why not say 'forecast an event that is within the realms of reasonable probability'. Whats wrong with that?

PPL should be allowed make whatever forecast they like. Its not as if boards members are visiting this forum and taking it seriously as it is.

Pongo

More a lurker on this forum than a poster, but here's my 2 cents anyway....

Weathercheck's posts were originally what drew my attention to this forum, back in December '04 when he called a white christmas way ahead of anyone else, one of his posts caught my eye on the main page...


His banning, for the second time, perhaps a bit harsh, but he did effectively publicly confront a mod, which probably deserved a temp ban. I'm glad it's not permanent however, as although I fully understand that he may be a bit, enthusiastic, with his forecasts he does contribute a fair bit to the forum, perhaps a bit over enthusiastic, but informative nonetheless, albeit in a Day After Tommorow kind of way...

The whole charter/ rules discussion thing? Well, yesterday I found myself agreeing with the 'it's too strict' camp, but I've just had a quick browse of the forum now, all recent weather posts are in the recent weather thread, the thunderstorms thread is where I'd look for thunderstorm posts, if there's any Hurricane actitvity Billy the Squid will have a thread keeping us updated, and if there's anything else on the horizon there will be a thread for that as well. The one thing about the forum I like is that there isn't a load of threads all over the place, there's a place for everything and everything is in it's place.

In short, the forum is tidy, easy to navigate and easy to read.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Snowbie

darkman2 wrote:

NO,NO NO! This is not a rant and why did you close my other thread? You want to run a weather forum, run it properly or shut it down completely. Ive made every effort to make this board work but tbh its not working. The charter needs to be changed. The fact you decided to merge my thread typifies this. Change the charter.

Really im very surprised in the way you are overreacting and ranting.
This weather board is working just fine.This is the first problem to arise in a year,stating the obvious.

If you think you have ammo to hit the mods on this board from feedback or from other threads you are very mistaken.
The charter has always worked fine.Its in place 2-3 years.
If it where to change suggestions not rants would suffice,thats for me and Dapper to decide what action to take if any.
You as a poster never had any problems like most posting on this forum why now.

This forum is tidy for ease of reading.
You have now started three threads on a relevant topic.
Stop nit picking and get over it.

sirpsycho

Sure met.ie cant even say what's GOING to happen! LOL

Yet, the mods are restricting people to talking ONLY about what IS happening right now. What's the point in a weather forum then when we can just look out the window :rolleyes:

Kimbot

I have followed the few threads about the moderation of the weather forum over the last few days and its amazing how the charter is written:

What the Charter Expects:

1. Oh look its after raining outside!!

2. Oh it was sunny YESTERDAY!!

3. Can someone tell me what the weather was like the day I was born??

They don't want people Forecasting then whats the point of having the forum!!
If you went to the hospital the Doctors will always give you worst case scenario because if they didn't they would be in big trouble if that worst case scenario happens!!

i.e. ME:::: Doctor whats wrong with me??
DOC::: Son you havea growth in your leg!! At best we can try take the growth out but if we fail you may loose your leg!!

Now if this happened:
Doc::: You have a growth in your leg... don't worry we can take it out and nothing else will come of it.....
After you wake up from surgery you find your leg is gone!!! The doc never said anything about that so you sue!!!

Moral!!! Everyone covers their own a$$e$ by giving the worst case scenario so the result always seems better with no fall back on them!!

Snowbie

darkman2 wrote:

Dappergent does not see it fit that I should have an opinion on this so he decided to merge my previous thread

Dapper merged your thread as it was relevant to another thread.
DM2 you are entitled like everyone to an opinion,but we wont listen to rants or spoilt expressions.If you keep starting threads all over this forum,they will be merged and thrown to recycle bin.Keep it simple.

If Earthman was still a mod here he would at least take into account what I am saying. Or at least consider my opinion.

Do you think.
Earthman/Tristrame was co writer of the charter.There has never been a problem with it.Again your opinion would be noted.Considered?

For example, instead of saying only whats GOING to happen why not say 'forecast an event that is within the realms of reasonable probability'. Whats wrong with that?

Elaborate more on this.
Then people will predict white christmas in Spring.Thunderstorms when its warm,Snow when its cold.Flooding when it rains.These are reasonable probabilities.Not always the case.

Its the right conditions you need for most events to occur as your well aware.
Not assumptions.You dont always get snow if a northerly appeared in Winter.
It would be blown right out of proportion.
So Elaborate on this for me please.

darkman2

An example:

New threads on this subject may only be created for specefic Winter weather events when they have happened and not ahead of when anyone thinks they are going to happen.

