Have EU Imigrants Benefited The Irish Republic?

Zombrex

neolxs wrote:

Well alls I can say to you guys outside of Dublin, The Vast majority of people in the west of Ireland are sick of immigrants, Dont want them and wish they would just *uck off!

The vast vast majority of people in the west of Ireland love immigrants, they love them to bits, and are more than happy to let even more into the country.

neolxs wrote:

I am fed up with seeing Foreign Cars on our roads, No TAX, NO Insurance and NO VRT. And I dont meant the Tourists!

I doubt you have seen more than 3 of those cars in your entire life neolxs, so calm down with the dramatics.

In fact what do you do that you are constantly watching cars all day? Maybe that was why you were fired from your "retail management" job.

bonkey

Wicknight wrote:

In fact what do you do that you are constantly watching cars all day?

More importantly....how did he figure out they weren't tourists?

Kaylee

Hi

Sorry had to post reply here - I think some people are a bit too 'right on' for their own good. I live next door to a house rented out by some Lativan lads - nice enough lads, most of them don't spead a lot of english but NONE of them have tax or insurance on their cars. Not even out-of-date stickers for show, just blank windscreens.

I don't know where you live Wicknight and some others but you don't seem to be in touch with reality on this issue.

Regards

Kaylee

Sorry!

Double Post

Alun

Kaylee wrote:

Sorry had to post reply here - I think some people are a bit too 'right on' for their own good. I live next door to a house rented out by some Lativan lads - nice enough lads, most of them don't spead a lot of english but NONE of them have tax or insurance on their cars. Not even out-of-date stickers for show, just blank windscreens.

How long have they been here? If it's less than 12 months then they're not obliged to register their cars here, and if the cars are still Latvian registered, then it's not going to be possible for them to get Irish tax and insurance anyway. That doesn't necessarily mean they haven't paid tax and have valid insurance in their home country though ... not every country insists on festooning their cars windscreens with little bits of round paper like we do here.

That's not to say that some people don't play a bit loose with the rules, but I can assure you from having lived abroad working with Irish and UK contractors, that we're not angels in that regard either.

BTW I'm not quite sure what's meant by the last condition quoted below, i.e. the one about the "task of definite duration". Does it mean that if the contract is for 6 months, say, that you have to register the car after 6 months if you intend to stay after that (my guess), or does it mean that if you're here on a 2 year contract, you're OK for 2 years? (unlikely)

Any imported vehicle which is owned by or registered in the name of a non-resident person is not required to be registered in Ireland subject to the following conditions :

* The vehicle must have been acquired with all the appropriate taxes paid and these must not have been exempted or refunded in any way. The standard registration plates in use in the domestic market of a country are normally accepted as evidence of this.
* The vehicle may not in any circumstances be driven by a State resident.
* The vehicle may not be disposed of or hired out in the State or lent to a State resident.
* The period of time that the vehicle is in the State does not exceed 12 months.
* The 12 months time limit will not apply where a person is on a task of definite duration in the State.

3. What is meant by "State resident" and "non-resident" ?

A "State resident" is a person whose normal residence is in the Republic of Ireland and a "non-resident" is anyone whose normal residence is outside this State. "Normal residence" means the place where a person usually lives (for at least 185 days each year) because of personal or occupational ties.

If a person's occupational ties are in a different country from his/her personal ties, then the country of personal ties is taken as the normal residence provided the person returns there regularly.

Glenbhoy

Alun, from looking at your post, i would conclude that anyone who has been here for 6 months is resident, thus they have to re-register the car and pay VRT. In my opinion this legislation is rarely if ever complied with, so i agree with neolx on that point. (the wording however is unclear and definitely a grey area)

Kaylee

O right, didn't know that, thanks Alun! I don't know where that would leave you if you were in involved in an accident with one of them though.

In fairness, all these guys next door have jobs - some in security (coming in as we are going out to work), one guy works in a garage and they are all (I'd say) in their early 20's, there is one girl who lives there and is a waitress in a local restaurant.

As regards them benefitting the Irish Republic - I would have to ask benefit in what way? Economically? Culturally? Socially?

I certainly don't see them down the local boozer (probably wouldn't blame them!). They are relatively young and behave as most young guys would - working, drinking, having girlfriends, messing with their cars (sorry I know I may be insulting a lot of young guys here!). I think maybe we are expecting too much from them? What do you want them to do?

bonkey

Kaylee wrote:

NONE of them have tax or insurance on their cars. Not even out-of-date stickers for show, just blank windscreens.

