Have EU Imigrants Benefited The Irish Republic?

SALOU

mod edit: This is not the propaganda forum.

fly_agaric

Hobbes wrote:

South Korea. Population 48 million ....Purely numbers.

They didn't increase their population in the best modern way by shipping in a load of immigrants from other countries (ala US/Canada etc).
They did it the nasty and unfashionable way, by women staying at home + having too many kids so S. Korea is full of Koreans funnily enough. Their experience would be very different and no guide to ours if we do manage to raise our population massively by immigration.

I don't think cheaper cars, consumer goods, and broadband are worth having Asian megacity levels of population density here anyway.
Do you?

Glenbhoy

Vodalink,
you are correct in that persons earning the min. wage do not pay tax in this country, they may or may not be entitled to avail of certain benefits, I'm not inclined to find out.
You have omitted to mention that there is still employers prsi payable on these peoples wages, does that count?
As mentioned previously you have failed to consider the tax take from indirect taxation sources.
You have not included the contributions made towards other businesses who do pay tax, for example, the immigrant buys a bus ticket, does that help pay for the bus driver, and by extension the person who the bus driver pays to make his sandwich.......
Finally, the most fundamental flaw in your argument is that you fail to see that johnny foreigner whilst working in his min. wage job is (presumably) adding value to his employers products, these are then sold, probably subject to VAT, possibly excise duties, possibly exported. The employer pays corporation tax and tax on the salary he draws from the company, if johnny was not willing to come here and work, chances are that product would not be made and the output of the country as a whole would decrease, and by extension, all of our incomes and monies available for government expenditure would also decrease.
In my opinion the vast majority of economic arguments point to the benefits of immigration, there may be social and cultural problems, it's too early to tell (although my own experiences are positive).

Hobbes

fly_agaric wrote:

They did it the nasty and unfashionable way, by women staying at home + having too many kids so S. Korea is full of Koreans funnily enough.

Like I said. Its a numbers game. How they come by those numbers is immaterial.

I don't think cheaper cars, consumer goods, and broadband are worth having Asian megacity levels of population density here anyway.
Do you?

Well you can't have it both ways. Either you increase the population to make the price of goods go down and improve general living, or you sit around pissing and moaning about how everything is expensive because your whole country has the population of a small town in most major countries.

fly_agaric

Hobbes wrote:

Like I said. Its a numbers game. How they come by those numbers is immaterial.

When it comes to the size of your economy/bargaining power, yes - but I think it has a big bearing on the kind of society you end up with.

Hobbes wrote:

and improve general living

An Ireland with the population densities S. Korea has would not be improving "general living" here no matter how cheap the crap in the shops is. I can't believe you think that tbh. Unless you figure you'd be a person with the money to buy space and privacy and a bit of fresh air and contact with the natural world. I guarantee those will be very pricey and rare even if cars will get cheaper.

It could well happen if the gloomy predictions about the environment going down the pan, energy being scarce + expensive in future etc come to pass.

For example, N. Europe (the bits not under water) will be a bigger draw than ever for the miserable of the globe if the currently fertile and not too dry and hot parts of Asia (with those massive populations) and Africa become much more inhospitable places than now thanks to climate change.

Diogenes

fly_agaric wrote:

An Ireland with the population densities S. Korea has would not be improving "general living" no matter how cheap the crap in the shops is.

Why wouldn't it be? We've had a population density of over three times what it currently is in the past 200 years. Yes yes you'll cry, and look what happened. Well we're not a incredibly primititive agranian society for start. One doesn't need to travel to Sth Korea to see successful countries smaller than us with a much higher population density managing just fine. Belgium and Denmark for a start.

For example, N. Europe (the bits not under water) will be a bigger draw than ever for the miserable of the globe if the currently fertile and not too dry and hot parts of Asia (with those massive populations) and Africa become much more inhospitable places than now thanks to climate change.

Lets leave the day after tomorrow speculation aside shall we, we're talking about the influx of current EU migrants, you cannot suggest we change our imigration laws, because possibly at some point global warming may reach devestating levels.

dathi1

Well you can't have it both ways. Either you increase the population to make the price of goods go down and improve general living, or you sit around pissing and moaning about how everything is expensive because your whole country has the population of a small town in most major countries.

