Alfa Romeo 146 TS 1.4L (1999)

bruki

Hi folks
Bought a 97 146 1.6 TS half a year ago and payd 1100.
I was prepared for lots of repair expenses and little fiddly problems but it wasn't that bad. I've just done the nct and it passed!
All i've ever fixed was:
relay for rear window heating
heating (only broken handle mechanism)
I still need to get the alignment done, the steering rack is a little bit off...

The visibility is kinda crap but i got myself them mini mirrors to stick on the existing one. they reduce the blind angle big time.

What I would suggest for pretty much every 4 wheel car (if it's not a tractor or a truck) to buy one of them stabiliser bars. They make the steering a looooot stiffer and way more fun to drive. All the pathholes on the backroads are just a pain on the t*ts...

Other than that, I got to say the car is great. Drive's lovely, comfty, enough room for a pusbike, shopping, moving,...

Somebody was saying a couple of treads ago somethn about variator that makes diesel rattlin on startup when it's gone. Is that true? my yoke does that. Do I have to replace somet'n?

cjt156

The variator (alters valve timing) wears and causes the "diesel rattle" on startup for a few seconds until oil pressure builds. It won't do any harm, even when it completely fails you'll just lose power. The fix is a replacement, but you need to put on new timing belt. So when your belt change is due (every 36k miles) have the variator changed too. Not a cheap job by the way - but the belts are essential as if one goes you could be deep in the brown sticky stuff!

Lex Luthor

bloke wrote:

Also the TS has two spart plugs per cylinder (hence TS ) for a total of 8. They're platinum coated and *very* expensive. On the bright side they only need doing every 60k as opposed to sooner on most other cars. If the car is nearing 60k and hasn't had the plugs done, I would be looking to take €200 off.

Add another €100 to that plus labour in any Alfa dealership.

I can only speak from experience on my 156 that I've owned since new from 2000. If you keep them very well maintained, they will pay you back in kind. If they are neglected, then they will break your heart. A lot of good advice here and you should listen to it. If the car has very little or no service history, then I would walk away, no matter how cheap and nice it looks. If it has a good service history with plenty receipts all the better, then if the price is right, you could get a few years out of it hassle free.

My sister bought one new in 1999. It gave her endless trouble always cutting out in mid traffic and was back at the dealers numerous times and they could never diagnose the problem. Eventually, 1 yr later they replaced it for her with a new one, which wasn't much better. She's been driving Toyotas ever since.

However, the 99 car she bought showed up at a house in the next estate of mine 3yrs ago, 150miles away from where my sister had it. I see the car around all the time and it looks fantastic and maybe the problem was solved after she handed it back. I don't know if it has given the current owners any hassle, but to say they've had it 3yrs, says they must be happy with it.

The only thing I didn't like about the 146 was the driving position. There was no height adjustment on the drivers seat which meant you felt like you were sitting very high up.

Anan1

Lex Luthor wrote:

My sister bought one new in 1999. It gave her endless trouble always cutting out in mid traffic and was back at the dealers numerous times and they could never diagnose the problem. Eventually, 1 yr later they replaced it for her with a new one, which wasn't much better. She's been driving Toyotas ever since.

However, the 99 car she bought showed up at a house in the next estate of mine 3yrs ago, 150miles away from where my sister had it. I see the car around all the time and it looks fantastic and maybe the problem was solved after she handed it back. I don't know if it has given the current owners any hassle, but to say they've had it 3yrs, says they must be happy with it.

The problem there may well have been the dealership rather than the car. On reflection, I'd go even further than your advice regarding service history - I'd only consider cars that had been serviced either by TI Autos or Alasta.

Lex Luthor

Anan1 wrote:

I'd go even further than your advice regarding service history - I'd only consider cars that had been serviced either by TI Autos or Alasta.

to a point....I've used TI Autos for the last few major services on my car but I'm coming up to the 2nd cambelt in 3-4 months and for me to drive to Gerry to be there at 8:30am from Naas is too much hassle. I got a recommendation from another Alfa driver who used George Frayne in Naas that was recommended to him by Gerry, so I'll be using him in future as he's only 5min drive from my house.

In between, major services, I've done all the minor stuff like oil/filters/plugs myself. I've kept the receipts for anything I bought and wrote in the service book the date/mileage the work was done. At least I have receipts to back it up as I feel me writing in a book is only as good as my word.

