People who spend a fortune on pedigree pets- what the ****???

Mits

I have been looking for a dog. I have a young family and want a puppy as a family member. I believe it must be a puppy as I want my children to experience a the life cycle and want the puppy to bond with the family. I have chosen a pedigree dog because I want to insure certain traits in the dog.

I grew up with big dog’s collies, Alsatian, mongrels but the best dog I ever had was a Doberman Pincher. I would get another Doberman but I do not believe in putting a mussel on a dog. So I have decided on a golden retriever I was quoted €600 for the dog and it pedigree sound excellent. If I could get it cheaper I would but I need to be sure of the health of the dog and I am willing to pay for that.

bounty_hunter

Hi Mits
You sound like you've really thought a lot about this, well done.
I just wanted to mention that no matter how much you pay for your dog, this will never be a guarantee that your pet will be healthy. To a certain extent it will guarantee there there are no known hereditary issues, but no amount of careful breeding can ensure that an animal doesn't succumb to some kind of sickness during the course of its life.
As I said, I just wanted to mention this in case you hadn't considered it, so many people buy expensive pets thinking that the extra cost will ensure a hassle-free life, and then end up heartbroken or under financial strain when an unexpected illness raises its head

Best of luck!

peasant

on a bit of a side track ...

Taking in a dog from a pound / shelter is not as big a deal education and trainingwise as it is made out to be here.

On the other hand, raising and training a pup into a "proper" dog is much more work than some people realize.

In my experience it is actually easier to teach an older pound/shelter dog what is what around your place that to raise and train a pup.

The thing with training dogs is consistency. You have to be constant in your message all the time. No is always NO, every day and in every circumstance ...not "ok ...just this once", or "ah well, can't really blame him", or "I just cant be strict, he's so cute"

Dogs have a really fine antenna for the exception to the rule and soon they will manipulate you so much that the exception BECOMES the rule ...especially Puppies ...they are real masters at wrapping you around their little paws.

So it is a very, very hard job to raise a pup by conveying the same message and rules over and over for months on end and not stray from the path.

Plus it takes time (as in actual time spent with the dog) and commitment.

A lot of people think that if they only buy the "right brand" of dog, it will more or less automatically become just like the dogs in its breed description. They couldn't be further fom the truth.
Mistakes made during the raising of the pup (often only little inconsistencies) can add up to give you the dog from hell ...no matter WHAT its breed.


Now take an older dog from the pound/shelter.

The first advantage is: what you see is what you get. The dog is fully grown, you know what it looks like and its behaviour and character can be assessed.

When you take him home, his main interest will be to suss out as quickly as possible what the law of the land is, how he can fit in, and how he can bend the rules.

If you take an older dog home and you know what you're doing, set up your rules and stick to them ...within a few days you will have a perfectly behaved dog around the house and within a few weeks he will have sussed out the rest (like walking on a lead, general outside behaviour, etc) as well.


This is the beauty of dogs. As highly social animals their whole aim in life is to fit in somewhere. If you exploit this properly, don't mollycoddle or fuss over the new arrival but get the rules laid out clearly and sternly, your "new" dog will be your "best friend" before you know it.

TerrorFirmer

Carcharodon wrote:

Very narrow minded and self rightous views in my opinion.
Its not the person that bought the pure breeds fault that there are lots of unwanted dogs in Ireland.
We are all entitled to a choice and as long as these people treat their dogs with due care, then its not up to anyone else to judge them.

Sure if we were to take this view in all aspects of life, we would all be adopting children from all the overcrowded orphanages in the world, instead of having our own children....

We all know puppy mills are a disgrace and a unwanted dogs are as entitled to a home as any other but if someone wants to spend their money on a dog of their choice, its fine as long as they treat it the way it deserves

Bang on, that's what I was about to say. We've had several West Highland terriers and I see nothing wrong with that. Yes, it's terrible about all the strays that end up being put down, and it is a shame, but at the end of the day I love this particular breed. Now, thats not to say I don't love dogs, I do, and no matter what sort of a dog I see I always stop to play with it - situation allowing obviously. But given the choice of a beautiful pup that I have a fondness for and furthermore, know exactly how it will turn out or a mongrel that, despite my love for dogs, could potentially turn out to be any sort of creature, I know which option I'd chose, and there is nothing wrong with that either.

