abortion or not?

Darragh29

iguana wrote:

Lots of animals protect the lives of others, even at the cost even at the cost of their own. That's far from uniquely human, it's opposable thumbs that set us apart.

Look, you believe the foetus is a baby, and I believe it's a cluster of cells unless the person who is carrying it chooses to see it differently. This debate is not the purpose of this thread. I shouldn't have let myself get into this debate here and refuse to any further.

No, I believe a foetus has the potential to become a baby, and unless there is a good and valid reason, I believe that potential should not be disturbed, it's as simple as that. I would go as far to say that the OP is seriously confused in what she is thinking. In support of this I quote:

I want to educate my child very well on my own,which requires a great deal of time to do so.

And then we are told:

Besides,i have never been interested in having children.

I want a baby and want to educate my child on my own, ohh wait a minute, I've never been interested in having children??? A contradiction if there ever was one. My opinion remains that the OP is selfish and self-centered, regardless of what option she chooses. More power to people who say she has the right to do whatever she wants, her body her choice, etc.

Darragh29

spurious wrote:

In answer to the usual stuff that has been raised here....YES in my opinion an adult woman's life is much more valuable than that of a clump of cells and I make absolutely no apology for believing that - everytime.

Again, NO ONE has the right to tell this woman what to do - it is her body, her life, her decision.

Au contraire Rodney! This woman came on here asking for people's opinions as to what she should do, so anyone who reads her OP has a right to reply, because she asked for opinions. You tell her what you think about her situation and then basically tell everyone else to shut up!?!?!

cordelia

Where's your husband and what's his opinion in all this?
That's the main question. The fact that he is mentioned as almost a side note makes me hesitant. You're married and, as far as I'm concerned, he has a right to have input in this decision.

JC 2K3

Commander Vimes wrote:

what about the baby that had had its one shot taken away? was its shot less important than it's mothers?

Roll the die. Shít randomly happens. What if the potential mother of a child had died in a car crash a few years before? What if the potential soulmate of the woman made a descision to move abroad before they met? There could have been a child born but it simply didn't happen that way. The choice to have an abortion or not is as random as any other circumstance. Its shot wasn't less important, it was non existant.

Doctor Fell

LadyJ wrote:

abortion
It's a very personal thing

Some people can cope with aborting a child

LadyJ wrote:

abortion
It's a very personal thing

Some people can cope with aborting a child
.

What do you mean, personal thing? We are talking about the life of 2 people here, not one. Some people may cope with it, but how does the child who has their life taken cope???
Some people can cope with murder, doesn't make it right, does it?

"You won't know until you do it" - what do you mean by that??? I don't know how I would feel about killing someone. Are you suggesting I just go for it, and see how I feel after?

LadyJ wrote:

Agreed. To succeed in life,sometimes we have to make "selfish" decisions. Doesn't make us bad people. Life is not so black and white.

Actually yes, killing someone does make you a bad person. It is black and white - taking a human's life is not good i.e. bad.


To the OP - do you honestly not realise that you are talking about your child's life? That right now there is a human being inside you?
If you know this, how can you talk about killing that person? If you don't think its a person, what is it? We are agreed "it" is human, I assume?
I mean the arguments are too manifold to get into here, but please stop and think about it. You are pregnant with a human child. Why do you think it is OK to kill that child? You nor anyone else has the right to take human life, and people who do think this are truly delusional. This is life we are talking about, I could never understand why some people are so quick to destroy and attack it.
Of course your life will change now you are pregnant, but that's life. Killing somebody is never the solution. Its really horrific that people here and in the "real" world try to justify killing children, because that is the reality of abortion. It is taking the life of defenceless humans by brutal means, and trying to justify it by banal waffling about black and white etc is sickening.

So please, don't kill your child. I'm sure they will thank you some day for not killing her/him.

astrofool

Commander Vimes wrote:

i'd like to point out that i'm an atheist so my opinion of abortion isn't based on any kind of religious belief

But it is based on your own belief that a baby before being born is a full person, which is an act of faith, much like most religions (this being your own). At what particular point is a person a person?

Either way, the OP (who hasn't replied yet), is going to be basing their decision off their own beliefs (regardless of religious background), and right now seems to agree with abortion, and who's to say your belief is right and her's wrong?

