10 year ban for 185kph in 80kph zone

mkennedy

hi.
just reading the independent today and read that some guy got a 10 year ban and 3 months in prison for doing 185kph in an 80kph zone.

harsh? fair?

but certainly these rulings seem a bit inconsistent given those other 2 guys recently in westmeath practically got off scot free for doing a similar speed (albeit on a dual carriageway and not an 80kph zone).

don't know the exact merits of each case but still 10 year ban vs no ban seems unusual.

i'd be interested in hearing the views of others in this forum.

mloc123

80kph is most likely a very built up area with pedestrians etc... Seems fair imo

alfie

the guy who got a 10year ban most probably had quite a number of previous convictions for road traffic offences

Max_Damage

mloc123 wrote:

80kph is most likely a very built up area with pedestrians etc... Seems fair imo

Built up area!?! I never heard of a built up area with a 50mph speed limit!

gyppo

Sounds like he got his just rewards. This guy was doing twice the legal limit, so i've no sympathy for him.

Pity last weeks pair (in westmeath btw )didnt get the same treatment.

Capt'n Midnight

Max_Damage wrote:

Built up area!?! I never heard of a built up area with a 50mph speed limit!

Blegard Road is 80kph, not sure if the coast road to Sutton is still 80kph and it's worse than many 50kph link roads.

anyone know where the offense was commited ?

garyh3

This weeks Meath Chronicle

Navan man 6 months sentence and 25 year ban for driving with no insurance for the 6th time !!!!!

is that worse that driving 185kpH????

Max_Damage

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Blegard Road is 80kph

Are you sure, I always though it was 60k

mloc123

Max_Damage wrote:

Built up area!?! I never heard of a built up area with a 50mph speed limit!

Dunno what I was thinking earlier, I was thinking about 50kph zones. Still and all, 80kph are usually roads with footpaths etc..

mloc123

garyh3 wrote:

This weeks Meath Chronicle

Navan man 6 months sentence and 25 year ban for driving with no insurance for the 6th time !!!!!

is that worse that driving 185kpH????

Yes. If he has been caught 6 times how long has he been doing it? Delighted for him.

leeroybrown

If I were caught doing 185kph on a motorway (even an empty one) I'd expect a ban of some kind. To do that on a road with an 80kph limit regardless of the quality should warrant a heavy punishment. That said a 10 years ban sounds quite long but I wouldn't like to see it at less than four years. To me banning someone for this long appears to exclude the possibility of them learning a lesson from it. If there was a history of offences then it might make more sense.

As for the comparison with the two guys, I think they got off extremely lightly. You tend to see quite a lot of judicial inconsistency. The punishment can sometimes have more to do with 'who you get' than how bad the offence is.

comer_97

it's definitely 80, i travel on it most days

cancan

a 10 year ban and 3 months in prison

Judge seems a bit mentally unstable - perhaps he has a thing for foreigners.

3 months in jail - chirst, and people applauding - lads - god help ye in the future if people think this is a resonable sentence.

Ireland seems to be turning into a police state for the middle classes, while proper criminals get it easy..........

What next - chopping someone hand off for being on a cell phone, stoning people who haven't their kids properly strapped in?

gyppo

cancan wrote:

Judge seems a bit mentally unstable - perhaps he has a thing for foreigners.

3 months in jail - chirst, and people applauding - lads - god help ye in the future if people think this is a resonable sentence.

Ireland seems to be turning into a police state for the middle classes, while proper criminals get it easy..........

What next - chopping someone hand off for being on a cell phone, stoning people who haven't their kids properly strapped in?

Maybe your outlook might be different if a loved one was killed/injured by the reckless acts of some other driver. Hope it never happens to you.

Seth Brundle

garyh3 wrote:

This weeks Meath Chronicle

Navan man 6 months sentence and 25 year ban for driving with no insurance for the 6th time !!!!!

is that worse that driving 185kpH????

If the driver ignored the laws this often a 25year ban won't stop him!

LostinBlanch

Actually I think it was his first offence, though I could be wrong.

Article in the Indo today about it (see below). Can't see him doing the 3 months though what with all the crowding in Mountjoy etc. Still it's some wakeup call. Anyone notice the 2nd last paragraph? People are being posted out fixed penalty notices and court summons to the wrong addresses? So theoretically they could have a warrant out for their arrest for not turning up in court because the courts had their wrong address?

A JUDGE has put a speeding driver behind bars.

The Irish Independent has learned that a prominent district court judge, John Coughlan, has jailed a driver caught speeding at 185kph in a 80kph zone for three months, and given him a 10-year driving ban.

The jail term and long disqualification signals a new zero tolerance blitz on speeding by the judiciary.

A stunned Adrian Tcaci (25), a Romanian national living in Blanchardstown, Dublin, branded as "crazy" the decision to jail him for three months for speeding on the Navan Road on December 5, 2005.

