Threatening Solicitors Letter From Eircom

blackeyes

So hear is how the story goes. Back in March this year, Eircom had an online offer to reconnect to Eircom phone services for free. I'd just moved into a house and there was a phone wall socket all sorted in my hall already so I thought Great, I'll take up the offer.

Onwards, the connection was fine until I got my first bill & couldn't belive that the connection fee was on the bill..€125 or there abouts. So I got onto Customer services where I was told that if I paid the connection fee they would recredit my account the following month....I said no, that I wanted the bill re-sent minus the connection fee which I wasn't supposed to be billed for in the first place.

2 months pass and I'm still having no joy on having the connection fee removed from the bill. I certainly had no faith that if I paid the money it would be recredited...and what good is €125 credit on a phone account I would only use to ring my gran once a week.

Then the final notice appeared and the line was cut off. Fair enough and I just put it out of my mind. Today I got a letter threatening legal action from a solicitors firm representing Eircom. So I have 7 days to pay something I wasn't supposed to be charged for in the first place...great. Oh & my name would be sent onto a debt collection firm if I didn't respond in the alloted time...even better. Not to mention that it states that I may never be able to get a mortgage and might loose my job as well.....bring it on!

There is the small matter of course that I never actually signed and returned the Telephone customer agreement contract! Nothing with my signature ties me to Eircom.

Of course I can never prove that when I signed up online that it was to an offer for reconnection. The offer removed from the site..no doubt no traces of it on their webservers. And their automated response is so generic its no use.

SO THINK BEFORE SIGNING UPTO OFFERS ONLINE....rather hard to prove unless you save the website or something!.

monkeyfudge

You could have a go at using the Way Back Machine on www.archive.org, it caches old copies of websites.

Hotblack Desiato

blackeyes wrote:

There is the small matter of course that I never actually signed and returned the Telephone customer agreement contract! Nothing with my signature ties me to Eircom.

There's your answer.
Tell the debt collection company that you will pay nothing without proof of a signed contract between you and Eircom. They don't have a leg to stand on otherwise.

Slice

Your best bet is to write to Eircom directly, probably best to address it to their customer service Director (that information should be on their website) - explain the situation and advise that you are willing to counter sue for harassment should they pursue this matter without first amending the amount you owe them. Chances are they would drop the money in its entirety if you come out with something like that...

antoinolachtnai

It's too late for this in the OP's case, but in practical terms, the best way to deal with this situation is to accept eircom's offer of a credit, and then pay the current bill, minus the disputed amount.

They are very unlikely to cut off your phone if there is a credit on the next bill (although anything is possible). It is not official eircom policy that you can do this, but it usually works.

The reason this is the best idea is because eircom just don't seem to have any way of easily issuing a corrected bill. It's just the way the system works, it seems bill-printing is a once-off thing.

I would be sure to copy the solicitor on any letters you send. Sending a letter explaining the whole situation is probably a very wise idea.

I do not think eircom will dispute that they had a 'free reconnection' offer, although again, anything is possible.

I would try ringing the collections department and see if you can sort it out. The problem with eircom is that it is a big company, and it may be hard to actually track down and get talking to the person who can actually resolve your problem. You have to be very patient. Keep a log of everyone you have talked to.

Another idea, if you are in the Dublin area, is to ask the agent where he or she is located, and then offer to go down to the premises right away to trash out the whole issue. This offer is unlikely to be greeted enthusiastically, but it at least shows you mean business.

The debt collections company doesn't really need a signed contract with you. Your arrangement with eircom is on a statutory footing and there is an implied contract which gives eircom a lot of rights. They must have some sort of consent on record for the installation too, and the fact that you started using the line could well be evidence enough.

Hotblack Desiato

antoinolachtnai wrote:

The reason this is the best idea is because eircom just don't seem to have any way of easily issuing a corrected bill. It's just the way the system works, it seems bill-printing is a once-off thing.

So if they bill you incorrectly for €500 or €1000 you just have to pay it and then get it credited off your future bills - or else face disconnection?

That's legalised robbery.

Your arrangement with eircom is on a statutory footing and there is an implied contract which gives eircom a lot of rights. They must have some sort of consent on record for the installation too, and the fact that you started using the line could well be evidence enough.

So a flatmate or whoever can start using a phone line that was installed in your name, without your written consent, and that is 'proof' that YOU have consented to the installation?

Sounds very fishy to me.

Even if Eircom have a recording of the phone call ordering the reconnection, can they prove the caller is the OP and would that stand up in court (if it came down to it) ?

antoinolachtnai

ninja900 wrote:

So if they bill you incorrectly for €500 or €1000 you just have to pay it and then get it credited off your future bills - or else face disconnection?

That's legalised robbery.

No, I didn't say that. Read again carefully! I said that you should deduct the disputed (i.e., credited) amount from your payment. Then things will balance out on the next bill, which should have the credit on it. In the interim, you will show as having an unpaid debt, but they are unlikely to cut you off right away if you have a significant credit on your next bill (and they usually don't cut off until the bill is delinquent for 40 or 50 days anyway).

The eircom system wasn't my idea and I'm not defending it, I'm just saying what the best way to cope with it seems to be.

So a flatmate or whoever can start using a phone line that was installed in your name, without your written consent, and that is 'proof' that YOU have consented to the installation?

