Will Bertie resign over payments???

Villain

It was 8,000 Sterling too!

McDowell's recent comments are quite strong, I think the PD's could be about to turn the screw!

Nah I'd say Bertie and McDowell have had this well rehearsed between them.
McDowell probably already knows Berties response and maybe is even drafting it;)

Villain

I don't know Tristrame, if that is the case I think he went a bit far and Liz McDonell also asked simalar questions.

This is going to run and run and I really think that opinion polls in the coming weeks will reflect badly on Bertie and FF.

Darragh29

skearon wrote:

Interesting, if none of them were domiciled in Ireland and it was a gift, then no tax law was broken

Just watching him on RTE news here. He's starting to sound like a fu*king down and out with holes in his shoes and the arse of his trousers to be honest. "They just passed around a hat or a box or something and they put some money into it and gave it to me at the end of the evening, I was just telling them how things were going in Ireland!". Mother of Jasus, has this man got a neck as stiff as a fu*kin GAA Goalpost or something????

gandalf

Politics.ie are reporting that their sources are telling them the Government will collapse tonight!!

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=14221

Its that happens I'm going to celebrate this weekend

irish1

irish1 wrote:

I don't know Tristrame, if that is the case I think he went a bit far and Liz McDonell also asked simalar questions.

This is going to run and run and I really think that opinion polls in the coming weeks will reflect badly on Bertie and FF.

I'm wondering if it is going to run and run-I mean is there something else?
All thats left now is an explanation of who paid out the money in manchester 13 years ago.

All I'm hearing from opposition parties is yada yada yada so far.They're going to need something a bit bigger than this to keep the thing going-has he accepted money for speeches in the last 13 years for instance? Did he give the audience any sensitive information?

To be frank,I'd say the poor opposition are going to be disappointed because most of the rumblins I'm hearing so far are coming from people that already dont like Ahern or his party.
Harping on when no law was broken runs the risk of a fuss being made tiring the public.

You meant liz O Donnell didnt you? she's surely on the same train track as her party leader.They dont want to leave government a moment before the term is up and neither does bertie.
The choreography is being well rehearsed between them all.
They know full well I'd say what Ahern will be saying next tuesday.

Oh I'm such a cynic but them would you blame me?

gandalf

gandalf wrote:

Politics.ie are reporting that their sources are telling them the Government will collapse tonight!!

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=14221

Its that happens I'm going to celebrate this weekend

He he Gandalf

I have my doubts but shur Qué sera sera etc

pete

skearon wrote:

Interesting, if none of them were domiciled in Ireland and it was a gift, then no tax law was broken

oh, well that's alright then.

constitutionus

im pretty sure bertie himself said the manchester money was a payment in the interview he did on six one, he's said today it wasnt a loan on the news. thats why micheals changed his tune since this morning. it looks like a clear and simple matter of violating cabinet policy on taking money while in office.

this could be it for bertie, i havent heard him say anything about a gift from these unnamed lads in the uk

*edit. just checked the interview on the RTE website. go 12mins into it and bertie clearly says its a payment, he waffles a bit about saying its a political donation but then says it is a payment and it went into his account which he's told the tribunal about.

so there you go , not a gift

flogen

Wag on Irishelection.com has it that the PD's are thinking of walking; while it's all unsubstanciated at the moment even if it were true the Government could still hold together without the PD's, they just need to get very generous with a few independents.

I also doubt that the PD's will walk this side of the weekend either way, they may have threatened to walk if full disclosures were not made very soon.

Dave!

Did I hear on the news earlier that an Tánaiste said something to the effect of "Bertie's still got some more questions to answer"? Or did I mishear?

constitutionus

flogen wrote:

Wag on Irishelection.com has it that the PD's are thinking of walking; while it's all unsubstanciated at the moment even if it were true the Government could still hold together without the PD's, they just need to get very generous with a few independents.