3 years post Nice2 and we’ve had the biggest influx since the Vikings. Property prices arestill through the roof and property speculators are packin em in as high as they can go. Tell me how many more years and how many more immigrants do we need to keep the fictitious cheap credit building boom economy (as George Lee on RTE called it) going? 1million 2 million 3million? Of course as before I will be accused of scaremongering but the same people were arguing in some cases that only (De Rossa) 2000 EU Eblock immigrants would come in post Nice2.

Hobbes

fly_agaric wrote:

An Ireland with the population densities S. Korea has would not be improving "general living" here no matter how cheap the crap in the shops is.

If we had the same infrastructure we have now then yes you would be correct, however if we built to think towards the future instead of what suits us now (eg. 2 lane M50) then it would help.

Further schools would have to be built, and more benefits put on raising children to increase our own population.

And its not the crap that is cheap in S.Korea. I got sick the last time I was overthere. Went to doctors. Got seen to straight away, had to go hospital and paid 20-30 euros and was seen to straight away, got xrays straight away and all sorted out in 2 hours.

Similar incident in Ireland I pay around 50 euros, get seen to about 6-8 hours later (as I am unable to get an appointment to see my doctor at that time), spend about 20 minutes with a doctor spanned over a further 1 hour and then sent home.

Until you have lived in another country with a much larger population density you don't realise how frickin backwards this country is.

dathi1 wrote:

Property prices arestill through the roof and property speculators are packin em in as high as they can go.

That has less to do with immigrants and more to do with just pure greed by Irish building companies. I mean my friend pre-dot com days paid 150,000 for his house and it doubled in price in the space of a few months.

bonkey

Tha Gopher wrote:

Bonkey, it wasnt in Politics, generally, that I posed these questions (I do stay off these forums generally, as threads just become 245 page arguements until theyre eventually locked), but theres several in AH and one or two in Humanities showing it.

Fair enough.

This isn't AH or Humanities, so I would still maintain that its somewhat unfair to be drawing conclusions about whether or not people here will (try to) answer questions just because other people in another forum may not have.

But how and ever....not important enough to get sidetracked.

Im not saying what my cousin did was responsible, but how can you argue that its fair that 18 year olds now suffer because of what people in the late 90s did?

Is it any fairer that immigrants be made to suffer, or anyone for that matter?

Is there any reason to believe that if the employer were forced into choosing an available 18-yr-old today over any other available applicant that the 18-year-olds wouldn't revert to similar behaviour once the law had effectively returned them to a "jobs for the asking" scenario?

The fair solution would appear to me to be to allow people to apply for jobs, to allow employers choose freely from amongst the applicants, and to deal with any emerging cases of clear discrimination that result.

As for my friend, it wasnt 2 out of 50 applicants, it was 2 out of 50 new hires, theres a difference.

My bad. I misunderstood what I read.

Yes, there is a difference, no question. Whether or not that difference is significant is still not clear from the information provided here. The application breakdown in terms of Irish/immigrants, for example, would play some role.

You yoruself said :

You really have to wonder if any other Irish apart from the 2 boys applied for it.

You're right. You do have to wonder that. If you're right, and thats the case, then its hard to suggest discrimination. If there 100% of Irish applicants were hired, they certainly haven't been discriminated against.

If you're wrong, then the significance of the breakdown is related to how wrong you are, how many Irish people did apply, and so forth.

So we're back to square one. We have inconclusive data. Bear in mind that inconclusive data doesn't mean that it supports the notion that everything is a-ok. I'm not trying to suggest that at all.

All I'm saying is that conclusions drawn from inconclusive data must be discarded. The question should still be asked, and we should see what we do and don't know. If we know enough to draw valid conclusions, great. If not, we can determine what we need to find out in order to draw conclusions....but thats where we should stop.

Its a personal observation, but I notice that what generally happens is that someone asks a question (for the right or wrong reasons) and then the discussion devolves into people suggesting the asnwer is already known and those who disagree.

