Weekend Prem Thread

Necronomicon

Probably the most enjoyable game of the season so far! Newcastle's defence...it speaks volumes that the crowd gave anxious roars whenever Harper played it short to Bramble or Moore. I remember one instance when Moore played a bad ball to someone on the edge of his own box and it was easily intercepted by Osman. Newcastle really are vulnerable there. On the plus side for them, Milner was fantastic. (And plus side for United fans, Rossi was bright in the brief spell he got on the pitch).

I was disappointed that Johnson didn't get on the scoresheet, I just bought him in Fantasy Football. He'll probably go 10 games without scoring now, just the way FF seems to go for me

Oh and I had to laugh at the Newcastle goal. First, how the linesman got it so wrong. Ameobi was miles offside. But even funnier, how Ameobi took the ball under control, looked over at the linesman, and still had time to look back at the ball and finish it.

MrJoeSoap

Parker man-of-the-match, hero. Best English midfielder at the moment, bar none.

gandalf

Nice to see Cahill scoring as well. Good weekend for my ff team with 51 points and 3 players to play yet

Fighting Irish

Anyone else think Solskjaer and Rooney should start up front for a few games and see how they get on?

tvnutz

Fighting Irish wrote:

Anyone else think Solskjaer and Rooney should start up front for a few games and see how they get on?

I think Saha is doing grand,no reason to pick Solskjaer over him. Ole is an amazing player but I don't think he is fully fit anymore,he could do the job for maybe half of a game.

The people who should be dropped are Fletcher,Ferdinand, Richardson and Oshea. How was Ferdinand 30 million? Vidic and Brown in centre defense with Heinze and Neville full backs. Richardson is a joke,he is simply not good enough for United. Fletcher and Oshea are slighty better but again,just not good enough.

I always thought 18 million for Carrick was a joke,but I thought he was a good player. Now I have my doubts. If you watch him against Reading,all he does is stand in one position in midfield and stick his hand up in the air asking for the ball. He put his hand up so many times,he didn't make any runs and half the time her was marked. He never pushes forward,I know he is a defensive midfielder but I don't think I ever see him the opposition's box unless it is a corner.

United are just not good enough to win the league this season. Maybe the Carling Cup again,but thats it.

Attractive Nun

Hmm, Rossi displayed more than I thought he had today i.e. a good touch and a tidy finish. I know it was only 10 minutes, but still, bring him back in January!

Villain

That linesman in the Newcastle game that got it so wrong the first goal had better not get another game in the premier league this season, shocking shocking decision.

kinaldo

Desperate result for Newcastle but there were a few positives like the performances of Milner and Parker, and Zoggy in the first half. I don't know what we're gonna do with that defence but it won't survive the season without a few January additions.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Dying to see the ratings on Sky later, himself and Martins have been so woeful its untrue.

Very harsh and slightly exaggerated I'm sure. His finishing was poor today by any striker's standards but his overall contribution was good. He used his pace to great effect and even managed to get on the end of one of his own stray passes forcing a vital block from Naysmith. Overall he gave an exciting performance without the end product but I'm confident the goals will soon follow.

Roddy23

I think we've got a stalker on our hands.....

Parker man-of-the-match, hero

Have to say was well happy with the Arsenal yesterday, listening to it on the radio, I was a bit uneasy at half time, thought it was gonna be another case of 50 shots on goal, with nothing in return. Hopefully now we can catch up with Chelsea, but it does look ominous even at this stage, with Chelsea grinding out the results.

MrJoeSoap

Roddy23 wrote:

I think we've got a stalker on our hands.....

Not a stalker yet, but certainly looking for property in the Newcastle area.

Pepe LeFrits

Roddy23 wrote:

Have to say was well happy with the Arsenal yesterday, listening to it on the radio, I was a bit uneasy at half time, thought it was gonna be another case of 50 shots on goal, with nothing in return. Hopefully now we can catch up with Chelsea, but it does look ominous even at this stage, with Chelsea grinding out the results.

Although things are looking up, unless Chelsea have a disaster (by their standards), it won't happen this year. The team is showing its tremendous potential at the moment, but there are a lot of new players there that have yet to fully 'gel', and there is still a general lack of cutting edge. I certainly think they can stay in touch, but that's all for now.

Necronomicon

Argh, I make David James my captain and he concedes his first goal!

I missed the goal though, anyone know who scored?

