[article] Fermoy bypass opens today

Navan Junction

Tim O'Brien, Irish Times, 02/10/2006

The toll bypass of Fermoy opens in Co Cork today amid assurances from the National Roads Authority that motorists will still have a viable alternative to paying the toll.


The new €295 million motorway is opening nine months ahead of schedule and is expected to reduce by at least 30 minutes the travel time between Dublin and Cork.

The opening is to be performed by Minister for Transport Martin Cullen at 11.30am. The road will open to traffic at noon.

Residents and public representatives in Watergrasshill had expressed concern that the design of the new 17.5km motorway would incorporate the existing Watergrasshill bypass, meaning that traffic avoiding the tolls would have to in future also avoid the Watergrasshill bypass.

There were also fears that those avoiding the tolls would be forced to bring their vehicles through Watergrasshill town itself, which would represent a retrograde step for the town, according to Munster MEP Kathy Sinnott.

While the National Roads Authority has acknowledged the new road layout is somewhat complex, it insisted yesterday that traffic avoiding the toll motorway would still be able to use the Watergrasshill bypass.

"Traffic travelling from Cork to Dublin will flow through the existing Watergrasshill bypass and then be able to leave the motorway before the tolls, and travel along the old road through Fermoy and Rathcormac," said authority spokesman Seán O'Neill. Similarly traffic travelling from the Dublin direction to Cork will be able to leave the M8 before the toll booths and pass through Rathcormac and Fermoy and rejoin the motorway in time to use the Watergrasshill bypass.

Mr O'Neill said confusion may have arisen because of the closure of an existing road running 300 metres from the old Dublin to Cork road, leading to the Watergrasshill bypass. But he said alternative routes would be open and while it would be possible to access Watergrasshill, it would also be possible to go more directly to the bypass.

"On the opening of the new motorway, motorists will continue to have the option of bypassing Watergrasshill and not having to pay a toll," he said.

In addition, a €2 million scheme of traffic calming is also being put in place to discourage through traffic from using Watergrasshill town, he added.

Meanwhile, a proposal from Cork County Council to the National Roads Authority that the first two weeks of use of the Fermoy and Rathcormac bypass would be free has been rejected by the authority. Cork County Council had sought the concession to allow motorists to appreciate the benefit of the new motorway and demonstrate to heavy traffic, in particular, that the toll route could save time, and so money, for hauliers. The toll charges for the new motorway are €1.60 for a car and €2.90 for a coach rising to €4.90 for the largest heavy vehicles.

The roads authority said it "regrettably" had to refuse the offer of free tolls for a trial period as it had contractual obligations to the road builders and toll operators, a consortium of Irish and European companies called Direct Route Ltd.

© The Irish Times

dmeehan

on a friday evening it will take much more than 30 mins of the cork-dublin journey. I have so often spent more that an hour trying to get through Fermoy

westtip

dmeehan wrote:

on a friday evening it will take much more than 30 mins of the cork-dublin journey. I have so often spent more that an hour trying to get through Fermoy

This is interesting because it is very much the same for the M4 Kilcock - Kinnegad section - which takes a considerable time off the journey west on a Friday afternoon and the same on Sundays in reverse. Does anyone know, have the NRA and their PPP partners ever considered variable pricing on these sections of tolls? For example making it a nominal charge of say 50 cent during the week and charge say five euro from Friday noon until midnight on Friday and the same on Sunday afternoon/night through to Monday Lunchtime. I know for one if I was going to Cork for the Weekend and faced a five euro charge on a Friday/Sunday night it wouldn't bother me - but if I was using the road on a daily basis I would baulk at the mounting costs of using the toll, at €3.20 a day, €16 a week €750 a year based on using it 47 out of 52 weeks of the year. The Athlone by-pass is free, if the residents of Athlone had to pay €1.60 to get on the by-pass from one end of the town to the other, the town would be choked with people using the old route thoguh the town. I just think the whole pricing issue with regard to local users has not been considered on these new tolled by-passes (Fermoy, Drogheda, Enfield, Kinnegad), Why don't they for example allow you to purchase a local electronic season ticket - which you can only purchase if you are registered resident (ie voter) in the area (say a twenty mile radius of the toll gate) The maximum any regular user would have to pay in a year would be price controlled to be no more than say €200. If an annual season ticket to use the Fermoy by-pass was say €200 I am sure they would be heavily subscribed with electronic season ticket holders. Or if charges were based on the number of persons in a car, particularly in peak hours you would get more car pooling - although difficult to control - it could be done with a car pooling filter lane approaching the toll gates. If more thought was put into these matters there wouldn't be so much local antaganism to the tolling faced on these by-passes. Flat rate tolling any time of the day or night seems a bit unfair - after all if you try and get a train ticket valid on a Friday to Cork compared to the same journey the previous day for the same price, you can't because peak time pricing based on supply and demand comes into play, with prices going up on a Friday.