Doctor Fell

Faith wrote:

This thread isn't a debate about whether abortion is right or wrong, or when life begins. The OP is simply asking for impartial opinions.

Yes, to have an abortion is a selfish decision but ultimately every decision we make is selfish. My two cents is, OP, if you really feel like having a child right now would ruin your life, then have the abortion. If, however, you think you might be able to make it work, then I think you should try.

Like the others have said, adoption is another option that needs to be considered.

How can you be impartial about abortion? Abortion is the killing of human beings - how can someone be impartial in their views on this?

You obviously have no clue about reality - "every decision is selfish" -What???
That's patently not true. Maybe you are referring to your own decisions, but that certainly does not apply to people generally.

You talk about "have the abortion", like "have a cup of tea" or something equally casual. Do you not realise you are just flippantly telling someone to kill someone else? What do you think abortion actually is? How can you think an abortionist using whatever barbaric technique to kill a baby is acceptable behaviour? Do you feel no compassion for the child at all? Because it is a human baby we are talking about. What's wrong with you people?

Nevyn

Any comments that do not address the issue that op has raises are off topic, and off topic comments can get you banned from this forum.

There are other forums for the discussion of the moral and social issues of abortion.

Personally I Think you should talk to your dr and should go talk to a cousellor about how you feel and what your options are.

http://www.positiveoptions.ie/telephonelist.html

You are 26 and married and would seem to have the support of your extended family and give that you are returning to college there are usually support services advailible.

Why not look into how your life might run and what suports there will be there for you if you have the child, it may be daunting and scarey but look into it.
Get as much information about all your options and the impact on them and make your decision.

It has to be your decision it is your life and your body.

Doctor Fell

astrofool wrote:

But it is based on your own belief that a baby before being born is a full person, which is an act of faith, much like most religions (this being your own). At what particular point is a person a person?

?

What do you mean a full person? Is a 4 year old a full person? A 15 yr old?
Is a 67 year old a full person? That's meaningless talk, and shame on you for using this to justify taking a human life.
Its not faith, its fact. Of course a baby is a full person, they are human. Any human at any stage of development is a full person. Have you never seen ultrasounds or the like? Do you know how biology works?
Human females become pregnant with.....human children. Big surprise.
If they are not "a person", perhaps you could explain what "they" or "we" are?
They are always human, just at different developmental stages.
All this "not a person" BS is just a desperate attempt to convince women its ok to kill their young. Unbelievable and tragic that people still fall for this sh*t.

Doctor Fell

Thaedydal wrote:

Personally I Think you should talk to your dr

Doctors swear the Hippocratic Oath, so any Dr who advises you to have an abortion is not acting in the best interests of yourself and certainly not your child, and they should be reported.

Thaedydal wrote:

it is your life and your body.

It is her life in that she exists and experiences life in her body. But abortion does not kill part of her body, it kills someone elses body. So I would disagree strongly with that sentiment - it is her life and her baby's life and body we are talking about. 2 persons, not one.

bug

spurious wrote:

In answer to the usual stuff that has been raised here....YES in my opinion an adult woman's life is much more valuable than that of a clump of cells and I make absolutely no apology for believing that - everytime.

Again, NO ONE has the right to tell this woman what to do - it is her body, her life, her decision.

I have no particular stand point on abortion. I personally believe its an individual judgement for an individual situation.
if I ever get pregnant, then I'll have some sort of incling as to what its like to be faced with the responsibility.

But I always have a little giggle when I look at opinions like the above.

A bunch of cells has a lot of potential value ask any biological research scientist

My point being in one fell swoop spurious has decided the value of potential life,.. life itself,.. and cell culture. How ridiculously funny.

Anyhow beside all that stuff...

maybe the OP just needs to take time out to think.
Maybe she didnt know that its possible to have both a life and a career and a child, and maybe she was asking just that.
she knows, you dont.

As for her mother's opinion, well, the mistake was telling the mother before she had made a choice herself.

This is something that needs to be talked over with immediatley with the husband (who so far doesnt seem to count)
And then the mother as seems to be needed.

to the op:
Its unfortunate that this happened considering you didnt want children, it's questionable what protection you were using considering you never wanted children and at such a delicate time in your life.

If an abortion is what you want, take some time out for yourself and decide what is important to you.
In all honesty though, situations change and your current ambition may not be what appeals to you in the long term,although it may seem like that now.
Unless you view yourself as the next nobel prize winner you may end up with one too many dissapointments and heartaches.