And presumably you either find this acceptable or have reported them to the police as you believe it to be illegal???

I mean...you're not suggesting that we Irish should be condoning illegal behaviour from these blow-ins, are you? That's never gonna solve anything.

I don't know where you live Wicknight and some others but you don't seem to be in touch with reality on this issue.

Reality?

The reality is that you've established there is anecdotally at least one car in the country which doesn't appear to have tax and insurance, that you apparently don't care enough about this to complain to the police about it, but do care enough to criticise others for not accepting its a commonplace occurrnece based on hearsay and isolated anecdotes.

bonkey

Kaylee wrote:

I don't know where that would leave you if you were in involved in an accident with one of them though.

Well, assuming you mean an accident one of them caused, it would leave them liable, and you currently now knowing whether or not they have insurance to cover their liability, assuming they don't, and apparently not doing anything about this.

Hobbes

Kaylee wrote:

but NONE of them have tax or insurance on their cars. Not even out-of-date stickers for show, just blank windscreens.

So you have reported it then to the police? Revenue commisioners? After all it does appear they are breaking the law. The less they get away with it the less inclined people will be to do in future?

Or is it just easier to complain on a webboard? Although the Irish Culture is very heavy into whining rather then reporting (imho relates back to the whole super-rat=traitor mentality).

As for VRT, Revenue commisioners do chase this up with a vengence once they have the details. A lot of people in work (who come from North) got caught that way.

Kaylee

You're Right Bonkey, I did consider reporting it but I felt (probably misguidedly) bad as they are young lads working quite hard - and this is remiss on my part.

But are you seriously telling me that you think that the 3/4 cars next door to me are the only cars in the country owned by non-nationals that are untaxed and uninsured?

Alun

Glenbhoy wrote:

Alun, from looking at your post, i would conclude that anyone who has been here for 6 months is resident, thus they have to re-register the car and pay VRT.

Take a look at the last highlighted phrase. If they're 'personal ties' are still in Latvia, and they pop over there every now and then then they're considered non-resident for these purposes.

Alun

Hobbes wrote:

As for VRT, Revenue commisioners do chase this up with a vengence once they have the details. A lot of people in work (who come from North) got caught that way.

Exactly, there seem to be some serious double-standards being applied here.

Look over in the Motors forum, where you'll see any number of posts outlining the next "wizard wheeze' to avoid VRT by claiming you 'have an address' at your aunty's third cousin's dog's place up North, or that you (really, honestly) work for your 'uncle' just over the border and your Subaru Imprezza WRX is a 'company car', not to mention lying to the Gardai about having your car off the road when it isn't, driving unaccompanied when on a provisional, not displaying L-plates etc., etc., etc.

Pot, kettle, black.

bonkey

Kaylee wrote:

You're Right Bonkey, I did consider reporting it but I felt (probably misguidedly) bad as they are young lads working quite hard - and this is remiss on my part.

All I'm saying is that if you have a problem with it, report it.

You seem to be suggesting that its not on, but are doing nothing about it. This then begs the question...who is causing the problem here. The foreigners for not obeying our rules? You, for knowing they aren't but letting it slide? Or the police, for not being everywhere and catching everythign with no help from anyone?

I'd suggest its a mix of all three, and from the perspective of the concerned citizen, only one of the three is easy for them to do something about, but the other two are what they generally complain about instead.

I mean...seriously...if the cops don't have the presence to notice this type of stuff, and the neighbours turn a blind eye to it, why shouldn't we expect this type of behaviour? And - more importantly - what reason do we have to believe its only foreigners?

But are you seriously telling me that you think that the 3/4 cars next door to me are the only cars in the country owned by non-nationals that are untaxed and uninsured?

No,. I'm suggesting you chastised Wicknight and others for apparently generalising based on what they see where they live....and then you generalised based on what you see where you live.

Either you're both correct to generalise, or neither of you are.

lolli

My boyfriend came to Ireland 4 years ago to try to get a better life for himself. The average wage in his country in 400 euro a month. He answered an advertisement from an irish company which had advertised in his country.

He has always been a hard worker and has never claimed one cent in benefits, his friends that are over here are the same. They all are extremely hard workers and all they are interested in is trying to get a better life for themselves and their families. Its just like we did years we all went over to England and Usa to try find better lives. My dad went to England when there were no jobs here so that he could give his children a better life.

