Boy Racers vs Bikers

TempestSabre

ninja900 wrote:

I think this says a lot more about you than about the post you're commenting on tbh.

Well I don't get the logic that a noisy bike isn't annoying and is a safety mechanisim. Whereas a noisy car is annoying and doesn't help with safety.

nereid wrote:

...At the risk of sounding hypocritical however, I think that the safety aspect is more prevalent to bikes than cars. Also, "tuning" if you would call it that, a 1L car with a big exhaust is not quite the same as tuning a 1L bike with an exhaust....

Drax wrote:

J....I guess that non-bikers will throw them all into the 'noise pollution' category whereas bikers will argue that we doont go driving up and down the same street for half the night and that they are a safety feature in that people are more likely to become aware of a noisy bike....

IMO theres the same proportion of noisy bikers, winding up the throttle through estates during the evening/night as there are noisy boy racers. Or for that matter less noisy high powered execs, and sports cars. You can recognise a bike like a R6 from an Aprilla 125, or a Civic Sir from a S4. Like I said at the start...

TempestSabre wrote:

I think they are equally as bad.

But hey if you don't know the people you know you are are bothering...

ned78 wrote:

...I've no doubt one or two roll their eyes...

...who cares just do it anyway.

And from that link I posted earlier...

Sound outdoors falls off in level at 6dB per doubling of distance. The sound at the siren source has a maximum safe level that is largely set by the hearing protection requirements. Let's look at a general example.

Assume the siren level at 10' in front of the vehicle is 100dBA.

at 20' it will be 94dBA

at 40' it will be 88dBA

at 80' it will be 82dBA

at 160' it will be 76dBA

at 320' it will be 70dBA

at 640' it will be 64dBA

Now let's say that you need at least 75dBA of siren level to be audible through rolled up windows and over the car radio. In reality it might have to be 20dB higher if it's a boom car, or a Mercedes, or some other vehicle with very good sound isolation. The maximum warning distance you can get with a siren that begins with a 100dBA at 10' is about 160'.

At 30 MPH (44 ft/sec) closing speed that gives you about 4 seconds of warning for drivers ahead of you. At 60 MPH (88 feet per second) closing speed that only gives you 2 seconds of warning time. That's just the warning time for someone to begin to hear a siren, they still have to react and try to locate the emergency vehicle and then do something about it.

If the car has a loud audio system so that you needed 90dBA of siren level to be audible inside the car, then you only have about 35' of distance where the siren is loud enough to be heard inside the car. You're relying entirely on the flashing lights to warn the kid in the boom car, they likely won't even hear the air horn. At 30 MPH closing speed, that's less than 1 second for the driver to hear the siren and react. At 60 MPH closing speed that's less than 1/2 a second of warning time.

Owen

What has the audio level inside a car got to do with the noise of a Motorbike preventing a Pedestrian stepping out onto the road? All you've done is proven that if someone has double glazing, and a bike is a few hundred feet away, that the noisiest exhaust in the world won't be an issue for them.

It's a safety mechanism from the point of view that if you're on a street with no traffic, and you hear an engine, you're inclined not to step out onto the road without looking. If it's an extremely quiet engine, or worse still a Hybrid or Electric Scooter, you'll step out and get hit.

TempestSabre

Drax wrote:

....
Are you telling me that if are on the M50 for example and you hear a loud exhaust you dont know where its coming from?

sutty wrote:

...Oh and on the M50, it still works. I travil the twice M50 every day and at least once a day I will have someone try come into the same lane as me... within the same space. So bliping the trottle normaly makes them look. (Standurd horns on bikes are no good and very little db. Meaning someone in a car will normaly not be able to hear them at all)

Thats what's been suggested as a safety mechanisim on a motorway...

ned78 wrote:

....My girlfriend knows when to reheat the dinner because quite literally she can hear me 2 streets away....

Well either you can hear it or you can't. You guys need to get your stories/myths straight. I still don't see how a bike sound is usefully different from a car in determining direction. A pedestrian not paying attention, is usually oblivious to everything.

