Will Bertie resign over payments???

skearon

irish1 wrote:

Have you been to any Hospital A&E clinic in the last few years? Have you travelled on our road network or our public Transport system? Have you seen the figures for road deaths or crime rates? Have you tried to buy a house on a normal wage?

Yes, I now save 45 mins each way everyday due to having dual carriageway/motorway from Rathnew to Dundalk.

I use the Luas often from Sandyford into St Stephen's Green

No Govt can stop drivers doing stupid things and drinking, penalty points were introduced, roads are much better quality etc, etc

Our serious crime rate is one of the lowest in the OECD.

I bought a house not so long ago and am very happy with the capital appreciation, there are over 80,000 houses being built this year, the social housing output is the highest in europe per capita

Darragh29

'cause she's living in the love of the common people,
smile's from the heart of a family man.
Daddy's gonna buy you a dream to cling to,
Mama's gonna love you just as much as she can
and she can.

Villain

skearon wrote:

Yes, I now save 45 mins each way everyday due to having dual carriageway/motorway from Rathnew to Dundalk.

Nice for you, RTE 1 had a report last week which showed it took a mom over 2 and a half hours to drive 16 miles!!!

skearon wrote:

I use the Luas often from Sandyford into St Stephen's Green

I use the Luas when I'm in Dublin too but thats about one a month the rest of our country's rail network is a joke.

skearon wrote:

No Govt had stop drivers doing stupid things and drinking, penalty points were introduced, roads are much better quality etc, etc

Ah right and I suppose taking 9 years to get random breath testing is pretty quick

skearon wrote:

Our serious crime rate is one of the lowest in the OECD.

Murder rates have been rising and detection rates falling.

skearon wrote:

I bought a house not so long ago and am very happy with the capital appreciation, there are over 80,000 houses being built this year, the social housing output is the highest in europe per capita

I'd love to buy a house but unless I get married and go halves or get a lump sum somehwere it isn't going to happen.

Villain

Joe higgins is hilarious.

redtom

irish1 wrote:

the Irish times stated that 4 people in 1993 gave him between 50,000 and 100,00 and the figure was 22,000.

The Irish Times stated he received between 50,000 and 100,000 euros, not pounds - he received 39,000 pounds, which equals around 50,000 euros, therefore the Irish Times was correct

Darragh29

Joe Higgins is laying into him here! Christ that man should be a comedian!!!!

daithimac

This Has really made me consider the nature of Irish politics. when you consider bertie Dr Fitzgerald and CJH all have had there financal iregularities and men like Bruton and Lynch were as clean as a whistle the thought keeps crossing my mind that, If you want the job done well don't look to the alterboys

Darragh29

Bertie is starting to remind me of the General when he was arrested and taken in for questioning about a bank robbery. He used to just sit in the interrogation room with his hand over his face and repeat his mantra for whatever length of time the Gardai could hold him for questioning, "I've nothing to say to you'ze, I've nothing to say to you'ze, I've nothing to say to you'ze, I've nothing to say to you'ze, I've nothing to say to you'ze".

Bertie's manra being, "It wasn't a donation, it was a loan", "It wasn't a donation, it was a loan", "It wasn't a donation, it was a loan", "It wasn't a donation, it was a loan"...

Bunnyhopper

skearon wrote:

Yes, I now save 45 mins each way everyday due to having dual carriageway/motorway from Rathnew to Dundalk.

I use the Luas often from Sandyford into St Stephen's Green

No Govt had stop drivers doing stupid things and drinking, penalty points were introduced, roads are much better quality etc, etc

Our serious crime rate is one of the lowest in the OECD.

I bought a house not so long ago and am very happy with the capital appreciation, there are over 80,000 houses being built this year, the social housing output is the highest in europe per capita

The roads have improved, but there's a whole lot more that needs to be done - particularly for cyclists please. Crime figures are notoriously difficult to judge. I'd like to see more of a restriction on the ability of local authorities to accept payments from developers in lieu of their actually meeting affordable housing quotas.