What is that about? You can forcast, you cant forcast? Only post on what has happened?

Perhaps someone can clarify?

Villain

Tristrame wrote:

*bangs head on the blackboard*

You shouldnt be making something thats not complicated into something that is...

It means you can start a current weather indications thread and discuss current indications and when an event is imminent,A storm has happened and is likely to track into us with a high degree of certainty then you can start a thread discussing that.

The purpose is to avoid several threads predicting nasty things that never happen.

A big NO NO would be starting threads with warnings of damage etc without contacting a mod first.

In other words as previously stated-a little common sense.
If you dont know,or arent sure if your topic is sensation ridden,just pm snowbie or dapper or even me if your stuck and you'll soon get an an answer.

The charter says you can't start threads until the event is happening??? Surely that means no forecasting?

I'm not making it complicated I'm just reading the charter?

DapperGent

darkman2 wrote:

DapperGent does not see it fit that I should have an opinion on this so he decided to merge my previous thread. My argument was that the charter on this forum has to be changed, whats your opinion?

There was already an existing thread to discuss any charter changes so I merged your thread into it. This is pretty common policy and I don't see how it can be interpreted as stripping you of your opinion. Please don't start another thead on this same topic anything you have to say keep it here.

To the rest of you: any constructive feedback on what you'd like to see in the charter is gratefully recieved and I'll take it on board. If instead you want to PM me full charter wordings I'll take them on board too. Cheers.

Villain

How about the charter states:

Threads should be only be started about possible weather events when there is data available to support that outcome e.g. charts or predictions from professional forecasters.

People should not make sensational statments which could cause alarm to people reading the forum without having very credible data backup, i.e. a severe weather warning from the Met Office or charts which are less than 48 hours out i.e. not from FI.

Users should check that there is not already a relevant thread open before posting a new thread.

In the event of a thread been closed or merged the Mod will give his/her reason and this should only be discussed in a PM with that mod, failing that in feedback.

Just ideas?

darkman2

We are obviously wasting our time here.

I will PM my idea for the charter.

Snowbie

irish1 wrote:

Just ideas?

Thats fine.

darkman2 wrote:

We are obviously wasting our time here.

Whats up now.
If you have a thought,well then post it for all to see.You want the charter changed well then lets see what you have.

Villain

Snowbie wrote:

Thats fine.

What do you think of my ideas?

Snowbie

We will gather all who wants to state ideas on what the charter should be first and see if it needs changing or altered.

Thanks irish1.

Supercell

Snowbie wrote:

We will gather all who wants to state ideas on what the charter should be first and see if it needs changing or altered.

Thanks irish1.

A Change Of Weather Will Bring a Change In Mood.

..sorry , can't resist!

I half wonder if the heavy weather lately has some posters nips in a twist causing them to totally over react to relatively minor post tidying up?

Damned if ye do and damned if ye don't eh ?

I quite like the warm windy weather thats signalling the return of more interesting (to me) weather..ie gales, floods, snow, etc etc

Lets all think of a nice dull col , ya know..just where bugger all happens..but maybe its an Omega setup and it January..there I go again loosing the run of meself.

Think the charter is mostly fine tbh, maybe a little more velvet slipper would be nicer (there i finally got on topic on this post!).

Dappergent, I'd like to order some snow this winter btw, so please let the lads in Glasnevin know they better deliver in January, that is all.

My thoughts exactly longfield-good post

Snowbie

Longfield wrote:

A Change Of Weather Will Bring a Change In Mood.

..sorry , can't resist!

Constructive thoughts and not criticism will help this forum move forward.
An alteration sounds good.
Good point.

lucernarian

I'll take this bit of a post of mine from another thread:

To be honest, we would be better off with a part of the Charter explaining how that this is an amateur board using publicly available tools with enthusiastic members. Hyperbole and inaccuracies may occur and this forum should not be used as a guide or as advice in times of danger to property or people.

The pinpoint clause (in stark contrast to the rest of the vague charter) needs surgery.

Weathercheck's or anyone else's exaggeration won't make much of a difference if we have sombre posts to back it up. It doesn't have to be Weathercheck who has to create that new thread whenever there's a hint of excitement.

I can only point the finger at myself for not contributing more. Anyway, it's good to have this discussion now before the busy season starts:p