Picking up someone else's internet????

Moriarty

If it's done with the owners consent, it's fine (aslong as it's ok with their broadband suplier too, as watty says). If the owner hasn't given consent for you to connect to their wireless network, you're breaking the law.

jimmycrackcorm

Moriarty wrote:

If it's done with the owners consent, it's fine (aslong as it's ok with their broadband suplier too, as watty says). If the owner hasn't given consent for you to connect to their wireless network, you're breaking the law.

but which law?

watty

It's theft. Same as stealing someones gas, electric, or phone supply.

phil

Leave your wireless LAN open and have some fun:

http://ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html

Phil.

BendiBus

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

but which law?

And if I'm sitting in a cafe and I turn on my laptop & it finds an open connection, how am I to know if I'm allowed to use it or not? I'm not a wifi techie, I just turn on the computer and try to go to a website. It either works or it doesn't.

zoro

I found a pc on my wireless network recently. I had reset the router to default settings and forgotten about the wireless network completely for a couple of days.

Only after I saw the disco-light effect of constant network traffic did I think to check the security settings. Sure, I left the network wide open to anyone at all, but I also deleted all the music and "My documents" contents on the pc that was "stealing my megahurtz".

Dirty thieving robbing bastards. I should've done alot more to that pc.

phil

No, you shouldn't have. You're just as bad for touching his machine as you suspect he is.

If there are a number of strong connections in the area surrounding you, wireless cards will often pick the strongest one, or if the user doesn't know the difference between the SSID's being advertised he may have selected yours by accident. If you left your network without security, you may have invited someone to use it (by accident) without them knowing any better. That said, maybe not, it depends.

But what you did is still childish regardless.

Voipjunkie

esel wrote:

Define 'our lifetime'.

A couple of billion years

zoro

phil wrote:

But what you did is still childish regardless.

Yup. But it felt damn good.

John1000

zora,
How did you access the "My Documents" folder on his PC?
I use wireless access at uni. and I would hate to think anyone
could come along and delete my precious files while I was connected.

Isn't what you did more illegal than the guy/girl who may
have just accessed your wlan accidedely ?

zoro

Twas actually the Shared Documents now that I think about it. Sorry for the mixup

Peanut

watty wrote:

It's theft. Same as stealing someones gas, electric, or phone supply.

It's hardly that black & white.

dub45

Peanut wrote:

It's hardly that black & white.

Why is it not as clear as day? If its not your own network you have no right to access it. If a person leaves their hall door open is it ok to invite yourself in?

And if it happened to be your network that someone was accessing I presume you would be fine with it?

dub45

zoro wrote:

Yup. But it felt damn good.

So a couple of guys meet you in the street rob you kick the s*** out of you and walk away rubbing their hands and one says 'Maybe we shouldnt have done that?' and the others say 'No but it felt damn good' and you would be ok with that?:rolleyes:

dub45

BendiBus wrote:

And if I'm sitting in a cafe and I turn on my laptop & it finds an open connection, how am I to know if I'm allowed to use it or not? I'm not a wifi techie, I just turn on the computer and try to go to a website. It either works or it doesn't.

Presumably you are an intelligent moral human being who knows that a network like that is not for general use? Just the same as if you were sitting in this magic restaurant and found a credit card you would know it was not for your use?

And restauarants who provide internet facilities for their customers normally advertise that fact no?

Foxwood

dub45 wrote:

Presumably you are an intelligent moral human being who knows that a network like that is not for general use?

Presumably you are an intelligent moral human being who knows that a network that is not for general use is not accessibe to the public?

If you disable the default encryption on your wireless router, you'd find it very difficut to prove that you weren't making your network available for public use. It's not illegal to walk into a bank or a shopping centre, even though they are clearly "private property".

dub45

Foxwood wrote:

Presumably you are an intelligent moral human being who knows that a network that is not for general use is not accessibe to the public?

If you disable the default encryption on your wireless router, you'd find it very difficut to prove that you weren't making your network available for public use. It's not illegal to walk into a bank or a shopping centre, even though they are clearly "private property".

And you walk into the bank and have a look at the money lying around and sensibly walk out presumably?

But who is to say there was ever a default encryption in the first place? and as I asked earlier is it permissible to walk into a person's house who has left their front door open? steal an unlocked bike (or is that to be regarded as an invitation to take it maybe?

