Alfa Romeo 146 TS 1.4L (1999)

microgirl

Hey, can anyone recommend/advise against this car? I've seen one advertised that I'm interested in and have been looking online at some reviews, but most I can find are British and thus don't deal with the 1.4L engine, since that was only in the European and Irish markets.

Most of what I've read on the 1.6L I presume translates across to the 1.4L, so what I'm really wondering about is handling - is the 1.4L engine big enough for the car? I don't need masses of oomph (technical term there ) but I'd like to be able to overtake handily enough and not to have to deal with it being sluggish (and I know nothing about what sort of power mid-sized hatchbacks need, as I currently drive a tiny little Suzuki Swift.)

Also, my only other vague knowledge of Italian cars is the Fiat, which even now my mechanic tells me to steer away from (are they not meant to have improved?) - is the Alfa Romeo more reliable or is it as likely to get wonky electronics/other minor or major hiccups on a regular basis?

Ta

Kersh

My gf bought a 1999 146 1.4ts 2 weeks ago. I know Alfas reputation, and I actually warned her off it, but she insisted it was lovely and the car for her. So I said we would go see it, and it was a peach, all electrics work, drives great, cambelt just done, plenty of receipts.
But, and its a big one, I am waiting for the phone call at some stage from her that she is stranded somewhere etc etc.
But the one we got does her fine. Bring a knowledgeable mechanic with you. definitely.

bazz26

microgirl wrote:

Hey, can anyone recommend/advise against this car? I've seen one advertised that I'm interested in and have been looking online at some reviews, but most I can find are British and thus don't deal with the 1.4L engine, since that was only in the European and Irish markets.

Most of what I've read on the 1.6L I presume translates across to the 1.4L, so what I'm really wondering about is handling - is the 1.4L engine big enough for the car? I don't need masses of oomph (technical term there ) but I'd like to be able to overtake handily enough and not to have to deal with it being sluggish (and I know nothing about what sort of power mid-sized hatchbacks need, as I currently drive a tiny little Suzuki Swift.)

Also, my only other vague knowledge of Italian cars is the Fiat, which even now my mechanic tells me to steer away from (are they not meant to have improved?) - is the Alfa Romeo more reliable or is it as likely to get wonky electronics/other minor or major hiccups on a regular basis?

Ta

As with any Alfa and most cars if it has been looked after well by the previous owners then it should be fine. This means make sure it has a full documented service history. If it doesn't then walk away.

Alfa Romeos are very unforgiving if they are not maintained properly and on time. A weak point in them is the timing belt which should be changed about every 36k miles so check the service history for receipts of this but factor into your budget for a new one too. Also make sure all electrics work.

Cannot answer your question about the 1.4 litre but the best thing to do is take it for an extensive test drive including some safe overtaking maneuvers. You will soon get the feel of it and know if the engine struggles or not. Regarding your Fiat question, Alfa Romeo have been owned by Fiat for many years now.

There are plenty of Alfa Romeo owners or past owners on here who will have lots of valuable advice. Best of luck. BTW how much is the car selling for?

P.S. I hope this doesn't turn into another Alfa: Good v Evil thread.

Anan1

I got a 99 146 1.4TS one for a female friend in March of 2003. Like Kersh, I tried to talk her out of it but she wanted one and that was that! The car has been largely faultless over the past 20k miles and 3 1/2 years, and she still loves it. I drove it a couple of weeks ago, and the 1.4 engine is quick, characterful and rev-happy. (I drive a Mercedes C280). To be honest, it's hard not to smile when driving it! Make sure yours has been serviced properly (cambelts every 36k), as Alfas are very intolerant of haphazard maintenance. I'd recommend you call Gerry Campbell in TI Autos, I'm sure he'd check the car over before you part with your money. Hope this helps.

mikedragon32

It's been a while since we had an alfa thread.

