goldfish - 3 out of 4 died

trout

my kids have been keen on a pet for a long time ... but i feel they are far too young to take care of a living creature (6 and 4 ... good kids ...but kids!) and i want them to be responsible

anyhoo ... wife & grand-parents got the kids two goldfish ... fine so, you might think... rather than overload the kids with responsibility, i've been caring for the goldfish myself

problem is, the goldfish died within two weeks of getting them, so of course i replace them sneakily ... three weeks later, one of the replacements has died

so ... i'm really concerned as to what i'm doing wrong for these fish ?

i am careful about feeding - kept the food out of the kids way, so i don't think we were overfeeding, literally a pinch morning & evening

also i cleaned out their fishbowl / water every three days, with tap water left standing for two days, to oxygenate and settle to room temp.

fishbowl was supplied by the petshop, it has no filter, looks to be 15 litres

finally, i have been using products recommended by the petshop for ammonia lock and oxygenation ... but the fish still died ... any advice ?

despite my fishy handle ... i am a dog/cat person ... please help ... i don't want to be cruel to these fish, and i don't want to keep replacing them

each time a fish died ... it looked ... sluggish ... beforehand, and i'd hate for them to be suffering

FranknFurter

Ill pobably be slated for this but I would cut down on the feeding, especially as there is no filtration. One pinch every second day would be my way.

Also, changing water every three days seems OTT to me, if the water is dirty to the point of needing changing every three days then you def are overfeeding. Every three days will stress the fish no end. Try only changing 1/3 of the water at a time rather than the whole lot. And a full change maybe once a month (?)

I personally dont like "fishbowls" as I dont think they are healthy for fish. Fish dont naturally just swim upwards and downwards, they need lenght not height. But thats just my opinion. My sister had a goldfish that lived 8 years in nothing but large "goldfish bowls" so Im open to correction.

B

Sigma Force

I don't like fish bowls either, they should not be filled to the top or changed daily. most fish bowls are too small to house more than one goldfish. Think about getting a small fish tank instead you can get the basic ones for about 45 euro although they really are only big enough for one fish so mabey something a bit larger, the more fish you have the more oxygen they use up.
So mabey get a larger fish tank and a filter, dirty water is caused by over feeding as already said each fish needs just one flake a day depending some people feed every second day and some one flake twice a day some go for a whole pinch. If they are small fish one flake a day is enough.
Change them only once a week and only 30% of the water add some stress coat..the amount to use will be on the bottle.

Here's a good site for basic info. on fish care.and it will explain more why bowls are a no no.
http://www.petlibrary.com/goldfish/goldfish.html

Our man in Havana

Buy a proper tank with a filter is a good place to start - often fish will get stressed & die.

trout

thanks for the advice lads ... will defo slow down on the feeding, and get a larger/filtered tank

tabatha

i have my goldfish eleven years. i know! i bought two of them for my daughter thinking they would be dead in a few weeks and one of them is still here. the other one died two years ago. he is made of steel! i feed him once a day sometimes once every two days. i clean his water every two weeks. nothing much else special to do. good luck!

netwhizkid

tabatha wrote:

i have my goldfish eleven years. i know! i bought two of them for my daughter thinking they would be dead in a few weeks and one of them is still here. the other one died two years ago. he is made of steel! i feed him once a day sometimes once every two days. i clean his water every two weeks. nothing much else special to do. good luck!

Cool, I though I was a bit freaky when my two old goldfish died with 6 days of each other 4 years ago in September 2002 aged about 10yrs. I was quite upset about it as I though they'd battle on for ever. Since day one they were cared for by me with excellency.

One day one of them fell out of the net onto the floor while being transported to the temporary tank while I was cleaning out and changing the water in the main one. Anyways I nearly had a stroke but immediately picked him up and got him into the tank, after a minute of motionless he revived and I was delighted. I had a fairly big tank with a constant air circulation from a pump and was getting a light fitted when they died. I didn't know that a light helps keep them goldy orange as mine had faded to an albino state in the two years before their demise.

I noticed with all the goldfish that when black spots appear they are destined to die soon, as I had quite a few over the years with them dying sporadically except for the two I mentioned above. When they died I gave up on goldfish as they were my last two. The only annoying thing was getting someone to mind them on Holidays, that was a pain and I was always dreading my granny would dose them but it never happened thankfully. I minded my cousins goldfish and all 6 were dead upon their arrival from a week in Lanzarote, obviously it was my fault they died for the whiny 6 yr old :eek:

tabatha

netwhizkid wrote:

Cool, I though I was a bit freaky when my two old goldfish died with 6 days of each other 4 years ago in September 2002 aged about 10yrs. I was quite upset about it as I though they'd battle on for ever. Since day one they were cared for by me with excellency.