Someone then suggests that there is opposition to the asking of such questions, whereas the reality is that there is mostly only opposition to presumptive and assumptive answers (and, obviously, loaded questions and all the rest which crops up from time to time).

jc

oscarBravo

bonkey wrote:

Someone then suggests that there is opposition to the asking of such questions, whereas the reality is that there is mostly only opposition to presumptive and assumptive answers (and, obviously, loaded questions and all the rest which crops up from time to time).

True. Worse, the opposition to the loaded questions and illogical arguments is interpreted as "fear" of finding out the "truth". Another unhappy outcome - which I saw today - is the assumption that whoever gets the last word "wins" the argument.

fly_agaric

Diogenes wrote:

Why wouldn't it be? We've had a population density of over three times what it currently is in the past 200 years. Yes yes you'll cry, and look what happened. Well we're not a incredibly primititive agranian society for start. One doesn't need to travel to Sth Korea to see successful countries smaller than us with a much higher population density managing just fine. Belgium and Denmark for a start.

3 times our current population density will not give anything like the S. Korean level. Take your 3 and square it.:)
We can increase our density a good deal without negative effects of the type I was talking about (if, as Hobbes said, we plan for it correctly which is a big if), but to increase it to anything like S. Korea's level would definitely make Ireland a worse place to live (in my opinion) in several respects no matter how good the planning is.
In any case, immigration at this kind of level should be a disaster waiting to happen so I'd expect we'd find there would be plenty of other problems with trebling our population density in this way.
Is there anywhere it has been done successfully?

Diogenes wrote:

Lets leave the day after tomorrow speculation aside shall we

Okay. It is kind of irrelevant to the thread.

Diogenes wrote:

we're talking about the influx of current EU migrants, you cannot suggest we change our imigration laws, because possibly at some point global warming may reach devestating levels.

I don't think we should change our immigration laws because of future climate change.
Just thinking out loud about Ireland's future population, how Hobbes may get yet his dream of an Ireland with a population of 35 millions or so (shudder).
If that Climate change refugee scenario comes to pass, we can make whatever laws we like and it won't matter a damn.:)

aslantheslayer

Firstly I just want to say that I am not swayed either way to the argument of are Immigrants good for Ireland or not. I beleive that anyone should be allowed to work and benefit a country as well as themselves, but I dont beleive that criminals and welfare claimaints from other countries should be entitled to the same free laws that we all enjoy. That said I just wanted to tell you guys something that happened today to my wife.

Just a ordinary Tuesday morning and my wife was taking my two boys to school in the car. In the car park she drove into a Latvian car cut her up and nearly caused her to crash into him. Now my wife being strong minded had no hesitation to blow her horn and shout out to the driver of the car. However he got out of his car and came upto her window and opened her door and started shouting at her. Obviously my wife and my kids were scared at this stage, but again my wife being strong minded gave as good as she got.

Meanwhile a Garda car on patrol pulled up and went to see what was going on. On seeing this bloke shouting and threatining my wife they immediately pulled him away from her car whiles they tried to find out what was going on. On touching the latvian guy, he turned around and pushed the Gardai to the floor! My wife obviously thought that the guy would be arrested there and then. However the other Garda explained to her that it was hard for a garda to charge assault in these circumstances as the Migrants always claim fear and intimidation, and a basic understanding of English.

My wife explained to the Garda what had happened, The Garda took down the details of the Latvian guy. Meanwhile all through this the Latvian guy was shouting at the Guards you can touch me, I am protected under European Law, My Embassy told me that under section ....... She said the Gardai atthis stage were getting fed up with the guy.

The Garda explained to my wife that she was lucky he didnt hit her, as they have no insurance, no tax and 9 out of 10 times when these immigrants have a accident on Irish roads they tend to claim whiplash etc and sue the other driver. They have nothing to loose because they are protected by EU Driving law, and receive free legal aid from the state if there on a low income. Meanwhile the insured drivers insurance company alway tend just to pay uo,, rather than deal with the hassle and then put up the insurance premiums of the insured driver!

The other Garda came over and explained to his colleague that this guy had been living in the state for 7 months. Was on full benefit claims and was living with 7 of his friends. THe Garda that I had been speaking to went to his car. About 5 minutes later a Garda Tow truck was on the scene had towing this latvians car away. Apparentlly he had broke irish law and was resident for over 6 months. Well this Latvian wasnt happy and was spouting to the Gauards that he would sue them under section... of Eu law, and then he turned to my wife and said he would *ucking kill the *itch!

