Have EU Imigrants Benefited The Irish Republic?

Hobbes

LOOK AT ME GUYS IF SPAM SOMETHING IN CAPITALS AND RED IT SUDDENLY BECOMES TRUE!! PIXIES CONTROL THE WORLD BANK!

More seriously (sans red)

neolxs wrote:

SO IF MORE IRISH ARE CLAIMING BENEFITS THAT WOULD SUGGEST LOWER LIVING STANDARDS OR MORE UNEMPLOYED!

That is not true at all. For example I myself claim child benefit and I am employed. If anything it has improved my living standards. I also save money by claiming tax credits off my wife and because she stays at home and looks after my son we also get benefits for that as well. That was one thing that I didn't even know about until the Revenue told me.

We can claim some of stuff back in relation to medical (not much as I am employed).

See how the system works yet?

CHILD BENEFIT IS AUTOMATIC, CHILD SUPPLEMENT CAN BE CLAIMED FROM DAY 1

No to both. If you bother to go http://www.oasis.gov.ie and look it up you will in fact see that you are very wrong.

FIS CAN BE CLAIMED

Again, go to Oasis. You would see that you would (a) need at least one child (b) child must be living in Ireland and (c) you must be earning under 460 euros before you will even be considered for FIS.

UNEMPLOYMENT CANT BE CLAIMED BUT SOCIAL WELLFARE CAN! THIS ALSO PAYS THE SAME AMOUNT AS UNEMPLOYMENT!

Do you even know what you can claim? I suspect you don't.

Incidently for Social welfare you can't just claim it. You have to be means tested and you have to be paying PRSI for some time.

WRONG. ANYONE LIVING IN IRELAND HAS THE BASIC RIGHT TO RECEIVE SOCIAL WELLFARE PAYMENTS, REGARDLESS OF ORIGIN.

Here let me help you a bit, you seem to be horribly mis-informed.

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/social_welfare_system_in_ireland.html

YES, BUT ABOUT TO END AS STARTING WORK AGAIN!

I hope its in a capslock factory. We need more capslock keys.

I am curious how you managed to get this job when all the foriengers are taking the jobs?

Zombrex

neolxs wrote:

IRISH MOVING BACK TO IRELAND

Ummm, interesting

So the social welfare system isn't cracking under the weight of Polish people, it is all the fecking ex-pats coming back to sponge off the state ... wait a minute .. did you not work and live in England and then come back...

neolxs wrote:

THERE IS HISTORICAL LINKS AND TIES BETWEEN IRELAND AND THE UK. WE ALSO HAVE SPECIAL TREATIES TO ALLOW FREEDOM BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES UNIQUE IN THE WORLD.

"Historical links" ... umm, yes that is quite a popular excuse for Irish who emmigrated to England, the US, Austriala, Saudi Arabai (Saudi Arabia??) but now like to bitch about how bad immigration into Ireland is.

Tell me do "historical links" pay for social services? Because if they don't I fail to see the difference.

neolxs wrote:

PRIOR TO THE 90`S YES, BUT WE MOSTLY WENT TO THE UK AND AMERICA WHERE WE HAVE STRONG SOCIAL AND HISTORICAL LINKS.

There is that phrase again. Historical Links ... umm, maybe you don't realise this but those historical links to the US and England were formed by Irish people emmigrating to those countries in the first place. In 5-10 years Poland is going to have "historical links" with Ireland. So I guess you won't have any objection then :rolleyes:

And I still don't see how "historical links" pay more taxes or social services.

neolxs wrote:

FURTHERMORE SWEDEN DOSENT HAVE CHEAP AIR CARRIERS SUCH AS RYAN AIR OR EASYJET OFFERING CHEAP FLIGHTS FOR 1CENT![/COLOR]

Sweden have MUCH better social services than we do. And they also have planes. I got to hand it to you neolxs that is a new one. Polish immigrants come to Ireland because of Ryanair .... ummm ....

neolxs wrote:

OUR POPULATION IS INCREASING EACH YEAR DUE TO IMIGRATION. THUS OUR OVERALL SPEND IN SOCIAL WELLFARE INCREASES TOO.

Actually it doesn't, since the vast majority of immigrants work legally and don't qualify for benefits, or work illegally and aren't in the system to begin with.

neolxs wrote:

SO SCREW THE COUNTRY AND GOOD LUCK TO ANYONE WHO SCREWS US OVER?

You are the one who wants to get rid of the immigrant workers for some ridiculous lack of "historical links" with Poland (seriously, historical links? wtf?).

That will screw the country neolxs, that will screw the economy. But you don't seem that pushed about that fact. You just want your min-wage job back. F**k the rest of us, f**k the health care service.

If there is an economic turn down in Ireland it will not be because of immigrants. They prop up the economy, not drain it. And if that turn down comes you won't have to worry about the immigrants because they will be long gone, off to find jobs somewhere else. And you and me will probably be following them. But of course only to countries with "HISTORICAL LINKS" to Ireland. Like Tailand, or China :rolleyes:

neolxs wrote:

IRELAND OFFER A GENEROUS WELLFARE SYSTEM. I WAS EARNING €32000. PAYING AROUND €150 PER MONTH IN TAX AND PRSI. I HAVE 4 KIDS.

I would tell you to get a better job. I know college graduates earning more than that.

You can't blame immigrants because you are stuck at the low end of the pay group, thats not going to help. Get a skill set, and get a job with a career path. There is no excuse with FAS and all the Higher Education plans out there to be stuck in a rut pay wise, with employment at a record low.

