BA In Computer Science

_Ganondorf_

Hey, I'm a 6th year student at the moment- thinking of the studying the arts degree in Computer Science in UCD.. My reasoning for this is that:

- I'd like to study as little maths or physics as possible, as the BA seems to have alot less maths

- I have broad interests, and don't want to limit myself to studying just a science-y degree, because I feel my main strengths lie in the written word and articulation and stuff (But I still want to study computer science, I think)

- I'd rather have more options available after college. (I've been told a BA in Comp. Sci. is just as valid as a BSc, so it'l be good to have the extra subjects,no?)

I'd just like to hear from anyone studying either the BA or the BSc in Computer Science, and what your thoughts on it are? What are the main elements of the syllabus etc? (I'm very interested in studying programming, what languages are thought and how significant are they to the course etc?). And also, as regards the BA, what subjects are you combining it with, or which do you think would be the most usefull? (My ideas like history and english I suppose aren't really ideal combinations perhaps)

So yeah, just any info on Computer Science at UCD would be helpfull, thanks for any you can offer!! thanks

BKtje

Maths is pretty core to Comp Sci unfortunately (well algorithims which have heavy basing in maths).

In first year doing the Bsc you got to do comp architecture, logic, a random science subject and 3 generals science maths modules as well as what the BA students do (Programming, Software Project, Algorithims). You can of course choose any of the BSc subjects as an elective if theres something of interest.

Logic in particular helpes prepare you for some of the things you'll run into in 2nd year (i think), as would comp architecture (which is quite easy if you do the continous assesment and have any interest in it). That said there are plenty who are doing a BA and seem to get on fine without em

Programming language is Java which is what you'll be doing the whole way through (i think?) and is a major part of comp science in UCD (3rd/4th years wanna correct me here?).

I've no idea if a BA and BSc are worth the same to employers but it would surprise me slightly considering the BSc gives a much better grounding in the maths aspect of comp sci which will help you understand the why along with the how (least in theory ).

Remember that any subject you do in ucd, you can now do a completly different subject through your electives. eg Comp Sci & Japanese, Geology and business etc etc

Dave!

Hey there!

Here's a rather huge thread about the course, that I started a year ago
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=290455

Very helpful responses in there!

I'll answer some of your questions later, not arsed now But I will say that BA Comp Science seems to me to be mainly the good parts of Computer Science (ie. very little maths, lots of programming -- although it's only java, and I believe the other course does C also).

I've just finished 1st year (takin a year out now), and these are the modules you do in it, and a bit of a run-down...

Semester 1
1. Introduction to Programming I - Easy class! Just go to all your practicals, the first few are ridiculously easy, the last few are a bit tricky if I remember correctly. The teaching assistants are great help, and some of them just do the whole program for you if you're lucky Just keep nodding and acting like you know what you're doing: "yeah, and then you -- exactly...". It's a grand class, interesting and simple. I think I got an A1 in this, and I'm pretty dumb. The exam is just like the practicals for the most part, only you write the code by hand. Fintan is the lecturer's name and he's a nice guy and puts up good notes.

2. Algorithmic Problem Solving - I HATED THIS MODULE!!! :mad: If you like puzzles and sh*t then you might enjoy this. I do not. It's the closest you get to maths in 1st year BA CSc, but it's not like algebra and stuff. Just pay attention from the start and don't give up on the problem sheets! I only went to 2 tutorials for this and didn't find them helpful at all. But you should go and see what you think. I struggled alot with this module and think I got a D3 or somethin jammy like that in the end. The problem sheets count for like 60% of your grade though. Oh and you can find alot of the answers on the internet, if you're a good googler, lol..... I did use them, and they helped me to understand the problems (ie. having the question and the answer, and working my way through it). The exam is just like the problem sheets, alot of the questions were repeated too. Can't remember the lecturer's name, but he's a nice bloke, and is VERY softly spoken. SIT DOWN THE FRONT!!! EVEN WITH THE NERDS!!! Actually sit a row or 2 behind them ¬_¬

Semester 2
3. Introduction to Programming II - Just a continuation of the 1st semester module. It gets trickier but also more interesting. Mess around with the code in your own time if you're so inclined, and it'll help you understand it (ie. make some programs of your own). Think I got an A in this too, lots of people did. I thank Fintan for that.