Tcaci, who stood before Judge Coughlan in the Dublin District Court earlier this week, was also disqualified from driving for 10 years and fined €2,000.

In addition, Tcaci, who is to appeal, was forced to pay a bail appeal fee of €100 and a separate, independent surety of €1,000 into court.

Stark contrast

The sentence is in stark contrast with another similar case last week which sparked public uproar.

Two men who filmed each other racing at similar speeds escaped lightly with €2,000 in fines, no penalty points, no disqualification and no jail time imposed by Judge John Neilan.

Road Safety supremo Gay Byrne, who branded Judge Neilan's decision last week as far too lenient, last night praised the sentence imposed by Judge Coughlan. It sent out a clear message, he said, which was in contrast with that of Judge Neilan. "I think this is definitely along the right lines and is a step in the right direction," he added.

"Well done to this judge (Judge Coughlan)," he told the Irish Independent.

But the Romanian defendant, who has been living in Ireland for four years, said he believes his sentence is "really crazy".

Adrian Tcaci (26), who works as a builder's labourer in Meath, says he does not know how he will support his family if jailed. He said he deeply regrets speeding to a friend's house, where he had gone to pick up a wallet he had lost.

"I have three young children and my wife is pregnant and cannot work, so who is going to feed them?" he asked. "I feel very hard about my sentence, especially being sent to prison for three months.

"I did speed, but I wasn't drunk and nothing happened. I did not crash or hurt anyone.

"My friend told me I had left my wallet in his car and I drove in the car in a hurryfor that.

"I feel it is very unfair that I have to go to prison. I have a family and have to go to work, and if I can't work my family is in a bad way. I don't know what I am going to do."

He said the 10-year driving ban has made him dependent on a friend from Clonee, who travels to his home every day to pick him up for work.

But he does not know how he will manage the journey to work in the future.

"I wish I had just got the fine, and not the ban," said Tcaci, who is currently on bail. His uncle paid his bail. He said he plans to speak to his solicitor today to look at the possibility of appealing his sentence.

The sentence handed down by Judge Coughlan is in stark contrast with the €2,000 fine handed down last week to two men who video-taped themselves travelling at speeds of 192kph on a busy Midlands Dual Carriageway.

The speeding sentences scandal escalated further as details emerged of another case in which a driver escaped with a €200 fine after being convicted of travelling at 198kph.

Caught

Motorists who are caught breaking speed limits have 28 days to pay a fixed charge notice, usually €80, and receive two penalty points. If they fail to pay up, they are given an additional 28 days to pay an increased fine of €120.

Failure to pay results in a court summons, but many drivers do not get a chance to answer the summons because fixed notice penalties and details of court appearances are issued to the wrong addresses.

In court, drivers face a mandatory four penalty points and a fine of up to €800, but rarely - until now - have they faced disqualification for a first-time offence.

Treacy Hogan and Dearbhail McDonald

cancan

Maybe your outlook might be different if a loved one was killed/injured by the reckless acts of some other driver. Hope it never happens to you.

Piece of advice for you - Don't go around here assuming to know what has gone on in the private lives of other members.




Think about it - in this case i would think that the punishment is harsh.

Just because speeding is flavour of the month in the papers, the usual bandwagon jumpers hop aboard - giving the middle classes something to be outraged about.

A well driven car in the right circumstances at these speeds possess an equal threat as some clown searching for radio one while taking his eyes of the road for a few secs.

It's just that the penalties are slightly different in each case.

A ten year ban ffs on the first offence?

ballooba

FYI: 185KMPH is 115MPH

ballooba

cancan wrote:

Piece of advice for you - Don't go around here assuming to know what has gone on in the private lives of other members.

Note the use of the words 'maybe' and 'if' in the post.

If someone close to you was injured or killed in an accident involving speed then indeed maybe your attitude probably should be different. That's up to the individual of course.

cancan wrote:

A well driven car in the right circumstances at these speeds possess an equal threat as some clown searching for radio one while taking his eyes of the road for a few secs.

Complete BS. Not at over twice the design speed for the road.

WRT to clowns, Two wrongs don't make a right.

mloc123

Anyone who knows the Navan road knows it is a well built up area with alot of people on either side walking on the footpaths, 115mph is just stupid. He deserves it.

Stark

cancan wrote:

Just because speeding is flavour of the month in the papers, the usual bandwagon jumpers hop aboard - giving the middle classes something to be outraged about.

I'm not anti-speeding. If someone wants to do 140kph on a quiet motorway, let them, it's only something to cry about if you're Charlie Bird. In my experience however, if a road in Ireland has an 80kph speed limit, it's usually for good reason (as opposed to 60kph limits which seem to be decided by council members throwing darts at a map on the wall). 185kph in that zone was very clearly dangerous driving. I don't agree with the prison sentence but it's a pity judges don't hand out driving bans more often when appropriate. It's only a harsh sentence if you see the freedom to drive as being some God-given right as opposed to a privilege.