But the fact is that only you can make the choice really, only you know your husband and your parent/s and how you really feel.

Is this a seriously frightening interuption in your plans, or do you just not want kids?

LegacyUser

Doctor Fell wrote:

Doctors swear the Hippocratic Oath, so any Dr who advises you to have an abortion is not acting in the best interests of yourself and certainly not your child, and they should be reported. QUOTE]
I may be 2 weeks pregnant but I have just been diagnosed with cancer, I want to get the best treatment and have not told them that I may be pregnant for fear that they will not treat my cancer...where is this right? I do agree though that the Op should have her child, she is in a stable relationship and her child can be just brought into her future dreams.

Doctor Fell

bug wrote:

I have no particular stand point on abortion. I personally believe its an individual judgement for an individual situation.

Just curious, do you have a particular standpoint on murder?
If somebody gunned down somebody else, you wouldn't have a standpoint on it, right? Because it was an individual's judgment to shoot the other, in an individual situation.

By that logic every action by humans should be allowed, because it is always going to be an individual making judgments and acting on those judgments, in unique or individual situations.

Innocent people being killed cannot be excused by any argument of individual judgments or whatever else. Jesus, in that case I'll just kill anyone who inconveniences me or annoys me - that's my judgment in each individual situation. Its my life, don't you dare tell me I can't kill them.

JC 2K3

Thing is though, what is so terrible about the death or indeed the killing of a person? The fact that a (rather massive) bunch of cells that make up the human body die doesn't really mean much. The body itself is not important really. What is important is the fact that the person's personality has ceased to exist, ceased to affect other humans. The emotional attachment of certain people to a certain person is what breeds sadness(or other emotions) when a person dies. A baby in the womb is simply a body, a corpse, not a person with a personality. No one but possibly the mother has any emotional attachment to it in any way. If it is killed no pain is felt by anyone(except for the mother if she lives in a society which imposes guilt on her). The choice was made for it to be aborted and therefore it was not meant to be. That particular product of a certain male and female got very close to existing but in the end it just wasn't to be.

bug

Doctor Fell wrote:

Just curious, do you have a particular standpoint on murder?
If somebody gunned down somebody else, you wouldn't have a standpoint on it, right? Because it was an individual's judgment to shoot the other, in an individual situation.

By that logic every action by humans should be allowed, because it is always going to be an individual making judgments and acting on those judgments, in unique or individual situations.

yes, I think its called court, where all the facets of an individual situation are brought to trial.

Im not going to enter into a debate about abortion, most especially when being gunned down is compared to abortion. If theologists (sp) and biologists are still debating it. me and you arent going to shed any new light.

And my personal opinion on murder generally, probably wouldn't agree with most court decisions.. but thats a whole other issue.

Innocent people being killed cannot be excused by any argument of individual judgments or whatever else. Jesus, in that case I'll just kill anyone who inconveniences me or annoys me - that's my judgment in each individual situation. Its my life, don't you dare tell me I can't kill them.

I didnt say it can, still it happens.
Completely depends on what the executors value on the life is.
If your value is to kill everyone that annoys you, then you'll be brought to trial.

Society currently doesn't apply same to foetti regardless of potential value of human life.
Rightly or wrongly, as I said above I don't know, I don't have a particular standpoint.

Dave!

Thaedydal wrote:

Any comments that do not address the issue that op has raises are off topic, and off topic comments can get you banned from this forum.

THANK YOU! Was getting p*ssed off reading all the preaching

I think you should talk to your partner, OP. It's a bit unreasonable to tell him he's gonna be a daddy, then take that away from him. Find out his thoughts.

Other than the father, don't be swayed by other people's opinions! It's none of their business.

Good luck to you

jimmycrackcorm

I'd simply offer this opinion...

If you go ahead and have the baby regardless of how you view you present circumstances and desires for education then you will ultimately be happy.

If you go ahead and have an abortion then, regardless of any moral issues, it will always dwell on you and be there in the back of your mind. Ultimately it can only bring a temporary relief.

It seems to me like an ideal situation to be pregnant. You're married, you have family support, and you don't mention any financial problems. In that situation I'd have the baby. Yes it might disrupt your plans a bit, but when does it not? You can still study with a child and so on.