Nala, you are painting a fiercely black and white image that is almost dictating that people who purchase pedigree dogs are some class of ignorant snobs with no respect for animal welfare. I don't know if thats what you were aiming for, but it certainly comes across that way and it's rather silly.

I wonder if you would imply that Irish couples should cease to have children altogether and start adopting from orphanages around the world. Yes, its noble, does the world a great deed and incidentally, its how I want to have children someday - but I obviously still totally respect that regardless of its rewards its certainly not for everybody and there's nothing wrong with that.

Alfasudcrazy

Well if you want a particular dog - like when I wanted two doberman pups there is not much choice but to go pedigree. Dobermans are rarely if ever found wandering around the place as strays.

We too have had strays over the years - you can be lucky and get a good one - as we have. But also you can get a physco as we did too (it killed all the neighbours ducks and geese in the space of a 10 minute frenzy)

With strays you often get a dull disinterested dog who just is there for the food.

cotton

Well if you want a particular dog - like when I wanted two doberman pups there is not much choice but to go pedigree. Dobermans are rarely if ever found wandering around the place as strays.


Sadly, there are more & more of them cropping up in the pounds. There's been 5 that I know of, one a puppy in the last few months.

Garth

tallus wrote:

I wouldn't take issue with people spending money on expensive pets as long as the pet gets required care tbh.

That's exactly it isn't it?

SuzyS1972

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

With strays you often get a dull disinterested dog who just is there for the food.

Don't know whether to laugh or cry at that ludicrous remark.

I work with stray and abandoned dogs and yes they may be withdrawn for a few days - what do you expect ? Who knows what they've been through.
Some can be worse than others but any good resuce wouldn't re-home these dogs until they are a bit more confident.
The sad fact is that most dogs in Irelands re-homing centres and pounds are perfect happy well adjusted dogs - Ireland being a bit backwards there is this mentality to just let your dog out in the mornings and they end up getting lost or picked up by passers by / dog wardens etc.

They are not all sad dejected basket cases

superdudeman007

I know where you're coming from but that's mostly just people who have no idea what they're getting. Loads of people actually look up breeds etc and get a purebreed simply because you know what you're gonna get.

peasant

superdudeman007 wrote:

I know where you're coming from but that's mostly just people who have no idea what they're getting. Loads of people actually look up breeds etc and get a purebreed simply because you know what you're gonna get.

Dogs are dogs and as such are individuals. The only thing (and even that's not assured at all times) that you know about your future dog when you select it by breed is roughly what it's going to look like and roughly how big it's going to be.

That's it.

As far as character and behaviour are concerned breed descriptions are just wishful thinking. Character and behaviour are determined by the individual character traits of the individual dog and its upbringing and training.
NOT by what some over-enthusiastic breeder put in the write-up.

There are golden Retrievers out there that want to eat little children, King Charles spaniels that want to do the same, Rottweilers that are afraid of everything and Pitbulls that just want to live in peace.

Choosing a certain breed makes sense when you look at certain circumstances: You shouldn't choose a Basset or a Bulldog as a companion for a marathon runner, or a Husky or Border Collie for an elderly lady ...fair enough.

But buying a Golden Retriever because on the tin it says "good with children" ...that's just dangerous. Because it will not be good with children just on the power of the breed description alone. It will have to be trained to be so ...and it will still have to be supervised at all times when with the children.

Pounds are full of purebreds that didn't do "exactly as it says on the tin" ...

Ronseal don't do dogs.

damo605

peasant wrote:

Ronseal don't do dogs.

VERY Well Put!

artieanna

The problem that needs to be tackled here in Ireland is the people who breed dogs to make money so a litter is produced for selling either by pro breeders, back yard breeders or puppie farms, then there is the irresponsible owners who do not spay, neuter.....if every dog in each litter is not sold or given away the remaining puppies end up being dumped, drowned etc;

Then there is the buyers who don't reasearch.... ahhhh he's/she's sooo cutttteee:) ....puppie is brought home and grows into a biggg dog that the family have neither the time or space to accomodate and we don't know how to handle him :eek: etc etc so the dogs (cute puppies) eventually end up in the pounds:mad: .....
MY MOTTO
If you buy a dog, rescue a dog or breed dogs......You are making a commitment to look after, be responsible for and provide for that dog, also you are responsible to neuter or provide a home or care for any offspring born...The breed you choose is up to you, how much you pay too just as long as you are responsible for this new family member through good times and bad! This should apply to buyers and sellers

This also should be written into law!!!

