Will Bertie resign over payments???

Darragh29

irish1 wrote:

I think the fact that the McDowell hasn't said anything tonight speaks volumes, the PD's are afraid to defend him until they see the general reaction.

Very good point, I'd say Mc Dowell is rubbing the round file up and down the knife as we speak! They are being that silent, I don't think its that they are afraid to defend him, it looks more to me like they have something coming down the wire tomorrow for pool auld Bertie... This is the party that chose an election platform of being the watchdog in government, just in case a situation like this arose and the FF TD's stood by their man....

Dave!

I think he'll be forced to resign. The rest of the boys won't be impressed with his acting, so they'll wanna distance themselves from him and save their own chances.

Agreed about McDowell's silence...

Villain

I love the bit where he said he might have appointed some of the donor's to positions but that was because they were friends and not because they gave him money. I don't know which is a worse reason.

Darragh29

Darragh29 wrote:

Telling a lie and not telling the truth are two entirely different things!!! You appear to accept that now he has not declared this as a loan.

where did I say that?

I take it that you now accept that he did not declare this to Revenue when he received it. I don't accept that it is open to him to declare it now, when he's obviously been "outed".

Read my posts again calmly.
As far as I'm aware you cannot be Taoiseach without a tax clearance certificate.Also as far as I'm aware the Cross party Dáil committee that deals with etics and privileges can demand one.

Source please???

On declaring an interest free loan? Ask any accountant.

You see the, the most devious and cunning of them all, as an acccountant and an ex Minister for Finance, knows full well that a "loan" is not defined within the Taxes Consolidation Act, 1997 or any subsequent acts that ammended the TCA 1997, or any acts previous to it. There is nothing in the TCA 1997 or any tax act that I am aware of, prior to the 1997 act or subsequent to it, that says that you cannot give a loan to someone and accept repayment 50 years down the road. You do not even need to record and declare to Revenue the fact that it was a "loan". As far as I know, there are no definitions that limit the maximum term for a loan or when repayments must commence by after receiving the loan, hence why he found himself in a position where he never had to start making repayments, then if the money he received is discovered when he is like 90 years of age, he falls back on the "loan" story.

Effectively he is using a loophole in tax law to say that "technically" he is not in breach of any tax law.

sorry I'm confused as to your position on this now-Are you saying that the last couple of pages that you were claiming he wasnt tax compliant on this werent necessary and that we were increasing our post count for sport

Lets get one thing perfectly clear here,I'm trying to clarify facts.
I'm trying to separate facts here from pure speculation.
As I said earlier,if your going to make a case do it with facts rather than speculation.

It should be fairly easy to look into the people who gave this money for instance.It's also perfectly plausable to attack him for not either donating the money to charity when later on he became well healed.

Theres no doubt that he's been stupid or more accurately negilgent as now He'll have to give this money back with the interest compounded from a time when rates were treble what they are now at times and thats going to be costly but I'd imagine he can afford it.
Politically in my opinion he's made himself look a fool both in tonights interview and generally over this and that may get worse if theres any favouritism proved with respect to the people that gave him the money.

Darragh29

irish1 wrote:

I love the bit where he said he might have appointed some of the donor's to positions but that was because they were friends and not because they gave him money. I don't know which is a worse reason.

Yeah, that's up there with "That money was just resting in my account"!!! Honestly, he made Fr. Ted look snow white with his performance tonight. Looking at Mary Hanafin here on Prime Time, struggling to keep the pretence up. We need to decouple the whole subject of the "separation". It doesn't matter what he took the money for.

Villain

Rabbite has been digging into Berties old quotes already and my god has he found a good one, he had a quote from Bertie which he said he relation to Lowry, he said Bertie stated that a loan could only seen as such if there was specific documentation to support it*.

Now that along with his quotes about people not been beholden to money donors are making him very silly.

*Not exactly what he said but pretty much accurate, I'm sure we will hear the quote again.

Rofl
I love listening to Pat Rabbitte,He's a treat.
The next few days should be fun.

gandalf

Forget Rabbitte can't wait for Joe Higgens to get stuck in. Looks like the Teflon has worn off

2 r bine

axelfoley wrote:

What politicians have not received personal donations??

If Personal donations were a resigning issue - they'd be plenty of empty seats in the Dail.

Nice to see some PDs are still not asleep !!!

gandalf

Yeah but they are very very quiet (not like Herr Flick at all that!).

gandalf

Nicked this link from Politics.ie

http://www.irishelection.com/09/bertie-12-apostles/

Some interesting stuff there. Its like a join the dots of property developers at the moment. God I am going to enjoy the coverage of the dail tomorrow

Darragh29

gandalf wrote:

Nicked this link from Politics.ie

http://www.irishelection.com/09/bertie-12-apostles/

Some interesting stuff there. Its like a join the dots of property developers at the moment. God I am going to enjoy the coverage of the dail tomorrow

Looks like Bertie will have to wear his teflon nappy into the Dail tomorrow! My money says he'll be gone by this day next week...

constitutionus

heard some interesting news on newstalk. seems "paddy the plasterer" turns out to be a major property owner in dublin. kinda tarnishs the "old mate i used to have bass with who dosent have two cents to rub together" image.

also looks like we'll have to wait till 3.45 for his appearance in the dail and hes gutted taoiseachs question time, structuring it in a way meaning we probably wont hear from trevor sargent let alone my favorite for going for the jugular, joe higgins. i hope some one from the media interviews those two guys outside the dail cause it looks like were only gonna get pat and endas questions.

that said im really looking forward to hearing berties answer to pats question over where his documentation for the loan is seeing as bertie demanded the same from micheal lowry when he was snared rappid. should be fun

Villain

I think the Ceann Comhairle will have another tough today because he will do well to get the TD's to move on from Leaders questions.