(Maybe anyone who happened to be a Special Advisor to a Fianna Fáil Minister could pass that on... )

johnnyrotten

skearon wrote:

Very good point - Enda Kenny, lovely man, in politics for 30 years and no one seems to be able to point to anything useful or constructive he did during that time!

Or Bertie Ahern, who has overseen huge economic growth, massive increase in employment, massive increase in wages and massive decrease in corporation and personal taxes.

He was Minister of Finance at the time, if he was corrupt I'm sure he was in the position to get money for himself, he didn't, he didn't ask for the loans, a group of his closest friends came together to help him out - so what?

The real story is who leaked the information in the first place, I'm sure they got well paid for it by the papers or whoever got them to do it.

Someone talking sense at last!

My real fear: the bad old days of a FG/Labour Government :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

bmm

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]"Bert" as his close personal friends know him

I was feeling sorry for Bertie after his interview on the Sixone news yesterday but now i've changed my mind , i feel a bit dupped. I used to think Bert(ie) was the best and most honest of what FF had to offer although i was always consious of CJ's comments that he was the most cunning of all.

It sounds now like Bert(ie) has hundreds if not thousands of close personal friends . They seem to be coming down out of every tree in Dublin to support him.
I only have three close personal friends myself, none of them have ever given me a loan. Bert is lucky enough to have two close personal friends called Paddy Reilly! I mean what are the chances of that! It begs the question how many close personal friends does Bert have? Maybe someone isn't a true personal friend until they've given you a loan!

The way Berts friends keep moaning about the leak is a bit rich. The leak was not right but it doesn't take away one ounce from the fact that Bert has defaulted on his gift taxes.

I wonder are Berts friends doing him more harm than good. The croneyism of it all has made me less sympathetic. The golden circle talking about the bad old days for a finance minister in the early 90's!! Free Car + all expenses. How stupid do they think we are?

The public are not stupid, it is Bert and his friends who are covering this tax fraud in Berts personal issues in order to appeal to our sympathies.

What Bert should have done was been honest, owned up to the tax issue. Based on the trojan work he has done for this country the public would have forgiven him. (Clinton lied and was forgiven)

By the way, i voted for the PDs at the last election . They said they were going to keep manners on FF. They've gone very quiet all of a sudden. Last time i fall for that election spin!
[/FONT]

constitutionus

irish1 wrote:

Joe higgins is hilarious.

loved the bit about the plasterer and the painter!

by the way IRISH1, thumbs up on the on the spot reporting. i was stuck on the bus when the coverage started so i only got in to hear from pat onward. i head on the telly bertie apparently gave a pre speach that one of the RTEcomentators thought was worth an applause if they supported him, and slilence followed.

bertie looked very subdued in this whole grilling but joe gets my vote for the most impressive attack. not many of us remember the average industrial wage in 93 was 13200. speaking for myself i was only earning 7 grand back then and that was a good job in the financial sector! 39k was a lot of money back then to the average guy. and some of the jokes higgins hit him with. incidently was i the only one who heard a rumble when higgins questions were called by the ceann camohairle (spl?) everyone expected some thing good to happen

cant wait till trevor sargent gets him next week

johnnyrotten

irish1 wrote:

Have you been to any Hospital A&E clinic in the last few years?

Yes, Most overcrowding is due to people abusing the A&E service! Thats a fact !

irish1 wrote:

Have you travelled on our road network or our public Transport system?

Yes, Improving all the time, What infrastructure was put in place during the dark years of FG/Labour Government?

irish1 wrote:

Have you seen the figures for road deaths or crime rates?

Yeas again, Road deaths are being sorted, better that the Dark days (see above ) when it was acceptable to drink/drive

irish1 wrote:

Have you tried to buy a house on a normal wage?