Plus, I always feel if someone has gone to the trouble of keeping every receipt for the work done on their car, then they have probably taken care of it.

Sonnenblumen

alias no.9 wrote:

Given that the chassis and all external steel body pannels are galvanised, I'd imagine you where either looking at badly repaired crash damage or possibly just a figment of your imagination. We've all heard the one about the alfa sud that got faster as the months rolled on but you really need to stop listening to your fathers mates who tell you about rusting italian cars. Perhaps a little research into electrochemical corrosion mechanisms might help you understand a little more. I can recommend a list of websites

http://www.corrosionsource.com/index.htm
http://corrosion.ksc.nasa.gov/index.htm
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/
http://www.corrosion-club.com/index.html

but given your previous contributions on this forum, maybe you should start at

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question445.htm

Well well, a white coat alfa enthusiast or what? Galvanic corrosion, really sad! But if you had a real car, just imagine what material you could be reading. A bit like choosing between will I go on holidays or really must fix that leaky roof. Except with alfas the list seems to go on and on and on....and

BTW I've done plenty of science, but your right about one thing my old man's mates probably said nothing good about an alfa, and I'd said their great grand children will also. You don't need a knowledge of science to qualify as a tosser, just drive the right machine and you'll get plenty of experiential learning the hard way!

But be careful unlike most cars, alfas appear to very delicate and are susceptable on anything but regular roads!

Lex Luthor

Sonnenblumen wrote:

an 05 D 156 was in front of me in traffic last week. I couldn't but help noticing that a rust streak was evident from the area around badge.

Draw your own conclusions.

why don't you tell us what your conclusions are seeing as you saw it?

alias no.9

Appoligies folks, I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but it's so much fun. I think I'll make this one my pet.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Well well, a white coat alfa enthusiast or what? Galvanic corrosion, really sad! But if you had a real car, just imagine what material you could be reading.

My reading on galvanic corrosion has nothing to do with any car I've ever owned. Yours, I'm guessing, didn't go further than the title. Maybe you should have read a little further, the action of zinc as a sacrificial anode is the key point if you need some help.

I am curious, however, what do you consider to be a 'real car'? What are the criteria?

Sonnenblumen wrote:

A bit like choosing between will I go on holidays or really must fix that leaky roof. Except with alfas the list seems to go on and on and on....and

Never had a leaky roof, never had a breakdown in an alfa, have lots and lots of holidays, can't get enough of the damn things, normaly get to 5 or 6 different countries a year.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

BTW I've done plenty of science,

No doubt you had determined your conclusions before running any experimentation.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

but your right about one thing my old man's mates probably said nothing good about an alfa, and I'd said their great grand children will also.

You reckon alfa will still be around in the days of your dad's mates great grand children, or certainly if they're not, the ones that are around now won't have rusted away? They cant be that bad then can they? Kind of contradicting yourself there, don't you think.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

You don't need a knowledge of science to qualify as a tosser

You're certainly living proof of that

Sonnenblumen wrote:

, just drive the right machine and you'll get plenty of experiential learning the hard way!

But be careful unlike most cars, alfas appear to very delicate and are susceptable on anything but regular roads!

I drive an alfa. I bought it for less than I would have paid for a micra of the same age and mileage. It costs very little to run except petrol. With the exception of routine servicing, which is piss easy to do DIY compared to some other cars I've worked on, I've spent a grand total of €45, which was for a suspension bushing I replaced for the NCT. It's never even needed to visit a garage workshop once.

I do have a lot to thank you for, all the same, think how much more my car would have cost if people realised that they're not nearly as bad as the likes of you make out. Keep up the good work, I fancy getting a nice 5 year old brera next, my trusty 156 will keep me going fine for the next few years.

prospect

Although I do not agree with JHMEG's negative sentiment;

My '05 147 has FIAT AUTO embossed in the silver card under the bonnet lid, just over the front grill.

To the OP,
Get it checked out, if it was well looked after, and serviced properly, it will be a joy to own.
If it has not been well cared for, then walk away. But this obviously applies to ANY second hand car.

prospect

junkyard wrote:

I actually sold my X5 recently to make way for a Range Rover in January and I sold it for more than I paid for it in February because of a price hike since. Sorry to disappoint you there Anan1 but the trick when buying cars is to get in and out at the right time.;)
P.S. My M5 is still worth what I paid for it too.

junkyard, you simply cannot compare a low volume, high performance, specialist car like the M5 with a high volume, small engined production car. It is silly.