Aquos76

Sweet shot from Kevin Nolan

Villain

What happened with Diouf at half time?

wheres me jumpa

ANyone see the interview with Jeff Stelling and Big Sam, Jeff asked him straight out, "Have you ever taken a bung?". Very dissappointed with JS.

Villain

What was his reply?

wheres me jumpa

Something along the lines of "Your right out of order...". Jeff moved on but Sam came back to it again. Just thought it showed Jeff Stelling up a bit, very unprofessional.

Fighting Irish

tvnutz wrote:

I think Saha is doing grand,no reason to pick Solskjaer over him. Ole is an amazing player but I don't think he is fully fit anymore,he could do the job for maybe half of a game.

The people who should be dropped are Fletcher,Ferdinand, Richardson and Oshea. How was Ferdinand 30 million? Vidic and Brown in centre defense with Heinze and Neville full backs. Richardson is a joke,he is simply not good enough for United. Fletcher and Oshea are slighty better but again,just not good enough.

I always thought 18 million for Carrick was a joke,but I thought he was a good player. Now I have my doubts. If you watch him against Reading,all he does is stand in one position in midfield and stick his hand up in the air asking for the ball. He put his hand up so many times,he didn't make any runs and half the time her was marked. He never pushes forward,I know he is a defensive midfielder but I don't think I ever see him the opposition's box unless it is a corner.

United are just not good enough to win the league this season. Maybe the Carling Cup again,but thats it.

Agreed, and i also think Gary Fu(king Neville should stay back he runs up the line way to much and by doing so doesn't make any big difference, he seems to always pass the ball backwards and then has to chase back if united lose posession, im suprised fergie hasn't told him to stay back :rolleyes:

wheres me jumpa

Fighting Irish wrote:

Agreed, and i also think Gary Fu(king Neville should stay back he runs up the line way to much and by doing so doesn't make any big difference, he seems to always pass the ball backwards and then has to chase back if united lose posession, im suprised fergie hasn't told him to stay back :rolleyes:

Gary Neville is one of our best crossers. His pressing forward down the right is one of the biggest assests he brings to the team.

Nalz

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Gary Neville is one of our best crossers. His pressing forward down the right is one of the biggest assests he brings to the team.

spot on

wheres me jumpa

Trilla wrote:

spot on

Agreed.

Vokes

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Something along the lines of "Your right out of order...". Jeff moved on but Sam came back to it again. Just thought it showed Jeff Stelling up a bit, very unprofessional.

Saw that. Was very suprised he asked it. Big Sam put his big foot down right away. Kudos

Lemlin

Great win for Blackburn at the Riverside and two wins in a row have lifted the team right up the table.

Mad Dog

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Parker man-of-the-match, hero. Best English midfielder at the moment, bar none.

You're having a laugh

I think this fella and this fella might have something to say about that and even this fella in Parkers position is a better player.

Mad Dog

wheres me jumpa wrote:

ANyone see the interview with Jeff Stelling and Big Sam, Jeff asked him straight out, "Have you ever taken a bung?". Very dissappointed with JS.

I saw this last night and although it was a tongue in cheek question Big Sam told him he was out of order for asking that it as he had been told before interview not to mention it. The look on his face when Sam shot him down was priceless. He looked very uncomfortable when he went back to studio to talk to Sherwood and Phil Brown.

I think it showed that JS is not a great man for the live interviews but his quality on soccer Saturday cannot be questioned. The problem was he likes to have a laugh and a joke with the lads on Saturday which is brilliant at times but last night was not the time or place for such a question and fair play to Sam for giving the answer he did and not walking off which I'd say a lot of other managers would have done.

MrJoeSoap

Mad Dog wrote:

You're having a laugh

I think this fella and this fella might have something to say about that and even this fella in Parkers position is a better player.

I'm having a laugh? Hargreaves > Parker? Rofl!

Btw, what is "Parkers position"?

Mad Dog

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I'm having a laugh? Hargreaves > Parker? Rofl!

Btw, what is "Parkers position"?

Each of the players above is in the England squad for a reason and that reason is they are all better than your mate Parker who if I'm not mistaken was any good CFC would not have let him go. Although a very good midfielder he is not in the same bracket as the above mentioned.

Good players always look great in poor teams.

Originally Posted by MrJoeSoap
Parker man-of-the-match, hero. Best English midfielder at the moment, bar none.