Kingdom

I have 2 boxer (pups). They are coming up to a year old. I had moved to my first house and had wanted dogs for a long time but never the opportunity. I admit I hadn't done much research but I liked the Boxer, strong, loyal, playful, energetic.
I work shifts so there is always somebody around the gaff. But nevertheless we decided to get two pups, for company for each other more than anything else. At the time a local "breeder" was advertising pups for sale, so we rambled up, saw the pups parents and they were beautiful. Protective initially but not aggressive. The"breeder" claimed had them vaccinated, chipped and registered with the KC but they chipps were for the wrong dogs when I had them checked in the vets. Having read a few different threads, the housing they were kept in, on a massive estate albeit, was poor. I was to get a phonecall for their IKC reg but it never came! I realise that I probably shouldn't have shelled out the money for them that I did, and while they are so much more work than I expected, they are brilliant pets and the affection they emit is unreal. They are most definitely part of the family and I could never consider giving them up, even with a nipper due in a week.
We house them outside, [but for the first few months (when they were small) they were kept indoors], I even made a run for them and I'm the anti-diy dude! They made mess of our garden but we accepted they would do that as it was never a garden really to begin with. We are getting it designed, and have dedeicated half of it to them.

My reply is in relation to the first post of this thread. Now I've bought two pedigree pups, I mightnt have had much of a clue, and whilst the way I treat them might be perceived as inhumane, I don't give a flying fcuk what people think. I treat them as well as I can, they are good natured towards me and they are cared for. Thats all that matters.

Attol

My little brother is allergic to dogs. We never realised we could have a dog until we visited some friends in France who had a Bichon Frise. We couldn't risk getting a mongrel in case it didn't have the same kind of skin and hair. Imagine having to risk giving away your puppy because it made your children sick. That would be so heart breaking. Both our puppies came from a well researched kennel club approved breeder whose whole family had bichons. They could not have been better adjusted or taken care of. We've had numerous relatives who are also allergic who now finally have dogs. The temperaments and sizes of these dogs is ideal for us so they're prefect for the situation we're in.

I have an allergy of a lesser extent so may attempt to rescue a dog in the future when I've my own place. I'm just afraid of risking having to give up a dog due to allergies. I couldn't bear to make it feel unwanted and unloved because I couldn't take care of it if I did develop a sensitivity.

boomerang

I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with buying a purebred dog, but I don't agree that

"people spending money on expensive pets [is ok] as long as the pet gets required care"

or that

"if someone wants to spend their money on a dog of their choice, its fine as long as they treat it the way it deserves"

I think if you're going to go out and buy a dog, you've got an immediate responsibility to ensure that you buy that dog from a reputable breeder, who has put time, money and great care into the animal. If you buy from a backyard breeder or from someone who's fronting for a puppy farm, no questions asked, you are buying into the misery of dogs who are subjected to repeated pregnancies, kept in filthy conditions and whose health and wellbeing is totally neglected. I have seen two Cavalier King Charles bitches that had been used for breeding to sell the pups for cash in the local papers. The two dogs were nearly blind, their coats were caked and matted, they were underweight and completely run down. They were handed into rescue because they were so incapacitated from neglect, they could no longer be used for breeding. Anyone that bought a pretty, fluffy little pup from the owner for a few hundred quid and gave it an excellent home, was still (albeit unwittingly) buying into the hidden misery of those dams.

So it's not enough that you take good care of the pup that you buy. You must also ensure that your cash doesn't perpetuate cruelty. I couldn't live with myself if I knowingly bought a pup that came from such circumstances. I know you could argue that it's a kindness to buy such a pup and give it a better life, but if no one bought dogs in this way, there'd be no market for these nasty opportunists.

If I ever do decide to buy a dog, boy will I do my homework on the breed and the breeder before the pup comes home.

peasant

boomerang

Very well put !

mods: any chance of making this a sticky? Possibly on top of every page in the dog breeders info thread?