4. Software Engineering Project - GAH! Okay... "DIFFICULT" module! The lecturer's name is Joe Kiniry, great lecturer, very funny, very interesting, very American. But he seems to think or expect Irish students to be like American students, and be mega-into-their-course-and-programming. Most of us are not, so don't share his enthusiasm for doing extra work or going to special guest talks. Anyway, he gives loads of individual homeworks for you to learn your way around Linux (which you'll be using instead of Windows). They're very difficult, and take alot of work. Just take your time and concentrate on them. Do as many of them as you can, too! I did like 6 or 7 out of about 20, and loadsa people did a similar amount. That's why so many of us did sh*t! Anyway, I did like 1 more individual homework than my teammates for the group project, and that's what made me pass -- yes, I'm a jammy dodger. They're helpful once you realise how F*CKING DIFFICULT the group project is!
Yeah, it sucks. We didn't understand what we were expected to do until about... a week before the submission date. Actually I still don't understand it. What the f*ck is a cellular automata again? I didn't like this module very much because he gives so much work, but it's slightly interesting, and a bit of a laugh the way you can all share in your collective misery.


Yeah they're the modules I did, you don't get a choice unfortunately. It's pretty decent I suppose!

EDIT:

HIYA OWEN!!!

Donald-Duck

DaveMcG wrote:

Hey there!

Here's a rather huge thread about the course, that I started a year ago
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=290455

Very helpful responses in there!

I'll answer some of your questions later, not arsed now But I will say that BA Comp Science seems to me to be mainly the good parts of Computer Science (ie. very little maths, lots of programming -- although it's only java, and I believe the other course does C also).

I've just finished 1st year (takin a year out now), and these are the modules you do in it, and a bit of a run-down...

Semester 1


2. Algorithmic Problem Solving - I HATED THIS MODULE!!! :mad: If you like puzzles and sh*t then you might enjoy this. I do not. It's the closest you get to maths in 1st year BA CSc, but it's not like algebra and stuff. Just pay attention from the start and don't give up on the problem sheets! I only went to 2 tutorials for this and didn't find them helpful at all. But you should go and see what you think. I struggled alot with this module and think I got a D3 or somethin jammy like that in the end. The problem sheets count for like 60% of your grade though. Oh and you can find alot of the answers on the internet, if you're a good googler, lol..... I did use them, and they helped me to understand the problems (ie. having the question and the answer, and working my way through it). The exam is just like the problem sheets, alot of the questions were repeated too. Can't remember the lecturer's name, but he's a nice bloke, and is VERY softly spoken. SIT DOWN THE FRONT!!! EVEN WITH THE NERDS!!! Actually sit a row or 2 behind them ¬_¬

2 weeks into the year and I already hate this .I can get some of the stuff,but other parts and I'm completly lost,and usually when I can do it,it's not by the methods you're suppose to use .All the maths classes is a joke so far, and I end up just sitting in boredom.

BKtje

.I can get some of the stuff,but other parts and I'm completly lost,and usually when I can do it,it's not by the methods you're suppose to use

I wouldnt worry, there isnt actually all that much to get. Just go to the tutorials and its amde somewhat simpler. Do the assignments and you'll have no probs passing. The subject isnt hard to pass and it does lead into stuff in second year.
(logics with equivel, fun i hear you say! )

Maths is just leaving cert honours maths iirc.

EDIT: HIYA DAVE!

Waltons

I'm in BA Comp Sci, and I have to agree with most of what Dave said. He's spot on about the Programming I & II modules, in that if you put a bit of work in, you'll reap the rewards. If you've had exposure to computers before (and this isn't even in a programming sense) you shouldn't have much trouble with this module if you go to the practicals which are worth 40% of the course (one of the lads I know didn't slept through the exam and still passed purely on practicals, though I wouldn't advocate doing this).

