Have EU Imigrants Benefited The Irish Republic?

oscarBravo

Glenbhoy wrote:

You are as bad as the OP!!

More getting personal.

This is a topic that is obviously exercising people, but everybody take note: unless people start calming down and discussing the topic rationally, people are going to get banned.

freddyfreeload

Just playing the anecdotal evidence card one more time...

I remember when I was living in London, there were six immigrant lads crammed in the two bed terrace next door. The three cars they had were never taxed and they used to park them all over the street, taking up other house's spaces. They were always coming back late, making a noise, causing trouble with the other neighbours and sometimes fighting out in the street after parties. It was rumoured that one of them had terrorist links. Two of them were claiming dole both in the UK and their native country. They'd fly home on their signing day there, then straight back again to work illegally and claim dole in London. Oh, one last thing, I almost forgot... all six were Irish.

Some questions to the anti-immigrants among us...

• Have you ever worked alongside English, American or Australian colleagues without ever once questioning that they've taken a job an Irish person could be doing?
  
  
• How many times have you gone looking at the windscreens of cars you know belong to Irish people, looking for missing tax and insurance details?
  
  
• How often have you read a newspaper article about a rape, or a murder or a theft and said to yourself, "these young white Irish males are causing 99% of crime, we really should deport them!"

I think some posters need to wake up to their own xenophobia instead of projecting their internalised negative feelings onto what has to be the most vulnerable segment of society.

ff

neolxs

After years of urging more cheap foreign labour, certain segments of big business in Britain (not 'British big business'; there is no such thing) are getting worried about a voter revolt against their friends in power, getting worried about the social mess they may have to pay to clean up, and starting to question whether an economy based on cheap foreign labour is really a good business proposition in the long run. So perhaps it is no surprise to see the new leader of the employers organization the CBI come out with a statement recommending an end to Labour’s open door immigration policy.

Richard Lambert the Director General last week told business leaders that the country will struggle to cope with the influx of up to 600,000 workers expected from Romania and Bulgaria when the two countries join the EU next year.

He said it would be a big mistake for Britain to 'thrown open our doors to these new member states immediately.'

Pause recommended

There should be 'a pause', rather than letting an unlimited number of workers and their families come to Britain to seek well-paid jobs. Mr Lambert said the wave of immigration has 'potential implications for the social fabric of this country', such as education, housing and 'the way we live.'

He said: 'We would risk having an unskilled workforce and there are clear links between skills, unemployment, health and crime.'

The remarks come as domestic unemployment has soared to its highest level for more than six years fuelled by the influx of Eastern European immigrants. According to the Office for National Statistics there are nearly 1.7 million unemployed. Over the last year, this has soared by a staggering 242,000, the biggest annual increase for more than a decade.

However there is still a significant number of corporate giants who argue that the influx of cheap Eastern European workers is welcome.

Captains of industry including the chairmen of BP, Sainsbury's and Boots are backing a campaign Business for New Europe to extend the open-door policy to all comers from the two new planned EU countries.

neolxs

freddyfreeload wrote:

Just playing the anecdotal evidence card one more time...

I remember when I was living in London, there were six immigrant lads crammed in the two bed terrace next door. The three cars they had were never taxed and they used to park them all over the street, taking up other house's spaces. They were always coming back late, making a noise, causing trouble with the other neighbours and sometimes fighting out in the street after parties. It was rumoured that one of them had terrorist links. Two of them were claiming dole both in the UK and their native country. They'd fly home on their signing day there, then straight back again to work illegally and claim dole in London. Oh, one last thing, I almost forgot... all six were Irish.

So they should be punished under British Law!

If in Ireland we dont Tax our cars, Pay Insurance or get a NCT we get PUNISHED! But all the foreign imigrant cars on our roads dont get Punished.

Some questions to the anti-immigrants among us...

• Have you ever worked alongside English, American or Australian colleagues without ever once questioning that they've taken a job an Irish person could be doing?

But in return Thousands of Irish Go to work in those countries also! We all speak the same language and all are good modern western countries. Now if Australia had a low skilled, low paid economy and they arrived here in there Thousands every year then Yes I would have a problem. But Seeing as a few come over here and a few of us go over there we end up with a fair balanced Migration, Imigration stabe policy. But when Thousands and it really is Thousands of low skilled low paid EU workers come over here its Not well balanced!

[*]How many times have you gone looking at the windscreens of cars you know belong to Irish people, looking for missing tax and insurance details?