I think you may have answered your own question there :eek:

Jivin Turkey

Mad Dog wrote:

Each of the players above is in the England squad for a reason and that reason is they are all better than your mate Parker

Ever hear of Theo Walcott?

Parker had glandalour fever for a few months last year and still played outstanding. He then got an injury towards the end of last season which was the principle reason of him being omitted from the England WC squad.

Mad Dog wrote:

who if I'm not mistaken was any good CFC would not have let him go.

Ever hear of William Gallas? Eidur Gudjohnsen? Damien Duff? Hernan Crespo?

Need I go on?

Mad Dog wrote:

Although a very good midfielder he is not in the same bracket as the above mentioned.

Parker is a better player than Hargreaves. A different player to Lampard or Gerrard who I would probably choose over Parker.

Parker should definitely start for England. Whenever he has played with reasonable regularity at Charlton, Chelsea and Newcastle he has been outstanding.

Mad Dog wrote:

Good players always look great in poor teams.

Poor players can look good in great teams.



I think you may have answered your own question there :eek:[/QUOTE]

MrJoeSoap

Mad Dog wrote:

Each of the players above is in the England squad for a reason and that reason is they are all better than your mate Parker who if I'm not mistaken was any good CFC would not have let him go. Although a very good midfielder he is not in the same bracket as the above mentioned.

Good players always look great in poor teams.

I've watched Liverpool on at least 5 occasions this season and Gerrard has not been his usual self. Himself and Lampard have shown over and over again that they don't play well together for England, and its definitely time for a change.

Parker was MOTM against Everton on Sunday, best player on the field by some distance.

Against Liverpool (and Gerrard...) a few days earlier he was miles ahead of the rest, with an outstanding display only topped by Alonso's great goal and through ball for the first goal.

Two weeks ago against Fulham he put in what I still consider to be the best performance of any player in the Premiership this season, scoring a whopping 9.2 on the Sky ratings and having numerous articles in the Sunday papers (1)(2)(3)(4) singing his praises. He left the pitch on 81 minutes with the score at 1-0. Newcastle lost 2-1.

"It was no coincidence that the former Chelsea midfielder had left the pitch seconds before McBride's 82nd-minute strike after turning in an inspirational individual display."

As well as that, both Jamie Redknapp and Peter Reid said he must be a certainty for the next England squad, and Glenn Roeder said of him (even before his MOTM performance on Sunday...)

"As you know McClaren was at the game on Wednesday and I think he'll be coming to the game on Sunday," said Roeder ahead of Newcastle's clash with Everton at St James' Park tomorrow. I'm sure that will raise the issue of Scott Parker playing for England.

"The way he is playing at the moment, if he is not given a chance to be taken into the squad now I don't know what else Scotty has to do.

"I think Scott has been outstanding and consequently maybe Emre has not had a mention of how well he has played simply because they all have eyes for Scott."

Mad Dog

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Ever hear of Theo Walcott?

Who mentioned Walcott as a midfielder, I missed that

Ever hear of William Gallas? Eidur Gudjohnsen? Damien Duff? Hernan Crespo?

Granted Gallas is quality but he no longer wanted to be at Chelsea but the other three were allowed go by Chelsea for other differing reasons

Parker is a better player than Hargreaves. A different player to Lampard or Gerrard who I would probably choose over Parker.

Parker should definitely start for England. Whenever he has played with reasonable regularity at Charlton, Chelsea and Newcastle he has been outstanding.

Methinks you have fallen into the trap of reading the crap in the British media about Hargreaves which was proven as such during the world cup and he was by far the best English midfielder on show through the tournament and is playing for a better team than Newcastle week in week out and playing in the champions league which he has won so I think that qualifies him as a great player.

Poor players can look good in great teams.

I think you may have answered your own question there :eek:

Please elaborate

MrJoeSoap

Mad Dog wrote:

Methinks you have fallen into the trap of reading the crap in the British media about Hargreaves which was proven as such during the world cup and he was by far the best English midfielder on show through the tournament and is playing for a better team than Newcastle week in week out and playing in the champions league which he has won so I think that qualifies him as a great player.

I think you might have fallen into the trap of judging a player on a handful of games. :rolleyes:

Mad Dog

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I think you might have fallen into the trap of judging a player on a handful of games. :rolleyes:

Mad Dog wrote:

Although a very good midfielder

Where did I say he wasn't a good player

MrJoeSoap

Mad Dog wrote:

Where did I say he wasn't a good player

Where did I say you said he wasn't a good player?