I work in a job where I deal with both Irish & Foreign people every day. I find that the foreign people are the ones that always have the documentation correct, they are polite and do not mind returning if I need to ask them for another document. I ask an Irish person for a birth cert and they flip out.

One of my ex boyfriends didnt bother working. Why should he when he can live at home with Mammy, she'll pay the bills, do his washing & cooking and he can claim the dole.

I am in touch with people everyday who are claiming benefits and the majority of them are Irish people who could not be bothered working. Why would they when they can get everything for free. You get rent allowance, you can go to the community welfare officer if you need a buggy etc. Some foreign people are claiming benefits but its nothing in comparrison to the irish.

The foreign people in this country are working in min wage jobs because some Irish people think that they are too good to work for 7.65 an hour so its the foreign people who are taking up these jobs.

gibbon75

Raekwon wrote:

That's alittle unfair to single out the Irish like that, eastern europeans immigrated just as much as the Irish to places like America and Canada, plus there was hardly an economic boom in Australia in the 1850's when some Irish pioneers arrived there.

By the way, as you are from Hungary, how do you feel about the possibility of Turkey joining the EU in 2015?

I didn't single 'em out,just tried to point out there are lots of similarities in our past.
About Turkey's joining:I don't mind at all.But Romania will join before them I guess.

gibbon75

ArthurDent wrote:

Eh think you should re-read this thread a little more closely, I think you'll find the majority of posters are actually disagreeing with the OP.

I supposed to adress it the OP and for those who agreed with his opinion...my bad.

gibbon75

neolxs wrote:

I do hope we let Hungary and Romaina join

You "let" Hungary join a good while ago

Glenbhoy

Alun wrote:

Take a look at the last highlighted phrase. If they're 'personal ties' are still in Latvia, and they pop over there every now and then then they're considered non-resident for these purposes.

I would reckon that means weekly, bi-weekly etc. I would imagine that as a rule of thumb, if someone pays their tax in ireland they are resident in ireland, I think that caveat in the legislation is for eg. a uk resident who works here during the week on a secondment for a fixed period and travels home at weekends. That person would be entitled to pay tax in uk, but spends more than 185 days here p.a, of course I could be wrong (and most likely am) as I'm thinking this through as a I type.
And yes, the revenue do chase nordies big time re vrt, i know several persons who have had their cars impounded, including 1 guy who genuinely went home every weekend.

Sgt. Sensible

neolxs wrote:

Well alls I can say to you guys outside of Dublin, The Vast majority of people in the west of Ireland are sick of immigrants, Dont want them and wish they would just *uck off!

You may attack me for my views, but that is the way most people feel in my part of the country anyway.
.

If you were only in a job for 3 months how did you get to know people in the payroll section well enough to get them to divulge confidential info about other workers? Most businesses over a certain size will have their payroll section based at company HQ anyway, so the chances of an employee in some branch knowing anyone there in such a short time are extremely unlikely.

You're only fooling yourself.

Glenbhoy

lolli wrote:

I work in a job where I deal with both Irish & Foreign people every day. I find that the foreign people are the ones that always have the documentation correct, they are polite and do not mind returning if I need to ask them for another document. I ask an Irish person for a birth cert and they flip out.

Nothing like a good auld sweeping generalisation eh lolli? You are as bad as the OP!!

lolli wrote:

One of my ex boyfriends didnt bother working. Why should he when he can live at home with Mammy, she'll pay the bills, do his washing & cooking and he can claim the dole.

He sounds like quite a catch, I can see why you went out with him - but then to leave him for a foreigner - madness!!

Zombrex

bonkey wrote:

More importantly....how did he figure out they weren't tourists?

Well there are no tourists in Galway bonkey, everyone knows that

Zombrex

Kaylee wrote:

But are you seriously telling me that you think that the 3/4 cars next door to me are the only cars in the country owned by non-nationals that are untaxed and uninsured?

But the point is you have no idea. The 20 so foreign families that live in my estate (it is for some reason popular with Asian and Middle Eastern families, no idea why) ALL have tax and insurrance on their cars (or at least I've never see a car without in in the estate).

Now I could draw from that that every non-national pays up. That would conflict with your evidence that at least one doesn't.