Algorithmic problem solving is a little overwhelming at first, definitely, but go along to the tutorials and get a bit of help from the tutors if you're not really understanding something. They're very helpful and friendly, and around the time when you receive your assginment sheets (at least if the course has the same format as last year) they'll go out of their way to help you to get things done. As far as I can remember, the assignment sheets are worth 60% of this course, so they're obviously very important. The lecturer - Henry - doesn't put notes online, so don't skip loads of lectures at once or you'll fall behind, and the tutors will be reticent - or unable - to help you if you're too far behind.

As for the SEP, I found this difficult last year, but I don't really know what the story is with it now as there's a new lecturer taking the course.


My advice as to picking the BA over the BSc would be to do it only if you have an interest in one or more of the arts subjects. Don't just do it because you won't have to do the maths, or some similar reason. My friend and I started the BA Comp Sci at the same time last year and he'd just gone in really to avoid the maths. He's now switched to BSc denominated as he wasn't really interested in his chosen arts subject.

As B-K-Dzr said, the algorithms used have, obviously, a good base in maths, so even if you choose to avoid the maths modules, you'll still have to do a fair bit of mathematical thinking. Moreso in Algorithmic Problem Solving than any programming modules in first year though.

I can't really comment on the attractiveness to employers about the BA compared to the BSc. Maybe if it's a completely programming oriented job they'd go for the BSc, but if your arts subject has relevance to the job you may have an advantage. I'd imagine it depends on the job really, but, as I've said, I'm not too sure about this.


After first year with the BA, you have to choose whether to take a full Comp Sci BA, joint major with an arts degree, or Comp Sci major with an arts minor.
The arts course would end in third year, if you took either the joint major or major/minor options, so I'd imagine 3rd year is fairly frantic, with arts finals and big Comp Sci third year stuff. Hopefully though some of the pressure will be taken off due to the new Horizons system.


Oh, I don't think the hardware modules are available through options in the BA Comp Sci, so you'd have to take these through Horizons electives, should you want to do them (Electives can be taken in any subject)

Hope some of this helps!

Nehpets

Some good information in here. I am thinking of doing Comp Sci. in UCD too. The BSc I think.

Is there any business things in arts that can be done with the BA CS?

Waltons

Have a look here under "Arts, Celtic Studies and Human Sciences" and I think they're the subjects available.
As you can see on that page though, most of the Business subjects are in another category. Closest thing to anything businessey would be Economics, I guess, which is what I'm doing

Blowfish

Hey, i'm in final year comp. sci. denom so hopefully I can help you out.

The intro to programming stuff is nice and easy, the lecturer (it still is Fintan isn't it?) is pretty good, and keeps the course going at a nice pace and is fair in the exams (which are pretty much just a bunch of short questions). so that you'll have no problem in getting a first in it.

_Ganondorf_ wrote:

- I'd like to study as little maths or physics as possible, as the BA seems to have alot less maths

- I'd rather have more options available after college. (I've been told a BA in Comp. Sci. is just as valid as a BSc, so it'l be good to have the extra subjects,no?)

BA's definitely do less maths, but as B-K-DzR said, maths is definitely core to comp. sci. Not being comfotable in maths, and not having as good a grounding in it as the BSc's will seriously limit your choices later in the course, as there are some really interesting and cool courses which rely heavily on it (e.g. Graphics, which the second year linear algebra and calculus courses are actually really useful for).

In my day (pre horizons) you had to do the two main comp sci modules, maths, and one science subject, so if you are trying to avoid physics you could do biology or chemistry instead, this may have changed though

The main language as mentioned is Java, its also the easiest fortunately. You will find that if you put in the work in first year, and are able to not just hack out Java, but are able to understand the principles behind it, you will pick up the languages later in the course far quicker. In second year, we did Assembly(x86 and motorola), Perl, and some web stuff (HTML, Javascript, CSS etc.). In third year we did C++, a bit more Assembly (for MIPS), and C(only if you took Graphics though).

B-K-DzR wrote:

Programming language is Java which is what you'll be doing the whole way through (i think?)

Kindof. Its definitely the main one, and is there are a lot of courses in second and third year which use to teach some other concept (Datastructures and Algorithms, Networks and A.I. spring to mind), but in fourth year, its quite often either specialised languages for certain things, or "do it in whatever language you want" type courses, in fact i'm not actually going to be using it at all this semester.