Assuming sound is so useful as a safety feature (for bikes only apparently) why is the sound restricted on production vehicles? You'd think they'd make them all sound like Harleys or a rung out R1 or 996.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_pollution
http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/noise/research/climate/nannexb.htm

Drax

TempestSabre wrote:

Thats what's been suggested as a safety mechanisim on a motorway...

Huh?

TempestSabre wrote:

Oh please enough of the bleeding heart of bikers.

Are you actually reading these posts, or are you on a one-man anti-bike mission??

TempestSabre wrote:

Well either you can hear it or you can't. You guys need to get your stories/myths straight. I still don't see how a bike sound is usefully different from a car in determining direction.

You are twisting this discussion. A loud bike is usefully different in that a car should not have to rely on a blip to alert another driver about its presence. The simple fact that bikes can appear almost from nowhere in seconds as well as the fact that they usually less visible than cars, means that anything that makes other drivers aware of it is useful.

Get a life - Get a bike!

overdriver

I'm an ex-biker, been off them for a couple of years now.
The guy up the road from me here has a Harley with biblically loud pipes. He wakes me up every morning at 6.30, and sometimes earlier, but I work nights,so I am not best pleased. I would like to see some evidence that they save lives, frankly. My experience riding bikes was that safety was down to me, not relying on others to see me, or hear me.
I think this "loud pipes are there for the biker's saftey" argument is churlish and childish, and if the EU have anything to do with it, it wouldn't be allowed anyway.
AFAIK it's illegal in the UK, but might not be here.

Owen

TempestSabre wrote:

Well either you can hear it or you can't. You guys need to get your stories/myths straight. I still don't see how a bike sound is usefully different from a car in determining direction. A pedestrian not paying attention, is usually oblivious to everything.

You really know how to selectively quote to try and piece together what's left of your argument, lol. If you were brave enough to quote my full reply to you, and not what would bolster your argument, you'd see that I explained - in simple words - just how she hears me coming, and the steps I take to make sure my neighbours aren't annoyed either.

It seems that you're the one who needs to get your quotes straight, and present a decent argument.

sneakyST

ninja900 wrote:

if you want to go down the whataboutery road, how about the car drivers who will squeeze a bike into the gutter to make a pass, tailgate to the point when they're almost touching the back wheel because they want to make you speed, reverse into a parked bike causing €000s of damage then do a runner, pull out without looking, pull out and see a bike and keep going because 'size wins', etc. etc. etc.
There's idiots and scumbags in every category of road user so getting into whataboutery is pointless.

I was merely replying to a comment made. I never said there wasnt gobsh***s in every category :rolleyes:

Owen

overdriver wrote:

IThe guy up the road from me here has a Harley with biblically loud pipes. He wakes me up every morning at 6.30, and sometimes earlier, but I work nights,so I am not best pleased. I would like to see some evidence that they save lives, frankly.

Have a look at one of my earlier posts. If you were a Pedestrian in a small town about to step out onto the road between parked cars and it was a Hybrid approaching, or a quiet car, you could easily be knocked down if you didn't use the old chesnut - The Safe Cross Code. But if you hear a loud enough vehicle approaching whether it's a bike, truck, bus ... automatically, and subconsciously, you'll be timid about placing one foot forward without ascertaining what's causing the din.

Idleater

overdriver wrote:

... and if the EU have anything to do with it, it wouldn't be allowed anyway.
AFAIK it's illegal in the UK, but might not be here.

Well as far as I know there is EU laws regarding noise emmissions.

And, just to prove you (and TS) wrong (sort of) about bike manufacturers not producing "loud" exhausts, they actually do.

The noise safety aspect of bikes is well known as many biker posters have stated here in this thread, and this is taken into account by the manufacturers. However, in order to pass EU regulations, they must do a "drive by" test at 5000rpm and the sound level must not be over 80 db (I can check what is stamped on my exhaust later on if you really want to know the specifics).

However, what they do, is they engineer a drop in performance just after 5000 rpm, which reduces the noise in order to pass the test, but leave the rest of the power curve unaltered. Aftermarket exhausts flatten out this drop in the curve. You can see an example of this

You can liken this to car manufacturers getting 5* safety record for head on collisions, but engineering their cars to pass this specific test, where it can be shown that very very rarely do incidents occur at precicely 0 degrees head on.