Carcharodon

boomerang wrote:

I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with buying a purebred dog, but I don't agree that

"people spending money on expensive pets [is ok] as long as the pet gets required care"

or that

"if someone wants to spend their money on a dog of their choice, its fine as long as they treat it the way it deserves"

I think if you're going to go out and buy a dog, you've got an immediate responsibility to ensure that you buy that dog from a reputable breeder, who has put time, money and great care into the animal. If you buy from a backyard breeder or from someone who's fronting for a puppy farm, no questions asked, you are buying into the misery of dogs who are subjected to repeated pregnancies, kept in filthy conditions and whose health and wellbeing is totally neglected. I have seen two Cavalier King Charles bitches that had been used for breeding to sell the pups for cash in the local papers. The two dogs were nearly blind, their coats were caked and matted, they were underweight and completely run down. They were handed into rescue because they were so incapacitated from neglect, they could no longer be used for breeding. Anyone that bought a pretty, fluffy little pup from the owner for a few hundred quid and gave it an excellent home, was still (albeit unwittingly) buying into the hidden misery of those dams.

So it's not enough that you take good care of the pup that you buy. You must also ensure that your cash doesn't perpetuate cruelty. I couldn't live with myself if I knowingly bought a pup that came from such circumstances. I know you could argue that it's a kindness to buy such a pup and give it a better life, but if no one bought dogs in this way, there'd be no market for these nasty opportunists.

If I ever do decide to buy a dog, boy will I do my homework on the breed and the breeder before the pup comes home.

How can you quote people out of context like that, you imply that people that agree with those statements automaticaly dont care about where they buy the dog, that is such a load of rubbish. Just because people buy pedigree does not mean that they will buy it from a puppy farm :rolleyes:
Yes, what you are saying is fundamentally right but your very point applies to everything in life, from the clothes on our back to the food in our stomachs. I can guarantee that some of the products you buy in the high street come from sweat shops from all over the world, i wonder how you can still live with yourself knowing that some of the products you buy come from equaly if not worse conditions than those dogs endure.
Maybe you should start another thread outlining problems with puppy farms instead of painting pedigree owners with a pretty distorted brush

CrowdedHouse

Kingdom wrote:

I have 2 boxer (pups). The"breeder" claimed had them vaccinated, chipped and registered with the KC but they chipps were for the wrong dogs when I had them checked in the vets. Having read a few different threads, the housing they were kept in, on a massive estate albeit, was poor. I was to get a phonecall for their IKC reg but it never came!

Now I've bought two pedigree pups,

Well if their IKC registration papers and chips aren't in order you haven't got pedigree pups.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure they're fine dogs but you got caught by a cowboy it seems.

boomerang

As I already said, I don't have a problem with people buying their dog from a breeder. I think it's only fair to say though that a lot of people who decide to buy a dog don't even know that puppy farms exist, or that they should meet the pups with their mum and confirm that the animals are healthy, well-socialised and properly cared for. They just hand over the cash, and then sadly have to deal with the consequences when the pup turns out to be wormy, unvaccinated, flea-ridden, fear-aggressive or develops life-threatening congenital diseases.

I wasn't implying that *all* people who purchase purebred dogs don't care about the dog's background. I was replying directly to the posters who expressed these opinions. And I still don't agree with them - it's *not* enough that you provide an excellent standard of care for the dog that you purchase. Ethically, you cannot disregard where the pup has come from.

So here's my check-list:

Buy from someone who is fanatical about your chosen breed and is who wholly committed to producing sound, happy, and healthy puppies with excellent temperaments. If you're really passionate about a particular breed, then buy from someone who is furthering the breed's development by breeding from excellent, health-tested lines. Otherwise you're inadvertently perpetuating bad breeding. There are already too many deaf Dalmatians, wheezy, breathless Cavaliers, bald and scabby Westies and arthritic German Shepherds. :-(

Make sure the mother and pups' environment is clean, warm, safe, and that the pups are kept in close contact with the breeder and their family, and not some dank, cold shed where the pups barely see a human until a buyer comes along. Mum herself should be happy, healthy and friendly. The pups should be a good weight (but not pot-bellied) with clear, shiny eyes (no gunge in their ducts) and have shiny coats (no scurf or parasites). The pups should be curious, playful and engaging.

Confirm that the breeder has carried out all the relevant tests for the various heriditary problems associated with the breed. He or she should be able to provide you with up-to-date screening certificates from their vet. For example, if you're buying a German Shepherd puppy, the breeder should provide you with a certificate indicating the parents' hip score, which should be signed off by their vet.

If the breeder doesn't give you a vaccination certificate, worming calendar, pedigree, microchip data and health screening certificate upfront, walk away - even if they promise they'll forward the documentation on to you later. They won't.