As mentioned we get Punished. If you dont take out your Road tax, you have to go to the Gardai and get a form stamped that you have been of the road for so long. And you could hardly do this on and off!

[*]How often have you read a newspaper article about a rape, or a murder or a theft and said to yourself, "these young white Irish males are causing 99% of crime, we really should deport them!"

Yes True, Crime is commited by Irish people, That is why we have a police force set up to deal with this. But our Police force is not SET UP DO DEAL WITH tHOUSANDS of Foreign Imigrants pouring into the country speaking foreign languages and who can quite easily dissapear over another border with ease once the crime has been commited!

Its easier for a Garda to chase a Irish car without Tax, Insurance etc than it is to chase a Polish car that claims to speak "No English " When they get stopped!

I think some posters need to wake up to their own xenophobia instead of projecting their internalised negative feelings onto what has to be the most vulnerable segment of society.

ff

I really think you need to wake UP!

oscarBravo

neolxs wrote:

After years of urging more cheap foreign labour, certain segments of big business in Britain (not 'British big business'; there is no such thing) are getting worried about a voter revolt against their friends in power, getting worried about the social mess they may have to pay to clean up, and starting to question whether an economy based on cheap foreign labour is really a good business proposition in the long run.

I strongly suspect this entire post is an unattributed copy-and-paste from somewhere else, with no input from you whatsoever. If so, edit it to add attribution and your own comments (per the forum charter), and do so promptly, please. If you have an issue with this, PM me.

oscarBravo

Again with the inability to quote properly.

neolxs wrote:

But all the foreign imigrant cars on our roads dont get Punished.

Prove it. Or else prove that all Irish cars on the road (that transgress the law) do get punished.

Kaylee

freddyfreeload wrote:

I think some posters need to wake up to their own xenophobia instead of projecting their internalised negative feelings onto what has to be the most vulnerable segment of society.

ff

I think this arguement has been hijacked. As usual those who are calmly asking for a reappraisal of society in general (including immigration issues) get accused of being xenophobes (just like the shouts of anti-semitist in different contexts).

There are many people who welcome cultural diversity but would still be confused as to exactly who or what immigration is supposed to benefit. I'm also thinking here of immigrants who are getting screwed over. I mean is there a plan? or are we just winging it?

Strokesfan

Kaylee wrote:

I think this arguement has been hijacked. As usual those who are calmly asking for a reappraisal of society in general (including immigration issues) get accused of being xenophobes (just like the shouts of anti-semitist in different contexts).

There are many people who welcome cultural diversity but would still be confused as to exactly who or what immigration is supposed to benefit. I'm also thinking here of immigrants who are getting screwed over. I mean is there a plan? or are we just winging it?

I think so too, I'm not a xenophobe and I treat anyone I meet or work with, with respect but I do think the government is winging it.

gurramok

There should be an immigrant test here similar to the one Australia is going to do.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5373074.stm

Integration of immigrants i support, not a boiling pot of cultures vying for a nations resources which has rarely worked anywhere imho.

neolxs

I strongly suspect this entire post is an unattributed copy-and-paste from somewhere else, with no input from you whatsoever. If so, edit it to add attribution and your own comments (per the forum charter), and do so promptly, please. If you have an issue with this, PM me.

So forget the debate, Dont awnser the points and accuse me of breaking the rules!

Forget the personnel attacks and argue the case!

Oh By the Way did I mention KERRY?! GAA CHAMPIONS AGAIN!

oscarBravo

neolxs wrote:

So forget the debate, Dont awnser the points and accuse me of breaking the rules!

I'm sorry, but what part of "If you have an issue with this, PM me" was too complicated for you to understand?

neolxs wrote:

Forget the personnel attacks and argue the case!

Ironic, in light of:

neolxs wrote:

Oh By the Way did I mention KERRY?! GAA CHAMPIONS AGAIN!

Anyway.

Was that post, or was it not, a copy-and-paste from somewhere else?

neolxs

On a serious point is there anyway we van get a poll on here. or anyone know any links to a poll where we can vote so that we may really see what peoples true oppinions are by voting on the single question?

DO IMIGRANTS BENEFIT THE IRISH REPUBLIC?


And secondly to those of you who say YES they do, I put to you HOW?

oscarBravo

neolxs wrote:

On a serious point is there anyway we van get a poll on here.

No.

bonkey

Kaylee wrote:

Maybe it is for this reason though that immigration should be curbed/capped/restricted while we try to sort out the problems we've created for ourselves due in part to individualism, general apathy and a focus on furious economic development at the expense quality of life issues.