It's all legal, and it is done by everyone - car, bike, truck etc etc etc.

L.

Owen

TempestSabre wrote:

Assuming sound is so useful as a safety feature (for bikes only apparently) why is the sound restricted on production vehicles? You'd think they'd make them all sound like Harleys or a rung out R1 or 996.

Simply, most bikes, and cars, are restricted in terms of noise, and more importantly, due to Emmissions. Some aren't restricted at all ... to use your own words .... (And this cracks me up)

TempestSabre wrote:

You'd think they'd make them all sound like Harleys

Most important of all, not everyone's tastes are the same.

Drax

overdriver wrote:

My experience riding bikes was that safety was down to me, not relying on others to see me, or hear me.

Of course it is. But do you not think that loud pipes add to the full presence of your bike on the road. When you had bike(s), did you have loud exhausts or standard ones?

overdriver wrote:

AFAIK it's illegal in the UK, but might not be here.

Yep - this is true. It doesnt seem to be a deterrent to most UK bikers though! I think for their MOT, they have to put original exhausts back on their bikes - great for selling standard cans on Ebay!

overdriver wrote:

churlish

Had to look that word up on the web. I feel stupid now...

TempestSabre

Drax wrote:

Huh?
Are you actually reading these posts, or are you on a one-man anti-bike mission??

I've no agenda. I've said quite clearly I'm anti noisy cars AND bikes. That all the bikers choose to only focus on anti noisy bike comments. Kettle.. black.

Drax wrote:

You are twisting this discussion. A loud bike is usefully different in that a car should not have to rely on a blip to alert another driver about its presence.

Why not. If a person isn't looking they are not looking. They won't see a double decker bus. I don't get that point at all.

Drax wrote:

The simple fact that bikes can appear almost from nowhere in seconds as well as the fact that they usually less visible than cars, means that anything that makes other drivers aware of it is useful.

So in a couple of seconds someone can determine the direction of a vehicle faster than looking, and move to safety? We're taking 2-4 secs. I don't buy it. A car is slower and thus a person has more time to react. But apparently noise isn't a factor for cars, unless your one of the massive fleet of hybrids on the road.

TempestSabre

ned78 wrote:

You really know how to selectively quote to try and piece together what's left of your argument, lol. If you were brave enough to quote my full reply to you, and not what would bolster your argument, you'd see that I explained - in simple words - just how she hears me coming, and the steps I take to make sure my neighbours aren't annoyed either.

It seems that you're the one who needs to get your quotes straight, and present a decent argument.

If you look at the context of ned78 comment re: double glazing. The point of the quote was either you can't hear a bike through double glazing or you can hear streets away. You can't have it both ways. It wasn't quoted (in that instance) as indication of your empathy (or lack thereof) for your neighbours.

TempestSabre

nereid wrote:

....in order to pass EU regulations, they must do a "drive by" test at 5000rpm and the sound level must not be over 80 db (I can check what is stamped on my exhaust later on if you really want to know the specifics).

However, what they do, is they engineer a drop in performance just after 5000 rpm, which reduces the noise in order to pass the test, but leave the rest of the power curve unaltered. ....

ned78 wrote:

Simply, most bikes, and cars, are restricted in terms of noise, and more importantly, due to Emmissions. Some aren't restricted at all ... to use your own words .... (And this cracks me up) ...Most important of all, not everyone's tastes are the same.

Whats this got to do about taste?

Any vehicle thats noisy, is deliberately noisy, as you can choose to moderate the rev's and drive quietly where appropriate. That point was better made in the other thread. In context of this topic title, this thread is not about people blipping the throttle at a set of lights, but being deliberately noisy where its not appropriate, and is noise polution.

For me that applies equally to cars and bikes. I would have thought that should make me anti car and anti bike, but with the usual consistency by some it only makes me anti bikers for some illogical reason.

professore

TempestSabre wrote:

Can your girl friend tell which direction you are approaching from by the sound, or just that you are approaching?

Love the way you could care less about your neighbours and the pedestrian in an accident. Its all me me me isn't it. :rolleyes: Thankfully not all bikers are as selfish.