Well straight away the guy was on the floor and his rights where being read to him. He was now under arrest for threatining behaviour!

What a fun Tuesday morning my wife had!

bonkey

aslantheslayer wrote:

Firstly I just want to say that I am not swayed either way to the argument of are Immigrants good for Ireland or not. I beleive that anyone should be allowed to work and benefit a country as well as themselves, but I dont beleive that criminals and welfare claimaints from other countries should be entitled to the same free laws that we all enjoy. That said I just wanted to tell you guys something that happened today to my wife.

Firstly, I want to say that I am fully swayed by alsantheslayer's proclamation that he has nothing against foreigners coming to Ireland and isn't necessarily on one side of the debate or the other.

That said, I just wanted to tell you guys that without reading the rest of his post, I knew it would be something anecdotally negative about foreigners coming to Ireland.

Hobbes

On touching the latvian guy, he turned around and pushed the Gardai to the floor!

First time in my life I have ever heard of a guard not hauling someone in for hitting a guard. Heck you can get dragged in for just putting your hands on a guard regardless if your Irish, immigrant, tourist, whatever.

There is no "EU driving law" that protects them from being arrested. Its total bollox. Either the gardai needs more training or the lativian was just spouting BS.

Duras

aslantheslayer wrote:

...
What a fun Tuesday morning my wife had!

That's a sad story to hear, but - taking it is true - it's clear enough that it has nothing to do with Latvian migration to Ireland but to Gardai incompetence...

However I find it very hard to believe that you get get away with attacking a Garda, no matter how basic your English is and how intimidated you feel.

Diogenes

Its not really a smoking gun, but the Cronicles of Narnia have, like The Lord of the Rings, been hijacked by the far right. I like how we get the "Now I'm not a racist, and then proceed to get told an ancedote which manages to put forward pretty much every negative stereotype the right is using aganist migrants. Poor drivers? Yup. No tax, No insurance? Yup. Garda hands tied? Yup. Decent Hardworking Irish penalised for this Behaviour. That's a big ten four. Hostile Agressive and Abusive? Check. Decent Garda's hands tied by (non existant) EU bureacracy? Oh yeah. Violence as the Garda can only just stand idly by? Oh Jah Jah. Scrounging benefits and living with 7 others. Correctamundo (How did the Garda find out that last bit by the way?)

Frankly I'm surprised the Garda didn't open the boot of his Car, and find underaged Irish girls being lured into Prostitution, Big bags of Heroin, and several dead swans in orange sauce.

I liked how she was on the school run. Nice touch that.

aslantheslayer

You know i forgot to mention the bit about when he opened the boot.....

Jesus, Im only mentioning something that happened to my wife this morning that I thought was relevant to the thread.

Im not saying that all migrants arelike this, my post actually says I have no problem with anyone working here, but I certainly dont condone behaviour of some either Irish or Migrant that behaves like this. And Maybe, I dont know what, but maybe we should try and do something about the bad migrants that abuse there freedom and ruin it for all. Its small minded people like the one that my wife and kids had the misfortune of meeting this morning that do ruin it for all the decent hard workingt migrants that come here for a better life.

And Yes I too am very surprised that throwing a Garda to the floor didnt warrant a immediate arrest. But the point I was trying to make here is WHY the Garda felt he couldnt do anything with this. Everyday I read in papers that if anyone even looks at a garda in the wrong way they seem to spell a term in jail or sr a big fine, so imagine my surprise when the garda here in quesiotn claims he cant do anything when pushed to the floor by a migrant. I certainly have never heard of any such law from the EU in regards to this so I too would beleive this to be BS. But I would be love to know if there are any Guards on here than could shed some light on this!

Diogenes

aslantheslayer wrote:

all the decent hard workingt migrants that come here for a better life.

And Yes I too am very surprised that throwing a Garda to the floor didnt warrant a immediate arrest. But the point I was trying to make here is WHY the Garda felt he couldnt do anything with this.

