L&H Abortion Debate

Pythia

I read this on another website about the L&H abortion debate that was due to be held last Wed but was cancelled.

What do people think about this?

On Wednesday, some people in the L&H (Literary and Historical Society - the college debating union) received calls from members of Youth Defence, warning of violence if the evening's debate on abortion went ahead.

The L&H were unable to ensure the safety of the pro-choice speakers, so was forced to cancel the debate. One person received a text proposing a riot in the theatre where the debate was being held. The L&H put up notices saying that the debate was cancelled, but gave a different reason.

Riamfada

id be pro-life and I think its disgraceful that some people cant conduct themselves in a manner befitting third level students. However we have seen that a large number of pro-lifers in society are violent in their views. Stupid really because for me it pushed me to pro choice for years.

humbert

Where is that quoted from? If it's true, and I wouldn't be surprised, it makes me angry to think that such stupid people can affect the rest of us so easily.

Pythia

A thread on politics.ie

humbert

I saw the poster about the cancellation around campus, couldn't get a balance or something, didn't understand what was ment.

Riamfada

humbert wrote:

I saw the poster about the cancellation around campus, couldn't get a balance or something, didn't understand what was ment.

likewise but it seems more likely that the prolifers would go to such lengths to prevent people from being informed on the subject and to impose their ideas on the rest of the world.

Sangre

Well there is a lawsoc abortion debate for next week anyway.
Big man rich will protect us all.

Dave!

F*ckin scumbags!!!

The_Minister

Are you sure that this is true? On the newswire, they said it was due to an inbalence in the number of speakers.

griffdaddy

debates are very rarely if ever cancelled for an imbalance of speakers, you can always find a dummy speaker willing to stand in who can give some form of argument. i'd say we organise a prochoice rally on campus and flush out these idiots once and for all with a good kick up the arse. regardless of your views, they are the last thing you want to become

Dave!

hear hear!

fish-head

I'd be up for a good riot I think.. If it went ahead you could single out the Youth Defence people and have them banned from the college or expelled or whatever the proper protocol is.

Het-Field

God I hate Youth Defence and Anti Fascist Action. I really think its time we get Aine Ni Chonaill to campaign to deport all members of Youth Defence andAnti Fascist Action. Debates are about information and learning. Im totally pro life, and i subscribe to the consistent life ethic but i hate fascist organisations

Riamfada

its not like they havnt done stuff like this before

Indymedia wrote:

Anti-woman group youth defence have organised an anti-choice propaganda meeting for Monday 21st. Their intention was to cloud the abortion debate with falsities and inaccuracies. Earlier today members of youth defence were seen handing out their propaganda in UCD. Alliance for choice activists approached the group and informed them that they could not hand out that literature unless they were a society or even students. There activities were reported to arts services who upon receiving knowledge of this Services escorted the group off campus, and then cancelled the event organised by youth defence for Monday 21st.

typical action for people who cant actually support their points with logic

Sangre

The hypocrasy some of the above posters is deliciously ironic.

Het-Field

griffdaddy wrote:

debates are very rarely if ever cancelled for an imbalance of speakers, you can always find a dummy speaker willing to stand in who can give some form of argument. i'd say we organise a prochoice rally on campus and flush out these idiots once and for all with a good kick up the arse. regardless of your views, they are the last thing you want to become

Sorry, but your argument is not dis similer to that of Youth Defence. This business of a kick up the arse, and crushing the movement is fascism. Im Pro Life, but ill stand my ground and argue my point. Violence, coercion etc is just wrong. Im entitled to my view but i wont force it on top of people with a "gun to their head

The_Minister

The_Minister wrote:

Are you sure that this is true? On the newswire, they said it was due to an inbalence in the number of speakers.

It is possible that the two are related.

Het-Field

Well groups have often tried to infiltrate debates before so its always a possibility. Last year there was supposed to be an Immigration debate on the 9th November. However, it never went ahead because of certain reasons. They are contained in the link. So if there was any infiltration which contributed to the order paper being lopsided, it would not be beyond the realm of possibility. The L&H are a very noble organisation who want to debate and inform people, and provide topical and progressive debates. However, extremists have often tried to use it as a platform without being invited to speak. Disregard the title of the link. It is just lies. The fascists tried to infiltrate the debate of their own accord

http://www.ucdsu.net/newswire.php?story_id=637&results_offset=420

fatal

****!!!!
I saw the posters saying that it was going to be cancelled but presumed that it would be rescheduled,is that not the case?
Why are outsiders allowed to the debates anyway?Allowing only students that are members of the society being discussed would surely lessen the threat of such "riots"

Jonny Arson

I think after the Justin Barrett riot a couple of years ago L&H did absolutely the right thing for health safety (and publicity) reasons but sadly for the wrong reasons of curbing free speech and open discussion because of a few facist morons. Shame. Revenge from Youth Defence after the Justin Barret affair maybe??