I think you are the selfish one.

Speaking as an ex biker (because riding a motorbike is brilliant but dangerous and I've got 3 kids) it's simple ... if someone cuts you off when you're in a car and you crash into them you have a fair to good chance of living. If you're on a motorbike you are dead. Plus I would say motorbikes are cut off 10 times more often than cars as people don't see them. I think this outweighs any politically correct BS about making some noise. Maybe cars should turn off their lights at night as it might annoy some residents.

I always look out for bikers but even I miss them sometimes - and most people are not even aware of them.

Hotblack Desiato

TempestSabre wrote:

Why not. If a person isn't looking they are not looking. They won't see a double decker bus. I don't get that point at all.

The difference is the bikes can move, legally, when cars can't.
Pedestrian sees stopped car and assumes that that means ALL traffic is stopped, it doesn't.

So in a couple of seconds someone can determine the direction of a vehicle faster than looking

They don't need to determine its direction. Just that SOMETHING is coming and that they need to stop long enough to re-engage brain.

But... I really get the impression that you couldn't care less as long as you think you're scoring debating points here.

Hotblack Desiato

overdriver wrote:

The guy up the road from me here has a Harley with biblically loud pipes. He wakes me up every morning at 6.30

These Harley riders (it's always middle age crisis Hardly Driveable pilots) running totally open pipes are the scum of the earth in my opinion and give all motorcyclists a bad name. There's a huge difference between loud enough to be heard and loud enough to make ears bleed.

Drax

ninja900 wrote:

I really get the impression that you couldn't care less as long as you think you're scoring debating points here.

Agreed. Although, in fairness to TempestSabre, he is certainly putting a lot of effort into his posts!

maidhc

From a quick glance at the thread I think Tempest's points are the most reasonable!

My own opinion on bikers and safety is that they tend to be their own worst enemy. I don't think noisy exhausts help much on greasy bends, and bikers could make themselves much easier to see if they obeyed lane markings and stayed where one would normally expect to be seeing motor vehicles.

TempestSabre

ninja900 wrote:

The difference is the bikes can move, legally, when cars can't.
Pedestrian sees stopped car and assumes that that means ALL traffic is stopped, it doesn't....They don't need to determine its direction. Just that SOMETHING is coming and that they need to stop long enough to re-engage brain.

Sorry but your talking about a very specific instance. Even then its questionable how effective a loud exhaust is in the couple of second before you're on top of them. People could be on the phone, listen to a walkman, deaf, etc. A loud exhaust is not a standard signal. A horn is. Why not use that. In heavy traffic theres a lot of other ambient noise, trucks, buses, boy racer with drum and bass and 4" through pipe.

ninja900 wrote:

But... I really get the impression that you couldn't care less as long as you think you're scoring debating points here.

Well its is a forum for debate isn't? I don't get the logic of anti noise=anti bike. if I said I thought buses were too noisy would I then be anti buses? Or that noise is an effectrive safety measure, or that is only effective for bikes and not cars. Besides this is well off topic. The issue was anti social noise not blipping the throttle as the lights change, or lang changing on a motorway. Its not cars are evil bikes/bikers are perfect thread. Though all threads with bikers usually end up there.

Its about anti social noise, not blipping the throttle in heavy traffic. I shouldn't have taken that bait and side tracked. My bad.

saobh_ie

I’ve been a motorcyclist (too skinny and bad at fighting to be a biker, and I shower. =D ) for a couple of years and a car driver for a couple of months. I’ve run near silent bikes, bikes with stock cans and bikes with fairly decent aftermarket cans.

I’m biased but I like a bike with a nice aftermarket exhaust, they tend to have a nice quality to them at low revs, just getting rid of the ‘patpatpatpatpat’ of some stock systems. It’s only when you open the suckers up that they start screaming. So you can be quiet or loud as appropriate.

You can sneak in and out of home without anybody realising, except on early commuting mornings where a full choke warm up is required resulting in the bike sitting at the side of the house roaring for five minutes, before you quieten it down and sneak out of the estate.

By contrast, the bean can exhausts with dubious performance benefits on your typical boy racer car that roars in and out of the estate at all hours of the day and night without any consideration for other residents? Hate the things.