Or don't I don't really care. But stop complaining because you are an unskilled worker with 4 kids competting against Polish 20 year olds for a job in Spar.

neolxs wrote:

mY TAKE HOME PAY WAS AROUND €30,000 PER YEAR AFTER TAX AND PRSI.

So you were really paying f**k all in tax. Is it not a bit rich then to be complaining about where your almost non-existance tax money is going? I pay 5 times as much tax as you a year.

neolxs wrote:

€25,000 PER YEAR FOR DOING NOTHING SOUND GOOD TO YOU?

No, it doesn't. It sounds crap to me. As I imagine it does to anyone but the scumbags of Finglas. Its fine for someone like yourself who was in between jobs, but the idea that someone from Poland would come over here to claim that, and still have to live here, is ridiculous.

neolxs wrote:

BUT LOOK AT THE STANDARDS, WAITING TIMES, COSTS FOR a&e, THIS IS ALL DUE TO POPULATION GROWTH!

That has very little to due with our population growth. As has been pointed out, the hospitals were in dire straights in the early 90s before any of this happened. The only thing that saved them from complete melt down in the mid-90s was foreign nurses from the EU and Asia.

Are you just picking random things and, for no apparent logical reason, blaming immigrants. Oh my bus was late! Damn immigrants.

As Moe says in the Simpsons "Even when it was the bears I knew it was the immgirants"

neolxs wrote:

sO UNEMPLOYMENT IS UP. aLBEIT A SMALL PERCENTAGE, BUT THEN LOOK AT THE WELLFARE CLAIMS

It is as it always goes up at that time of year. 0.1 is nothing. It is like the 4th year college kids who failed their final exams and can't get a job. Less probably.

And what about those wellfare claims. You have completely failed to link them to EU immigrants, and considering they can't claim anything for 2 years I fail to see how you could anyway.

neolxs wrote:

I PAID NO IRISH TAX, BUT THEN I DIDNT LIVE IN IRELAND THEN.

Yet you think Poland should pay child support for the children of works living and working in Ireland .... ummm

neolxs wrote:

BUT I DID SPEND MY WAGES ON THE BRITISH ECONOMY AND NOT SEND ALL MY MONEY BACK HOME TO IRELAND!

LOL .. and what do the Polish people do? The buy their food, petrol, clothes, furniture, rent etc in Poland and have it shipped over to Ireland at the weekend :rolleyes:

neolxs wrote:

MY POINT IS THAT THERE IS NO FIGURES TO SAY WHAT NATIONALITY CAUSES CRIME. HOWEVER THERE IS A STRONG INDICATOR THAT SHOWS OUR INCREASE IN CRIME WHICH IS 2.7% GOES ALONG WITH OUR INCREASE IN POPULATION 3.3%.

Your mate Paddy in the pub who's sister knows a bloke whos ex-girlfriend's mother used to work for a chip shop beside the local Garda station is not "a strong indicator"

gandalf

neolxs wrote:

Or the far far more plausable explination that more Irish people are claiming social welfare benefits ....
SO IF MORE IRISH ARE CLAIMING BENEFITS THAT WOULD SUGGEST LOWER LIVING STANDARDS OR MORE UNEMPLOYED!

It also suggests that more people are claiming something like Child Benefit as well and given there is a baby boom going on that could explain the increased benefit claims.

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that since 2004 you have to be resident in Ireland for 2 years before you can claim the majority of social welfare types, such as child benefit. SUCH AS? CHILD BENEFIT IS AUTOMATIC, CHILD SUPPLEMENT CAN BE CLAIMED FROM DAY 1, FIS CAN BE CLAIMED. UNEMPLOYMENT CANT BE CLAIMED BUT SOCIAL WELLFARE CAN! THIS ALSO PAYS THE SAME AMOUNT AS UNEMPLOYMENT!

As Hobbes said check out that Oasis website and educate yourself, however I have the feeling you are cutting and pasting these replies and are not really willing to engage in a debate, just soundbites and mistruths.

Since Poland and the 9 other states only joined in 2004 none of the Polish workers in Ireland would be claiming social benefit yet.

WRONG. ANYONE LIVING IN IRELAND HAS THE BASIC RIGHT TO RECEIVE SOCIAL WELLFARE PAYMENTS, REGARDLESS OF ORIGIN. THE ONLY THING THEY CAN RECEIVE IS UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT, BUT WHEN THIS PAYS OUT THE SAME I DONT THINK THE IMMIGRANT WILL BE TOO BOTHERED!

Wrong be a good citizen and familiarise yourself with the subject please rather than waste our time with your illinformed rubbish.

Do you claim social welfare?
YES, BUT ABOUT TO END AS STARTING WORK AGAIN!

God I hope you didn't displace a poor Polish worker :rolleyes:

neolxs

So now you all have to choose to get clever about RED CAPS LOCKS!

The caps locks were used to help people read my replies to the questions you put. But because Red Caps seem to upset you guys so much Ill try not to use them again.

www.oasis.gov.ie
F. APPLICATION OF THE HRC CONDITION TO EEA WORKERS
Under Article 7(1) of EEC Regulation 1612/68 ( which deals with the freedom of movement of workers with the European Economic Area ( EEA)) a worker who is a national of a Member State may not, in the territory of the another Member State, be treated differently from national workers by reason of his/her nationality in respect of any conditions of employment and work, in particular as regards remuneration, dismissal and should s/he become unemployed, reinstatement or re-employment. Under Article 7(2) s/he shall enjoy the same social and tax advantages as national workers there.