Yep, Bought mine in the dark days (see above) when wages were SH*&e, no minimum wage, huge interest rates, massive umemployment etc etc.

A lot done , a lot more to do!

constitutionus

by the way took down some deatails revealed on the radio over the last two days which i think might interest you on berties backers

david Mckenna. used to be a plumber who parlayed his business into a multimillion euro company called the "marleboro group" apparently things went tits up in the early '00s. this is the guy who used to fly bertie on his private jet to Man U matches in england .so we can assume he's a good friend. bertie put him on the board that covers the IDA


joe burke, got the chairmanship of the board of dublin port. bertie did this personally and when asked what qualification he had bertie said "his wife used to work down there and hes from the area"
by the way, most damning is the guy asked for that job off bertie. now dont tell me getting a few quid off the guy didnt influence berties decision here

barry english. a well know supporter of FF apparently who regulary buys tables for functions and attends the tent in the galway races. the enigma of the group cause hes an engineer, no problem there but when he loaned the money to bertie, bertie described him as a very good close friend. the guy was born in '66. meaning he was 27. no i dont know about you but how many of your 27yr old mates hang around with 43 yer old ministers for finance's?

apparently i was wrong in one of my posts. its 5 guys who ended up on boards not 4 and Mr Nugent? whom is one of these guys who arent really big shots according to bertie? he was the chariman of the central bank! and this is PRE euro people,this isnt some lad knocking back the bass in fagans. this is one of the most important and influential guys in the country.

oh and one last thing on newstalk breakfast show yesterday morning junior minister for foreign affairs, mr Noel Tracey, said they know who leaked the information but refused to name the person. gave some guff about not wanting to interfer with the tribunals, but sounded seriously pissed off. so look for someone to get an early retirement soon

Darragh29

Yep, Bought mine in the dark days (see above) when wages were SH*&e, no minimum wage, huge interest rates, massive umemployment etc etc.

A lot done , a lot more to do!

Hmmm, it seems you bought your house when houses in Dublin were affordable. I want to make the point that the ratio of income to property prices back then was normal. Last week property prices were 13+ times the yearly income of many workers such aqs Gardai, nurses, firemen, etc. Whatever about shi*te wages and the rest of it, you could actually still afford to buy somewhere due to the ratio of income to property prices which was probably about 3-4 to 1. Now you can't buy in Dublin because your competing with investors who have an equal right to buy the house that you might want to buy although all they are doing is making themselves incredibly wealthy.

For this, I'll never vote for FF again. I ended up having to buy an hour away from where I work in the back of fu*king beyond, spend 3 hours a day in traffic. Thanks but no thanks Bert, you've done fu*k all for me...

johnnyrotten

Are property prices Berties fault?

constitutionus

Darragh29 wrote:

Hmmm, it seems you bought your house when houses in Dublin were affordable. I want to make the point that the ratio of income to property prices back then was normal. Last week property prices were 13+ times the yearly income of many workers such aqs Gardai, nurses, firemen, etc. Whatever about shi*te wages and the rest of it, you could actually still afford to buy somewhere due to the ratio of income to property prices which was probably about 3-4 to 1. Now you can't buy in Dublin because your competing with investors who have an equal right to buy the house that you might want to buy although all they are doing is making themselves incredibly wealthy.

true enough, i started work then and was on the princle sum of 7 grand a year meaning i could get a mortgage of 3 1/2 times my wage or 24500. course i didnt know that then cause no one in school ever bothered to teach me something useful like how to take out a mortgage or do my taxes. prefering to teach me something incrediblly useful like irish:rolleyes: so i didnt get a house then. pity couldve saved myself 80k in the end.
and just incase your wondering , yes . you could still get a house for that back then cause my bro got one for 16900 in 94:eek:

always makes me laugh when everyone goes on about how bad the country in the 80's was when we had more beds in hospitals, a larger gardai to citizen ratio , chronic unemployment granted but 80% of the country owned their own home and people on HALF the industrial wage could still afford a home on their own. how many on double it now can afford a house on their own.

johnnyrotten

irish1 wrote:

Enda says he hasn't answered his question about how he can apply different standards to others than to himself.

