Another step towards Eurabia?

Sgt. Sensible

BNP wrote:

The BNP has moved on in recent years, casting off the leg-irons of conspiracy theories and the thinly veiled anti-Semitism which has held this party back for two decades. The real enemies of the British people are home grown Anglo-Saxon Celtic liberal-leftists ... and the Crescent Horde – the endless wave of Islamics who are flocking to our shores to bring our island nations into the embrace of their barbaric desert religion.

nickgriffin88 wrote:

We bang on about Islam. Why? Because to the ordinary public out there it's the thing they can understand. It's the thing the newspaper editors sell newspapers with. If we were to attack some other ethnic group — some people say we should attack the Jews ... But ... we've got to get to power. And if that was an issue we chose to bang on about when the press don't talk about it ... the public would just think we were barking mad.

They're so politically incorrect!

fly_agaric

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

They're so politically incorrect!

What is your point with the constant references to far right rhetoric and the BNP?

Is it that anybody who says that Islamic extremists are a threat to our societies or says alot of muslim immigration is dangerous at present sounds somewhat like a BNP supporter/neo-nazi (because the BNP, as you have shown demonise muslims and go on about muslim immigration + how they are going to convert us all some day!)?

Is it that anybody who so much as mentions the evils of political correctness when its taken to an extreme sounds somewhat like a BNP supporter (because the BNP go on about that too)?

If so - not much of a point in either case, is it? It's just your own attempt tarring with a broad brush.

There is a difference between expressing those opinions and spewing hate-speech about muslims (or "lefties") IMO.

And as regards pc excesses, even stopped clocks are right twice a day.

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

Oh lordy mama. Made up rubbish time. I can assure you that the nazis here would kick your head in if you suggested to their faces that they were lefties of any kind. It's off topic so start a new thread on that please. I wouldn't mind a good laugh.

I think he meant economic policies there. I think they tailor their economic policies to their supporters (like the original Nazis perhaps -lefty populism about everyone having a job + keeping big business supporters sweet at the same time).

Hobbes

toomevara wrote:

Just to get things back on track, hot off the presses, the lastest act of what I'm now terming islamo-infamy; A columnist for French newspaper Le Figaro has gone into hiding because, once again I think you're probably ahead of me here, he's received death threats for having the barefaced cheek to call the prophet Muhammed a desert warlord, which incontrovertibly, in the later Medinan phase of his life, he was!!!

Actually thats not what he said at all.

First up he posted an Op-Ed piece (which rarely deals with facts).

Secondary the piece he wrote had comments like.
- "the Koran is a book of extraordinary violence"
- "Islam is a religion that "exalts violence."
- "Muhammed is a master of hatred."
- "a merciless warlord, a looter, a mass-murderer of Jews and a polygamist".

and thats more or less the tame bits so it is far from stating facts.

You also failed to mentioned that the majority of Muslims have come out and condemmed the threats to his life. I guess you missed that part.

Or this bit..

Khadija Moshen-Finan, a researcher at the French Institute of International Relations (IFRI) in Paris.

"Even for us Muslims, who say repeatedly that we must debate about the contents of Islam and its evolution in relation to today's international context, these types of articles are not helpful, because they are injurious and are not open to debate."

Moshen-Finan said that when she read the commentary, she concluded that it was just a bad article. "But bad articles should not be censored. I don't think so," she added.

So next time actually read the facts rather then spouting BS. Thanks.

Zombrex

Hobbes wrote:

You also failed to mentioned that the majority of Muslims have come out and condemmed the threats to his life. I guess you missed that part.

Which isn't surprising. The vast majority of Muslims have always condemed these types of things.

But then this imagine of the reasonable calm Muslim doesn't fit into the stereotype of the hot headed prone to violence aggessive fundamentalist Muslims that is doing the rounds in the west.

It was only a few weeks ago you found posts on Boards.ie claiming that Muslims are unwilling to condem acts like 9/11. I, and a few others responded with that simple fact that everyone in the Muslim world, from student in Palestine to Imans and State leaders in Iran, condemmed the 9/11 attacks. It was pretty hard to find a Muslim who didn't condem the attacks.

To be honest I would be much more concerned about the right-wing anti-imigration xenophobic propaganda that is stiring up hatred and tension towards Muslims, than the Muslims themselves.

Sgt. Sensible

fly_agaric wrote:

What is your point with the constant references to far right rhetoric and the BNP?

Is it that anybody who says that Islamic extremists are a threat to our societies or says alot of muslim immigration is dangerous at present sounds somewhat like a BNP supporter/neo-nazi (because the BNP, as you have shown demonise muslims and go on about muslim immigration + how they are going to convert us all some day!)?