Where's the popcorn?

colm_mcm

For the level of money the car is worth, I'd say "go for it". I had a 146 and apart from it breaking all the time, it was a brilliant car (In a kinda Fiat Tipo. kinda way)

bloke

Hi Microgirl,

I bought a '00 146 1.4TS with 24k on the clock in 2003, and had it for two years before upgrading to a 156. During that time I put up 24k miles on the car.

BEfore going inot the oily bits - I absolutely loved that car. The 1.4 is one of the pokiest free-revving 1.4s around. it puts out 103bhp, similar numbers to many other 1.6 or even 1.8s! (the vw golfs of the same year put out ~70bhp). The TS uses variable valve timing to give the extra power, meaning it's an exciting car to rev towards the red line! 103bhp in a relatively light car is more than enough. My 156 has a lot more power but is heavier and softer - the 146 was definitely more fun on a challenging road... The handling is extremely good, and the steering is usual alfa - very direct and "quick".

The bad side of this performance and handling is a slightly thrashy ride on bad surfaces and fairly bad consumption for a 1.4 (I got early thirties MPG at best).

Onto the mech bits - alfa servicing is expensive. As mentioned, the cambelt *must* be changed every 36k and it's more awkward to do than most. Tensioner and idler should be changed at the same time as it is often failure in the tensioner that shreds a belt.

Many cars of that age had a poor quality "variator" fitted (a hydraulic device that makes the variable valve timing work). To tell if the variator is gone, listen for a loud "diesel rattle" for a few seconds on startup. The car will run fine for a long time with a noisy variator (and when it completely fails you just lose some power) however the noise is quite embarrassing :-) The variator costs ~€200 for the part, and fitting involves removing the belts - so both are often done together. Apparently the new variators are better made - the original ones could fail within 20-30k.

Replacement of the belts, tensioner and variator cost me ~€850 AFAIR. not cheap. Only other things I needed over the two years was a noisy section of the exhaust replacing and tyres and brake pads. The car never let me down. Oh and just to note the alfas are complicated machines and are also fussy about getting a good quality oil. Hence I would also recommend Gerry in TI.

Also the TS has two spart plugs per cylinder (hence TS ) for a total of 8. They're platinum coated and *very* expensive. On the bright side they only need doing every 60k as opposed to sooner on most other cars. If the car is nearing 60k and hasn't had the plugs done, I would be looking to take €200 off.

The 99/00 146 is fantastic value at the moment thanks to the bad reputation people gleefully propagate :-) IMO the amount you save on the purchase more than makes up for higher servicing and consumption costs. Not to mention that the car looks and drives better than anything else in the bracket.

Seek out a car that has just had the belts (and preferably) variator, and all 8 plugs done. If not, budget (and haggle) appropriately - get a quote first. A FSH is very nice to get although the cars are getting older and many will only have partial. I would consider receipts from Gerry in TI as being preferable to an Alfa SH! It also shows someone who has gone to the bother to look after the car properly.

Other notes on buying:
- Try to get the "sport" kit that came in in 99 and is on all 00s. (subtle) side-skirts, body coloured everything, fogs, nice alloys etc. Most also have a discreet rear spoiler.
- Make sure you get two red keys and a brown master key. They have chip security and you cannot get copies without the brown key - and must pay the alfa dealer €€€ to do so. TBH if the brown key was missing but there were two reds, I'd take the risk if the price was right.
- The 1.6 and 1.8 are going even cheaper than the 1.4s, and aren't much worse on juice. If insurance isn't a big issue they might be worth considering. They're very quick
- The boot often moves out of alignment a bit. Easily fixed but possible bargaining point. Next time you see a 146, have a look!

Oh and Keep an eye on the inside edges of the front tyres - the tracking if off a little can eat the inside edges leaving the visible tyre perfect! Could be a bargaining point if you spot it.

Apologies for the huge post but hopefully it'll prove useful!

jayok

Ok, just to give you the dark side... this is the same post I gave Kersh.