However the attitude here towards some of the posters is just naive IMO. Have any of you people condemning abortion been in homes where the kids are neglected or downright abused? Do you not know drug addicts and alcoholics who can't look after their kids properly and bring them up in poverty? I don't love the idea of abortion but a lot of you seem to think it's all going to be sunshine and rainbows once the baby is born. It IS a huge commitment for at least 18 years, and if you haven't any support it is tremendously difficult. Sometimes I think some of you see having a baby as a 'punishment' for not being careful enough or something, when really the one who is punished most is the child. One of my friends got pregnant and had an abortion, and I think it was for the best. She's totally irresponsible, not right in the head, and would have made an awful mother. And the truth is, the world is overpopulated as it is. There are thousands of unwanted children sitting in orphanages in Romania and Cambodia whose mothers didn't want or couldn't afford an abortion. I wonder how many of the people who say adoption is the ideal solution are rushing to adopt them?

Sam Vimes

spurious wrote:

In answer to the usual stuff that has been raised here....YES in my opinion an adult woman's life is much more valuable than that of a clump of cells and I make absolutely no apology for believing that - everytime.

Again, NO ONE has the right to tell this woman what to do - it is her body, her life, her decision.

what is a human but a clump of cells? its not her body. its her body and another one inside her that's entirely dependent on her. i agree that the fully grown woman is more important. if its a choice between the mother's life and unborn child's, i'll choose the mother's every time. but if its a choice between the child's life and the mother feeling bad for having given it up, i'll choose the child. nobody seems to realise that she does not have to spent 18 years raising it. thousands of people want chilidren but can't have them. people pay tens of thousands in china etc for children because they can't get them here because people choose to have their babies removed from their wombs rather than giving them to loving families like my own.

JC 2K3 wrote:

Roll the die. Shít randomly happens. What if the potential mother of a child had died in a car crash a few years before? What if the potential soulmate of the woman made a descision to move abroad before they met? There could have been a child born but it simply didn't happen that way. The choice to have an abortion or not is as random as any other circumstance. Its shot wasn't less important, it was non existant.

that's akin to a murderer going to court and saying "if i hadn't killed him he would have died eventually anyway." a person who has an abortion is consciously making a decision to have the baby removed. its not a random event. you're effectively excusing all bad things that a human can possibly do with that statement. you're saying that abortion, although a bad thing, can be excued because "its a random event". if abortion is a random event, is drunk driving? is child molestation? is genocide?

Faith wrote:

That's not the issue here.

However, to answer briefly, it would depend on why you gave me €1000.

well, you said every action is selfish. then you said that it might not be depending on why i gave the money. which is it?

bug wrote:

I have no particular stand point on abortion. I personally believe its an individual judgement for an individual situation.
if I ever get pregnant, then I'll have some sort of incling as to what its like to be faced with the responsibility.

But I always have a little giggle when I look at opinions like the above.

A bunch of cells has a lot of potential value ask any biological research scientist

well you quite clearly do have a stand point on abortion. and as i said above, what is a person if not a bunch of cells? is a person who's lost their arm in an accident somehow less valuable? they're also not officially "complete" people

Jazlynn Thankful Tariff wrote:

However the attitude here towards some of the posters is just naive IMO. Have any of you people condemning abortion been in homes where the kids are neglected or downright abused? Do you not know drug addicts and alcoholics who can't look after their kids properly and bring them up in poverty? I don't love the idea of abortion but a lot of you seem to think it's all going to be sunshine and rainbows once the baby is born. It IS a huge commitment for at least 18 years, and if you haven't any support it is tremendously difficult.

jesus f***ing christ can people get it into their heads that a woman does not have to dedicate 18 years of her life once she becomes pregnant? i've mentioned this word many times in this thread but you don't seem to have noticed it, so here it is again:adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption.

if a woman cannot take care of her child, she should give it to someone who can. she should not kill it

some people may consider this off topic but i don't. it scares me that i would never have existed if my natural mother felt the same way as some people in this thread. i would die a happy man if i could convince one person that adoption is a viable option.

edit: doubled the number of the word "adoption" in the post

Beruthiel

Commander Vimes wrote:

jesus f***ing christ can people get it into their heads that a woman does not have to dedicate 18 years of her life once she becomes pregnant? i've mentioned this word many times in this thread but you don't seem to have noticed it, so here it is again:adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption adoption.

if a woman cannot take care of her child, she should give it to someone who can. she should not kill it

Commander Vimes
Take your OTT emotive little rants to Humanities. Consider this your warning and I'll ban you for the next one.