It's not politically correct (hey I can use this stupid term too) to say this but yes. Especially when the language used is identical and all counter arguments and facts are conveniently ignored. And it's not like the far right are shy about spamming messageboards with their propaganda from time to time.

Is it that anybody who so much as mentions the evils of political correctness when its taken to an extreme sounds somewhat like a BNP supporter (because the BNP go on about that too)?

What is political correctness? If it means anything it's a sneer at established western liberal values (the same values muslims are accused of plotting to destroy) and is used almost exclusively in my experience by anti-social reactionary cranks and professional trolls like Richard Littlejohn.

On the subject of 'our values' and artistic expression, who bottled 50 Cent and Panic At The Disco off the stage at festivals recently? Muslims?

I think he meant economic policies there. I think they tailor their economic policies to their supporters (like the original Nazis perhaps -lefty populism about everyone having a job + keeping big business supporters sweet at the same time).

I assure you he doesn't know what he's talking about. The subject belongs in a new thread.

The_Scary_Man

Wicknight wrote:

Which isn't surprising. The vast majority of Muslims have always condemed these types of things.

But then this imagine of the reasonable calm Muslim doesn't fit into the stereotype of the hot headed prone to violence aggessive fundamentalist Muslims that is doing the rounds in the west.

It was only a few weeks ago you found posts on Boards.ie claiming that Muslims are unwilling to condem acts like 9/11. I, and a few others responded with that simple fact that everyone in the Muslim world, from student in Palestine to Imans and State leaders in Iran, condemmed the 9/11 attacks. It was pretty hard to find a Muslim who didn't condem the attacks.

To be honest I would be much more concerned about the right-wing anti-imigration xenophobic propaganda that is stiring up hatred and tension towards Muslims, than the Muslims themselves.

Too true, people forget that just six years ago David Copeland set off a series of nail bombs in London killing three and injuring many more. He didn't belong to a particular group or organisation but he followed an ideology. Isn't that how Al-Qaida is supposed to operate? As a focal point for an ideology rather than a coherent organisation. These guys are dangerous and all the more so because they are starting to gain popularity and political clout across Europe.
Just today another story has come out detailing a campaign of intimidation of anti-fascist and anti-racist activists through publishing their photographs and details on the website Redwatch.org.uk Redwatch Web Hate.

Islamic Jihadists are without doubt a very serious problem that needs to be dealt with but lets not lose sight of the fact that they are not the only threat we face.

“Knowing your own darkness is the best method for dealing with the darknesses of other people.”
Carl Gustav Jung

toomevara

Hobbes wrote:

You also failed to mentioned that the majority of Muslims have come out and condemmed the threats to his life. I guess you missed that part.

Or this bit..

So next time actually read the facts rather then spouting BS. Thanks.

Accept all that, especially the part about the vast majority of muslims having no truck with violence. Point is though, that the relatively small,but ever growing, vocal militant minority who have shown a willingness to act out their ultra-violent threats are forcing the agenda. Moderate muslims need to wrest the PR for their faith back from these guys. I've often said that only muslims
can sort out the fundamentalist malaise of modern Islam.

Incidentally op-ed, pop-ed..whatever, the man can legitimately give vent to these opinions. Don't attempt to relativise the death threats by implying that his writings dont gel with your perceptions of muhammed or islam. Most of what he said, while not what you might want to hear about mohammed, have historical basis in fact.

As for the BS, will do my best, no doubt you'll keep me honest Hobbes!

Sand

Oh lordy mama. Made up rubbish time. I can assure you that the nazis here would kick your head in if you suggested to their faces that they were lefties of any kind. It's off topic so start a new thread on that please. I wouldn't mind a good laugh.

Quite.

Right on cue.

What an engaging and insightful contribution. Focus on an aside in brackets, ignore and refuse to counter the post and instead engage in distraction in an attempt to drag discussion off topic. All whilst posing as some defender of the thread topic, meanwhile trying to frame the debate as being whose in the BNP and whose not. Well done.

What is your point

He doesnt have one, that should be clear by now. Other than painting everyone who disagrees with him as a closet BNP party member.

I assure you he doesn't know what he's talking about.

When you figure out how to reconcile nazis totalarian state with anarcho-capitalism lack of a state you let me know. Make sure to open a new thread though - Id prefer if you stopped trying to make a one line aside in a 3 paragraph post the topic of the thread.

Islamic Jihadists are without doubt a very serious problem that needs to be dealt with but lets not lose sight of the fact that they are not the only threat we face.