Seth Brundle

ballooba wrote:

Complete BS. Not at over twice the design speed for the road.

mloc123 wrote:

Anyone who knows the Navan road knows it is a well built up area with alot of people on either side walking on the footpaths

The only 80km/h stretch of Navan Rd that I can think of is the section beyond Castleknock as you head towards the M50. It is a straight stretch with limited pedestrian activity and aside from a petrol station along either carriageway, there are very few entrances (some towards castleknock).
BTW, Im not condoning his speed.

kdevitt

mloc123 wrote:

Anyone who knows the Navan road knows it is a well built up area with alot of people on either side walking on the footpaths, 115mph is just stupid. He deserves it.

As Killian pointed out above - the residential section of the Navan Rd is 50kph. More than likely this was between the Little Chef and DG Opel. No footpaths, and not many houses, apart from the itinerants - but there have been loads of bad crashes at the Halfway House roundabout because people are going too fast coming down the Navan Rd.

Punishment is probably slightly harsh, but definitely inconsistant with what other judges are handing down.

Stark

They've reduced the speed limit to 80kph on the southbound section from Mulhuddart to the Blanchardstown roundabout as well.

gyppo

cancan wrote:

Piece of advice for you - Don't go around here assuming to know what has gone on in the private lives of other members.

As has already been pointed out to you by another poster, I did'nt assume anything - read the post again. My point was speculative.
Piece of advice for you - read, and try making a better grasp at understanding a post before you reply.

cancan wrote:

Just because speeding is flavour of the month in the papers, the usual bandwagon jumpers hop aboard - giving the middle classes something to be outraged about.

Flavour of the month? I think the topic of speeding and the assosiated carnage that goes with it has been around a lot longer than a month.

cancan wrote:

A well driven car in the right circumstances at these speeds possess an equal threat as some clown searching for radio one while taking his eyes of the road for a few secs.

Now you're just been embarrassing. There are NO circumstances where it is acceptable to drive at twice the legal limit.

seamus

80kph speed limits are usually in places on roads that are

a) Dual carraigeway but in built-up areas, and therefore likely to be carrying some form of slower-moving or vulnerable traffic like busses and bicycles (chapelizod bypass)

b) Intermediary sections of dual carriageway between two slower limits

c) Particularly windy dual carraigeway

d) Dangerous country road.

In none of the above four scenarios is 185kph even close to being "just a bit of gross speeding". It's dangerous driving, pure and simple, beyond any leeway you can make for human error - he drove at that speed with full intent and ignoring the law and conditions.

As someone else said, I would expect a ban and even a suspended sentence for doing that kind of speed on a motorway. Ten years might be a little harsh, 6 may be more appropriate, but tbh the longer this idiot can be kept off the road, the better. It may also send a message to all the non-IE regged drivers that they're not above the speeding laws.

Fanny Cradock

cancan wrote:

A well driven car in the right circumstances at these speeds possess an equal threat as some clown searching for radio one while taking his eyes of the road for a few secs.

Flimflam and poppycock. When is 185kph ever the right circumstance.

Do you think that a few drinks makes you a better driver?


Anywho, as a one time bike driver (now consigned to public transport), I really can't see why cars are designed to exceed the speed limit by such a vast extent. If 120kph is the limit, i.e. the law, then a car shouldn't be able to exceed that by much more.

_Kaiser_

OK.. first of yes the guy deserves to be banned (not sure about jail time though for this though given that we can't keep serious criminals behind bars in the first place and even when they are they can still run their criminal empires via mobiles :rolleyes: )

"Unfortunately" however the guy picked a very bad time to act the eejit given the public/Uncle Gaybo's outcry over the leniency shown to the 2 idiots on the N/M4 recently and THAT'S why this guy's sentence is so harsh.. it has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with facesaving/being seen do do something.

fletch

Anyone know what type of car he was driving? No reason I'm just curious.

cancan

Now you're just been embarrassing. There are NO circumstances where it is acceptable to drive at twice the legal limit.

I be very suprised if not everone on this board has done twice the legal limit on some occasions(s) in their life.
Ever enter an old 30mph zone, doing 60mph?

Do you think that jail time and a 10 year ban would have been justified in any of those cases?

Banning someone for that amount of time is both unresonable and unjustified. How is one supposed to expect to lead a normal life with such a ban.
A six month ban would have had the desired effect. Add a criminal record on top of that and you've just gone and ruined someones life.

It may also send a message to all the non-IE regged drivers that they're not above the speeding laws.

Thanks for making a point I alluded to earlier - in this case, I think the judge handed down a sentence that was higher due to the fact that the driver was a non national - There's a name for that, and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure that the law is supposed to treat those who come before it equally, or what behaviour like this by the judge is called.

seamus

It's not just new EU immigrants - it's (primarily) UK regged Irish drivers, and other "Old Europe" nationals who take these kind of liberties. There seems to be some sort of eagerness to play the racism card these days whenever anyone of a different nation finds themselves in trouble.