Stark

I wonder do you save much time if the traffic is quiet? I notice you don't save any time by taking the Mitchelstown bypass these days. (And going through the town is far less annoying than going through all those ****ing roundabouts).

bitbuilder

So much for the bypass. in a fifteen minute spell this afternoon 18 articulated trucks through the middle of Fermoy.

I notice though that the powers that be are going to use a somewhat underhand tactic to try to get people to use the toll road, by reducing the speed limit on the old road from fermoy to 80kmh.

Stark

They'd be better off trying to ban trucks from Fermoy city centre like they're going to do in Dublin city centre I reckon.

GerardKeating

bitbuilder wrote:

I notice though that the powers that be are going to use a somewhat underhand tactic to try to get people to use the toll road, by reducing the speed limit on the old road from fermoy to 80kmh.

This is actually normal, the old route is no longer a "National Primary Route" and losses it's "N" number.

As an "R" road, the max speed is 80kph

murphaph

It's wrong to toll a bypass, simple as that.

shoegirl

Rathcormac was very slightly quieter today - but not hugely so.

A lot of the traffic on these roads is traffic travelling between Cork and Rathcormac/Fermoy and neighbouring towns, so it will only take a certain amount of the traffic off the roads.

The anger from people in Watergrasshill is understandable since effectively the by-pass is being closed to non-tolled traffic, and effectively what this "improvement" has done is to put back motorists travelling to/from the towns above on the road - which has to be at least 25-35% of all the traffic, not even counting people who don't want to pay the toll. For a small village like Watergrasshill, that is a lot of traffic.

What angers me is that if you are travelling between Dublin/Cork and going north of Dublin via the M50, you now pay two instead of one tolls. Once the port tunnel opens, for freight traffic this will increase to 3 tolls - one on the new N8, another on the M50, and another for the port tunnel.

And we wonder why the cost of goods is escalating in Ireland? At about 4-5 euros per toll, this will add significant costs to transporting goods.

The problem I see here is that the local population in North Cork is growing so fast that the level of traffic diverted via the old road via Watergrasshill and Rathcormac will be unsustainable. Rathcormac's population has multipled by 5 over the last 5 years and neighbouring villages are growing rapidly. Even a cheaper tolls would have ecouraged people to use the motorway.

If this had been done with other badly congested roads it would have created major damage. For example had the M1 not by-passed Swords, and instead taken in the original by-pass but tolled the new road, this would have put the traffic back to the way things were in the late 1970s. It would have made more sense to have built a flyover over the existing road so traffic coming from the rathcormac direction could avoid Watergrasshill without going over two different bridges.

What I don't understand is why this wasn't pinpointed when the original plans were drawn up as it was crazy to design the road in this way.

DublinWriter

dmeehan wrote:

on a friday evening it will take much more than 30 mins of the cork-dublin journey. I have so often spent more that an hour trying to get through Fermoy

You obviously didn't know the trick about staying on the left lane of the bridge, hooking left, immediately right, then back onto the road again.

cregser

DublinWriter wrote:

You obviously didn't know the trick about staying on the left lane of the bridge, hooking left, immediately right, then back onto the road again.

But by the time you hit the bridge you've already been in a queue for ~20mins

Red Alert

You pay VAT, VRT, Road Tax on your car, Insurance to the greedy insurers, and you'd think you could expect a reasonable standard of road. But no, if you want the 'premium' version you've to pay loads to some brats who run a choking toll plaza. What a mess!

Chris_533976

M7/M8 spur will be tolled too Add another one to the list.

Stark

Oh ffs.

Flukey

Commpared to Bertie and his £8,000 this is far more scandalous. All the tolls should be scrapped. There is enough tax being collected by the government from motorists as it is. They open a bypass with a built-in reason not to use it. Typical.

bitbuilder

You obviously didn't know the trick about staying on the left lane of the bridge, hooking left, immediately right, then back onto the road again.

I know about that one alright - I live there! But that is not a solution to the traffic problem.

How about this from aa roadwatch this morning:
"Long delays northbound at the toll plaza on the fermoy bypass" - how hard would it have been to count the cars using the road before opening the toll plaza to calculate the expected traffic volume?????

westtip

shoegirl wrote:

Rathcormac was very slightly quieter today - but not hugely so.


What angers me is that if you are travelling between Dublin/Cork and going north of Dublin via the M50, you now pay two instead of one tolls. Once the port tunnel opens, for freight traffic this will increase to 3 tolls - one on the new N8, another on the M50, and another for the port tunnel.