And this is the point where your tenuious story reaches breaking point. I've never heard of a Gardai not feel that they can arrest someone for assault for simply touching the Garda. Someone shoving a Garda to the ground in front of witnesses and you're trying to tell me that the Garda didn't arrest him because

the other Garda explained to her that it was hard for a garda to charge assault in these circumstances as the Migrants always claim fear and intimidation, and a basic understanding of English.

Bollocks. I won't call you liar because I cannot prove this story occured or did not occur. But in my experience a Garda will arrest you for striking a Garda, as for someone trying to claim the language barrier, as a defence, in such an assault case I can actually hear the Judge as he announces sentencing "Hitting a policeman is a crime in any language, in any country."

Everyday I read in papers that if anyone even looks at a garda in the wrong way they seem to spell a term in jail or sr a big fine, so imagine my surprise when the garda here in quesiotn claims he cant do anything when pushed to the floor by a migrant.

Imagine your suprise. :rolleyes:

I certainly have never heard of any such law from the EU in regards to this so I too would beleive this to be BS. But I would be love to know if there are any Guards on here than could shed some light on this!

So let me get this clear this guy's english is so bad, yet he was able to dazzle them with legalise about EU regulations? They won't arrest him for assaulting a Garda but will for benefit fraud. Hang on how did they know he was commiting benefit fraud? The department of social services don't put out APBs on people commiting benefit fraud.

This story is rapidly getting a hole that a fleet of untaxed uninsured Lativan Scoda's could drive through.

sovtek

bonkey wrote:

Firstly, I want to say that I am fully swayed by alsantheslayer's proclamation that he has nothing against foreigners coming to Ireland and isn't necessarily on one side of the debate or the other.

That said, I just wanted to tell you guys that without reading the rest of his post, I knew it would be something anecdotally negative about foreigners coming to Ireland.

As a foreignor I love to drive around without insurance and assualt innocent girls with newborns and prang them with my car...then when the Guardia get involved to assualt them without so much as a prostest to the girly men in blue.
Jaysus I wish I could live in such a world where the very guys that can send me packing home I can abuse with so much abandone.

MrPudding

sovtek wrote:

As a foreignor I love to drive around without insurance and assualt innocent girls with newborns and prang them with my car...then when the Guardia get involved to assualt them without so much as a prostest to the girly men in blue.
Jaysus I wish I could live in such a world where the very guys that can send me packing home I can abuse with so much abandone.

Sure all the immigrants have diplomatic immunity. Did you not know that?

MrP

Diogenes

The Garda explained to my wife that she was lucky he didnt hit her, as they have no insurance, no tax and 9 out of 10 times when these immigrants have a accident on Irish roads they tend to claim whiplash etc and sue the other driver. They have nothing to loose because they are protected by EU Driving law, and receive free legal aid from the state if there on a low income.

I'm just amazed to discover that personal injuries direct are a state body.

lemik_24

Hi all

First of all I'm originally from Poland, but i live in dublin nearly 2,5 years.

I read all your posts and I'd like to say thank you for all of you who are trying to defend immigrants from new EU countries.

When i arrived to Ireland I didn't have work experience - I finished my studies and week later I landed in Dublin. I didn't have a lot of money with me and I needed job quickly - I found a job as gen operative on construction site - I got the same salary as any other irish person on my position. Then i found a job in broadband company as a network admin.( I got degree in IT sector)
Unfortunatelly I lost my job after my contract expired - as same as few other Irish people - reason - project has finished no more work for all of you. month later Irish company with irish management hired new employess but gave them nearly half less of my salary. - 1) it is not true that we agree to work for less salary than irish - it is becouse of irish managers/employers who wants to save more money I started to look after next job - and i got it in electronic shop as sales assistant - Employer lied - told me that i will get xxx and i got less - after 3 weeks he started to cut my hours - I said enough and got fired. I asked social welfare for help and i got unemployed benefit ( rules for immigrants from new EU countries are - to be 2 years in Ireland or work without break 52 weeks.) after 3 weeks I got new job in one of biggest multinational IT companies in Ireland - and happy with my job I'm still here.