I always wonder, if Alfas are so crap, etc. etc. Why does everyone automatically compare them to BMW's, which are supposedly so great?

so, to continue on that comparison:
I know of 2 guys who bought a new 2.0L 5 series with M pack, and a 2.5V6 166 in 2002. The BMW was €8K more expensive, even though it had a smaller engine, no leather, no cruise control, no climate control, no xenon lights, no built in phone, a skinny spare wheel (the alfa had a full alloy as spare) etc.
After 2.5 years, the BMW was worth €6.5K more than the Alfa.
Now that doesn't seem great value to me.

junkyard

Prospect, if your happy to spend your money on an Alfa Romeo feel free, I certainly won't stop you. Some one brought up the matter of comparing a BMW to an Alfa, not me I might add, I was just defending them as I have found the marque to be very satisfactory for my requirments. The point I always try to make is that there are far more reliable cars on the market and better value for money too, than Alfa Romeo.

JHMEG

prospect wrote:

Although I do not agree with JHMEG's negative sentiment;

My '05 147 has FIAT AUTO embossed in the silver card under the bonnet lid, just over the front grill.

Thank you prospect for verifying the FIAT badge thing! Some people need spoon feeding, which I'm not willing to do.

BTW, my sentiment wasn't meant to be negative (or positive)! I was merely pointing out the OP's contradiction of staying away from Fiat (for whatever reason) but a willingness to consider Alfa.

prospect

junkyard wrote:

Prospect, if your happy to spend your money on an Alfa Romeo feel free, I certainly won't stop you. Some one brought up the matter of comparing a BMW to an Alfa, not me I might add, I was just defending them as I have found the marque to be very satisfactory for my requirments. The point I always try to make is that there are far more reliable cars on the market and better value for money too, than Alfa Romeo.

Well,

I respect everyones on opinion and tastes when it comes to cars. I would never try to persuade anyone either way. If asked if I think a car is good or not, or if I like a car or not, I will give an honest and straight answer.

I must make two points regarding your comments above.

1. I would consider BMW's in general to represent some of the worst value for money in the market. They are good (not great) cars. But they are horrifically expensive, poorly equipped as standard, look terrible, and the sportiest of them are not much on irish roads.

2. There are certainly more reliable cars out there than Alfa Romeo. Honda & Mazda spring to mind. But, by the same rationale, they also wipe out BMW in terms of reliability.

My opinion only.

It is quite simple, the OP asked if the 1.4 was a good buy, and if it was a reasonable engine in the car. Some people have already voiced their experience of the engine, and it seems fine. Also, as with any second hand car, if it has been cared for properly, then it should be okay.

prospect

JHMEG wrote:

Thank you prospect for verifying the FIAT badge thing! Some people need spoon feeding, which I'm not willing to do.

BTW, my sentiment wasn't meant to be negative (or positive)! I was merely pointing out the OP's contradiction of staying away from Fiat (for whatever reason) but a willingness to consider Alfa.

I am a big Alfa fan, and really get annoyed when people make, frankly, untrue sweeping statements about them, when alot of the time they have no personal experience or knowledge of them.
However, I will always remain honest, and truthful in my statements, and I feel if everyone had the same approach, this forum would be a more productive place.

Also, don't forget, that all diesel GM cars will soon have a FIAT AUTO stamp on them aswell.

JHMEG

The WhatCar? reliability survey was very good, if anyone saw it. Based on warranty claims, as opposed to owners' perception.


Actual results are here:
http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=217350&EL=3142807

(Neither Alfa or BMW did well)

prospect

True, and the difference is less than 6 cars per 100.

mikedragon32

prospect wrote:

so, to continue on that comparison:
I know of 2 guys who bought a new 2.0L 5 series with M pack, and a 2.5V6 166 in 2002. The BMW was €8K more expensive, even though it had a smaller engine, no leather, no cruise control, no climate control, no xenon lights, no built in phone, a skinny spare wheel (the alfa had a full alloy as spare) etc.
After 2.5 years, the BMW was worth €6.5K more than the Alfa.
Now that doesn't seem great value to me.

Without wanting to get drawn into the arguement, do you by any chance, know how much each guy spent on running costs, repairs, servicing etc?