The point is you cannot draw any conclusions from such silly hearsay. There are thousands of non-nationals in Ireland. I have absolutely no idea how many pay insurrance, neither do you and neither does neolxs

What someone can do is draw a negative stereotype about non-nationals if one so feels like it, which appears to be what neolxs is doing. He has a negative opinion towards non-nationals so he is going to assume that a lot of them are breaking the law. In reality has actually has no idea if, percentage wise, more or less non-nationals are driving uninsured cars than nationals.

It is this rumour and suspicion attitute that breeds the ridiculous rumours about foreigners that people still clearly believe, that they are all criminals yet the government gives them free cars and hair cuts.

neolxs

I have a friend who is a Garda. He told me once that most foreign nationals dont have insurance and dont obey the speed limits. Also if they are brought to court they plead they dont understand English and have to have a translator for them. Extra cost to the Garda. As a result of huge costs he told me they ( Gardai) were told to avoid dealing with non nationals except when absolutely necessary. in other words if they dont cause an accident , leave them alone. I agree with those comments about the LIT and LT cars with black windows, but maybe they can see out ok. To be honest I am more concerned about the driving (and I am not being racist here) of other immigrant nationalities. Last week on a roundabout in Dundalk a lady driver ( African) cut a roundabout, on the front passenger seat two small kids were playing, no seat belts. She sailed through the roundabout without looking or stopping. If it was a minor roundabout it would be bad enough but it was on the main Dublin/Belfast road at Harvey Normans. Hardly the least busy roundabout in the country. I was stopped at the time waiting for to enter the roundabout when this car approached on the inside and went straight through to 2nd exit. Not even a basic understanding of the rules of the road. I had a passenger and she couldn't believe it either.

www.askaboutmoney.com

GuanYin

What I really find amusing is how much anecdotal evidence comes into play here.

I worked in epidemiology for a while and believe me, you would be surprised how much your anecdotal reporting increases in light of a media story (bird flu, sars etc). If you tell people there is a ghost haunting a street, give it a few weeks and you'll start getting reports from people that see a ghost.

Whats my point? Well it is funny, you bring up non-nationals doing all these bad things and you get a handful of people telling you they see non national breaking the law everywhere.

The truth is probably that there are no more non-nationals doing these things than there are nationals. But you don't see too many sensationalist articles on the amount of Irish people who are not paying car tax and insurance.

Personally, I've been in two accidents (neither my fault) and one of them didn't have insurance. So in my experience, 50% of Irish people don't have car insurance :rolleyes:

bonkey

neolxs wrote:

www.askaboutmoney.com
...
I have a friend who is a Garda.

Link to a site, which references the opinion of a friend of the author who happens to be a garda.

Well, colour me convinced. I haven't seen definitive proof like that since a pair of nuclear explosions levelled the twin towers.

jc

GuanYin

bonkey wrote:

Well, colour me convinced. I haven't seen definitive proof like that since a pair of nuclear explosions levelled the twin towers.

jc

I think you will find it was the mothman.

Kaylee

bonkey wrote:

I mean...seriously...if the cops don't have the presence to notice this type of stuff, and the neighbours turn a blind eye to it, why shouldn't we expect this type of behaviour? And - more importantly - what reason do we have to believe its only foreigners?

It is true that irish nationals are guilty of the types of scams, illegal activity, sponging off the state and anti-social behaviour that non nationals are being blamed for. Of course it is very easy to blame the 'blow-in'.

Maybe it is for this reason though that immigration should be curbed/capped/restricted while we try to sort out the problems we've created for ourselves due in part to individualism, general apathy and a focus on furious economic development at the expense quality of life issues.

oscarBravo

neolxs wrote:

Well alls I can say to you guys outside of Dublin, The Vast majority of people in the west of Ireland are sick of immigrants, Dont want them and wish they would just *uck off!

Unless you can post definitive evidence of the plebiscite that was conducted to arrive at this conclusion, it's quite simply untrue for the purposes of this board. For what it's worth, my personal anecdotal experience directly contradicts your assertion, but I refuse to claim that the vast majority of the people in the West (or of my parish, for that matter) feel a particular way.

neolxs wrote:

You may attack me for my views, but that is the way most people feel in my part of the country anyway.

...and again. Produce evidence for this sort of assertion, or stop making them.

oscarBravo

rlogue wrote:

I tell you what, if you really hate how Ireland is nowadays, why not **** off out of here yourself and find somewhere else??

Not a helpful contribution, rlogue. Don't get personal again, thanks.