Never allow a breeder to deliver a pup to you at your home, or at an arranged meeting point such as a carpark. It inevitably means the breeder is unsavoury and is in it for the money - the welfare of the pups and their parents won't have been a priority. Always insist that you see the pups and their mother before agreeing to purchase. If the breeder won't agree to this, look elsewhere. Ireland is the puppy-farm capital of Europe.

Any breeder worth their salt will think long and hard before allowing you to take one of their puppies. Be very wary if the breeder is willing to give you a pup, no questions asked. You'll know the breeder is genuine if they are enthusiastic about allowing you to visit the puppies as often as you can before bringing your chosen puppy home. The more you and your family interact with the puppy, the easier the transition will be for the puppy when you do eventually bring him home. The best breeders are unstinting in their help and advice throughout your dog's life, and may even require a homecheck and an undertaking that if you have a change in circumstances and can no longer keep the dog, the breeder reserves the right to have the dog returned to them.

OK. Off soapbox. This is something I'm really passionate about!!

racso1975

I think that this thread is a very sensitive one. I feel people who have spent money on a purebreed feel they have to justify and rationale the reason why. Well I think ya dont if you have researched the dog properly and are sure this is the dog that you and your family can cope with emotionally, financially and physically then go for.

The only thing that should be stickyed off this thread is the advice that boomerang has given on buying a dog from a good breeder........great advice an thanks for

Carcharodon

Everyone that has posted in this thread (if you even read it) disagreeing and agreeing with the OP has stated their objections to puppy farms and cowboy breeding. Its not the fault of these people that there are idiots out there that dont do their research. Your advice is good to those that dont have two brain cells to rub together but does not belong in this thread.
*Carcharodon pulls raso1975's head out of boomerangs arse* Its not about justifying spending money, its only a few quid, its about justifying to certain people that despite what they think, they are not better people just because they get dogs from shelters,pounds etc
Boomerangs advice should of been posted in a thread of its own and it would apply to when you buy any type of dog, they are all equal at the end of the day.

Rigsby

I think the main point of the original thread has been lost. I think the main point ( if I read it right ) was for people who want a dog to consider getting one from a pound. We're all supposed to be animal lovers yet Ireland puts down the highest number of dogs ( per head of pop. ) in western europe. If 10% of intending dog owners bought from pounds a lot of animals would be saved. Also if owners of non breeding pets had them neutered we would'nt have this problem.

FranknFurter

Keep the thread On Topic and Carcharodon, personal insults will get you banned. Consider that a warning and take it seriously guys n gals, I dont have the energy or motivation to repeat myself.

B

Carcharodon

I think all the advice given out by posters is good and beneficial to those thinking of getting a dog but maybe should be posted in a thread of its own or maybe a sticky should be made to outline some of the problems people with little knowledge might run in to when buying a dog.
I think the original point of the thread was resolved along time ago, as in people do not have a problem with pedigree owners as long as they get the required care and are bought from the right people. So the need for someone to post about something which has already been discussed and which is pretty black and white baffles me.
Thread has run its course methinks, lock it and throw away the key.

Nala

Carcharodon wrote:

Thread has run its course methinks, lock it and throw away the key.

That's the mod's job, not yours.

Rigsby has my point spot-on. I just think it's crazy that the vast majority of dogs in pounds are put down because they can't find homes, yet so many people buy from breeders. If more people adopted dogs and less people bought them from a breeder then this country wouldn't be in such a mess regarding unwanted dogs.

By the way, as I have said already, I have no problem with people spending a lot of money on a dog if they have allergies and need a breed with minimal shedding because of this, as long as they get the dog from a good breeder. I would rather someone spend a lot of money on a well-bred puppy that they won't have an allergic reaction to than to adopt a dog and then have to rehome it again because of the allergy.

FranknFurter

Carcharodon wrote:

Thread has run its course methinks, lock it and throw away the key.

Thank you Carcharodon, but we have our own criteria set out that decides when or if we do such things.
A thread will die of its own accord 9 times out of 10, and fyi, we dont lock them on request unless there is a problem that requires it.
If you have a problem with a post, thats where the "report post" button should be used instead of going on and on on the thread itself.
Imo, there are many aspects and perspectives on the topic of this thread and I am happy to let the discussion flow as long as its kept relevant.

B