Great idea. Lets make it illegal for people to have kids too, cause that'd only be adding more people to the problem too.

Come on. First you have a go at the foreigners hinting that they're a significant contributor to the problem. Now you admit you can't show that, and say we should keep them out to stop them adding an unknown quantity to the problem.

Or we could admit that if we want to fix the problem, what we need to do is...surprisingly...tackle the problem as opposed to demonising some minority for unrelated reasons in the name of "damage control".

Its always the same. If our asylum laws aren't given the resources to work and aren't being enforced, people suggested the solution was to have new laws that weren't resourced and enforced. Now its car tax, insurance, and even licensing. Next week, the hospitals will possibly be noticed again and the foreigners blamed for that too.

Spot a common thread? We take something tahts always been a problem, that we've never properly tackled, and blame the foreigners or make stricter controls on them a prerequisite to the problem.

I'm surprised that when Dublin was being dug up to put in the Luas, we didn't have people saying we need less foreigners now that we've fewer roads in the city causing greater congestion. IF we had fewer foreigners, we'd have fewer cars. So obviously the first thing to do to control traffic congestion is to blame foreigners too!!!! Lets make it illegal for them to drive. No! Wait! Thats discrimination. Lets just stop them coming here in the first place, then we can deal with our traffic problems!!!! Seriously....its the same logic as you've just used, applied to a different problem.

So do you believe we need to control imigration to tackle our traffic problems?

neolxs

AGAIN ILL ASK THE QUESTION

HOW ARE IMIGRANTS BENEFITING THE COUNTRY?


AND NO I DIDNT COPY AND PASTE. I DID USE A ARTICE FOR REFERENCE. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW? CAN YOU SLEEP BETTER KNOWING THAT i HAVENT BROKEN THE RULES? CAN YOU NOW COMMENT ON WHAT WAS SAID BY THE CBI?

neolxs

bonkey wrote:

Great idea. Lets make it illegal for people to have kids too, cause that'd only be adding more people to the problem too.

Come on. First you have a go at the foreigners hinting that they're a significant contributor to the problem. Now you admit you can't show that, and say we should keep them out to stop them adding an unknown quantity to the problem.

Well If a massive increase in population dosent cause problems without resources being put into place to deal with the increase, What else are you suggesting causes it?

Or we could admit that if we want to fix the problem, what we need to do is...surprisingly...tackle the problem as opposed to demonising some minority for unrelated reasons in the name of "damage control".

Only 3 countries in the EU allowed these countries in, WHY if not to limit damage control. America has had the same policy for years. WHY to limit the influx of low skilled workers.

Its always the same. If our asylum laws aren't given the resources to work and aren't being enforced, people suggested the solution was to have new laws that weren't resourced and enforced. Now its car tax, insurance, and even licensing. Next week, the hospitals will possibly be noticed again and the foreigners blamed for that too.

Your obviously not reading threads, I already mentioned this. If a Hospital was built to deal with 200,000 patients per year and suddenlly it ends up with a extra 60,000 per year whats going to happen? Increased waiting times? Increased operation waiting lists? Fewer beds on wards? Increases on the A&E charges to be seen? And dont go off on my figures, the fact is in the last 5-6 years Ireland has seen a massive influx of immigration without any resources being re-directed to build more and more hospitals. And someone else made the point that we have more Doctors and Nurses now from imigrants. Of Course we have, we need them to try and cope with the extra demand!

Spot a common thread? We take something tahts always been a problem, that we've never properly tackled, and blame the foreigners or make stricter controls on them a prerequisite to the problem.

I'm surprised that when Dublin was being dug up to put in the Luas, we didn't have people saying we need less foreigners now that we've fewer roads in the city causing greater congestion. IF we had fewer foreigners, we'd have fewer cars. So obviously the first thing to do to control traffic congestion is to blame foreigners too!!!! Lets make it illegal for them to drive. No! Wait! Thats discrimination. Lets just stop them coming here in the first place, then we can deal with our traffic problems!!!! Seriously....its the same logic as you've just used, applied to a different problem.

So do you believe we need to control imigration to tackle our traffic problems?

We sahould have a limited amount of imigration that the country requires. Not a overflowing of unskilled workers who are happy and quite prepared to work below the minimum wage and price Irish people out of jobs.

