Anyone else thinking 'bout giving up using Boards?

Endymion

ecksor wrote:

We can rustle up 10k and I believe it would get us a nice enough lump of make-web-go horsepower, but what I know about hardware and prices you could write on the back of a stamp with a big marker.

Really? Thats a big jump. interesting.

ecksor

Well, we've been growing. We're not making megabucks, but we can afford to pay our way.

SimpleSam06

Carnivore wrote:

Flood the place with american tourist. And what happens to that buisness plan the first time someone is told to **** off. What about all the non-money spinning forums, are they dropped in this business model?

The modstick works as well on foreigners as it does for natives. I've seen a couple of forums of mixed Irish and American visitors, based in Ireland, which tick over fairly well, albeit with a bit more trolling than normal. And lets not forget thats just one idea, as I said; there are many more. I mean how much money does Google make from contextual advertising? Put the right adverts over the right forum and everyone wins, boards, users, and advertisers. If you have some religious aversion to advertising, there are still more ways to make money.

Carnivore wrote:

And they you have to give it back, with interest. You might want to look into spin solutions.

Yeah, read it again there like a good man. I wasn't talking about a grant, I was speaking in general.

Carnivore wrote:

I'm a computer and electronics engineer. I'd give my time and experience to this site for free if asked, regardless of recognition. However you hugely underestimate the difficulty involved in setting up a system like that from scratch. I take it you've no technical background?

You'd take it awfully wrong if you did. Business experience and technical experience do not preclude one another. I take it you have no experience in business then? And what, exactly, is a "computer engineer" when its at home? Because its not an EEng...

Carnivore wrote:

1) Technical skills would have to enclude more then "I can boot Linux". Personally I've no Idea how the software for this site works bare the basics, and i've been programming for years.

Are you telling me everyone in the Linux forum is a n00b dabbling amateur? Should we do a poll over there?

Carnivore wrote:

2) I'd Imagine there would be view people willing to work for free or even a nominal fee, on a site that employs business plans.

You say that with such horror. Whats wrong with earning money for your time, or having a business plan to work out the best way to do that? And people working for a nominal fee doesn't mean they are being abused or taken advantage of. A lot of people, most notably in the OSS communities do what they do for love of the work, not for profit. How many people use boards for free? Do you want to charge them all for taking advantage of the owners here?

Carnivore wrote:

3) It's not something you could do on the side. HAve you any idea how long it takes the admins to set up and test a single new server, let alone that system, they would be working for weeks.

You seem to have the martyr complex in spades here. No one is asking for your assistance, AFAIK.

Endymion

SimpleSam06 wrote:

The modstick works as well on foreigners as it does for natives. I've seen a couple of forums of mixed Irish and American visitors, based in Ireland, which tick over fairly well, albeit with a bit more trolling than normal. And lets not forget thats just one idea, as I said; there are many more. I mean how much money does Google make from contextual advertising? Put the right adverts over the right forum and everyone wins, boards, users, and advertisers. If you have some religious aversion to advertising, there are still more ways to make money.


Yeah, read it again there like a good man. I wasn't talking about a grant, I was speaking in general.

You'd take it awfully wrong if you did. Business experience and technical experience do not preclude one another. I take it you have no experience in business then? And what, exactly, is a "computer engineer" when its at home? Because its not an EEng...

Are you telling me everyone in the Linux forum is a n00b dabbling amateur? Should we do a poll over there?

I just don't think you've any technical experience, let alone in this field. For starters I fail to see how a knowledge of linux is a defining requirement. I'm sure some are amateurs and some are professionals on the linux. However posting on the linux forum in and of itself means nothing. Afaik, none of the admins are regulars on that forum. Also wrt what my technical background, believe what you want.

You say that with such horror. Whats wrong with earning money for your time, or having a business plan to work out the best way to do that? And people working for a nominal fee doesn't mean they are being abused or taken advantage of. A lot of people, most notably in the OSS communities do what they do for love of the work, not for profit. How many people use boards for free? Do you want to charge them all for taking advantage of the owners here?

There are people who contribute hours upon hours of their time to this site maintainance and development. They don't do it for money.

You mentioned OSS communities. This wouldn't be an Open scource project, it wouldn't be suitable to hundreds of people contributing pieces to it. Someone with a technical background could see that.

You seem to have the martyr complex in spades here. No one is asking for your assistance, AFAIK.