TempestSabre wrote:

Sorry relying on someone hearing you to save your ass is screwy. Doesn't even work for emergency vehicles and they are huge with flashing light and painted bright colors! People still don't see or hear them.

But most people do, if your thinking about your riding/driving and ambling along in normal circumstances you should be spotting emergency vehicles at the limit of your vision the horizon or as soon as they come out from behind a building, even behind you. As for relying on somebody to hear us to save us.

We are not, an audible exhaust tone is one tiny simple thing that we do to make ourselves safer. We ride to be seen, take training on advanced riding/driving techniques, buy safety equipment, put auxiliary lights on our machines and fit louder exhausts. It’s a dangerous activity*, we do EVERYTHING we can to make it safer.

*Bikes aren’t dangerous but the roads and the other people on them sure as hell are.

TempestSabre wrote:

Its the the same way bikers, cyclists, and motorist cut each other up all the time, and people don't have 360 degree visibility 100% of the time, or have 100% attention on one task.

Bikers, Scooterati do not cut each other up, even if it looks like they did. Even in the city centre. There’s an unwritten un-conducted orchestra being performed perfectly inside that M50 thing. It’s facking beautiful.

You don’t need 360vis 100% of the time, its impossible to get. But you need to know what’s happening and likely to happen around your space and the space your going to be in. Don’t react to things you see, respond pro-actively to everything around you.

ned78 wrote:

Loud exhausts do save lives, and as a biker, it's a bit more of a worry when a Pedestrian steps out in front of us instead of a car. With a car, there's a prang, that's it. With a biker, the Pedestrian hits us, we loose our balance, our bikes go down, us with it, and it's entirely possible the Pedestrian can be trapped underneath too. And it's a lot more expensive to fix a bike that's been dropped, even slightly, than it is to replace a wing on a car.

I’m not afraid of pranging the car so I’ll just start mowing down pedestrians so. =] A pedestrian is less likely to step out in front of a car than a bike. If they’re hit by a car at slow speed they’ll get knocked in a heap, hurt themselves maybe badly, maybe not.

They get hit by a bike at slow speed by the nature of its construction, small profile, sharp edges, angled bits of steel, engineered to a high quality with not a millimetre of give they’ll get messed up, the bike will go down and the biker (provided he doesn’t go under the wheels of a truck and was wearing the right safety gear) will be pretty much okay.

sneakyST wrote:

In fairness Ned what about the ones who bang the car mirrors goin through

I’ve hit some mirrors in my time, most times, check them out, no damage, wave to car driver, and then piss off if they seem okay. I think I give a good impression of myself to car drivers on the road as somebody who takes myself seriously (well sometimes). One time, brand new bike, I went for a gap and destroyed two car mirrors all over the ground at once, well one was cracked, the other was vaporized. Found a safe spot for everybody to pull in, phoned a dealership, handed over the cash, was a payday.

Another occasion my trousers where flapping about and scraped a layer of mud off the side of some chicks car after I severely fecked up some filtering and had to throw the bike around to avoid taking mirrors and then putting myself under a jeep. I messed up, I’d only been back biking ten minutes after a couple of months away.

The car was perfect but I pulled in delayed myself for twenty minutes while she whined and moaned and looked for non-existent damage. I was writing down my name and number and she launched into a mad one that got me worried so I changed every third digit of my number.

TempestSabre wrote:

Yes all those couriers, love the way they let you out, signal clearly, stay in lane, obey all the road signs and signals. Nearly every junction you get to theres a biker waving you out, or leaving a gap for you to filter into. Theres just perfect. Really they should run the driving schools. All that experience gained on a provisional bike licence.

Actually, within my first month of biking I stopped all that letting people out stuff, staying in lane, obeying all the road signs. I still obey the signals and signal my intentions very clearly. Your in a car, in traffic, you pause to allow somebody to come out. Grand, everybody’s happy. On your bike, you stop to let somebody out. You get rear ended, you get undertaken, overtaken, the car your letting out sits there confused, then he moves and gets hit by the car undertaking you.

On my bike I’m safer and happier filtering and making progress, if it’s my right of way I’m not going to be courteous if it’s an unnecessary risk to my life.