The European Court of Justice has held that social benefits guaranteeing the minimum means of subsistence such as Supplementary Welfare Allowance, is a social advantage within the meaning of Article 7(2) of Regulation 1612/68. Accordingly on the basis of the principle of equal treatment as outlined above, workers from other EEA countries should be treated in the same way as national (Irish) workers in determining entitlement to Supplementary Welfare Allowance. This will apply particularly to part-time workers working less than 30 hours a week who may qualify for SWA.

(Note: This requirement does not apply in the case of other social welfare benefits such as Unemployment Assistance or Old Age Pension as the provisions of Regulation 1408/71 which deal with the co-ordination of social security entitlements for migrant workers moving within the EEA contains specific rules in relation to such payments and take precedence over Regulation 1612/68 in this respect.)

Conditions
You will normally qualify for Supplementary Welfare Allowance if you satisfy the following conditions:

You are living in the state
You satisfy the means test
You have applied for any other benefit/allowance you may be entitled to
You satisfy the habitual residence test, except for the Exceptional Needs Payment. EU/EEA workers will satisfy the habitual residence condition.

neolxs

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

How did you find out what your alleged replacement is being paid?

I'm not going to get an answer am I? If you're going to take the time to spam the thread with a load of made up twaddle, you can take the time to answer one simple question I think.

Well heres your awnser! I asked! Amazing that isnt it! I did know people where I worked within the payroll section and they werent impressed by the way I was treated and were happy to oblige and tell me what i wanted to know!

Happy now? Can you sleep at night?

neolxs

Wicknight wrote:

No it woud suggest change in the various systems brought on by an increased general tax income (more state money, more state money to spend on welfare). And what do you find? A whole rake of changes which were brought in between 1995 and 2004. Strange that.


No, they can't.

https://www.welfare.ie/publications/hrc.html

The following payments are now subject to a habitual residency condition:

• Unemployment Assistance
• Old Age Non-Contributory Pension
• Blind Pension
• Widow(er)'s and Orphan's Non-Contributory Pensions
• One-parent Family Payment
• Carer's Allowance
• Disability Allowance
• Supplementary Welfare Allowance (other than once-off exceptional and urgent needs payments) and
• Child Benefit

You have to pass the Habitual Residency test, proving you have been resident in Ireland for 2 or more years to claim these benefits

Generally an applicant who has been present in Ireland for 2 years or more, works here and has a settled intention to remain in Ireland and make it his/her permanent home will also satisfy the habitual residence condition.



Not if they came here before 1st May 2004 and have not been living here for 2 years.

I mean I don't even fully agree with that, but it shows that your "fears" are pretty unfounded. So I would wonder where you got all this bogus info from? Chatting to your mates down the pub? Or from the local taxi driver?

And what is with the fecking red cap-locks writing?


Good for you. Since you hate the social welfare system so much can I have back my tax money that paid for your unemployment benefit?

The social Welfare budget has doubled since 1995. Does tis mean that payments have doubled? Of course not. So where is the money? Paid to more people, this is backed up when you look at the welfare spend. THERE IS MORE CLAIMANTS! What else happened around the same time? Population Growth through Immigration.

As for the Habitatual residence claim you make, our beloved EU have made that illegal unless you come to ireland looking for work. If you come to Ireland and get a job you can then claim full Irish Benefits.

neolxs

Hobbes wrote:

LOOK AT ME GUYS IF SPAM SOMETHING IN CAPITALS AND RED IT SUDDENLY BECOMES TRUE!! PIXIES CONTROL THE WORLD BANK!

More seriously (sans red)



That is not true at all. For example I myself claim child benefit and I am employed. If anything it has improved my living standards. I also save money by claiming tax credits off my wife and because she stays at home and looks after my son we also get benefits for that as well. That was one thing that I didn't even know about until the Revenue told me.

We can claim some of stuff back in relation to medical (not much as I am employed).

See how the system works yet?



No to both. If you bother to go http://www.oasis.gov.ie and look it up you will in fact see that you are very wrong.



Again, go to Oasis. You would see that you would (a) need at least one child (b) child must be living in Ireland and (c) you must be earning under 460 euros before you will even be considered for FIS.



Do you even know what you can claim? I suspect you don't.

Incidently for Social welfare you can't just claim it. You have to be means tested and you have to be paying PRSI for some time.



Here let me help you a bit, you seem to be horribly mis-informed.

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/social_welfare_system_in_ireland.html



I hope its in a capslock factory. We need more capslock keys.

I am curious how you managed to get this job when all the foriengers are taking the jobs?

Most people now how to claim Child benefit and do. Most people are PAYE so there tax deductions are done. As in regards to being able to claim back Tax Credits every year when I receive my tax credit form it informs me of what I can claim. This is nothing new! If you dont claim thats your fault. But that but claiming a few exxtra quid for bin collections is hardly going to double the welfare budget in 5 years.

ArthurDent

neolxs wrote:

The social Welfare budget has doubled since 1995. Does tis mean that payments have doubled? Of course not. So where is the money? Paid to more people, this is backed up when you look at the welfare spend. THERE IS MORE CLAIMANTS! What else happened around the same time? Population Growth through Immigration.

As for the Habitatual residence claim you make, our beloved EU have made that illegal unless you come to ireland looking for work. If you come to Ireland and get a job you can then claim full Irish Benefits.

Well since 1995 I've had 2 kids, with a 3rd due any day now - so I have to put my hand up and say that I'm guilty of being one of those extra claimants (and if memory sevrves me correctly Child benefit in '99 when I had my first son was something like £30 or £40 a month- next month it will be €500/month for me - way more than doubled (even per child).