Bertie Ahern is a hypocrite, pure and simple.

Akrasia

constitutionus wrote:

also looks like we'll have to wait till 3.45 for his appearance in the dail and hes gutted taoiseachs question time, structuring it in a way meaning we probably wont hear from trevor sargent let alone my favorite for going for the jugular, joe higgins. i hope some one from the media interviews those two guys outside the dail cause it looks like were only gonna get pat and endas questions.

bertie the democrat eh?
I'll only answer questions one day a week, and if I have any questions to answer, i'll only allow 30 seconds for people to ask them.

constitutionus

cant see the story dying though. trevor said he fully intends to question him about it next week, cause of course berties off till then after today. in fact its a miracle he turned up today at all seeing as he's only accountable monday to wednesday. bet pat rabbits regreting that deal he did now!

god i cant wait for joe, he tore lumps out of em over haughey and the bailey brothers. this should be like a slaughter:D

Akrasia

never mind...

sudzs

Hasn't anyone cocked an eyebrow at his disclosure that after his seperation from his wife which left so strapped for cash, he somehow, as if by magic, out of nowhere managed to "save" 50 grand???? :rolleyes:

gandalf

"Taoisigh and Ministers often have the duty to urge on the nation or on particular groups income restraint, and to warn that we all have to live within our means, but we should not require of others what we are not prepared to practise ourselves. Otherwise, we only encourage deep cynicism and a resistance to the notion that moderation can be in the long-term interests of all."

http://www.irlgov.ie/debates-97/10sept97/tribun.htm

Hmmm chickens coming home to roost now Mr Ahern eh

Villain

If you want to follow the events in the Dail you can do so @ http://www.oireachtas.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=%2Fdocuments%2Flivewebcast%2FWeb%2DLive%2Ehtm&CatID=116&m=o

I usually just use the dialup link, the broadband link can break up a lot.

gandalf

I would love to but in work at the moment and only checking sites when I have a spare moment. I will probably watch this on the box tonight. If the opposition don't make hay with this they should all be taken out and shot !!!

Maybe they should get the Monaghan Hospital protesters down to keep Rory O'Hanlon in check

Villain

The order of business includes questions on both the Monaghan Hospital and the Tallaght hospital which could get rough too.

Darragh29

He has some apologist friend on The Joe Duffy Show on RTE radio at the moment putting out spin for him. I feel like turning off the radio, the spin that is being put on this is that sickening. I'm honestly starting to believe that Irish people are inherently stupid. What does a politician have to do in this country to resign??? He is treating us all like idiots now, friends ringing up RTE feining sympathy for him. The whole focus of what he has done is being misplaced. There is no talk from his friends about a tax liability or undeclared income, all they want to do is brainwash the public into believing that because it involved his marraige and his children, we are all being unreasonable in questioning him! Thousands of ordinary people go through separations every year and have to provide financially for a wife & children, but they have to pay tax on all their income, whatever they are left with after the taxman gets his slice is what they have to work with. If they need more money, they have to borrow it and pay it back, they can't just expect to be bunged by publicans, builders, etc.

skearon

Darragh29 wrote:

He has some apologist friend on The Joe Duffy Show on RTE radio at the moment putting out spin for him. I feel like turning off the radio

RTE is a public service broadcaster, they have a duty to air both sides of any debate.

shoegirl

Macy wrote:

Of more concern to me has been his attitude to the questioning, it being none of anyones business what he did personally. Eh, yes it is when you're Minister of Finance recieving payments from business men. A very Haughey/ Lawlor/ Burke/ Flynn style reaction to the questioning I thought.

This would also be concern - the fact that he cannot see that he did something wrong in itself suggests that (like Callelly) he doesn't actually understand the seriousness of compromising himself financially.

The other worrying concern would be fact that he later promoted some of these people onto State Boards "because they were friends." You don't promote or hire somebody because they are your friend. You promote them because they are skilled in that area, or proven to be competent or capable.

Besides, who would normally fund a buddies separation or divorce? Nobody that I know. Bail a friend out who cannot afford it yes, but the minister for finance, who as a few posters put it, was earning at least 3 times the average wage? Surely this would suggest something is amiss with the entire story? Like its a tall tale.

I would actually speculate that if the money was put together to make a lump sum payment to cover Ahern's costs and possible payouts to his wife and family WAS HE BUYING THEIR SILENCE? Thats one more question.

Besides, since when did you consider a loan made 13 years ago still to be a loan if it wasn't repaid?

Darragh29

skearon wrote:

RTE is a public service broadcaster, they have a duty to air both sides of any debate.

Yes but they should try keeping it on topic, RTE is giving these apologists airtime to shift the focus of the debate away from where it ought to be.

Villain

Vote is 70-30 against him now apparently on Joe Duffy

skearon

Darragh29 wrote:

Yes but they should try keeping it on topic, RTE is giving these apologists airtime to shift the focus of the debate away from where it ought to be.

It's the JOE DUFFY show, what else do you expect, the headbangers, and pinkos always get more airtime

johnnyrotten

Darragh29 wrote:

Yes but they should try keeping it on topic, RTE is giving these apologists airtime to shift the focus of the debate away from where it ought to be.

Seems to me that the Anti-Bertie brigade are getting a lot of airtime.

johnnyrotten

Are there any Bertie supporters here who can see the man for who he is? - An Honest hard working politician!