What has that got to do with what you quoted? It would takes allot of man hours to set up the system, pullmyfinger neglected that fact. The admins have to work for a living like, They can't just drop their lifes. If they had to employ someone to build and maintain the system it would cost.

SimpleSam06

Carnivore wrote:

I just don't think you've any technical experience, let alone in this field. For starters I fail to see how a knowledge of linux is a defining requirement. I'm sure some are amateurs and some are professionals on the linux. However posting on the linux forum in and of itself means nothing. Afaik, none of the admins are regulars on that forum.

Yes, your technical expertise is showing nicely there. If you don't know why Linux might be an important requirement when setting up servers, theres not a lot more that can be said to you.

Carnivore wrote:

Also wrt what my technical background, believe what you want.

I just asked what a computer engineer is... maybe I should Google it?

Carnivore wrote:

You mentioned OSS communities. This wouldn't be an Open scource project, it wouldn't be suitable to hundreds of people contributing pieces to it. Someone with a technical background could see that.

You're talking about open source development, which this is not. Theres shag all that needs to be developed, you're just talking about load balancing and upgrading capacity to keep up with what amounts to a DDOS from the nation of Ireland, coupled with backup and instant failover systems. But sure a computer engineer like yourself would already know that.

Carnivore wrote:

What has that got to do with what you quoted? It would takes allot of man hours to set up the system, pullmyfinger neglected that fact. The admins have to work for a living like, They can't just drop their lifes. If they had to employ someone to build and maintain the system it would cost.

Depends how you go about it, which is my point. There are ways of doing things, or would you rather carry on with things as they are? For bonus irony points, I got a database error when trying to post this.

ecksor

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Yes, your technical expertise is showing nicely there. If you don't know why Linux might be an important requirement when setting up servers, theres not a lot more that can be said to you.

We don't use Linux

I just asked what a computer engineer is... maybe I should Google it?

I believe he means that he's studying Computer Engineering.

Depends how you go about it, which is my point. There are ways of doing things, or would you rather carry on with things as they are? For bonus irony points, I got a database error when trying to post this.

Yeah, I made a bollix of something a while ago. Sorry about that.

FlutterinBantam

Shooite... I'm after dhriftin in to the nerd forum....sorry....sorry

/backs out slowly...

Endymion

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Yes, your technical expertise is showing nicely there. Its just "Linux", not "the Linux". If you don't know why Linux might be an important requirement when setting up servers, theres not a lot more that can be said to you.

you implied that posting on the linux forum was equilvant to be able to set up a server, it isn't

I just asked what a computer engineer is... maybe I should Google it?

maybe you should. type in "computer and electronic engineering" see the first result for ireland.

You're talking about open source development, which this is not. Theres shag all that needs to be developed, you're just talking about load balancing and upgrading capacity to keep up with what amounts to a DDOS from the nation of Ireland, coupled with backup and instant failover systems. But sure a computer engineer like yourself would already know that.

I never said development. Your points are moot.

Depends how you go about it, which is my point. There are ways of doing things, or would you rather carry on with things as they are? For bonus irony points, I got a database error when trying to post this.

I was pointing out that things arn't easy to pullmyfinger, if they where, they'd allready be done. I've no idea how the admins structure it, or what deals they are making, nor what equipment they are buying. Just that from past experience it takes allot of work from the admins to deploy a new server, let alone something like this.

aidan_walsh

Hey, how about we get the DB tables guys to fight the business model guys? Or each fight each other, make it a double fight night. Sell tickets, make it a boards event. Put the takings towards a new server

SimpleSam06

Carnivore wrote:

you implied that posting on the linux forum was equilvant to be able to set up a server, it isn't

Nonsense, I said, specifically, that it is a valuable skill pool.

Carnivore wrote:

maybe you should. type in "computer and electronic engineering" see the first result for ireland.

Right, a student.

Carnivore wrote:

I never said development. Your points are moot.

You were blathering on about OSS communities, millions of people jumping in and doing their own thing, which is what happens with development projects. If you had clue one what you were talking about you would know that this isn't a dev project. Look I'm not attacking you personally, but seriously, if you are going to start trying to shoot down ideas (and failing) you'd be better off to have constructive ideas of your own to follow up with.

ecksor wrote:

We don't use Linux

Might be an idea to look into that...

aidan_walsh wrote:

Hey, how about we get the DB tables guys to fight the business model guys?

Drawn flowcharts at dawn?

Stark

Tell us how you plan to organise the Linux community of boards to solve this task?

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Might be an idea to look into that...