Also on your second point - you're saying if you come to Ireland, get a job, pay tax, rent, mortgage, utilities, contribute to the economy - that shock horror you are entitled to the same benefits as any other Joe and Joesphine Soap - how can you have a problem with that - these immigrants are contributing exactly the same as everyone else and getting exactly the same benefits as everyone else - how can you have an issue with that?

neolxs

Originally Posted by neolxs
IRISH MOVING BACK TO IRELAND

Ummm, interesting

So the social welfare system isn't cracking under the weight of Polish people, it is all the fecking ex-pats coming back to sponge off the state ... wait a minute .. did you not work and live in England and then come back...

So what you are saying is that the majority of polish arent doing the low skilled jobs that the Irish dont want, but are in fact doing high paid skilled jobs pumping thousands back into the economy? And everytime I got to Mcdonalds its Paddy that is serving me and not Mr Polish?

Most Imigrants are working in low skilled jobs that pays sod all, but topped up with a Social Welfare payment of some kind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
THERE IS HISTORICAL LINKS AND TIES BETWEEN IRELAND AND THE UK. WE ALSO HAVE SPECIAL TREATIES TO ALLOW FREEDOM BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES UNIQUE IN THE WORLD.


"Historical links" ... umm, yes that is quite a popular excuse for Irish who emmigrated to England, the US, Austriala, Saudi Arabai (Saudi Arabia??) but now like to bitch about how bad immigration into Ireland is.

Tell me do "historical links" pay for social services? Because if they don't I fail to see the difference.

Every ~Irish person has family in the UK or America, America was built by mostly Irish, There is History there. Hence why Irish mostly still work in those countries if they choose to have a life there. i dont know of many Irish moving to the Uk to live of there benefits work and send back there money to Ireland. The UK and Ireland have very similar living standards and pay structures, so there is no need for a Irish person to live and work there unless he or she wants too. Now on the other hand the Polish etc have no Historical links with Ireland but choose to leave there country come and work over here and send most of there wages back home. With most of them never intendingto stay for more than 3-4 years. In other words they are using our country to benefit themselves. Would our jobs and benefits be not better suited for the long term benefit of the country and the people choosing to live here perm?


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
PRIOR TO THE 90`S YES, BUT WE MOSTLY WENT TO THE UK AND AMERICA WHERE WE HAVE STRONG SOCIAL AND HISTORICAL LINKS.


There is that phrase again. Historical Links ... umm, maybe you don't realise this but those historical links to the US and England were formed by Irish people emmigrating to those countries in the first place. In 5-10 years Poland is going to have "historical links" with Ireland. So I guess you won't have any objection then

The USA was a new country offering anyone from anywhere a new chance in life. America was crying out for people to populate the country. Ireland on the other hand was part of the British Empire and had never existed as a soverign state before that.

And I still don't see how "historical links" pay more taxes or social services.
Historical links mean that people choose to live in those countries for our close ties between each other.

neolxs wrote:

FURTHERMORE SWEDEN DOSENT HAVE CHEAP AIR CARRIERS SUCH AS RYAN AIR OR EASYJET OFFERING CHEAP FLIGHTS FOR 1CENT![/color]

Sweden have MUCH better social services than we do. And they also have planes. I got to hand it to you neolxs that is a new one. Polish immigrants come to Ireland because of Ryanair .... ummm ....

Well back in April 2004, Ryan air announced there new service to Poland. I doubt it was because of all the Irish looking to re-locate. And you keep claiming beter social services in Sweden. Go on then tell me what they are compare them for me!


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
OUR POPULATION IS INCREASING EACH YEAR DUE TO IMIGRATION. THUS OUR OVERALL SPEND IN SOCIAL WELLFARE INCREASES TOO.


Actually it doesn't, since the vast majority of immigrants work legally and don't qualify for benefits, or work illegally and aren't in the system to begin with.

Wrong again. Our Social Welfare sytem is increasing each year. FACT. As previously mentioned above and as people are alway saying, Most EU imigrants do the low skilled jobs the ~Irish dont want to do. So this means No tax return but plenty of state benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
SO SCREW THE COUNTRY AND GOOD LUCK TO ANYONE WHO SCREWS US OVER?

You are the one who wants to get rid of the immigrant workers for some ridiculous lack of "historical links" with Poland (seriously, historical links? wtf?).

That will screw the country neolxs, that will screw the economy. But you don't seem that pushed about that fact. You just want your min-wage job back. F**k the rest of us, f**k the health care service.

I have no problem with controlled imigration. I except that any country needs a certainamount of imigration to help increase growth. But I dont beleive the open door acsess of only 3 countries to the whole of Europe is the sensible way about it. We only need so many low skilled workers. My minimum wage job as you claim is the average wage in ireland. I have a good standard of level of educatio but not everyone is blessed with the perfect job or have trwo incomes. And I would rather use of benefit system to force the unemployed back to work and help vunerable Irish people first that really do need a better standard of living.

If there is an economic turn down in Ireland it will not be because of immigrants. They prop up the economy, not drain it. And if that turn down comes you won't have to worry about the immigrants because they will be long gone, off to find jobs somewhere else. And you and me will probably be following them. But of course only to countries with "HISTORICAL LINKS" to Ireland. Like Tailand, or China


Its simple maths.

200 people come to Ireland. 50 have great paid jobs, pay good money into the irish tax system. 50 other are middle paid jobs and they only take x amount of money from the irish welfare system.