One day one of them fell out of the net onto the floor while being transported to the temporary tank while I was cleaning out and changing the water in the main one. Anyways I nearly had a stroke but immediately picked him up and got him into the tank, after a minute of motionless he revived and I was delighted. I had a fairly big tank with a constant air circulation from a pump and was getting a light fitted when they died. I didn't know that a light helps keep them goldy orange as mine had faded to an albino state in the two years before their demise.

I noticed with all the goldfish that when black spots appear they are destined to die soon, as I had quite a few over the years with them dying sporadically except for the two I mentioned above. When they died I gave up on goldfish as they were my last two. The only annoying thing was getting someone to mind them on Holidays, that was a pain and I was always dreading my granny would dose them but it never happened thankfully. I minded my cousins goldfish and all 6 were dead upon their arrival from a week in Lanzarote, obviously it was my fault they died for the whiny 6 yr old :eek:

well i have mine in a big glass bowl (about 40 ltrs). my neighbour feeds him when i am away. his brother (as we like to call him) died from swim bladder disease i think. he was swimming on him side. anyway, whenever i change the water all i add in is salt stuff and swim treatment. thats it! everyone thinks its funny, when i come into the room and he spots me he comes over to the front of the bowl. when i go left he goes left and when i go right so does he! i have him trained now (as stupid as it sounds). for years now when i put his pinch of food in i tap the top of the bowl. if he is alseep as i tap the bowl he jumps straight up to the same place where my fingers are everytime and nearly takes the food out of my hand, no joke! i would be heart broken if anything happened to him. no matter what people say u do become attached.

Sigma Force

The black spots can be treated just as a good fish center. As for holidays ask the fish center as well I belive there is holiday food you can get so no need for someone to accidently over feed them.

Water test kits are vital just a wee bit of research and they become less daunting to look after. Also I don't take mine out of the tank to change the water, it's failry quick and he doesn't get stressed as long as you pour gently.

He also comes to the side of the tank to beg for food when he sees me.

moneyblues

my kids have been keen on a pet for a long time ... but i feel they are far too young to take care of a living creature (6 and 4 ... good kids ...but kids!) and i want them to be responsible

Let your kids have a proper pet!. The benefits far outway the hassle. You are obviously a caring person if you are so worried about goldfish and willing to clean them out so often. In any case the parent must always have the ultimate responsibility for any pet. That said even a four year old can pour dried food into a bowl or hold open a bin bag while you change hutch bedding.

Apart from learning to be responsible your children will grow up to be kind and caring, they will learn empathy - and they will be the envy of all their non pet friends!

Some advice incase you do decide to get a pet -If someone is at home all the time - get a dog. Choose carefully to suit household circumstances. Get a book from the library and think about the characteristics you'd like in a dog. Too many end up in the pound because the particular dog is too eneregetic or requires too much grooming etc.
Some breeds are easier to housetrain than others. If you were to go for a rescue dog try to get advice about the dogs temperment, requirements and ultimate size - don't just pick the cutest puppy!

If the house is empty a lot get two kittens, they will happily keep each other amused and won't be lonely. If neither of these seem like good options, consider two guineapigs. Make certain they are the same sex - 2 females is best. They are a cuddly little animal, very docile and they don't restrict their activity time to night time like some rodents. ( I feel guinea pigs should be indoors in the winter - it gets too cold outdoors. A shed would do if you throw a couple of old blankets over the hutch but your kids will interact more with them if you keep them indoors in an indoor gp cage.Make them a nice large pen for the summer to attach to the hutch - but make sure it is predator proof.)

Oh and I reccomend a cat/dog flap so your pet can come and go. Why do some people get a cat or dog and leave them outdoors permanently - they might as well have bought a picture instead!

Sorry to ramble on so much - I just think it's sad that most children don't experience the pleasures of caring for a pet these days. However if a parent actively dislikes animals (and I know some very nice people who do) then it is best not to get one. I've seen it tried and it rarely works out.

Right - I better go feed my noahs ark now.

FranknFurter

To a lot of people fish are great pets moneyblues.
Few years back, I had an oscar (now owned by a boardsie or two ) who would take food from your hand, come to the surface when called to have his head stroked, and was a lot friendlier than a lot of birds and rodents I've looked after.