DaveMcG wrote:

Software Engineering Project

AFAIK, Joe Kiniry isn't taking it this year ( although I have been known to be wrong). I agree though that Joe is definitely one of the more fun lecturers, and you can learn a lot from him, but he will definitely work you like a dog.

DaveMcG wrote:

Algorithmic Problem Solving

Who does this? it wasn't around when I was a fresher. Have you got a link to a site for it? I'll have a look if you do, and let you know how relevant/important it is for the rest of the course.

There are definitely a fair few pseudo-maths courses in comp. sci. Its kindof hard to describe them if you haven't done them because a lot of them are kindof maths, but less abstract.

As to whether to go for BA, or BSc, well in all honesty its really just up to you.

In my experience, the BSc's are generally more comfortable programming, picking up new languages, and the maths type courses, while the BA's tend more towards the theory type ones like Databases, Operating Systems, and Performance of computing.

One thing to note though is that some of the courses that the BSc's take in second year are only available in third year for the BA's - as usual this may have changed with horizons.

Hopefully some of that waffle made sense and was useful, if you've any more questions, let us know

BKtje

As for the SEP, I found this difficult last year,

Yup new lecturer and ill be sitting here again repeating it and also doing Joes 2nd year course. I dunno if the new guy will be teaching through linux again but this was a MAJOR stumbling block for me. Not only was i trying to learn a new language but he wanted us to do it while not using any vowels (if ya catch my drift) by using Linux. Im sure Linux is great but teaching it while doing a project in a programming language that your only starting to come to grips with is one sure way of getting utter confusion and a high failure rate

Who does this? it wasn't around when I was a fresher.

Henry.. <insert surname here>. Very enthusiastic, tho comes accross like hes a little mad at first but he really grows on ya . Doesnt use online slides so dont miss too many as was said. This leads into Discrete Mathematics(or polite maths as he calls it) in 2nd year (which used to be a 3rd yr course apparently).

Waltons

Blowfish wrote:

Who does this? it wasn't around when I was a fresher. Have you got a link to a site for it? I'll have a look if you do, and let you know how relevant/important it is for the rest of the course.

Henry McLoughlin does the course. Link here should work. Didn't really have any impact on our programming in first year, certainly. Invariants and whatnot. Can't say for past that though.

One thing to note though is that some of the courses that the BSc's take in second year are only available in third year for the BA's - as usual this may have changed with horizons.

I think this has changed with horizons. As far as I know, the same subjects are available to the arts students as are available to the science ones. With denominated, the student has to take all comp modules, while with arts the student has a choice between some. If you do arts and use your electives to take 1/2 Comp Sci modules, you'd really only miss 1 option or so of the comp stuff

Blowfish

Waltons wrote:

Henry McLoughlin does the course. Link here should work. Didn't really have any impact on our programming in first year, certainly. Invariants and whatnot. Can't say for past that though.

Ah right cheers for that. It seems to definitely be an intro to Program Design and Verification (which seems to have been rebranded as Program Construction 1).

There is a PDV 2(prob renamed), available in fourth year, (no idea if they are gonna shift that one down a year aswell).

The predicate logic type stuff is used in a few courses - although its really confusing as to which as they keep renaming/merging/splitting courses.

I just realised that Joe Carthy isn't teaching any of the first year ones anymore - you guys are missing out, he's one of the soundest lecturers there.

Sangre

Your username is Ganondorf, it is your destiny to do Computer Science.

rainbow kirby

Blowfish wrote:

I just realised that Joe Carthy isn't teaching any of the first year ones anymore - you guys are missing out, he's one of the soundest lecturers there.

Amen to that, Joe is a ****ing legend.

Jonny Arson

Blowfish wrote:

I just realised that Joe Carthy isn't teaching any of the first year ones anymore - you guys are missing out, he's one of the soundest lecturers there.

Oh yes he is! I have him for the 1st year Informatics course as a core module of my 2nd year Information Studies course. Apart from my course, the module is only available as an elective AFAIK, it's pretty much a basic grounding in IT.

Oh and yeah, what Kirby said

rainbow kirby wrote:

Joe is a ****ing legend.