The other 100 need to take advantage of the full Irish Welfare system.

Who is paying for the 150 that need help?

The county can not help the whole of Europe, but if we keep the open door policy for Rumania and Bulgaria we will again be screwed over.

And our Economy is a false one. The only thing that seems to be growing is the Construvtion sector and house prices. The bubble will burst, First time buyers wont and cant be able to buy housed thus crashing the system. Only so many construction jobs can be done. What will the country do then?

We shouldnt have to wait to then, sensible control and management now would give us a better future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
IRELAND OFFER A GENEROUS WELLFARE SYSTEM. I WAS EARNING €32000. PAYING AROUND €150 PER MONTH IN TAX AND PRSI. I HAVE 4 KIDS.

I would tell you to get a better job. I know college graduates earning more than that.

Doing what?

Not everyone in the country is on big money you know, get you head out of the clouds and have a look at the average wage.

You can't blame immigrants because you are stuck at the low end of the pay group, thats not going to help. Get a skill set, and get a job with a career path. There is no excuse with FAS and all the Higher Education plans out there to be stuck in a rut pay wise, with employment at a record low.

Or don't I don't really care. But stop complaining because you are an unskilled worker with 4 kids competting against Polish 20 year olds for a job in Spar.

Well if I choose to work in Spar I may be offended. But the fact is I am a family man who works in Retail Management. Maybe that job is not up to your standards, but maybe you job might not be up to mine!
Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
mY TAKE HOME PAY WAS AROUND €30,000 PER YEAR AFTER TAX AND PRSI.


So you were really paying f**k all in tax. Is it not a bit rich then to be complaining about where your almost non-existance tax money is going? I pay 5 times as much tax as you a year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
€25,000 PER YEAR FOR DOING NOTHING SOUND GOOD TO YOU?

No, it doesn't. It sounds crap to me. As I imagine it does to anyone but the scumbags of Finglas. Its fine for someone like yourself who was in between jobs, but the idea that someone from Poland would come over here to claim that, and still have to live here, is ridiculous.


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
BUT LOOK AT THE STANDARDS, WAITING TIMES, COSTS FOR a&e, THIS IS ALL DUE TO POPULATION GROWTH!


That has very little to due with our population growth. As has been pointed out, the hospitals were in dire straights in the early 90s before any of this happened. The only thing that saved them from complete melt down in the mid-90s was foreign nurses from the EU and Asia.

Are you just picking random things and, for no apparent logical reason, blaming immigrants. Oh my bus was late! Damn immigrants.

As Moe says in the Simpsons "Even when it was the bears I knew it was the immgirants"


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
sO UNEMPLOYMENT IS UP. aLBEIT A SMALL PERCENTAGE, BUT THEN LOOK AT THE WELLFARE CLAIMS


It is as it always goes up at that time of year. 0.1 is nothing. It is like the 4th year college kids who failed their final exams and can't get a job. Less probably.

And what about those wellfare claims. You have completely failed to link them to EU immigrants, and considering they can't claim anything for 2 years I fail to see how you could anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
I PAID NO IRISH TAX, BUT THEN I DIDNT LIVE IN IRELAND THEN.


Yet you think Poland should pay child support for the children of works living and working in Ireland .... ummm


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
BUT I DID SPEND MY WAGES ON THE BRITISH ECONOMY AND NOT SEND ALL MY MONEY BACK HOME TO IRELAND!

LOL .. and what do the Polish people do? The buy their food, petrol, clothes, furniture, rent etc in Poland and have it shipped over to Ireland at the weekend


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolxs
MY POINT IS THAT THERE IS NO FIGURES TO SAY WHAT NATIONALITY CAUSES CRIME. HOWEVER THERE IS A STRONG INDICATOR THAT SHOWS OUR INCREASE IN CRIME WHICH IS 2.7% GOES ALONG WITH OUR INCREASE IN POPULATION 3.3%.

Your mate Paddy in the pub who's sister knows a bloke whos ex-girlfriend's mother used to work for a chip shop beside the local Garda station is not "a strong indicator"
__________________

This post was written for the universal improvement of mankind


Council for Secular Humanism

Evolution. Its real. Get over it

ArthurDent

neolxs wrote:

Well heres your awnser! I asked! Amazing that isnt it! I did know people where I worked within the payroll section and they werent impressed by the way I was treated and were happy to oblige and tell me what i wanted to know!

Happy now? Can you sleep at night?

Serious question - were you sacked, made redundant or was your contract not renewed? If you were made redundant and can prove that someone was taken on to do the same job (for same money or less) then you have a good case to go to the labour court - and you should. If your contract was not renewed and again the job offered to someone else because they were willing to accept eith less than the minimum wage or a wage less than that agreed by your union - you should again go and consult a trade union rep or solicitor - cause you may well have a case.
No-one will deny that employers can and do try and get away with this sort of behaviour - but if that really is the case in your situation why aren't you off trying to highlight them rather than blaming immigrants on some website?

neolxs

gandalf wrote:

It also suggests that more people are claiming something like Child Benefit as well and given there is a baby boom going on that could explain the increased benefit claims.

So you cant or wont except that Imigrants dont bring or claim for there kids?

As Hobbes said check out that Oasis website and educate yourself, however I have the feeling you are cutting and pasting these replies and are not really willing to engage in a debate, just soundbites and mistruths.

I have, and maybe you need to re-look at this yourself. EU law states that it is illegal to treat any other Eu worker different to a Irish worker. The only bit that is true is that you cant come to ireland looking for work and claim Irish benefits. However if you only work 3-4 hours you can claim the full range of Irish benefits. Check the bit I pasted above.