IMHO those figures need to be added to the equation before coming to any real conclusion.

Something else to consider is how easy it is to sell on when the time comes.

I'm totally neutral on this as I don't really like either marque.

Anan1

The Alfa would have been under warranty for the entire period so it's really down to running & servicing costs for it. The BMW would have spent the last 18 months out of warranty, though.

Lex Luthor

isn't it great that anytime a thread is started with the word Alfa in it, it gets more attention than anything else.

its like the government spending the last 2 weeks discussing Berties affairs and the rest of the business can take a back seat

miju

bruki wrote:

Hi folks
Somebody was saying a couple of treads ago somethn about variator that makes diesel rattlin on startup when it's gone. Is that true? my yoke does that. Do I have to replace somet'n?

aye my alfa had that prob with the diesel rattle on start up (if i remember correctly the guy in quickfit said something about the middle box on the exhuast going), but a new exhaust solved it with a 1 year gaurentee to boot, happy days

Lex Luthor wrote:

Add another €100 to that plus labour in any Alfa dealership.

they cost [url=http://shop.alfisti.net/Tuning-Styling/Alfa-145-146/Motor-Airfilters/NGK-Sparking-Plug-Set-for-TwinSpark-16V::1686.html[/url]€149[/url] for a full set and last for alot longer than normal ones

Lex Luthor

miju wrote:

aye my alfa had that prob with the diesel rattle on start up (if i remember correctly the guy in quickfit said something about the middle box on the exhuast going), but a new exhaust solved it with a 1 year gaurentee to boot, happy days



they cost [url=http://shop.alfisti.net/Tuning-Styling/Alfa-145-146/Motor-Airfilters/NGK-Sparking-Plug-Set-for-TwinSpark-16V::1686.html[/url]€149[/url] for a full set and last for alot longer than normal ones

I'm basing my pricing on teh plugs required for the 156 and they were looking for over €300 at the Alfa dealer for the 8 of them

alfarocks

Folks,

Its really quiet simple, if you don't have the skills or interest to left the bonnet every couple of weeks to check the oil then do yourself and Alfa a favour and not buy one.
You're better off with a japanese bland-o-box or german appliance.



my two Alfa's, '01 147 & '71 GTV are doing just fine, thanks for asking

JHMEG

If only it were as simple as checking the oil every couple of weeks....

miju

Lex Luthor wrote:

I'm basing my pricing on teh plugs required for the 156 and they were looking for over €300 at the Alfa dealer for the 8 of them

but we're not talking about the 156 we're talking about the 146 :rolleyes:

as an aside my alfa broke down this morning :mad: was only a flat battery that was 6 yrs old that was the prob though

prospect

To prove JHMEGs point:

Sonnenblumen

alias no.9 wrote:

Appoligies folks, I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but it's so much fun. I think I'll make this one my pet.



My reading on galvanic corrosion has nothing to do with any car I've ever owned. Yours, I'm guessing, didn't go further than the title. Maybe you should have read a little further, the action of zinc as a sacrificial anode is the key point if you need some help.

I am curious, however, what do you consider to be a 'real car'? What are the criteria?



Never had a leaky roof, never had a breakdown in an alfa, have lots and lots of holidays, can't get enough of the damn things, normaly get to 5 or 6 different countries a year.



No doubt you had determined your conclusions before running any experimentation.



You reckon alfa will still be around in the days of your dad's mates great grand children, or certainly if they're not, the ones that are around now won't have rusted away? They cant be that bad then can they? Kind of contradicting yourself there, don't you think.



You're certainly living proof of that



I drive an alfa. I bought it for less than I would have paid for a micra of the same age and mileage. It costs very little to run except petrol. With the exception of routine servicing, which is piss easy to do DIY compared to some other cars I've worked on, I've spent a grand total of €45, which was for a suspension bushing I replaced for the NCT. It's never even needed to visit a garage workshop once.

I do have a lot to thank you for, all the same, think how much more my car would have cost if people realised that they're not nearly as bad as the likes of you make out. Keep up the good work, I fancy getting a nice 5 year old brera next, my trusty 156 will keep me going fine for the next few years.

Dream on - the world is passing you by. When you sell your chariot you might be able to do a swap for a mountain bike. I don't give a monkey's on alfas, I agree with prevailing sentiments they are rust buckets and mechanical failures when compared to the relentless reliability of many other makes (irrespective of price bracket).