"Are you not man enough to say yes I am Wrong"

"Are you prepared to admit that acceptance of 50,000 was wrong"

He is asking about the 8,000 he got for speaking in Manchester now.

Do you have any connection with Fine Gael ?

constitutionus

johnnyrotten wrote:

Are property prices Berties fault?

have a look who goes to the tent at the galway races and tell me! property developers are FFs paymasters, the gutting of part 5 proves that. we should have over 30 thousand low and affordable houses in this country. currently we've 1600

oh and getting back to the thread, notice that two of the people on the list of berties backers are an auctioner (yes mr gunne is the guy who founded gunne auctioneers) and a property developer/landlord. coincidence prehaps he's done nowt to sort out that market?

Darragh29

johnnyrotten wrote:

Are property prices Beries fault?

Yes. Property became unaffordable to most people in Dublin on his watch over the last 10 years so therefore he is responsible for this. Why is he responsible??? Because on the demand end of things, he allowed a situation to develop where investors/speculators/parasites were allowed to buy up properties all over Dublin, which drove up prices and was unfair to people who were trying ot get their foot on the ladder. These people now have to rent off investors, how fu*ked up is this??? Two houses very near me are owned by two couples who between them own 25 properties in Dublin, what right have these two couples to own 25 properties between them when 25 familys/couples are forced to rent of these parasites???

On the supply end of things, he allowed a situation to arise where seriously weathly property developers controlled the amount of development in Dublin, driving up prices even further.

Also, he stands over the removal of the first time buyers grant, the only bit of comfort that was out there for a first time buyer...

Darragh29

constitutionus wrote:

have a look who goes to the tent at the galway races and tell me! property developers are FFs paymasters, the gutting of part 5 proves that. we should have over 30 thousand low and affordable houses in this country. currently we've 1600

oh and getting back to the thread, notice that two of the people on the list of berties backers are an auctioner (yes mr gunne is the guy who founded gunne auctioneers) and a property developer/landlord. coincidence prehaps he's done nowt to sort out that market?

I hate that term "affordable housing". Surely all houses should generally be "affordable". It's like the cu*nts in government are saying, "OK, we'll build some affordable housing for the peasants amongst you but other than that lads, keep building houses that our own people can't afford".

This government is ADDICTED to stamp duty. When this whole property train grinds to a halt, we are all fuked.

Diogenes

johnnyrotten wrote:

Are property prices Berties fault?

You seem to think everything up to and including the culture of drink driving was the blame of the FG/Labour Coalition. No mention that an awful lot of our economic success was built on the groundwork of that coalition. It's not like FF magically rode into power and transformed the economy overnight. Alot of the Success was down the groundwork was laid by the FG/Labour coalition's economic policies.

Darragh29

Darragh29 wrote:

This government is ADDICTED to stamp duty.

I don't follow.

Only a few years back the top rate of duty kicked in at 60k. Furthermore, there was no such thing as breaks for first time buyers or owner occupiers. FF have changed the rates, introduced a lot of exemptions - though maybe the PDs might claim credit for that. On the other hand, because of the market, the tax take has gone way up, but it's certainly not sue to any 'addiction' as you suggest. In fact, stamp duty as a charge goes back over 100 years afaik. It's certainly nothing new.

In addition, when Joe Higgins starts becoming the pivotal party in power, then I'm sure the auctioneers and developers will migrate towards him.

Either way, lest one think I am defending Ahern, I think he should go over this matter. But let's not rehash old clichés about Galway Races or make up stuff about addictions to taxation.