Wrong be a good citizen and familiarise yourself with the subject please rather than waste our time with your illinformed rubbish.

The Same Could be said! But considering there is a awful lot to reply to you have to bear with me a bit!

God I hope you didn't displace a poor Polish worker :rolleyes:

Well I HOpE I did!

neolxs

ArthurDent wrote:

Serious question - were you sacked, made redundant or was your contract not renewed? If you were made redundant and can prove that someone was taken on to do the same job (for same money or less) then you have a good case to go to the labour court - and you should. If your contract was not renewed and again the job offered to someone else because they were willing to accept eith less than the minimum wage or a wage less than that agreed by your union - you should again go and consult a trade union rep or solicitor - cause you may well have a case.
No-one will deny that employers can and do try and get away with this sort of behaviour - but if that really is the case in your situation why aren't you off trying to highlight them rather than blaming immigrants on some website?

I left a good paid Managerial job to take up a post that would give me more time with my kids. i was still working 48 hours per week but considering I was averaging 60 hours per week with a 2 hour drive every day I was happy.

I was there for 3 months when I was told that My employment was being terminated under my probation period. I was told that the position was no longer needed.

However about 1 month later the post was re-filled with a immigrant worker.

I have no legal rights as I hadnt worked for the firm for over a year.

And I was never included as umenployed as the system takes 9 weeks! to process unemployment. So you go onto the supplemantary welfare payment system in the meantime!

Hobbes

neolxs wrote:

Most people now how to claim Child benefit and do.

Based on your earlier posts, you obviously don't. So I recommend you read it.

If you dont claim thats your fault.

I don't get you, your complaining that immigrants know what to claim for? Or that they shouldn't know?

So you cant or wont except that Imigrants dont bring or claim for there kids?

Based on the sites you cited for your figures. 1 in 10 is a child brought into the country. While they can claim (if they remember within the first month of doing so) if you think that they are somehow getting money for nothing then your on crack.

150 a month for a child is pittance (pays the nappies). Factor in that the child has to eat, go to school it means that is money spent in this country and paying wages of people in shops and schools.

Of course you can go on about how they are sending it back to thier child in thier home country (if they are an EU citizen only) but then the person has to be working here and certainly cannot claim FIS like you are trying to make out.

They also can't claim for money in thier home country for the child without it being deducted here.

Your knowledge of what they are allowed is serverly lacking. As I said check out oasis.gov.ie.

neolxs

Originally Posted by neolxs
Most people know how to claim Child benefit and do.


Based on your earlier posts, you obviously don't. So I recommend you read it.

I dont get what you mean? I claim child benefit, and im sure most people in the state do.
Quote:
If you dont claim thats your fault.


I don't get you, your complaining that immigrants know what to claim for? Or that they shouldn't know?
What i am saying is that where is the benefit to the irish state by receiving all these immigrants if they are working low paid jobs, and the irish ste has to fund the basic level of earning by propping up there weekly earnings. I see this as a burdance not a benefit. Yes there are Irish people living of the same benefits, but that are nationals. They didnt come to Ireland to benfit from the state benefits.

Quote:
So you cant or wont except that Imigrants dont bring or claim for there kids?


Based on the sites you cited for your figures. 1 in 10 is a child brought into the country. While they can claim (if they remember within the first month of doing so) if you think that they are somehow getting money for nothing then your on crack.

My argument and point is that there is no benefit to Ireland if a low skilled worker comes here and claims all the benefits available to him. would it not be better to use our benefit fund and help Irish people, and only allow in the skilled workers we really need?

150 a month for a child is pittance (pays the nappies). Factor in that the child has to eat, go to school it means that is money spent in this country and paying wages of people in shops and schools.

150.00 per month isnt bad, Nappies only cost about a 20.00 for a big papmers box that should last you a month! Low paid workers are also entitled to back to school allowance and more than likely will be claiming FIS. And if there kid is under 6 receive a extra Thousand quid per year.
The Child has to eat Yes Agreed, Go to school, Yes Agreed but this is another burden on the Irish Tax Payers, School teachers dont need imigrants to keep there jobs, and as a Retail Manager i can tell you that there is more hassle associated with Non National Shop Lifting than there is with Nationals. So Maybe your right, It gives the Store Detectives something to do!

Of course you can go on about how they are sending it back to thier child in thier home country (if they are an EU citizen only) but then the person has to be working here and certainly cannot claim FIS like you are trying to make out.

They also can't claim for money in thier home country for the child without it being deducted here.

Why cant they? There is no Benefit like this in Poland for example, So whats stopping hem putting there children down on the form and saying they live with them?

Your knowledge of what they are allowed is serverly lacking. As I said check out oasis.gov.ie.

I have, and I suggest you re-check and look a bit more closely!

gandalf

neolxs wrote:

I left a good paid Managerial job to take up a post that would give me more time with my kids. i was still working 48 hours per week but considering I was averaging 60 hours per week with a 2 hour drive every day I was happy.

I was there for 3 months when I was told that My employment was being terminated under my probation period. I was told that the position was no longer needed.

However about 1 month later the post was re-filled with a immigrant worker.

I have no legal rights as I hadnt worked for the firm for over a year.

And I was never included as umenployed as the system takes 9 weeks! to process unemployment. So you go onto the supplemantary welfare payment system in the meantime!

Well based on that its the employer you should be getting shirty with then isn't it. Have you contacted them directly and confronted them. Have you contacted your local TD, have you contacted the media.