_Ganondorf_

Sangre wrote:

Your username is Ganondorf, it is your destiny to do Computer Science.

Haha, true I suppose! I am quite the nerd.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=290455

^^ That link is awesome! Lots of good info in there aswell as this thread. Cheers B-K, yer a legend! Thanks all of you for your help! After reading the posts in the two threads, i'm pretty much set on doing the BA Comp Sci. It really, really sounds like a great course and something that'd suit me! Probably do it with History and Information Studies, but we'll see. I'm trying to get the core of my college descisions over with now - moving out, staying home, what course etc.. So as to have it off my mind for 6th year. Theres alot of info here about the different modules to be chosed and combinations etc but I think that's something i'l leave till next year to worry about! I'm really excited about doing this course now haha... Just need to find out about employment prospects now! But thats only a secondary concern, as i've been advised over and over to just study the course I want to. The one question I have left is what are the different types of classes about? Like I heard mentions of tutorials and practicals and whatnot... Kind of worryingly that people don't turn up at all for some of them haha? I can understand missing classes but I can't imagine just not bothering haha.. sounds fun! Ah hell I really am excited... anyway thanks for all your help!! wooo.. will post in here again if theres anything else

Waltons

I thought Info Studies would tie in a bit with the Comp Sci stuff but I was sorely mistaken in that regard, and was left with a subject I really, really didn't enjoy. Fairly easy to pass though

Jonny Arson

Waltons wrote:

I thought Info Studies would tie in a bit with the Comp Sci stuff but I was sorely mistaken in that regard, and was left with a subject I really, really didn't enjoy. Fairly easy to pass though

AFAIK they arsed around the modules in 1st year Info Studies last year so there wasn't much relevance to IT but in 2nd/3rd year it definitely makes a good companion to Comp Sci as it's more ''Comp Sci-lite'' now if you want to call it that. I would recommend Comp Sci students to take it unless there was another Arts subject they really wanted to study, it's definitely a good combination if you want to learn something less technical than Comp Sci yet still being relevant to Comp Sci at the same time. Funnily enough I'm liking Info Studies more than Geography (which I adored!) this year.

Blowfish

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

AFAIK they arsed around the modules in 1st year Info Studies last year so there wasn't much relevance to IT but in 2nd/3rd year it definitely makes a good companion to Comp Sci as it's more ''Comp Sci-lite'' now if you want to call it that. I would recommend Comp Sci students to take it unless there was another Arts subject they really wanted to study, it's definitely a good combination if you want to learn something less technical than Comp Sci yet still being relevant to Comp Sci at the same time. Funnily enough I'm liking Info Studies more than Geography (which I adored!) this year.

I dunno if it is comp sci lite though, I mean it involves essays (/me shudders). It seems more just to be the theory behind comp sci. more than lite comp sci.

aaronquigley

Blowfish wrote:

AFAIK, Joe Kiniry isn't taking it this year ( although I have been known to be wrong). I agree though that Joe is definitely one of the more fun lecturers, and you can learn a lot from him, but he will definitely work you like a dog.

AFAIK he is, well thats what he said yesterday.

Blowfish

aaronquigley wrote:

AFAIK he is, well thats what he said yesterday.

Ah right ok, I stand corrected

aaronquigley

Blowfish wrote:

Ah right ok, I stand corrected

Apparently, I stand corrected. Joe will teach SEP 2 and SEP 3 (he says)

Blowfish

aaronquigley wrote:

But we were drunk so I'll double check!

Actually I just did, and according to sisweb its Michael O'Neill.

Waltons

A bit OT, but Joe had mentioned that he was no longer doing 1st nor 3rd year SEP and, if memory serves, sisweb had someone else listed for 3rd year SEP a while back, but now it's back with Joe again, so things might not be decided yet. Then again, memory might not serve

In regards to Info Science being "Comp Sci lite", perhaps it's similar in ways after first year, or was before Horizons was implimented, but from my experience of the subject, the little it had to do with computers was badly taught, and very patchy.

BKtje

he did indeed say that he was no longer going to be taking 1st and 3rd years but would be taking 2nd years.