Just heard Joe Higgins draft the letter he thinks Bertie should have sent with the draft returning the money..

p.s to paddy the plasterer-steer clear of Ivor callery's house,he's in enough trouble with the painters already

lostexpectation

what's modest and legit about rich friends buying a house for you?

this idea that bertie has a modest appetite, well why that doens't included houses.

if it isn't him living it up who is it?

Darragh29

Deleted User wrote:

I don't follow.

Only a few years back the top rate of duty kicked in at 60k. Furthermore, there was no such thing as breaks for first time buyers or owner occupiers. FF have changed the rates, introduced a lot of exemptions - though maybe the PDs might claim credit for that. On the other hand, because of the market, the tax take has gone way up, but it's certainly not sue to any 'addiction' as you suggest. In fact, stamp duty as a charge goes back over 100 years afaik. It's certainly nothing new.

In addition, when Joe Higgins starts becoming the pivotal party in power, then I'm sure the auctioneers and developers will migrate towards him.

Either way, lest one think I am defending Ahern, I think he should go over this matter. But let's not rehash old clichés about Galway Races or make up stuff about addictions to taxation.

Look, all I'm saying is that I'm the first generation of my family since the 1600's to be priced out of living in the county that I was born in. I was born in Dublin, my friends are in Dublin and I work in Dublin, but I have to live in Westmeath??? That's my issue, I blame the government, Bertie is the leader of the government, the book/buck must stop there. I don't see any use whatsoever in not getting hit for stamp duty as a first time buyer when I have to buy somewhere over an hour away, somewhere I don't want to live.

ifconfig

I haven't read this full thread but did anyone note that one of the
names of the 8 "loan" contributors was named "Mick Collins".

On the 1pm Radio News they mentioned that he wasn't really
as widely known as the other friends....the interviewer asked
Charlie Chawke this and then moved on as he said it was
a side issue ...

Is this a case of Michael Collins coming back to haunt the FF'ers/
soldiers of destiny ?

sceptre

johnnyrotten wrote:

Yes, Most overcrowding is due to people abusing the A&E service! Thats a fact !

If it's a "fact !" then you can emphatically prove it with figures. Please do.


I'm ignoring all the other entries about "dark days" as I regard that as unsubstantiated opinion rather than a statement of fact that I'm requesting verification on.

skearon

Diogenes wrote:

You seem to think everything up to and including the culture of drink driving was the blame of the FG/Labour Coalition. No mention that an awful lot of our economic success was built on the groundwork of that coalition. It's not like FF magically rode into power and transformed the economy overnight. Alot of the Success was down the groundwork was laid by the FG/Labour coalition's economic policies.

- In 1997 under Fine Gael & Labour PAYE rates were 27% and 48%
- Today under FF & the PDs the rates are 20% and 42%, respectively

- In 1997 a single PAYE payer was taxed at from €97.77. Today the figure is €300
- In 2006, a worker on the Average Industrial Wage will earn €12,600 more than in 1997 but pay over €400 less tax.

- In 1987 under FG & Labour every penny paid in income tax went on servicing the National Debt. In 1997, €1 in €6 of your tax went on servicing Debt. In 2004, under FF & the PDs less than €1 in €25 raised went in servicing the Debt.

- In 1997 14% of the income tax yield coming from those earning at or under the average industrial wage today the figure is 6% .

- And the Companies that create jobs pay less tax too. In 1997 the standard corporation tax rate was 36% today it is 12.5%.

Remember Local Authority housing output fell 11% under the FG, Lab & DL Coalition, today houses are being built at 6 times the EU average, no other country in Europe approaches this level of home building.

The current government has a clearly focussed tax policy has contributed to economic growth and job creation. That’s why we have almost 1 million more jobs under FF & the PDs than under Fine Gael & Labour.

Of course FG/Lab weren't responsible for drink driving, however I certainly don't want to see a patchwork government of FG, Labour, Greens etc trying to run this country.

Vainglory

Missed the last hour or so of the live web stream..can someone tell me what happened?

Have they moved off the subject for the rest of the evening or are they going back to it?