From now on, anyone who posts in this thread will address the issues that the OP has brought up.

If you people wish to discuss the finer points of your views on abortion, take it to Humanities.

Sam Vimes

Beruthiel wrote:

Commander Vimes
Take your OTT emotive little rants to Humanities. Consider this your warning and I'll ban you for the next one.

From now on, anyone who posts in this thread will address the issues that the OP has brought up.

If you people wish to discuss the finer points of your views on abortion, take it to Humanities.

i apologise. i was drunk at the time

LegacyUser

Maybep wrote:

I may be 2 weeks pregnant but I have just been diagnosed with cancer, I want to get the best treatment and have not told them that I may be pregnant for fear that they will not treat my cancer...where is this right?

They can't treat your cancer if you're pregnant. Even having the tumour removed surgically will carry a risk to your unborn child. Having chemo or radiotherapy is completely out of the question if you are pregnant. Not to mention the fact you may not be physically strong enough to carry the pregnancy full term.

Even worse, pregnancy hormones act like growth accelerators on cancer tumours. So if you're thinking of waiting until the child is born, you really need to tell your consultant so he/she can arrange for you to have frequent scans to be sure the cancer isn't metastasizing or growing to an inoperable size,

In circumstances like this, Irish doctors can perform abortions.


To the OP: are you aware that most universities in Ireland have creche's now? I'm sure your mother would help out until the baby was old enough to be placed in creche while you are doing your work.

Faith

Faith wrote:

This thread isn't a debate about whether abortion is right or wrong, or when life begins. The OP is simply asking for impartial opinions.

Good point.


As for adoption versus abortion.There we reach the crux of the op's dilemma and why she's here for advice.Its obvious that if she wanted to go for an adoption,she cant go full term and have a baby without her husband knowing ergo that route could mean keeping the baby,several rows possibly(and we dont know the op's family circumstances so this is all speculation on my part) or it could mean that her husband persuades her that keeping the baby is the right thing to do, she loves the baby,discovers it doesnt have to damage her potential career and all is rosy,or he says go have the abortion/adoption.

The other related factor is the attachment to a baby being born on a decision to adopt it and the long term probably feelings that will always be there even if lurking in the background.


Abortion does have its downsides definitely in terms of the possibility or likelyhood of feelings of guilt sadness and loss.That may or may not be a big issue to the op if she is chinese and has a different mindset(due to the societal education there) to many westerners on the act of abortion.
It also normally has a downside if it is done by a married woman or by a girlfriend without the knowledge or agreement of the husband/father.

The downside being huge relationship issues may arise due to what might be perceived by the other partner as a betrayal or lack of trust-Again that may not be a factor in this case but if it wasnt a possibility, the op would be telling her husband/partner straight away I would think and discussing it with him.

As for my advice.I'd ultimately have to bring my upbringing baggage and values into that and say I wouldnt advise an abortion.
Personally I'd abhor the use of abortion in a decision such as this as I'd feel that it should be a decision to have to take only as the result of all other contraception methods having been used already and failed.
I'd ask the op not to take that as a criticism though because if you are chinese,I'd respect the fact that you may have a different mindset on that and understandably so.
My vote would be to immediately look into your career options and see if you can work them around a child-unless you never want a child in which case your option is straight foward enough.You dont keep the baby either via abortion or adoption.

Whether you feel the need to tell your husband, whether you know whether he wants children now or not all comes into play here I'm afraid.Only you know this.We can just give an opinion and they will be varied.