No point sitting there and complaining because "they took our jobs" now is there. If you want to sort this out then identify the real problem here and thats employers like that one you have described.

pete

neolxs wrote:

Programme 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
Old Age 261,281 267,760 276,065 287,395 298,169 303,653
Widow, Widowers and One Parent Families 203,091 206,130 209,011 211,385 211,774 212,952
Child Related 7,640 8,067 12,134 12,696 12,186 11,974
Illness, Disability and Caring 172,104 181,569 193,536 206,137 216,292 227,347
Unemployment Supports 149,705 116,069 126,447 137,982 145,339 131,539
Employment Supports 65,120 64,833 56,582 50,920 44,113 40,136
Supplementary Welfare Allowance 21,269 25,094 29,167 32,073 31,217 29,748
Miscellaneous 548 472 433 383 342 303

Total Recipients 880,758 869,994 903,375 938,971 959,432 957,732

Overall increase in wellfare payments since 1999 till 2004 = 76,224

Irish population growth is around 30,000 per year.

30000 x 5 years (1999-2004) = 150,000
Increase in wellfare payments = 76,224

So in other words 1 in 2 imigrants to Ireland claim Irish state benefits. No really much benefit to the state as a whole I would say!"

Oh boy.

A cursory glance at those figures shows that the numbers receiving old age pensions alone increased by 42,372 - I guess that means we have a problem with immigrant OAPs now... either that, or it's a reflection of the naturally changing age profile of the population.

The numbers receiving Carers Allowance / Benefit increased from just under 15,000 a year in 1999 to just over 23,000 in 2004 (source, page 66), or approximately 9,000 extra claimaints. I'm not aware of carers allowance benefit tourists, but you never know.

The figures for Supplementary Welfare Allowance are interesting too, because what you have to realise is that there would be duplication of claimants between social welfare claimants & supplementary welfare claimants (in other words, someone on the scratcher claiming a back to school allowance, a clothing allowance or an exceptional needs payment). What that means is that every one of those ~30,000 SWA recipients are more than likely already counted in the "Unemployment Supports" figures above.

Also, the figures you quoted are only in respect of "basic" SWA payments. (if i remember correctly, basic SWA includes payments made to people awaiting a decision on a social welfare claim & is recoupable from any social welfare payment they subsequently qualify for, but don't quote me on this - it's been a very long time.). Once the numbers claiming other SWA payments are factored in, the actual figures decreased by 5.9% year-on-year 2003 to 2004. (page 101 of the same 2004 report linked to above)

Meanwhile, the numbers claiming Unlemployment Supports (Unemployment Assistance, Unemployment Benefit) decreased, as did the numbers claiming Employment Supports (Family Income Supplement, Back to Work Allowance etc).

ho hum.

Sgt. Sensible

neolxs wrote:

Well heres your awnser! I asked! Amazing that isnt it! I did know people where I worked within the payroll section and they werent impressed by the way I was treated and were happy to oblige and tell me what i wanted to know!

Happy now? Can you sleep at night?

What a pity I don't believe you.

gandalf

Oh god I had to do it. Con you can ban me for this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrbAPLuJ_qc&mode=related&search=

GuanYin

Pete nailed it on the head.

Why do you even entertain these threads.

Someone loses a job, which is unfortunate, and then goes looking for someone to blame. So lets take out the foreigners.

If you removed every non-irish person from employment tomorrow, Ireland would collapse. Transport, healthcare and service would be non existant. Most irish people now see themselves as too good to work the jobs that immigrants are taking.

Which is amusing, because on one hand we have them to make ourselves feel superior about our jobs and on the other they're taking our jobs.

So what you're really saying is, those foreigners are coming over here taking the jobs I want. :rolleyes:

If someone else got your job it is because they were just as good as you for cheaper. So either improve your skillset and CV or ask for less money. But don'tgo blaiming the immigrant population.

oscarBravo

neolxs, your posting style is practically illegible. Figure out how to use quote tags properly, please.

neolxs wrote:

...as a Retail Manager i can tell you that there is more hassle associated with Non National Shop Lifting than there is with Nationals.

I personally don't believe that non-Irish nationals shoplift more than Irish nationals do. Feel free to post a link to valid statistics to prove me wrong.

cuppa

God i love all u office noobs,how the hell would u like some one comming in taking ur work for a third of your wages.food prices up houses up beer up ,,wages down,,survive on that.
I work on the sites ,90% polish,,paid nothing.yet house prices go up,people paid less.
The girls are pretty but.

spanner

Hobbes wrote:

Where is that figure from?

Thats like 91,250 a year (250 extra on a leap year! :eek: ). How many of them leave within a year? That number seems way off even for figures I have seen.

quote from George Leahy on RTE news last week, these are new immgrants.

Sgt. Sensible

cuppa wrote:

God i love all u office noobs,how the hell would u like some one comming in taking ur work for a third of your wages.food prices up houses up beer up ,,wages down,,survive on that.
I work on the sites ,90% polish,,paid nothing.yet house prices go up,people paid less.

Join a union or at least bother to learn your legal rights. Everyone who works on the sites gets the dole on the sly too. Fact.

The girls are pretty but.

Fact.

gibbon75

You guys really think that us Eastern-Europeans (I'm from Hungary) really want to work for less then the nationals???You think when we go for a job interview we say to the employer that we would work for beans,just please hire us??
That's what they pay us! After a few months you realize it,than you are trying to find a better paying job...but because you are not a national so you end up with the same money.
None of my mates from the new EU member countries claim any kind of social wellfare.
And we are all criminals indeed :mad:
I don't think a romanian citizen could claim a child benefit as they are not EU members.(But the germans did the same for ages:father working in Sweden,and claiming all the generous benefits for the family left in the Vaterland...)
Romanians are more than happy if they able to make a €1000 a year...