You would not see anything wrong then with a person driving off in car that has been left unlocked and with the key in the accelerator? (no matter how silly it may be for someone to leave a car like that?)

Foxwood

dub45 wrote:

And you walk into the bank and have a look at the money lying around and sensibly walk out presumably?

But who is to say there was ever a default encryption in the first place? and as I asked earlier is it permissible to walk into a person's house who has left their front door open?

You say it's like walking into someones house, I say it's like walking into a shopping centre. They are both private property. The difference is that most private homes have locked doors, and most shopping centres have open doors. Just as most private networks have need a key to access, whereas public networks don't.

steal an unlocked bike (or is that to be regarded as an invitation to take it maybe?

If you put a sign on it saying "Free bike, please take it!" then then there wouldn't be a problem, would there.

You would not see anything wrong then with a person driving off in car that has been left unlocked and with the key in the accelerator? (no matter how silly it may be for someone to leave a car like that?)

Would you see anything wrong with someone getting on a free bus and riding it to their destination?

The only unequivically illegal action described in this thread is the unathorized deletion of files on someone elses computer.

Voipjunkie

dub45 wrote:

Why is it not as clear as day? If its not your own network you have no right to access it. If a person leaves their hall door open is it ok to invite yourself in?

And if it happened to be your network that someone was accessing I presume you would be fine with it?

It is not as black and white as that it is more like overhearing someones radio if you dont want anyone to hear what you are listening to put some headphones on if you blast out the radio people are going to hear it.

If you choose not to secure your network people are going to access it either accidentally or on purpose but it is your property so if you dont want anyone to access it secure it.


yes you should be able to leave your hall door open but in the real world we know that if you do that the chances are your contents will be gone in the morning however with an unsecure network someone could be accessing it by mistake

dub45

Foxwood wrote:

You say it's like walking into someones house, I say it's like walking into a shopping centre. They are both private property. The difference is that most private homes have locked doors, and most shopping centres have open doors. Just as most private networks have need a key to access, whereas public networks don't.

If you put a sign on it saying "Free bike, please take it!" then then there wouldn't be a problem, would there.

Would you see anything wrong with someone getting on a free bus and riding it to their destination?

The only unequivically illegal action described in this thread is the unathorized deletion of files on someone elses computer.

Yes but if you walk into a shopping center by definiton you are there with permission no? thats unless you are there after hours of course.

Of course not if there is a sign saying please take me or please travel in me as the case may be but then open networks do not appear on pcs or laptops saying please join me and use my owners resources.

Voipjunkie

dub45 wrote:

You would not see anything wrong then with a person driving off in car that has been left unlocked and with the key in the accelerator? (no matter how silly it may be for someone to leave a car like that?)

What kind of car have you got you put your keys in the accelerator??:D

Of course no one should take the car but the person who left it like that would bear a large portion of the blame for losing the car and you would have to consider that the person may not have cared whether the car was stolen or not or may have intended sharing their car with strangers

Voipjunkie

dub45 wrote:

Of course not if there is a sign saying please take me or please travel in me as the case may be but then open networks do not appear on pcs or laptops saying please join me and use my owners resources.

They dont have a sign saying no entry either often on laptops for example they will connect to the best signal that might be a neighbours without you even knowing
Has that person done anything wrong no

dub45

Voipjunkie wrote:

They dont have a sign saying no entry either often on laptops for example they will connect to the best signal that might be a neighbours without you even knowing
Has that person done anything wrong no

You dont know what signal your laptop has connected to?

dub45

Voipjunkie wrote:

What kind of car have you got you put your keys in the accelerator??:D

Of course no one should take the car but the person who left it like that would bear a large portion of the blame for losing the car and you would have to consider that the person may not have cared whether the car was stolen or not or may have intended sharing their car with strangers

Exactly!:)

zoro

dub45 wrote:

So a couple of guys meet you in the street rob you kick the s*** out of you and walk away rubbing their hands and one says 'Maybe we shouldnt have done that?' and the others say 'No but it felt damn good' and you would be ok with that?:rolleyes:

Not comparing like with like here are you?
Using your own example - if a couple of guys (strangers, ofc) walked into my house uninvited (the door was open, but that's hardly an invitation now is it?) I wouldn't feel bad about beating them either. Would you?

Providing of course it would be possible to overpower them, but that's just a technicality

Moriarty

I see stupid people.