Ok my missus had a 00 146 Sport Pack and here's what I noticed:

Pros
----
1. Very comfortable car - could do a long drive on it and still feel refreshed
2. The 1.4 T-spark was great fun, a hoot to drive!
3. Economy wasn't bad given the DOHC of it.
4. Alloys and Spots were standard on this

Cons
----
1. It didn't seem that well put together - honestly
2. Visibility out the rear window was poor
3. Wiper's weren't great
4. The A-pillar was a huge blind spot
5. Expensive to service at a main Alfa dealer (twice the sparks!)

Ok, now for the other bits experienced, that are not necessarly cons of the car but this specific car we had (not an Alfa bashing thread). Seperately from the above we suffered three failures of the car within the 24 months of owning it:

1. Coolant Leak @ 13k,
2. Gearbox Failuire @ 18k
3. Oil seal leak @ 27k

All on a car 24 months old with 27k miles a bit much. Again, it could be that we were unlucky with the particular car, maybe not all 146s are like that, but during the case with Alfa, ended up speaking to other 146 owners who were suffering similar problems. Maybe we were just all unlucky So the question is: "Do you feel lucky?"

redman

Alfas are fantastic, enjoy !

Ti Autos is your man for servicing.

Once it's been cared for and you continue that care, it will reward far more than most cars.

Go onto www.alfaowner.com for more advice with a larger user base.

JHMEG

microgirl wrote:

Also, my only other vague knowledge of Italian cars is the Fiat, which even now my mechanic tells me to steer away from

Alfa = Fiat. The Fiat badge under the bonnet of every Alfa is a constant reminder of that!

junkyard

If you enjoy spending all your money fixing it and all your time waiting to get it fixed I'd say go for it too, but if you want something to replace your Suzuki Swift buy something Japanese again.

Mailman

Get the lowest milage example you can find. An abused or even neglected Alfa will break your heart. An Alfa with 20K miles less on the clock is worth much more because the gamble of buying the car is then less risky.

If I buy an Alfa ever again it will be one that has covered less than moderate milage - I inherited my Alfa problems from the previous feckless owner and it ruined my period of ownership.

colm_mcm

JHMEG wrote:

Alfa = Fiat. The Fiat badge under the bonnet of every Alfa is a constant reminder of that!

where is the Fiat badge?

JHMEG

colm_mcm wrote:

where is the Fiat badge?

Along the front

Anan1

JHMEG wrote:

Along the front

Of what?

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

The Fiat badge under the bonnet of every Alfa

Sure FIAT owns Alfa Romeo. FIAT owns Ferrari too...

Can't say I've noticed any FIAT badge under the bonnet of any Alfa though, let alone any Ferrari

BrianMVP

Do yourself a favour hun, avoid these cars like the plague. They are aweful cars cause nothin but problem..... i know, i know wot ur gonna say...... but they look cute hahaha they dont.... uve no taste ha. Get a nice Japanese car and u cant go wrong

Anan1

BrianMVP wrote:

Do yourself a favour hun, avoid these cars like the plague. They are aweful cars cause nothin but problem..... i know, i know wot ur gonna say...... but they look cute hahaha they dont.... uve no taste ha. Get a nice Japanese car and u cant go wrong

Well there you have it, folks. Drunken illiterates don't like Alfas.

JHMEG

Anan1 wrote:

Of what?

Guess

Anan1

JHMEG wrote:

Guess

*yawn*

Sonnenblumen

an 05 D 156 was in front of me in traffic last week. I couldn't but help noticing that a rust streak was evident from the area around badge.

Draw your own conclusions.

Sonnenblumen

mikedragon32 wrote:

It's been a while since we had an alfa thread.

Where's the popcorn?

There might be some shocking scenes better get some drinks as well!!:D

redman

Sonnenblumen wrote:

an 05 D 156 was in front of me in traffic last week. I couldn't but help noticing that a rust streak was evident from the area around badge.

Draw your own conclusions.