I'm very sick of these threads,articles on us Eastern-Europeans...
10-15 comments on us every day at work,shops,pubs...

How about when Irish people immigrating to USA,Canada,Australia?
Those folks just doing the same like us:trying to find a better life.
Did you forget your past?How many irish are around the globe?
Why don't you ask the Americans,Canadians,Australians how/what did they country benefit from irish immigrants?

Glenbhoy

I reckon neolx is a journo, probably IOS (now know as The Irish Sunday Mail), this would be great story to start off with (well if he got a few posters to agree with him, so he could quote them - indirectly obviously) and it's exactly the sort of xenophobic bollox that that great bastion of the english media is reknowned for.

Zombrex

For God sake neolxs learn to use the QUOTE tags. You have been on Boards.ie for 2 years, no excuse.

neolxs wrote:

Doing what?

IT for a start. Or business. Or social working. Or any other range of skilled employment.

neolxs wrote:

Not everyone in the country is on big money you know, get you head out of the clouds and have a look at the average wage.

Over 32,000 a year is not big money It isn't even close. None of my friends from college are still on a salary anywhere near as low as that, and yet they still struggle to live in Dublin, let alone buy a house or apartment.

neolxs wrote:

Well if I choose to work in Spar I may be offended. But the fact is I am a family man who works in Retail Management.

Retail Management? What does that actually mean? You are a manager in Dunnes? You shoud be on a lot more than 32,000 then. My brother workered for SuperQuinn for 5 years in college, when he finished college they offered him a full time floor management job of appox 40,000 start off. He was 23 then.

I have no idea where you were working neolxs, but I think you should be thankful you are out of there considering they seem to have convinced you that 32,000 is a good wage for a man supporting 3 children. If you think 32,000 is big money you need to re-evaluate the current job market.

Do you have any skill set. You should really get on to FAS. They can help you increase your skills in "retail management" (not sure what that is, but I imagine business courses would help), or help you start in another area such as IT. I mean most people worry that re-training in something like IT will mean they start again at the bottom of the wage ladder. But 32,000 is pretty close to the bottom of the wage ladder for skilled employies, so it is not like you have a lot to lose.

And stop blaming the immigrants because you are stuck in the low end of the job market with jobs with little or no security. It is your responsibility to make sure you are as appealing to a company as possible. If you are worried about min-wage unskilled labours taking your job then don't work in a min-wage unskilled area. Get a skill and get into company that has at least some job security and career path.

http://www.fas.ie/
http://www.fas.ie/training_courses.html

neolxs wrote:

Maybe that job is not up to your standards, but maybe you job might not be up to mine!

Well it pays a hell of a lot more (as I said, I'm paying 5 times as much tax as you, which wouldn't be hard because you seem to be paying f**k all tax), so I wonder what your "standards" actually are.

ArthurDent

gibbon75 wrote:

You guys really think that us Eastern-Europeans (I'm from Hungary) really want to work for less then the nationals???You think when we go for a job interview we say to the employer that we would work for beans,just please hire us??
That's what they pay us! After a few months you realize it,than you are trying to find a better paying job...but because you are not a national so you end up with the same money.
None of my mates from the new EU member countries claim any kind of social wellfare.
And we are all criminals indeed :mad:
I don't think a romanian citizen could claim a child benefit as they are not EU members.(But the germans did the same for ages:father working in Sweden,and claiming all the generous benefits for the family left in the Vaterland...)
Romanians are more than happy if they able to make a €1000 a year...

I'm very sick of these threads,articles on us Eastern-Europeans...
10-15 comments on us every day at work,shops,pubs...

How about when Irish people immigrating to USA,Canada,Australia?
Those folks just doing the same like us:trying to find a better life.
Did you forget your past?How many irish are around the globe?
Why don't you ask the Americans,Canadians,Australians how/what did they country benefit from irish immigrants?

Eh think you should re-read this thread a little more closely, I think you'll find the majority of posters are actually disagreeing with the OP.

Raekwon

gibbon75 wrote:

Why don't you ask the Americans,Canadians,Australians how/what did they country benefit from irish immigrants?

That's alittle unfair to single out the Irish like that, eastern europeans immigrated just as much as the Irish to places like America and Canada, plus there was hardly an economic boom in Australia in the 1850's when some Irish pioneers arrived there.

By the way, as you are from Hungary, how do you feel about the possibility of Turkey joining the EU in 2015?

neolxs

Well alls I can say to you guys outside of Dublin, The Vast majority of people in the west of Ireland are sick of immigrants, Dont want them and wish they would just *uck off!

You may attack me for my views, but that is the way most people feel in my part of the country anyway.

I am fed up with seeing Foreign Cars on our roads, No TAX, NO Insurance and NO VRT. And I dont meant the Tourists!


I do hope we let Hungary and Romaina join, and I hope Dublin is flooded with them. And They all take your office jobs for less money! And You all end not being able to pay your mortgages. And Then only then you may all open your eyes.

If Imigration of low skilled workers from Eastern Europe was and is a good thing, Why is it that only 3 EU Countries took it up? Why didnt Germany? France? Spain? Italy? Holland? Belgium? and so on.

rlogue

I tell you what, if you really hate how Ireland is nowadays, why not **** off out of here yourself and find somewhere else??