Dave!

Haha I was gonna put that quote in my sig too Zane! Quality

Het-Field

fatal wrote:

****!!!!
I saw the posters saying that it was going to be cancelled but presumed that it would be rescheduled,is that not the case?
Why are outsiders allowed to the debates anyway?Allowing only students that are members of the society being discussed would surely lessen the threat of such "riots"

They arent, but they just turn up anyway. The internet makes it very easy for extremists to keep in contact, and weather they are coming to protest or incite they see it as theeir right to turn up.

Down with extremists

fatal

Het-Field wrote:

They arent, but they just turn up anyway. The internet makes it very easy for extremists to keep in contact, and weather they are coming to protest or incite they see it as theeir right to turn up.

Down with extremists

Id love to beat the crap outta a few of them if they decide to show up at future L&H debates and decide to "riot"

fatal

fatal wrote:

Id love to beat the crap outta a few of them if they decide to show up at future L&H debates and decide to "riot"

Yes, that'll show that you're much better then they are.

Het-Field

eh, dont think ill join ya on that one. One senses they have friends with jackboots and shaved heads

fish-head

Those kind of people just dont belong in a place of enlightenment and education.

The_Minister

Grimes wrote:

its not like they havnt done stuff like this before

typical action for people who cant actually support their points with logic

Grimes, that's from Indymedia, their articles tend to be as unbiased as an obituary. If it had been pro-choice people handing out leaflets then they would have been "heroes". I wouldn't trust indymedia for the weather let alone accusations against an organisation that is deeply unpopular with indymedia's audience.

Jonny Arson

University Observer 26th October 2004 edition ''L&H Debate ends in riot'' if anyone wants to give it a look

http://www.ucd.ie/observer/v11i04/v11i04.pdf

Lessons really had to be learned after that

griffdaddy

my post was not at all hypocritical, if it was, i would've said, let's kick the shít out of them for believing our views are wrong, whereas what i was getting at was let's kick the shít out them for being unruly prícks who wont allow poeple express their views regardless. the validity of someone's point of view is lost once they impose it on others by running around shouting shít and acting violently. To promote an enviroment conducive to open debate, idiots like them have to be removed, one way or another. i'd love to combat a group of violent and riled up, politicised, middle class díck heads with a point of information but the fact that they're rioting against free arguement negates that approach. if they came in during one of my debates and started acting up i'd have no problem using force to remove them, regardless of subject matter, be it that this house believes that the eurosaver menu is a false economy or that this house believes every woman has the right to choose. this argument of hoew to treat violent opposition just comes down to a matter of opinion at the end of the day, but i'm certainly no hypocrit. i understnad exactly where you're coming from though and can see how it could be perceived as being hypocritical

griffdaddy

Het-Field wrote:

Sorry, but your argument is not dis similer to that of Youth Defence. This business of a kick up the arse, and crushing the movement is fascism. Im Pro Life, but ill stand my ground and argue my point. Violence, coercion etc is just wrong. Im entitled to my view but i wont force it on top of people with a "gun to their head

i dont really think it would be fascism to crush these guys, they're point of view isnt valid, they're methods of demonstration are not valid, they are criminals and thugs and should be treated as such. they're well organised as was said before, and they disperse too quickly to have the guards do anything, i just think the best thing to is to try and beat some sense into them, which is not strictly illegal or unethical or hypocritical if they're the ones who began the violence

Het-Field

griffdaddy wrote:

i dont really think it would be fascism to crush these guys, they're point of view isnt valid, they're methods of demonstration are not valid, they are criminals and thugs and should be treated as such. they're well organised as was said before, and they disperse too quickly to have the guards do anything, i just think the best thing to is to try and beat some sense into them, which is not strictly illegal or unethical or hypocritical if they're the ones who began the violence

Well, last time a fascist had the **** beaten out of him in UCD was at Barrettgate. Justin Barrett, a former PRO of Youth Defence, was filmed at a Nationalist meeting in Germany in 2000. The meeting was held by many former Nazi sympathisers. Barrett had a high profile in the 1990's as a reuslt of the Divorce Referenda where he campainged on the No side. When his side were defeated, he screameds into an RTE camera "your all a bunch of wife swapping sodamites" He was equally prominant in the No to Nice campaign. However, during the second referenda he was discredited by the leek of his extreme right wing links.

Two years later he was speaking at an abortion debate with Aine Ni Chonaill, Phillip Watt and a woman called Denese something. Anyway Barrett, Joe Duffy and Richard Butler were all assaulted by a group of people who wished to squash the fascist arguments. However, it became clear that they were indeed the fascists.

Most fascists are just, as Conor McGowan of UCDSU would put it "keyboard warriors". They are too afraid to come out of the closet and make their feelings known in public. Barrett is a fascist (read his book "the national way forward), but on that evening Barrett didnt look like it