Darragh29

TBH I think the OP just dropped the post in here to get people fired up knowing that it is something that gets people going, I seriopusly question whether her concerns are genuine at all. It's funny that she apparently posted her situation here and hasn't posted since. Personally I disagree with abortion fully and completely but there are times when it is most repugnant to me and this occasion is one one them. In circumstances where a woman has been raped and is pregnant, to be honest I would find it hard to refuse that person an aboprtion, although I still believe abortion is wrong in all circumstances. I don't think the OP has the maturity to raise a child, she admits she doesn't want children at all but somehow is now pregnant. It's not difficult to prevent pregnancy these days, in fact it's easy. She comes across as a self centered individual who would be wholly unsuited to family life and the reality is that rearing children is about giving love, time and energy, but it is essentially about "giving" on many fronts. The OP seems more concerned about cloudy notions of "In fact I have many dreams", and "I want my career", more power to her. Either by way of adoption or abortion, the OP should deal with her problem (if it exists at all), because the fact that she is on here seeking the advice of strangers when her husband would appear to be unaware that she is pregnant, just hits the nail on the head with regard to her suitability as a mother.

Beruthiel

Darragh
If you cannot actually make a helpful comment in this thread, might I suggest that you not post in it any longer.

Darragh29

Beruthiel wrote:

Darragh
If you cannot actually make a helpful comment in this thread, might I suggest that you not post in it any longer.

My opinion is relevant to the OP. Please respect my opinion as I have yours, even if they are not in communion with each other.

Stabshauptmann

spurious wrote:

In answer to the usual stuff that has been raised here....YES in my opinion an adult woman's life is much more valuable than that of a clump of cells and I make absolutely no apology for believing that - everytime.

Again, NO ONE has the right to tell this woman what to do - it is her body, her life, her decision.

Her husband does. If you believe its a baby then you have to admit its his too; if you believe its a clump of cells - well, they're still half his.

At the very least dont have the abortion in secret, talk to your husband

carryboy

Originally Posted by Kaptain Redeye
Her husband does. If you believe its a baby then you have to admit its his too; if you believe its a clump of cells - well, they're still half his.

At the very least dont have the abortion in secret, talk to your husband

...and before you do, watch the movie Silent Scream.:)

Texas

OP Best of luck with your decision

carryboy wrote:

Silent Scream

80's scaremongering rubbish!!!

Fact: Most surgical abortions in the UK are carried out between 8-13 weeks. The foetus is between 1 to 2.8 inches in length.

Darragh29

Texas wrote:

OP Best of luck with your decision




80's scaremongering rubbish!!!

Fact: Most surgical abortions in the UK are carried out between 8-13 weeks. The foetus is between 1 to 2.8 inches in length.

Your point being...???

Victor

Darragh29 wrote:

Your point being...???

This thread is likely to be locked soon.

flamingo

Commander Vimes wrote:

you can take nine months out of your life, give a childless couple the greatest gift its possible to give and then get on with your plans for your life.

what a lovely way to put it!


EDIT: sorry, id 'quick reply'ed before finishing reading the thread and as such hadn't seen all the warnings to keep on-topic. (-:

smk135

jesus, tough thread....
Yet the only person who seems to be taking it lightly is actually the OP. Very strange...

anyway just to say that i agree with Darragh29 and Commander something and tbh anyone saying that this is not a moral issue/not the point in this thread can shut the f.ck up because this is an issue that concerns everyone personally and the OP asked...She is getting her answer, and the also maybe a taste of what she may feel after having a potential abortion...

If she does stop to think about the "foetus"/baby (doesn't mater to me, it's alive and the mother should be protecting it not trying to murder it...)and stop thinking about her oh so amazing dreams.

anyway, I really would love fo rthe OP to give an answer to her thread and tell us where the hell the Husband comes in in this for gods sake??!! Cause that is a bloody important factor here!

I do wish you the best of luck OP, it is your decsion, bt by the sounds of things i just think you need to mull over on it A LOT more...

daiixi

I'd rather someone abort a baby and regret it than bring an unwanted child into the world. My father had children because it's what my mother wanted and in any argument when I was growing up and my brother or I were in trouble it was mentioned. It's a wonderful feeling knowing that as much as he does love us, he never wanted us to exist. Why would anyone suggest that the OP subject a child to that?

Darragh29

daiixi wrote:

I'd rather someone abort a baby and regret it than bring an unwanted child into the world. My father had children because it's what my mother wanted and in any argument when I was growing up and my brother or I were in trouble it was mentioned. It's a wonderful feeling knowing that as much as he does love us, he never wanted us to exist. Why would anyone suggest that the OP subject a child to that?

Would you prefer to not be here at all then???

Victor

This thread is no longer about the OP's situation, so I am going to lock it. Apologies OP, feel free to opena new thread.

To the recent posters, this thread is not about you.