Moneypoint was a good example. THe ESB tendered out the contract, Irish firms lost out as they obeyed the law and paid the correct wages to it workers, a foreign company won who were found out to be paying there workers well below the minimum wage. So no wonder the tender was cheaper than the Irish companys!

So who lost out. Irish Electricians, Hardly unskilled low paid workers now are they!

So again as to the question I asked, How are Imigrants benefiting the Irish Republic?

bonkey

Kaylee wrote:

I think this arguement has been hijacked. As usual those who are calmly asking for a reappraisal of society in general (including immigration issues) get accused of being xenophobes (just like the shouts of anti-semitist in different contexts).

I'm looking at the thread topic, and I dunno about you, but I'm not sure where the "reappraisaal of society in general" fits into it, when the question is about whether or not EU immigrants have benefited us.

Its, at best, asking for a reappraisal of how EU immigrants have impacted Irish society.

It most certainly isn't asking me about whether or not I think Irish people feed their kids too much Mc Donalds, or let them play too much playstation.

It has little if anything to do with whehter or not Irish traditions and traditional values are being eroded by our mass importing of anglophile television productions.

I'm positive that our position on asylum seekers, traditional militaristic neutrality, or the North of Ireland has nothign to do with it.

So you'll forgive me if I don't quite believe your claim that this thread has been hijacked from a general discussion reappraising Irish society, cause that would include such issues.

There are many people who welcome cultural diversity but would still be confused as to exactly who or what immigration is supposed to benefit.

Indeed. And such people such ask the questions they want answered calmly and rationally, listen to the answers, and take notes when they're shown why gross generalisations about foreigners, unsupported by facts, and are contrary to any notion of welcoming cultural diversity.

When those gross generalisations cannot be shown to be inapplicable to other groups in society (foreign or indigenous in origin), or understood as either short-term perturbances in a system, or indeed symptoms of a greater problem in a failed system, I would expect such people to acknowledge the error of their ways and realise that they need to reapproach the issue in terms other than "those EU immigrants".

I'm also thinking here of immigrants who are getting screwed over.

The ones who are allegedly getting paid below minimum wage, for example? Lets assume they exist in significant numbers for a second and look at just that.

The problem here is that there are employers willing to break the law and pay below the legal minimum. There are workers of indeterminate nationality (Irish or otherwise) who are willing to work for this. There are others who are willing to not report it to the police.

The problem, therefore, is primarily the employers and a system which cannot and does not check and enforce its laws sufficiently. It doesn't matter what anyone is willing to work for if the employers and the law collude to prevent them from being paid so little.

A symptom is arguably that because of economic background, foreigners are perhaps more likely to accept this as being better than their alternatives.

And what happens? People come along telling us we need to tackle the symptoms, not the underlying problem, and the symptom they pick first is almost always related to the immigrants or other foreigners. And we're supposed to accept that this is a reasonable, well-thought-out, position from someone "favouring cultural diversity" (i.e. someone who can't be therefore accused of racism).

Well thats fine. I can accept that people have an inability to analyse problems and find the right approach to tackling it. What I can't accept is that when they have it explained to them how they're looking at it wrongly, so many of these people, allegedly with nothing against foreigners, still look for another angle to blame the foreigners and yet expect me to believe that its not about the foreigners.

Does Ireland need to consider its long-term strategy with respect to immigration? Absolutely. No question. It needs to be openly discussed. However, before we can do that, we have to be able to determine what is reasonable to discuss within that framework, what the questions really are, and what long-term issues need to be considered.

Blaming Joe Q Poland for every woe in your life isn't part of that discussion, and indeed anyone with such attitudes should have no voice in said discussion.

Thats why, for me, threads like this one were not hijacked away from a reasonable discussion.

They started as an attack on foreigners which someone subsequently wants to have accepted as a reasonable aspect of any discussion about long-term strategy with respect to immigration, or - as you claim - society in general.

I, for one, don't buy that.

oscarBravo

neolxs wrote:

AND NO I DIDNT COPY AND PASTE. I DID USE A ARTICE FOR REFERENCE. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW? CAN YOU SLEEP BETTER KNOWING THAT i HAVENT BROKEN THE RULES?

I think someone needs to spend a week calming down outside this forum.

bonkey

neolxs wrote:

We sahould have a limited amount of imigration that the country requires. Not a overflowing of unskilled workers who are happy and quite prepared to work below the minimum wage and price Irish people out of jobs.

And its the foreigners fault the employers are willing and able to pay less than min wage.

Moneypoint was a good example.

Fiction.