PS - I was talking about Hargreaves in post #82.

Mad Dog

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Where did I say you said he wasn't a good player?

PS - I was talking about Hargreaves in post #82.

So what you are saying is that I'm judging Hargreaves just on the world cup.

Wrong......If you read my post earlier it said he is with a better team than Newcastle and has won the champions league so where is that judging him on a few games and he has proven himself over a number of years

MrJoeSoap

Mad Dog wrote:

So what you are saying is that I'm judging Hargreaves juston the world cup.

Well, do you watch Munich week-in, week-out? I'm not saying "just the World Cup". The point you make that he plays for a better team than Newcastle is absolutely pointless.

Arguing for Hargreaves is pretty pointless at the moment anyway, given his current situation.

Mad Dog

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Well, do you watch Munich week-in, week-out? I'm not saying "just the World Cup".

Arguing for Hargreaves is pretty pointless at the moment anyway, given his current situation.

Agreed on your last point.....! Not a fan of the way he has conducted himself recently :mad:

MrJoeSoap

Mad Dog wrote:

Not a fan of the way he has conducted himself recently :mad:

How has he conducted himself?

eirebhoy

Hargreaves has mainly a backup player in his time at Bayern.

kinaldo

Agree with MrJoaSoap, Parker is way better than Hargreaves. That said I do get to see Parker play week in week out but his consistency, class and dedication are all astounding and there's not many midfileders I'd swap him for, certainly not Hargreaves who's never overly impressed me.

Chucky the tree

Mad Dog wrote:

So what you are saying is that I'm judging Hargreaves just on the world cup.

Wrong......If you read my post earlier it said he is with a better team than Newcastle and has won the champions league so where is that judging him on a few games and he has proven himself over a number of years

so has Djimi Traore.

Mad Dog

Chucky the tree wrote:

so has Djimi Traore.

Go away unless you're gonna talk sense :mad:

Chucky the tree

Mad Dog wrote:

Go away unless you're gonna talk sense :mad:

My point is using the fact that a player has won the champions league as a way of supporting your point on how good a player Hargreeves is, is not a great way of doing it.

Jivin Turkey

Mad Dog wrote:

Who mentioned Walcott as a midfielder, I missed that

No one. My point was that just because a player makes the England squad does not necessarily make him any better or worse than one who didn't.

In other words just because Parker didn't make the England WC squad (even though he was unavailable for Gods sake!), that does not necessarily make him a worse player than those who did.

Mad Dog wrote:

Granted Gallas is quality but he no longer wanted to be at Chelsea but the other three were allowed go by Chelsea for other differing reasons

Parker left because he wanted to leave, not because Chelsea wanted him out.

Again this blows holes in your arguement that "if he was any good CFC wouldn't have let him go". Chelsea have let plenty of quality players go, that list is hardly the full one.

Mad Dog wrote:

Methinks you have fallen into the trap of reading the crap in the British media about Hargreaves which was proven as such during the world cup and he was by far the best English midfielder on show through the tournament and is playing for a better team than Newcastle week in week out and playing in the champions league which he has won so I think that qualifies him as a great player.

Hargreaves is now the darling of the English media so I fail to see your point. They were the ones valuing him at £17M for crying out loud!

So what if he performed the best out the English midfielders? They were all sub-standard, he was the best of a bad bunch. He put in one very good game, and was unremarkable in the other two he played.

Darren Fletcher plays in a better team than Newcastle and plays in the CL, does that qualify him as a "great player"?

Mad Dog wrote:

Please elaborate

It's easy for a player to look better when surrounded by quality, like Hargreaves is at Munich and England. Parker does not have the same level of quality around him but has been incredible for both Newcastle and Charlton.

PHB

Hargreaves has mainly a backup player in his time at Bayern.

Pretty odd definition of a backup player, considering in 4 years Ballack played 107 times in the league while Hargreaves played 92 (and the drop was just from last year). He has a similar record when it comes to European comps.

In reality Hargreaves only dropped off from his regular playing spot last year. He has been a regular starter for Bayern for 5 years in total

----

It's easy for a player to look better when surrounded by quality, like Hargreaves is at Munich and England. Parker does not have the same level of quality around him but has been incredible for both Newcastle and Charlton.