Sounds very fishy to me.

Even if Eircom have a recording of the phone call ordering the reconnection, can they prove the caller is the OP and would that stand up in court (if it came down to it) ?

It's an interesting one, but probably. You are liable for calls made on the line if you get the line installed.

You could dispute having ordered the line, but I think it would have to be pretty obvious that it wasn't you before you would get anywhere with this.

It almost certainly would stand up in court. The law is set up so that eircom tends to get the benefit of the doubt on these things. Read the 1983 act for yourself and see what I mean.

Slice

No, do not pay the disputed bill. Pay any undisputed bills but do not pay any portion of the disputed bill until they have applied a credit for the amount being disputed. Ask for a credit note if you have to, they are obliged to give you this in leu of a revised bill.

Even if you pay a portion of the disputed bill before the balance is ammended it can be argued that you are accepting liability for the bill in question (in it's entirety).

Sponge Bob

These offers come and go. Many of the old specials are findable on Boards.

search the BB forum for a relevant thread say

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/f-259-p-31.html
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/f-259-p-32.html
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/f-259-p-33.html
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/f-259-p-34.html

are all around March this year .

This fella was ripped off after a december 2003 promotion for example.

If you disputed the ripoff with eircom and they did not yield then Comreg will deal with it and will tell you definitively whether there was a free connection offer for "In Situ Lines" in force on the ORDER date consumerline@comreg.ie

Hotblack Desiato

antoinolachtnai wrote:

No, I didn't say that. Read again carefully! I said that you should deduct the disputed (i.e., credited) amount from your payment. Then things will balance out on the next bill, which should have the credit on it.

indeed you did, sorry.

TempestSabre

I usually take a screencapture and save the webpage of any transaction online I do. Just incase theres a difference in whats printed and what was onscreen. Also it means I can email it to someone in the event of a dispute.

Buceph

The debt collection agency is a bluff. There's no such thing in Ireland. The only person who can come onto your property and start seizing things is the Sheriff, and that's after a district court decision. For there to be a district court decision they have to issue proceedings on you, so you will get a summons before then, don't ignore that.

However, I'm not sure about Eiroms standing if what antoinolachtnai says about special provisions in a certain act is correct. Get onto comreg and see what they say. Start approaching solicitors and don't pay anything, as has already been said, that could be construed as an admission of liability.

TheDriver

Go to COmreg, all the communications companies are very weary of them.

lostexpectation

Not to mention that it states that I may never be able to get a mortgage and might loose my job as well.

did it actually say that on the letter!!

have you talk to someone at eircom and asked them is the right way to deal with a mistake that they made.

antoinolachtnai

You could lose your job if you have a judgement registered against you and published in Stubb's Gazette, depending on your contract of employment. It would make it very difficult to get a mortgage.

There are in fact such things as debt collection agencies in ireland.

Try not to get upset about this. It's just the eircom machine. Like I say, it's a big company. If you get on to someone and are patient, you will get this sorted out.

Ask eircom to send you out a statement showing the credited amount and pay it, will probably sort things out.

shoegirl

Buceph wrote:

The debt collection agency is a bluff. There's no such thing in Ireland.

Eh actually there are several. They don't have any legal standing until you are taken to court, but they can and will bug you constantly with calls and letters unless you respond.

I don't think anybody sends round the sherrif unless the debt is considerable.

Dundalk Daily

Eircom have to be the worst Irish company to deal with, the legal letter is rubbish they never follow it up and will even go as far as sending out a "draft" court summons.

ChipZilla

Buceph wrote:

The debt collection agency is a bluff. There's no such thing in Ireland. The only person who can come onto your property and start seizing things is the Sheriff, and that's after a district court decision. For there to be a district court decision they have to issue proceedings on you, so you will get a summons before then, don't ignore that.

Oh yes, there is such a thing as collection agencies. I've been in business less than a year and have had to use them on nearly a dozen occasions to encourage payment from individuals and businesses who think they don't need to pay their bills. :eek:

It's all very civilised. You don't get a visit from guys with knuckledusters and baseball bats. They will annoy the sh*t out of you though and take you to court if need be.

Buceph

Your right. I should have clarified what I was saying. It's not like in England, and like what you see on the tv shows. You will get told that the case is being heard in the disctrict court, they won't show up on your doorstep and barge there way in.

FranknFurter

They wont, BUT they will bug you to death until you get in touch with them to arrange a payment or payment plan.
IIRC what happens is Eircon sell the debt to these companies who then have to make you pay more than the actual bill in "costs". Which they will increase for every day after the 7 days if you dont contact them.

Happened to me a few years back, and Im still making payments on it to the company.

But im telling ya, the collection company will bug the hell out of you till you contact *them* and the letters they send are always worded to be extremely "scary" mentioning things like "recovering the sum by any possible means and publishing your name in stubbs gazette" and my particular favourite was "your property and or assets can be seized without notice" (for a bill of 75 euro!)...... boy did I have fun ringing them on that little gem, telling them how I would have their collectors arrested for entering my property without invitation (which is illegal in the form they were suggesting).

I have no problem with a company recovering a debt, what I do have a problem with is how they go about it. Sending letters and phonecalls that are designed to scare the hell out of you by using unclear and suggestive remarks is not on as far as I'm concerned. I have seen many elderly people freak out completely and end up ill due to recieving such.

B