The amount of money and employment Moneypoint brought to the region was, frankly, unprecedented. In terms of who built it, it was mostly Irish people.

It was built between 81 and 86, long before the immigration boom in Ireland, so I don't even see the relevancy....but that's hardly surprising.

Putting it politely, your argument regarding Moneypoint is a work of fiction from start to finish.

Even if it weren't the question would be who is to blame here? Who allowed a semi-state company to do this? Why was there no oversight? Why did no-one check the required laws were not being enforced?

Before large-scale immigration...back in the days of emigration...the complaint was the same, only then it was employers refusing to pay Irish people a decent wage. Today, we've shifted from blaming the employers to blaming the employees. And you know whats remained the same? The system that lets employers get away with it.

But lets just blame those immigrants, eh? Life was much better when it was our own sons and daughters emigrating for lack of a job, and their brothers and sisters getting paid below a fair wage.

Right?

Macmorris

neolxs wrote:

On a serious point is there anyway we van get a poll on here.

oscarBravo wrote:

No.

Why not? Afraid of the outcome?

bonkey wrote:

And its the foreigners fault the employers are willing and able to pay less than min wage.

No, it's the government's fault for providing those employers with a steady supply of cheap labour in the first place.

bonkey wrote:

Before large-scale immigration...back in the days of emigration...the complaint was the same, only then it was employers refusing to pay Irish people a decent wage. Today, we've shifted from blaming the employers to blaming the employees. And you know whats remained the same? The system that lets employers get away with it.

But lets just blame those immigrants, eh?

Again, I'd prefer to blame the politicians. They're the people who opened the flood gates that's led to this immigration mess.

oscarBravo

Macmorris wrote:

Why not? Afraid of the outcome?

No.

Macmorris

oscarBravo wrote:

No.

You're just not a big fan of democracy then?

bonkey

Macmorris wrote:

Again, I'd prefer to blame the politicians. They're the people who opened the flood gates that's led to this immigration mess.

You missed the whole bit where the mess existed before these so-called floodgates were opened, didn't you.

Or was it ok when Irish people were earning below the acceptable level, because at least no foreigners were involved?

oscarBravo

Macmorris wrote:

You're just not a big fan of democracy then?

1. A poll on an internet forum has very little to do with democracy.
2. Polls are not allowed on this forum. Deal with it.
3. Back on topic, please.

Macmorris

bonkey wrote:

You missed the whole bit where the mess existed before these so-called floodgates were opened, didn't you.

I agree that the problem has always existed but there is the potential now for the problem to be made much worse.

With tens of thousands of people coming here every year from countries where the average wage is only a fraction of ours, it's inevitable that Irish workers will lose out in the competition for jobs. We're clearly managing alright now as there's plenty of jobs to fill, but what will happen in a few years when the economy slows down?

And if you think this is only the ranting of the scare-mongering bigots, try reading any articles written by economists like David McWilliams or Moore McDowell. Although they're happy to point out how much the immigrants are adding to growth, in nearly all cases they warn about the danger of increased competition for jobs.

This is David McWilliams in last Sunday's Business Post
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/Articles/view.asp?CategoryID=-1&CategoryName=&ArticleID=386

However, if the economic vulnerability signalled by lower productivity were ever to lead to a situation where Irish workers started to lose out to immigrants and jobs became scarce, it is not difficult to foresee racist problems.

Have we prepared ourselves for that?

....

However, we are now absorbing more immigrants per head than any other European country; this should be generating a debate about their future in our country.

All we are hearing is a deafening silence.

And I wonder why is there such a silence. Fear of being called.... ?

bonkey wrote:

Or was it ok when Irish people were earning below the acceptable level, because at least no foreigners were involved?

It's not OK in either case, whether foreigners are involved or not. The problem is that people can freely discuss the former case without fear of being called racist but if they should dare to address the latter they're accused of being 'scare-mongering xenophobes', trying to blame the foreigners for all the country's problems.

oscarBravo wrote:

Polls are not allowed on this forum. Deal with it.

Why aren't they allowed?

Kaylee

bonkey wrote:

And what happens? People come along telling us we need to tackle the symptoms, not the underlying problem, and the symptom they pick first is almost always related to the immigrants or other foreigners. And we're supposed to accept that this is a reasonable, well-thought-out, position from someone "favouring cultural diversity" (i.e. someone who can't be therefore accused of racism).