Every time during interview i saw plenty of cv's and i know that a lot of people were trying to get my job - irish , polish, lithuanian etc. so my question is Why did I get that jobs? am I better than any other person ?

some of you are saying that we are taking your job places - but this is employer decision if he wants to have well educated and motivated worker or person who can only complain about everything. - there is usually the same salary in shops or on construction sites for everyone. I can see a lot of job offers with info JCB rates

If some of you can't get any job becouse of immigrants- maybe it is time to get some more education ?? there are 1000's of immigrants working in shops as dunnes stores etc - and they get the same salary as irish employees. Why employers want to hire us who can't correctly speak english ?? maybe that is becouse we are never late, punctual, honest and really hard working ?

I heard few from employers that they are happy of immigrants becouse they want to work!! and they work faster than irish. that is why in my first job 80% of employees were polish and lithuanian.

what is more few days ago i saw on billboards politician advert
it was something like that - i promise that i will work for you as hard as you are working everyday - and i saw irish people laughting at this..........


Why in shops like pc world there are only pakistanian sales assistant?
Everytime when i ask for assistance any irish sales assistant- firstly he must read what is written on the box and then he answers that what i already know i must forget about any technical question or check it in internet - i don't have this problems with immigrants.

To be honest I don't understand some of you complaining about people from eastern europe

I met several times with opinion that immigrants are taking irish jobs.
But the funniest thing is that irish who said that were from "Finglas" - with no school finished and with crime offences against them.

I want also to add few words about wages - Usually when new people arrives to ireland they have not enough money to look after job they would like to get - we are taking first available job - some of us don't speak english - and employers know that, and are trying to save more money on us becouse we don't have any other choice. my question is whose false it is? our or irish employer? we must have some money to live and we must accept first offer ( of course there are some people who has money - and they are getting jobs on their conditions but it doesn't happen very often)

I read something about crime, rapes etc

- that is true bad things happens everywhere and not everybody is an angel but some of you are trying to make big case of small thing.

Look at you dear irish people don't you see your kids what are they doing ?

in dublin there are hundreds of "young" gangs - kids are throwing stones into buses, stealing cars, burning them, drinking, smoking and robbing.

some time ago I was attacked in city centre by few kids who started throwing in my direction fireworks and i got hit in back - for nothing of course.
then some irish stole my friend's car - they were cought by garda, she got back her car and two weeks later she saw her windscreen broken - as a revenge

what is irish goverment doing to improve safety on streets? nothing - young people can do everything. In my country there is special prison with school for young people who has a lot of problems with law and they spend there long years before they can come back to their family home.

maybe two weeks ago some youth tried to steal car of my other friend - i called garda 5 times and they arrived 10 hours later at 11.30pm and told that they can't do anything with this ( there was a lot of blood in car so I asked if they could check local hospital maybe one of roobers was trying to get help )

another example - irish thiefs tried to robber my friend's house during night - but there was one friend inside house and he heard their conversation- they ran away.

I saw a lot of times garda during their work - while they were checking all car labels - and i saw a lot of irish drivers stopped becouse they didn't have insurance or tax or whatever else. - why are you saing that only we have problems???

So finally - I'm paying taxes, i have a car, insurance, road tax, nct I pay every bills - and i don't understand why some of you think that i should't have the same right as you dear irish people. we live in EU - you wanted EU so it is natural that i can live where i want to - becouse we are all the same people - we only talk different languages.



ps. please don't think that in my opinion irish people are not well educated or are lazy - i met hundreds of great hard working people well educated who teached me a lot of things and are helping me every day.

i wrote it the same way as some of you think of us.

we are all people and there are bad eggs between of us.


ps2 I'm still learning english - i hope that you can understand me and I'm sorry for my basic knowledge of words and my grammar.

Sgt. Sensible

lemik_24 wrote:

some of you are saying that we are taking your job places - but this is employer decision if he wants to have well educated and motivated worker or person who can only complain about everything.

When I worked in Dublin, immigrants (from Israel, Poland, Denmark, Russia, Pakistan etc) would complain to me that Irish workers don't complain enough about wages and conditions. I think it's because they're afraid to do so. So it's easy for employers to push workers around, lie, and issue sackings willy nilly. And this goes some way to fomenting bad feeling between Irish workers and immigrants (who tend to bear the brunt of exploitative employer practices).

fly_agaric

lemik_24 wrote:

some of you are saying that we are taking your job places - but this is employer decision if he wants to have well educated and motivated worker or person who can only complain about everything.