Perhaps the Linux users' first task could be to run simulations of Board's performance on Windows vs Linux. I'm not sure how exactly they'll get an accurate benchmark, but of course, they're the ones with the valuable skills.

Endymion

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Nonsense, I said, specifically, that it is a valuable skill pool.

no you didn't. Liar.

Right, a student.

And you are? And your point is?

If you had clue one what you were talking about you would know that this isn't a dev project. Look I'm not attacking you personally, but seriously, if you are going to start trying to shoot down ideas (and failing) you'd be better off to have constructive ideas of your own to follow up with.

Never mentioned developement, and in fact you brought up OSS, I said it didn't apply. Stop confusing what I said with what you said.

Might be an idea to look into that...

So they don't use it, but somehow it's a vital skill the admins should be looking for in those they get help from.

ecksor

Stark wrote:

Perhaps the Linux users' first task could be to run simulations of Board's performance on Windows vs Linux.

We don't run Windows either!

oscarBravo

Um. Guys? boards.ie doesn't have a Linux forum.

ecksor

Ah, here's the Open Source mod now. Can you fix it?

Stark

ecksor wrote:

We don't run Windows either!

You're telling me boards is running on MacOS? I think we've just found your problem. We can all go home

AmigaOS ftw.

SimpleSam06

Stark wrote:

Tell us how you plan to organise the Linux community of boards to solve this task?

Well I don't propose organising anyone. However the admins might, err, ask them?

Stark wrote:

Perhaps the Linux users' first task could be to run simulations of Board's performance on Windows vs Linux. I'm not sure how exactly they'll get an accurate benchmark, but of course, they're the ones with the valuable skills.

Stress testing.

ecksor wrote:

We don't run Windows either!

FreeBSD Apache/1.3.37 (Unix) PHP/4.4.3 14-Aug-2006 82.195.136.250 Hosting 365 Limited 9th /24
FreeBSD Apache/1.3.33 (Unix) PHP/4.4.3 12-Aug-2006 82.195.136.250 Hosting 365 Limited 9th /24
FreeBSD Apache/1.3.33 (Unix) PHP/4.4.0 10-Aug-2006 82.195.136.250 Hosting 365 Limited 9th /24
FreeBSD Apache/2.0.54 (FreeBSD) PHP/4.4.0 9-Aug-2006 82.195.136.250 Hosting 365 Limited 9th /24
FreeBSD Apache/1.3.33 (Unix) PHP/4.4.0 26-Jun-2006 82.195.136.250 Hosting 365 Limited 9th /24
FreeBSD Apache/2.0.54 (FreeBSD) PHP/4.4.0 30-May-2006 82.195.136.250 Hosting 365 Limited 9th /24
FreeBSD Apache/1.3.33 (Unix) PHP/4.4.0 22-May-2006 82.195.136.250 Hosting 365 Limited 9th /24
FreeBSD Apache/2.0.54 (FreeBSD) PHP/4.4.0 16-May-2006 82.195.136.250 Hosting 365 Limited 9th /24
FreeBSD Apache/1.3.33 (Unix) PHP/4.4.0 9-May-2006 82.195.136.250 Hosting 365 Limited 9th /24
FreeBSD Apache/2.0.54 (FreeBSD) PHP/4.4.0 5-May-2006 82.195.136.250 Hosting 365 Limited 9th /24

Indeed!

SimpleSam06

oscarBravo wrote:

Um. Guys? boards.ie doesn't have a Linux forum.

UNIX forum, complete with 1st Linux meet up stickied. Close enough, I daresay.

aidan_walsh

MacOS

OS X Server is actually supoosed to be quite the nifty little package.

FreeBSD

Aww, I was hoping that we would learn that boards has been running on a PalmOS PDA all this time

Stark

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Well I don't propose organising anyone. However the admins might, err, ask them?

And ask them what exactly? What would they ask them that they haven't being asking the vBulletin developers and other online resources for the past year or so?

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Stress testing.

I was going to say that I could see no ****ing way that the admins would let them loose on the live servers, but fair enough if they want to setup a replica of boards.ie and hammer it with simulated data.

Anyway, I reckon intuitively that FreeBSD is more than a match for Linux.

SimpleSam06

Stark wrote:

And ask them what exactly? What would they ask them that they haven't being asking the vBulletin developers and other online resources for the past year or so?

Title of this discussion is "Anyone else thinking 'bout giving up using Boards?", and the reason for this is server performance. Theres a lot more to performance than just the application. Some hardware guys wouldn't go amiss either, although the lads hereabouts might be more skilled at getting Doom 3 up and running on your servers!