Well thats fine. I can accept that people have an inability to analyse problems and find the right approach to tackling it. What I can't accept is that when they have it explained to them how they're looking at it wrongly, so many of these people, allegedly with nothing against foreigners, still look for another angle to blame the foreigners and yet expect me to believe that its not about the foreigners.

Well, immigrants are now an integral part of irish society, so a reappraisal of irish society includes them doesn't it? Ok maybe I'm a bit off topic there . . . ok, so 'Have EU Imigrants Benefited the Irish Republic?' The answer is - no, because our legal system, hospitals, gardai, infrastructure are not sufficiently able to cope with the added pressures of cultural/language differences resulting in added chaos where chaos already existed OR is the answer - yes, because the rental sector/construction industry is booming, it's easier for employers to get minimum wage workers and there are more attractive blonds about the place.

oscarBravo

Macmorris wrote:

Why aren't they allowed?

Because when they were, the board was overrun with spammy polls. Worse, logical and reasoned debate often went out the window, with people saying (in effect) "well 53% of people voted for my side in the poll therefore I must be right".

Now: no more offtopic waffle.

Macmorris

Macmorris wrote:

Why not? Afraid of the outcome?

We've had polls here where Sinn Fein were the largest party...
Go figure.
Personation and Double voting sometimes treble voting by people registering a few a/c's here with hit and run voting was also evident.

Then there were as Oscar says the people who benefited from the above,who'd say yada yada heres my poll result with no concept of debate.

Ergo no polls on this forum,just discussion and thats the way its staying.

Sgt. Sensible

neolxs wrote:

AGAIN ILL ASK THE QUESTION

HOW ARE IMIGRANTS BENEFITING THE COUNTRY?

By working, by being entrepreneurs, by paying taxes which contribute to the provision of public health, education and transport, by helping to maintain a healthy population growth which hopefully will get back up to pre-famine level some day and just by generally making the place look and sound an awful lot better than 10 years ago when I was making 120 pounds a week and everyone looked like they had some sort of disease.


Now how about answering my previous question:

If you were only in a job for 3 months how did you get to know people in the payroll section well enough to get them to divulge confidential info about other workers? Most businesses over a certain size will have their payroll section based at company HQ anyway, so the chances of an employee in some branch knowing anyone there in such a short time are extremely unlikely.

Tha Gopher

freddyfreeload wrote:

A small example: I'm in Dublin walking along with three colleagues. A car backfires and we all look around. There's a black guy driving it. The other three tut, shake their heads, roll their eyes knowingly. One goes "typical."

In all fairness, you dont need a UCD study to conclude alot of foreigners drive bad 3rd hand Irish cars. Thats not racist, its an observation based on an indiivdual intelligence that a 9 year old would notice, which many on this thread appear to lack.

OP- tbh i wouldnt even hope for a real response from most of this crowd. The typical Humanities poster is aged 26-35. When they were young, menial work was on a plate for them (bar the 30s guys, in fairness wanna job atmosphere only came about around 1996). Fcuk, I remember my cousin (29 now) back around 9 years ago, I remember i was staying in his and he was late 3 days in a row after going on the piss the nights before

His mam "If you keep this up yil be sacked"
Him "Who cares, Ill have another job by Monday"

And he did, he jumped between factory jobs like anything, he didnt care, it was walk in and you have it.

Nowadays, young Irish lads have no hope. I got into my decent present job by chance. And Im lucky. My friend got a warehouse job recently, in the starting group of 50 there were only two Irish. Its 9.50 an hour, not great but not bad. You really have to wonder if any other Irish apart from the 2 boys applied for it.

And the truth is, many of the people on boards couldnt give a fcuk. Hell, I know Nigerians that have pretty much grown up in Blanch over the last 9 odd years since the rush began, and theyve the same trouble getting work as the Irish do when it comes to the "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" policy that much menial workplaces have taken. You really think that in chain restaurents that have a manager from one group, thjat nearly all the staff seem to be from the same country? When theyre own kids grow up (assuming theyve found a female who believes this crap with whom they can mate) and they cant find a job, lets see where theyre whinging then.

QUOTE=Sgt. Sensible]How did you find out what your alleged replacement is being paid?

I'm not going to get an answer am I? If you're going to take the time to spam the thread with a load of made up twaddle, you can take the time to answer one simple question I think.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but in numerous AH threads when it coems to the PC crowd Ive asked more questions in my time than Chris Tarrant, and 90% of them have not been answered. Whilst the op hasnt given much feedback, the fact is most of the PC crowd know theyre wrong. Its the main reason they wont answer questions.