If some of you can't get any job becouse of immigrants- maybe it is time to get some more education ??

Why employers want to hire us who can't correctly speak english ?? maybe that is becouse we are never late, punctual, honest and really hard working ?...
I heard few from employers that they are happy of immigrants becouse they want to work!! and they work faster than irish. that is why in my first job 80% of employees were polish and lithuanian.

Everytime when i ask for assistance any irish sales assistant- firstly he must read what is written on the box and then he answers that what i already know i must forget about any technical question or check it in internet - i don't have this problems with immigrants.

...irish who said that were from "Finglas" - with no school finished and with crime offences against them.

Look at you dear irish people don't you see your kids what are they doing ?

in dublin there are hundreds of "young" gangs - kids are throwing stones into buses, stealing cars, burning them, drinking, smoking and robbing.

and then:

ps. please don't think that in my opinion irish people are not well educated or are lazy - i met hundreds of great hard working people well educated who teached me a lot of things and are helping me every day.

What's up with the sudden backtrack at the end there?

You spoiled it somewhat by putting that in.

lemik_24

"What's up with the sudden backtrack at the end there?

You spoiled it somewhat by putting that in."


there are a lot of voices against immigrants ..... and it is all written above
so there is no point to remind it again

I just wanted to put your attention on that bad things happen everywhere with every nation in every country and if somebody is writing that becouse of immigrants crime statistics has raisen - I will agree with it only if that person will add that not only irish people are victims - also we immigrants are attacked by irish.

some of us don't have tax, insurance and both "groups" are fighting with garda and has problems with law.


and about work what more can i say - i wrote words that i heard from Irish employers and irish friends and read in irish newspapers and saw on my own eyes. I'm sure that some of you agree with it.

next
as I wrote before it is not our fault that employers want us to be their employees - i have never heard that any irish person with good education background or work experience had any problems to get a job.

i also never heard any bad words about immigrants from irish people that I know. They simply says that if i didn't have big problem to get good job so that means that irish people shouldn't have any problems.

and about wages - isn't it a goverment mistake that is not trying to solve problems with employers who are firing people to hire new for half money ??
there is nothing we can do about this - if some of immigrants won't agree to get low salary - they won't have money to pay a rent or buy a loaf of bread

finally my last sentence - i wrote it becouse I don't have anything against any of irish people and so far everyone are friendly and helpfull for me.

Unpossible

its sounding (according to limek_24) that Ireland is a nightmare to live in, if its so bad then why stay? You clearly have a bunch of issues with Irish people. If my life became like that here in finland then I'd go back to Ireland or on to another country.

This is not a put up or get out post, Im just genuinly curious as to why people would stay in a place which was so terrible and the local populance are so bad (and you get taken advantage of *so much* ), you could go to the UK they speak english there too

I guess its not as bad as you are making out (that or deep down you realise you are better off in Ireland)

oscarBravo

Unpossible wrote:

You clearly have a bunch of issues with Irish people.

You clearly haven't read his posts.

democrates

I agree with your points lemik.

Sadly there is no shortage of racist attitudes in Ireland, often held by people who are having problems in their own lives and use immigrants as a convenient scapegoat. Long before immigration this type of person was complaining about he, she, and the famous they. Everyone else was to blame for their problems, but never themselves.

I get that you're just pointing out that it's not the case that immigrants are bad and Irish are good, or visa versa, the truth is there's a mix of good and bad in both groups. Maybe it's where I live but over 90% of the immigrants I've met are decent hard-working people just trying to make their way in life.

Unpossible

You clearly haven't read his posts.

I have, I just felt that he deemed Irish as lazy or trying to take advantage of him.
I'm getting the feeling he wrote;

please don't think that in my opinion irish people are not well educated or are lazy - i met hundreds of great hard working people well educated who teached me a lot of things and are helping me every day.

just to ensure he didnt get a flaming.

oscarBravo

I'm getting the feeling he wrote:

I don't have anything against any of irish people and so far everyone are friendly and helpfull for me.

because he doesn't have anything against Irish people and so far everyone is friendly and helpful to him. Maybe that's just me.