At the same time it's easier to look better in a ****e team. See Hargreaves above, it wasn't that he was amazing, it's that the rest were ****e.
The difference?
Hargreaves played well during his time at a top club.
Parker couldn't make it in a top club and had to go back down to a place where he could shine.

I don't think there is much difference between Hargreaves and Parker personally, but Hargreaves has done more at the levels he has played at.

eirebhoy

PHB wrote:

Pretty odd definition of a backup player, considering in 4 years Ballack played 107 times in the league while Hargreaves played 92 (and the drop was just from last year). He has a similar record when it comes to European comps.

In only one season at Bayern has he started more than 20 games. He's obviously going to play a bit being probably their 12th choice player but I don't think he was part of their 1st choice 11.

kinaldo

This little comp may be enough to swing the balance in favour of Parker:

Parker vs Liverpool 10/10

el rabitos

parkers problem is he's just an old school type midfielder, he's a good passer, good at winning the ball back, ok going forward, he's a good grafter.

his problem (IMO) is that he's not a specialist in any particular midfield position.

he's not as good a defencive midfielder as hargraeves, he's not better going forward than lampard/gerrard and he's not as good a passer as carrick. but he's good at all those things, he's just not better than the players that are already there and specialise in their particular role.

it doesnt make parker any less of a player, its just why he didnt fit in at chelsea and why he's better off at a team thats usually on the backfoot, it exposes his better atributes, ie. his grafting and fight for the ball

Jivin Turkey

Hargreaves is a most unremarkable player. I don't understand why people see him as a specialist defensive midfidler. He is a utility man and has played all across the middle for England (and I'm sure Bayern) as well as at full back.

When have you ever seen him put in a crunching tackle? That's what DM's do. His greatest attribute is his engine which allows him to cover huge amounts of ground during games, and cover defensively where a lot of other players can't. His goal scoring record speaks for itself. Five goals in seven seasons at Bayern.

Parker is a far superior player, and while I can't argue that Hargreaves has done it at a higher level, that is only because Parker hasn't got the chance as of yet to do it as regularly. At Chelsea he never looked out of his depth in the CL (where he was regularly played by both CR and JM). He has much more to his game than the bland Hargreaves.

If it weren't for the ever-lasting and immortal force of Makelélé at Chelsea I'd have no doubt that Parker would have been a vital cog in their championship winning sides recently and for years to come. Parker left because he knew his chances would always be limited being back up to one of the best midfielders in the game.

MrJoeSoap

kinaldo wrote:

This little comp may be enough to swing the balance in favour of Parker:

Parker vs Liverpool 10/10

Thats brilliant cheers. I'm gonna do one similar for the Everton game.

el rabitos wrote:

he's not as good a defencive midfielder as hargraeves,

:eek: Watch the video above, PLEASE!

its just why he didnt fit in at chelsea and why he's better off at a team thats usually on the backfoot, it exposes his better atributes, ie. his grafting and fight for the ball

He didn't fit in at Chelsea because he was given Mourinho's shackles (i.e. - asked to sit and play like Makelele) most of the time. He's at his best when he is given license to roam, create chances and score goals. He's allowed do this at Newcastle, has been made captain, and is now dominating the game in every match they play.

el rabitos

MrJoeSoap wrote:

:eek: Watch the video above, PLEASE!

i did watch it, i also saw the game. i dont think he's a better defencive midfielder than hargreaves, they can both win back the ball well, i just think hargreaves is better at restarting his teams attack, a better passer, better vision, more comfortable on the ball...

theres more to parkers game than hargreaves' of course, but hargreaves is the better defensive midfielder.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

He didn't fit in at Chelsea because he was given Mourinho's shackles (i.e. - asked to sit and play like Makelele) most of the time. He's at his best when he is given license to roam, create chances and score goals. He's allowed do this at Newcastle, has been made captain, and is now dominating the game in every match they play.

he didnt fit into chelsea's team because makelele is a better defencive midfielder, lampard is a better attacker, then they had cole and tiago playing in the other midfield spot...he was obviously deemed surplus to requirements, thats polite talk for your not good enough for us and u can leave.

no offence to newcastle fans, but a genuinely good player and hard worker (which parker is) would stand out in that team like a sore thumb

i think he's a good player, theres just better players than him playing for england right now, he should probably be in the squad though