Ha ha ha

Keep trying , someone might listen to you

miju

i own a 00 alfa 146 and i love the car and really cant fault it in any way shape or form they are great to drive, go for it but just look after it

and for all those telling you that alfas are unreliable have a look through previous threads on the motor forum for everyones problems with their VW golf's , toyotas etc, etc which of course are more "reliable"

bottom line just look after your car whether it's an alafa or different brand

junkyard

Here's are a few questions though, why are they worthless when you go to trade them in? Why don't car dealers what to trade them in?
I'm beginning to think the same people who vote for Fianna Fail buy Alfa's, very forgiving bunch don't you think?:D :rolleyes:

Sonnenblumen

redman wrote:

Ha ha ha

Keep trying , someone might listen to you

Judging by the posts most of the trying is around keeping these cars going !

alias no.9

Sonnenblumen wrote:

an 05 D 156 was in front of me in traffic last week. I couldn't but help noticing that a rust streak was evident from the area around badge.

Draw your own conclusions.

Given that the chassis and all external steel body pannels are galvanised, I'd imagine you where either looking at badly repaired crash damage or possibly just a figment of your imagination. We've all heard the one about the alfa sud that got faster as the months rolled on but you really need to stop listening to your fathers mates who tell you about rusting italian cars. Perhaps a little research into electrochemical corrosion mechanisms might help you understand a little more. I can recommend a list of websites

http://www.corrosionsource.com/index.htm
http://corrosion.ksc.nasa.gov/index.htm
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/
http://www.corrosion-club.com/index.html

but given your previous contributions on this forum, maybe you should start at

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question445.htm

Anan1

junkyard wrote:

Here's are a few questions though, why are they worthless when you go to trade them in? Why don't car dealers what to trade them in?
I'm beginning to think the same people who vote for Fianna Fail buy Alfa's, very forgiving bunch don't you think?:D :rolleyes:

The 99 Alfa 146 I picked up cost €5,500 in March 2003. I've no idea what it's worth now, but if it's only worth €2,000 then it's been cheap motoring at €1,000 pa. What did your X5 lose in the past year?;)

junkyard

Anan1 wrote:

The 99 Alfa 146 I picked up cost €5,500 in March 2003. I've no idea what it's worth now, but if it's only worth €2,000 then it's been cheap motoring at €1,000 pa. What did your X5 lose in the past year?;)

I actually sold my X5 recently to make way for a Range Rover in January and I sold it for more than I paid for it in February because of a price hike since. Sorry to disappoint you there Anan1 but the trick when buying cars is to get in and out at the right time.;)
P.S. My M5 is still worth what I paid for it too.

Anan1

junkyard wrote:

I actually sold my X5 recently to make way for a Range Rover in January and I sold it for more than I paid for it in February because of a price hike since. Sorry to disappoint you there Anan1 but the trick when buying cars is to get in and out at the right time.;)
P.S. My M5 is still worth what I paid for it too.

Not at all, I'm happy for you! (well, at least regarding the M5;) )To get back to your original point regarding Alfa depreciation, though, although you are of course completely correct regarding new or newish cars, it doesn't really stand for a 99 Alfa 146.

junkyard

Anan1 wrote:

Not at all, I'm happy for you! (well, at least regarding the M5;) )To get back to your original point regarding Alfa depreciation, though, although you are of course completely correct regarding new or newish cars, it doesn't really stand for a 99 Alfa 146.

Well yes fair enough but I still feel people could do better with their choice of car. I really think people who buy Alfas are in some way blinded by the marques racing history or their links to Ferrari and put up with a lot of problems as a result. I would put them at the bottom of the heap with Rover, Volkswagen and Lada. And just before anyone rushes in to defend Volkswagen, don't bother I have all the proof I need at the moment, a 2000 Bora with 43k miles with a knackered engine, a box of failed componants from various Golfs and Passats and a 2003 Golf with a seized gearbox.:(