Stark wrote:

I was going to say that I could see no ****ing way that the admins would let them loose on the live servers, but fair enough if they want to setup a replica of boards.ie and hammer it with simulated data.

Yup.

Stark wrote:

Anyway, I reckon intuitively that FreeBSD is more than a match for Linux.

The right tool for the right job, I reckon. Win2k is better for some things than other OSes, OSX better for other tasks. I'm not an OS Zealot.

sceptre

SimpleSam06 wrote:

You get a grant from the local council or other body (I'd advise tourist board) who will give you half price on equipment up to about 16k or so, if you have a reasonably decent business plan, and aren't afraid of a lot of waiting and calling. Then you get a loan from the bank for 16k based on the strength of said grant, and give half back straight away courtesy of the grant.

What kind of an idiot would go to the trouble of getting an 8k grant, followed by a 16k loan, to use the 8k grant to immediately pay back 8k of the loan (leaving a pool of 16k) when one could just look for an 8k grant and an 8k loan (leaving a pool of 16k)? Perhaps I'm not familiar with shufflefeet-and-eyes economics but the former is just daft.

And yes, I'm sorry to everyone for even referring to this but as we all know I've got a problem with idiocy.

RuggieBear

amp wrote:

Ecks baby, need a sub to get another Learjet. I couldn't fit enough hookers in the last one and you know how DeV get's through them. I'll pay you back once I sell off the excess coke.

Wasn't that the John DeLorean business model...?

WhiteWashMan

RuggieBear wrote:

Wasn't that the John DeLorean business model...?

NO NO NO NO NO NO, well, yes.

6th

PullMyFinger! wrote:

If anyone asked me to reccomend a site for Irish opinions and reference Boards was always the first Id mention, at one stage it was as usefull as Google. Not anymore.

So are you still thinking about leaving? Oh and can you "reccomend a site for Irish opinions and reference"?

oscarBravo

ecksor wrote:

Ah, here's the Open Source mod now. Can you fix it?

I'm glad you asked. As should be self-evident to anyone who's ever set up a home page on teh interweb, all you have to do is, um...

Oh no, wait a sec, that was it: not a clue. I've always worked on the assumption that if fixing the performance issues was a straightforward problem, they'd have been fixed by now. I've also assumed that the people who run this site know more about running this site than people (like me) who don't run this site, which is why I've generally refrained from poking my oar in with pseudo-helpful suggestions.

But maybe that's just me.

SimpleSam06 wrote:

UNIX forum, complete with 1st Linux meet up stickied. Close enough, I daresay.

It depends how you define "close", I suppose. Maybe I should start referring to myself as the mod of the Apache forum - it is, after all, one of the most popular Open Source applications.

SimpleSam06

sceptre wrote:

What kind of an idiot would go to the trouble of getting an 8k grant, followed by a 16k loan, to use the 8k grant to immediately pay back 8k of the loan (leaving a pool of 16k) when one could just look for an 8k grant and an 8k loan (leaving a pool of 16k)? Perhaps I'm not familiar with shufflefeet-and-eyes economics but the former is just daft.

And yes, I'm sorry to everyone for even referring to this but as we all know I've got a problem with idiocy.

You're not the only one that has a problem with idiocy. Thats how the grant system works, had you applied for any grant ever you would know that. Or you could STFU and listen to someone who has, successfully, like a good lad, and lay off the abuse.

SimpleSam06

oscarBravo wrote:

But maybe that's just me. It depends how you define "close", I suppose. Maybe I should start referring to myself as the mod of the Apache forum - it is, after all, one of the most popular Open Source applications.

Six of the seven stickies on that are Linux related, directly. But hey, its your forum, what do I know.

oscarBravo

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Six of the seven stickies on that are Linux related, directly.

Ergo, Linux is the most popular Unix-like OS among boards.ie users. Not in itself a good reason to alienate users of *BSD, Solaris, AIX et al.

SimpleSam06 wrote:

But hey, its your forum, what do I know.

Well, it's not my forum, so - what do you know?

SimpleSam06

oscarBravo wrote:

Ergo, Linux is the most popular Unix-like OS among boards.ie users. Not in itself a good reason to alienate users of *BSD, Solaris, AIX et al.

So would you define six of the seven stickies being Linux related as "close enough" or not?

oscarBravo wrote:

Well, it's not my forum, so - what do you know?

Err so why are you here telling me what it is and isn't?