B

moneyblues

I've nothing against fish, Frankfurter. We have a few as well and they are relaxing to look at. But for children -I think a pet they can physically interact with, beats looking at goldfish hands down.

How many 4 year old fish enthusiasts have you met!;)

KNO3

I don't think anyone has mentioned the obvious here YOU MUST DECHLORINATE THE WATER because chlorine will kill fish including goldfish, basically everytime you add water you must nutralise the chlorine, maybe you are doing this I dont know, but you dont mention it in your OP. Not dechlorinating the water will most definatly kill your fish. Letting the water sit is no guarentee that the chlorine is evaporating off. You can buy dechlorinator in any good pet store.

Sigma Force

While a fish can't be cuddled any parent can make esp. young children become interested in any pet if the parent themselves shows interest.
There are plenty of things you can do with a fish that can involve the kids, lots of fun tank toys, various bubble type toys and live plants to choose from.
Kids can get bored with any animal, you can also build your knowledge of fish keeping and eventually work with the child to get perhaps a bigger tank, something more complex once the basics are learned and research has been done. Not everone can have a cat or dog for various reasons.
Ok not all kids would be interested but as said it depends on the parents enthusiasm.

Same goes for other small pets which are usually just seen as kids pets like guinea pigs and rabbits, from a pet spider to a pet rodent to a pony kids will learn to appreciate and care for any type of animal the world doesn't have to revolve around furry dogs and cats all the time.

'N' no I don't hate dogs I have 2 and have had cats.

trout

KNO3 wrote:

I don't think anyone has mentioned the obvious here YOU MUST DECHLORINATE THE WATER

OK ... is there any way for me to check for the presence of chlorine ?

i've been letting the water stand for two days before changing ... as advised by the petshop ... if there is more i can do ... i'm happy to do it

what i've done since first posting ...
1) sourced another fish ... for company... both are well so far
2) got a larger tank - used, but seems perfect to me (no filter yet)
3) stopped overfeeding - this has had a huge impact on the water quality
4) partial changes of the water, as opposed to full clean out

NB : also ... the original gravel was dusty.. there was a chunk of concrete / aggregate which was quite grubby ... is it possible this chunk was releasing concrete dust / other chemicals into the water ??? my guess is this was a big part of the problem

moneyblues ... i'd love to get the kids a 'proper pet' ... problem is i'm so soft on pets that i wouldn't let my kids loose on a cat/dog/guinea pig unless i was completely confident they would care responsibly for the animals ... in my innocence i thought goldfish would be a good low maintenance introduction

thanks for all the advice

Sigma Force

Sounds like you are doing well so far, anything that goes into the fishs tank be it toys or gravel and the tank itself must be very very clean and have been well rinsed, I would say there may of been a number of reasons for water not being suitable for the fish but you should be fine now.
You can buy a small bottle (you use only a wee bit so no need to buy the huge bottles) of Stress Coat it removed the chlorine and neutralizes chloramines, it also replaces the slime coat on the fish and prmotes tissue regeneration. In other words its a great all round water treatment, depending on the size of the tank you will only need a teaspoon or two (10mls to every38 liters), use it when changing the water. It makes a huge difference.
It also has Aloe Vera.
It's brill.

tabatha

KNO3 wrote:

I don't think anyone has mentioned the obvious here YOU MUST DECHLORINATE THE WATER because chlorine will kill fish including goldfish, basically everytime you add water you must nutralise the chlorine, maybe you are doing this I dont know, but you dont mention it in your OP. Not dechlorinating the water will most definatly kill your fish. Letting the water sit is no guarentee that the chlorine is evaporating off. You can buy dechlorinator in any good pet store.

dont know where you got this info but i have my fish 11 years and have never done this and he is still going strong.

FranknFurter

tabatha wrote:

dont know where you got this info but i have my fish 11 years and have never done this and he is still going strong.

Well it definitely applies to all fish. Just because your fish has been able to cope with it, means he is able to cope with it, not that it is good practice.

Ive seen fish live in plain old tap water for many years too, no matter how hard I tried to persuade a particular familly member. But this again is the exception and is not good for the fish.

I can tolerate ciggarette smoke in my lungs but it is not good for me in the long term.

Just because somthing can tolerate it does not mean its ok, its somthing thats being imposed on the animal and probably causing a lot of stress and damage to the fish's body that cannot be seen yet.

B.

Sigma Force

True, same goes for other pets e.g. budgies. Just because they sing and chat away to each other in a small cage does not mean that that is the best way to keep them.