Whats more I've seen proof of their lousy resale value, so in my opinion, I fail to understand why anyone would buy one. I buy new cars so buying something that would qualify as trade sale (5 years +) is off my radar and any economics around such is flawed!! But why do people pay more for a VW Polo or an Opel Corsa, both very good cars that go and go?

It would not surprise me that within 10 years Alfa/Fiat will be relegated to a segment of cheapy Italian imports mainly purchased by emotion and not sense.

Mind your pet because it's only time when it will let you down and might be useful to always carry plenty of spares !! I'll wave when I'm passing!

prospect

Mods,

I am a bit sick and tired of this drivel every time Alfa is mentioned.

Now, there are regularly threads here from people having problems with their cars, other than Alfa/Fiat, but they are rarely hijacked with this half arzed, bullzhit.

So, I propose to come in on all those threads and ruin them with unfounded and made up baloney about that manufacturer. We will see how long it takes to get me banned. ( I notice no bans have been issued on these Alfa/Fiat threads, despite people clearly ignoring the charter whuich states: "Also abusive posts and continually posting off-topic content will not be tolerated either. This is not the place for spam and posting useless rubbish, post either to help someone out or to ask a question."

I own an Alfa, and love it. It is sporty, economical, stylish and reliable. However, if I did have a problem, I certainly would not post it on this website as I know I would get abuse and misinformation rather than assistance.

alias no.9

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Dream on - the world is passing you by. When you sell your chariot you might be able to do a swap for a mountain bike. I don't give a monkey's on alfas, I agree with prevailing sentiments they are rust buckets and mechanical failures when compared to the relentless reliability of many other makes (irrespective of price bracket).

You're very passionate for someone who claims to not care, someone who couldn't give a monkeys would surely be indifferent, would they not? Are you fighting a desire? You want one, but you're afraid to take a risk, afraid you can't distinguish between a good example and a bad one(there are undoubtedly some bad ones out there). The rust problems were overcome on all the fiat based alfa's. I've never had a breakdown. I know numerous other alfa owners who're happy with their purchases and don't suffer from rust or mechanical failure.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Whats more I've seen proof of their lousy resale value, so in my opinion, I fail to understand why anyone would buy one. I buy new cars so buying something that would qualify as trade sale (5 years +) is off my radar and any economics around such is flawed!!

While I hope people keep buying new ones, otherwise there'll be no secondhand bargains for me to snap up, I'd never recommend to someone to buy one new. I'll never fight that arguement. It's this massive depreciation that makes them a great second hand buy. Do tell us though, what do you drive that's so great?

Sonnenblumen wrote:

But why do people pay more for a VW Polo or an Opel Corsa, both very good cars that go and go?

Any car will go and go with the right maintenance. Any car can be a lemon and I've known people with many different cars that have been lemons. The reason people are attracted to cars like the polo or corsa is percieved lower running costs, mainly tax, insurance and fuel. Tax is obviously non negotiable, my insurance is perfectly reasonable these days, and fuel, on long runs I'll get close to 40mpg, on short runs it really depends on how you drive. So I guess the answer to your question is conservatism and fear of doing something different.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

It would not surprise me that within 10 years Alfa/Fiat will be relegated to a segment of cheapy Italian imports mainly purchased by emotion and not sense.

Whatever their future, I think you'll be wrong on that because if they're not made in significant enough numbers to be made in right hand drive, you'll see little or none in this country.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Mind your pet because it's only time when it will let you down and might be useful to always carry plenty of spares !! I'll wave when I'm passing!

The car is just a car, albeit very underrated by the masses and hence a great secondhand buy, but you're my pet, I plan on spending lots of time playing with you. You're so much fun. Cars come and go, but pets are for life. Now off to find some other threads to play with my little sunflower in.

Sonnenblumen

prospect wrote:

Mods,

I am a bit sick and tired of this drivel every time Alfa is mentioned.

I notice no bans have been issued on these Alfa/Fiat threads, despite people clearly ignoring the charter whuich states: "Also abusive posts and continually posting off-topic content will not be tolerated either. This is not the place for spam and posting useless rubbish, post either to help someone out or to ask a question."

QUOTE]

I agree, unless people can stick to the facts, exchange or discuss opinions or debate published data/reports without resorting to personal abuse because content is contrary to their own point of view, then yes in those circumstances on ehas to consider the point of alfa threads.