They are however the threat being discussed here, and the threat thats blowing up tube trains, flying planes into buildings and cutting peoples head off for distribution via the internet...In terms of relative threat/immediacy the jihadists tend to take precedence.

The whole left/right thing is not really an issue for Jihadists. They dont really relate to it, so trying to analyse them or a response to jihadist idealogy through it is not helpful.

fly_agaric

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

What is political correctness?

To copy you - that would be a matter for another thread. In fact I'm sure its probably been done to death here already.

I think I'll chicken out now and remind myself not to post in one of these "Islam/muslims" threads again.

Sgt. Sensible

Sand wrote:

He doesnt have one, that should be clear by now. Other than painting everyone who disagrees with him as a closet BNP party member.

Obviously racism, bigotry, xenophobia and the like are not confined to supporters of the likes of the BNP. Those latent tendencies are what Griffin says he wants to tap into. Mainstream parties then can either do something positive, do nothing and allow the far right to grow or else pander to racism.

No actual constructive suggestions from anyone about what should be done to stop johnny muslim rubbing himself against our women and destroying 'our values' I notice. Why's that then I wonder.

When you figure out how to reconcile nazis totalarian state with anarcho-capitalism lack of a state you let me know. Make sure to open a new thread though - Id prefer if you stopped trying to make a one line aside in a 3 paragraph post the topic of the thread.

I said open a new thread if you want to BS about off topic screwball historical revisionism and made up nonsense terms like 'anarcho-capitalism'. The conspiracy theories forum is probably most appropriate.

toomevara

Interesting article on recent controversies in today's Guardian;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1887929,00.html

Hobbes

toomevara wrote:

Moderate muslims need to wrest the PR for their faith back from these guys.

Which doesn't help when the mainstream media only advertise this minority as you say.

Don't attempt to relativise the death threats by implying that his writings dont gel with your perceptions of muhammed or islam.

I did neither. He wrote a purposely an imflammatory piece, which was badly researched and he wonders why people get pissed off with him.

None of it was actual fact. If you think otherwise please feel free to point out what parts. Bare in mind you are defending his actual comments not your interpretation of those comments.

Captain Trips

Hobbes wrote:

I did neither. He wrote a purposely an imflammatory piece, which was badly researched and he wonders why people get pissed off with him.

.

Ah come on, it wasn't that inflammatory really. It would have been worse if he let out that "Allah" was one of many pre-Islam arab gods, and that Allah is the Moon-god. Hence, the Quran starting and ending with the crescent moon, ramadan starting and ending with the crescent moons, etc., similar reason why the crescent moon is on the Turkish flag, etc., etc., .

The strongest tribe at the time believed Allah the Moon-god to be the most powerful of all gods. Mohammad latched onto this and QED, Islam.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp

Ooer! Now THAT is inflammatory! Puts Jack Straw and headscarves in perspective!

Sand

Thats a hilarious cartoon - I especially love the last part

Newly Converted Christian Guy: "I must tell my people about the moon god...and about the glorious Christ who saves sinners, and is coming soon"
Christian Missionary Guy: "It may cost you your life"
Newly Converted Christian Guy: "It will be worth it, because I'll be with my loving Father in heaven for all eternity (See Luke 9:23-24)

Hes only converted 5 seconds and already hes already a bible expert and ready to die for the cause...only this time its for the forces of Good!

The_Scary_Man

Its a pity they can't apply the same type of investigation to their own icons, most Christian iconography was 'borrowed' from earlier belief systems e.g. Son of God comes from Sun God complete with the solar halo.

The Egyptian sun god Horus, who predated the Christ character by thousands of years, shares the following in common with Jesus:

*
Isis and HorusHorus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
*
His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph"). Seb is also known as "Geb": "As Horus the Elder he...was believed to be the son of Geb and Nut." Lewis Spence, Ancient Egyptian Myths and Legends, 84.
*
He was of royal descent.
*
At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.
*
Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.
*
He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").
*
He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.
*
Horus walked on water.
*
His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."
*
He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."
*
Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
*
He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
*
He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God's Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.
*
He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.
*
He came to fulfill the Law.
*
Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One."
*
Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."

Furthermore, inscribed about 3,500 years ago on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kneph, the "Holy Ghost," impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended by three kings, or magi, bearing gifts. In addition, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis--the original "Madonna and Child."

From The Christ Conspiracy

How many Christians do you think we could convert back to the Ancient Egyptian belief systems? The sooner people realise its all mythology the sooner we can build some bridges.