TempestSabre

professore wrote:

...Speaking as an ex biker (because riding a motorbike is brilliant but dangerous and I've got 3 kids) ...

saobh_ie wrote:

...*Bikes aren’t dangerous but the roads and the other people on them sure as hell are....

Drax

saobh_ie wrote:

There’s an unwritten un-conducted orchestra being performed perfectly inside that M50 thing. It’s facking beautiful.

Class stuff!

TempestSabre

TempestSabre wrote:

....Its not cars are evil bikes/bikers are perfect thread. Though all threads with bikers usually end up there. ...

Pigeon Reaper

I don't let anything else out when I'm on the bike for the reason mentioned above. I've also been rear ended when I stopped at red lights as the cars behind decided they wanted to run the lights. I drive a car but it's very different to driving a bike and you can't compare them too easily apart from the fact they both use public roads and can travel at high speeds.

On the exhaust thing I have an aftermarket exhaust on my bike. It has a removable baffle that can come out for track days etc...

No one is perfect and no section of society is bove another no matter what some may think. It's a very short step between thinking a group is above another and eugenics or worse.

blorg

On the safety aspect: in my experience many, many pedestrians crossing the road in urban areas simply _don't_ look, they listen. I know this well as a (pedal) cyclist by the number of people who just simply drift out in front of me without looking. They do not do this in front of cars or motorbikes or they would be dead by now. I'm sure most of you have an appreciation of this - when crossing the road, at least some of your consideration is involved with sounds.

There is some concern over the pedestrian safety implications increasingly quiet cars such as hybrid vehicles. That article is from the National Federation for the Blind but I think the issue applies to all pedestrians to some degree.

Of course this does all depend on the level and loud boy racer exhausts on Micras just for the sake of it I don't particularly appreciate. I don't personally find loud motorbikes so annoying.

Hotblack Desiato

TempestSabre wrote:

Sorry but your talking about a very specific instance.

A good bit of my commute is through Dublin city centre so pedestrians are a real concern.

Even then its questionable how effective a loud exhaust is in the couple of second before you're on top of them.

Believe me, it IS effective. You can actually see them awakening from their trance
As I said above, I've switched between standard (ridiculously quiet these days for a bike IMHO, thanks to EU bureaucrats) and a mildly loud exhaust on the same bike, the difference in the behaviour of pedestrians and indeed other motorists was VERY noticeable.

People could be on the phone, listen to a walkman

God help their ears if their walkman is loud enough to drown out everything around them. If they're using it at a normal level they'll hear me ok.

deaf, etc.

I wouldn't worry about deaf adults, they're used to looking where they're going for obvious reasons. There is a deaf school somewhere in Dublin which I believe has warning signs nearby, any motorist should be careful there.

A loud exhaust is not a standard signal. A horn is. Why not use that.

As Saobh said, many of us bikers (And Saobh I don't buy into the stereotype that biker=knacker and can't figure out why we bikers would perpetrate it) modify our machines specifically to be seen and heard.

I have:
Dual dipped beam modification (EU idiots force bikes as sold to have only one dip on)
Twin 120dB Stebel air horns (standard bike horns usually pathetic)
Wolf aftermarket 'can' (stock silencer ridiculously quiet)
and I always wear a hi-vis vest

not because any of these items is a fashion statement but because they might make the difference between a near miss and a nasty incident.

Believe me, the average car driver would never use the horn, as a warning not aggression, as much as I do because I have to use it when someone is even thinking of pulling out on me, not just when they already are. But for that to happen I have to see them, interpret their intentions (even if unsignalled or illegal) and react in time.

The exhaust can and does mean that in many instances someone who would not have noticed my presence without a horn blast does indeed do so, and they notice me sooner.
When riding near a busy footpath I can't be honking at every pedestrian in case one might suddenly step out. If anyone thinking of stepping out can hear that I'm there then they and I are both safer. Naturally I'll slow down too in such a situation, but a whack of a bike even at 5 or 10mph isn't exactly pleasant.

Well its is a forum for debate isn't? I don't get the logic of anti noise=anti bike.