I also doubt that the PD's will walk this side of the weekend either way, they may have threatened to walk if full disclosures were not made very soon.

what independant would go for that with only less than a year left in the government? if we were two years in i'd understand but i cant see anything being delivered for em in 8 months. no i think berties stuck with the PDs which means if macdowel doesnt pull the plug they'll be ruling the roost from now till the election. lets face it they already got what they wanted in regards to dublin bus. hey maybe macdowels cafe bar liscenes might be revisited

Akrasia

skearon wrote:

Interesting, if none of them were domiciled in Ireland and it was a gift, then no tax law was broken

it's not only about the tax impications, it's about Bertie Accepting money to talk about the irish economy while he was the Minister for Finance. 8,000 sterling was not a small sum of money back then (or even today)

It was the equivalent of the entire yearly wage for many Irish people

it should be obvious why any payments to to a serving Minister from private business men is a significant breach in standards.

jd

Michael's friend Sam Smyth said Ahern is in "big trouble". Doesn't sound good for Bertie.
jd

gandalf

He's finished.

It's just a matter of will he resign, doubtful. Will he be pushed more probable, will Herr Flick walk out I think this could happen tomorrow and then Bertie will be sacrificed.

Its quite fascinating at the moment.

lostexpectation

jd wrote:

Michael's friend Sam Smyth said Ahern is in "big trouble". Doesn't sound good for Bertie.
jd

where'd he say that?

gandalf

He was on Prime Time with the lovely Miriam.

Sam Smyth said it on Primetime tonight.
Sam has McDowells moby number and is a personal friend

Villain

Well nothing is going to happen tonight, some believe McDowell will wait until Tuesday to see how Bertie defends himself in the Dail.

Bertie appears to be under real pressure now but I still can't see him resigning.

flogen

constitutionus wrote:

what independant would go for that with only less than a year left in the government? if we were two years in i'd understand but i cant see anything being delivered for em in 8 months. no i think berties stuck with the PDs which means if macdowel doesnt pull the plug they'll be ruling the roost from now till the election. lets face it they already got what they wanted in regards to dublin bus. hey maybe macdowels cafe bar liscenes might be revisited

Think of the concessions an independent would get for saving the government from an embaressing collapse, they'd get more than their fair share if they gave FF a few months saving grace to get their act together again.
The last thing Bertie wants is an election with all this in the background, he'll do what he can to avoid that.

LostinBlanch

I can't see the PDs leaving this side of the budget. I thkk they want ot have their cake and eat it as usual i.e. be part of the government and opposition at the same time.

If they get to the budget they can claim responsibility for the giveaway bits [ooh look libertarian approach to taxes - we don't need that much]. Then they're going to look for an excuse to leave on a "point of principle" so they can then pretend to be part of the opposition in the run up to the election.

telecaster

But seriously, would anyone here prefer Rabitte or Kenny to Bertie as Taoiseach?

gandalf

At the moment Mickey Mouse would be an improvement !!!

LostinBlanch

Yes;

and your question is?

Peanut

telecaster wrote:

But seriously, would anyone here prefer Rabitte or Kenny to Bertie as Taoiseach?

Pat Kenny, Superb idea imho!

"A-ha!!"

cast_iron

gandalf wrote:

At the moment Mickey Mouse would be an improvement !!!

Clearly you know alot about politics.
Bertie has done a good job. Could have been better, could have been worse, but you don't stay in power as long as he has without being good at your job. (We can exclude George W. on that one:D )!

flogen

cast_iron wrote:

Clearly you know alot about politics.
Bertie has done a good job. Could have been better, could have been worse, but you don't stay in power as long as he has without being good at your job.

That's a popular misconception; being apolitical here anyone can stay in a job they're bad at if they're shrewd enough.

To some degree he got lucky, to some degree he was very shrewd (building his image up etc.) and to some degree he buys support (SSIA's maturing in an election year? What a co-incidence!!!).

I'm not saying other would have done a better job, I'm just saying he hasn't been as great a statesman as his (now record) time in office might suggest.

cast_iron

flogen wrote:

To some degree he got lucky, to some degree he was very shrewd (building his image up etc.) and to some degree he buys support (SSIA's maturing in an election year? What a co-incidence!!!).

And that's exactly what makes him so good at his job.

democrates

Roll on Tuesday.
I'd guess unless it's very clear cut he'll weather the storm, but if any other bonies lurk in the closet...

In any event it's fair to say "he did us some service, no more of that".

lostexpectation

so obviously this man of the people image was very fragile even among FF voters,im surprised who the hell are these friends of his in Manchester suggesting yet another payment for him to go into his pay a/c without process?

do you think there was more stuff to come out in the mahon tribunal about ahern and its predictions of that worry FF...

there was me always waffling on about bertie being corrupt and everyone ignoring me, again the papers knew about these things years ago and said nothing.