We're a sensitive bunch
Much of what we do, what we wear, what we put on our machines doesn't always make sense to Joe Public, and we come in for a lot of criticism just because we're a bit different in a scarily conformist world.
That said, I HATE to see bikes ridden recklessly or with ridiculous noise levels (remember this is down to choice of throttle / revs / time / place as well as choice of exhaust) as this tars us all in the public view.
Then there's the 'biker death wish carnage' crap that the Star, Herald, Indo print especially during the silly season... Very often the dead rider was an innocent victim of someone else's mistake but the rags don't care.

The issue was anti social noise not blipping the throttle as the lights change, or lang changing on a motorway. Its not cars are evil bikes/bikers are perfect thread. Though all threads with bikers usually end up there.

They do don't they!
I would agree with you on anti-social noise. But increasing the noise levels of your vehicle does not have to be anti-social.

SonOfPerdition

just had a quick read of this thread.

I'm a biker 90% of the time i'm on the road and a driver the remaining 10%. I consider myself a biker.

on occasion while driving the loud pipes of bikers splitting traffic have alerted me to their presence, and on one occasion stopped me making a lane change which "may" have caused a problem for the biker. Nice SP2 if i remember correctly.

but even as a biker and even knowing that on that single occasion the loud pipes saved a potential crash, i have to agree with tempest in this tread.

loud pipes are no match for safe responsible riding. It's noise pollution pure and simple, no matter what you ride or drive or where you do it. Bikers using the excuse that loud pipes make them more noticeable are talking out their arse. No offence lads, but surely riding responsibly, rolling of that throttle a bit earlier, slowing down, taking your time while lane splitting . .they are the ways to avoid problems.

This topic reminds me of the idiot bikers that religiously wear high viz vests, then proceed to split traffic on the m4 motorway at speeds greater than 100kmh.

The safety aspect of loud pipes is a smoke screen used by some bikers for years, and i never bought into it. Lets be honest here, its purely cause we love the sound of them and we don't care about the noise polution and the problems to other people.

All bikers know that volvo drivers are the worst (or were until the SUV brigade turned up en mass) because they feel so protected they become complacent while driving. It's the exact same principle for loud cans .. you rely on the nooise to make you noticeable and your riding adjusts accordingly, you take the odd risk knowing that you can be heard . .or think you can. By "you" i'm not refering to anyone specifically .. i mean the loud exhaust brigade in general.

so .. no more of this they make us safer ****e, how you ride makes you safer, not how you sound.

I'm still going to buy a staintune end can for my bike soon tho!
Ain't i the stinker!

Owen

They make us safer Perdition by adding to the already delicious cocktail of skills us Riders have : Defensive Driving, the ability to filter, respect for other road users, respect for the rules of the road. Having loud cans is in no way a substitute for roadcraft, but merely an addendum.

Drax

Jasus lads, this thread is skewing off to the left and will probably be moved to the motorbikes forum soon!

SonOfPerdition wrote:

loud pipes are no match for safe responsible riding.

As was already pointed out, of course it is no match!

I'd be very worried if bikers relied solely on the noise of their exhausts! The point I was making earlier was that although bikers shouldnt RELY on the noise, it can be an effective way of increasing your presence. ned78 put it perfectly:

ned78 wrote:

Having loud cans is in no way a substitute for roadcraft, but merely an addendum.

And as a cage driver and biker, surely you have been on the M50 or similar road and heard a bike coming and possibly (hopefully) moved to give them more room to filter up? As I go up the middle of M50 traffic I always take a look at mirrors of the people sitting in their cars. Very few are looking around and are usually (a) reading newspapers (yes I have seen this - one guy also looked like he was correcting exam papers) (b) on the phone (c) rubbernecking.

SonOfPerdition wrote:

idiot bikers that religiously wear high viz vests, then proceed to split traffic on the m4 motorway at speeds greater than 100kmh.

Agreed - this is dangerous behaviour, although I wouldnt go so far as to call them 'idiots'. If you have enough poke in your bike, you can safely execute this kind of manouver without getting into too much trouble.

SonOfPersition wrote:

I'm still going to buy a staintune end can for my bike soon tho!

Good man yourself!