And we wonder why the cost of goods is escalating in Ireland? At about 4-5 euros per toll, this will add significant costs to transporting goods.

.

shoegirl, I think if my memory serves me right, freight traffic is free through the port tunnel, so that toll will not be included in the additional costs - however any truck driver coming off the boat at Dublin will be forced to use the port tunnel when the ban on HGVs in the city is put in place - they will no longer have the option to use the quays to get to the M50, thus avoiding west link before swinging south and south west on the M50/N11 route or M50/M7/8/9 route, plus any HGV planning to go west on the M4/M6 route will be forced south via the port tunnel before having to cross the toll bridge. The volume of HGV traffic in the mornings (the busiest time for the ports), which will be forced out onto the M50 and then have to swing round the M50 and cross the toll bridge is only going to exacerbate the toll bridge problem, but of course this was known a long time ago. I am actually surprised the haulage industry don't just go and park a few trucks on the M50 and bring the whole motorway network to a grinding halt - just to make their point. All the port tunnel is going to do is completely gridlock the M50 southbound in the mornings towards the toll bridge - and oh yes we fogot about this one ..... Further add to the obscene profits made on Westlink....but I guess NTR don't give an S H One T about the misery which will abound.

Tom Dunne

bitbuilder wrote:

So much for the bypass. in a fifteen minute spell this afternoon 18 articulated trucks through the middle of Fermoy.

It's the same in Enfield. A neighbour of mine sat outside his house one morning from 7:00am to 8:00am with the video camera and counted something like 40 trucks going through the village. And this despite the fact that there is a ring-road around Enfield (along with the tolled M4).

I think Westtip's idea is excellent regarding a variable rate ticket for locals. In the mornings, there is a continuous stream of traffic on the old N4, as you get onto the motorway, you notice very few cars/trucks coming from the toll plaza. People simply won't pay the toll (2.50 Euro for cars) and I can't blame them.

westtip wrote:

I am actually surprised the haulage industry don't just go and park a few trucks on the M50 and bring the whole motorway network to a grinding halt

Sure isn't that all they will be doing once they get onto the M50?

daymobrew

westtip wrote:

Further add to the obscene profits made on Westlink....but I guess NTR don't give an S H One T about the misery which will abound.

It's not their fault that traffic volumes have surpassed all estimates. They could not have known that when their contract was signed. You should be more angry with those on the Government side of that original contract.
The NRA has learned some lessons from the poor state of the West Link and included them in contract for other toll operators e.g. limiting the number that can be in a queue before barrier is opened.

murphaph

tom dunne wrote:

In the mornings, there is a continuous stream of traffic on the old N4, as you get onto the motorway, you notice very few cars/trucks coming from the toll plaza. People simply won't pay the toll (2.50 Euro for cars) and I can't blame them.

Good, fair play to people. The market will force Eurolink to cut the toll price if enough people keep their money in their pockets. Does anyone know, what is the toll for motorbikes on the Fermoy Bypass?

dmeehan

DublinWriter wrote:

You obviously didn't know the trick about staying on the left lane of the bridge, hooking left, immediately right, then back onto the road again.

i do, but on a friday evening I would be going the opposite direction;)

D'Peoples Voice

Red Alert wrote:

You pay VAT, VRT, Road Tax on your car, Insurance to the greedy insurers, and you'd think you could expect a reasonable standard of road. But no, if you want the 'premium' version you've to pay loads to some brats who run a choking toll plaza. What a mess!

According to my rough estimates, of EVERY euro you pay in tax, transport related taxes or not,

29 cent goes to Health Budget

20 cent goes to Education Budget

19 cent goes to Social and Family Affairs Budget

6 cent goes to Justice(Policing etc) Budget

5 cent goes to Environment, Heritage & Local government

So that's 79 cent of your euro gone already.

The remainder, 21cent, is then divided out amongst

Agriculture & Food

Sport & tourism

Communications

Community & Rural Affairs

Enterprise Trade & employment

Finance

Foreign Affairs

Taoiseach office

Transport currently accounting for 4 cent per euro

And you want the Gov to build less toll roads, where do you suggest we cut expenditure to pay for more roads??? And this is before Stamp duty revenue starts to fall!
FG want to INCREASE our spending on Education, saying it's one of the lowest in the OECD, Labour want more expenditure in Health. Green Party want more spending in the Dept of the Environment, SF want more spending in Social and Family Affairs. The way i see it is that we'd be lucky if we MAINTAIN the current rate of expenditure in Transport after election 2007.

MICKEYG

We have an incredibly efficient, fair and environmentally sound method of paying for roads at the moment - it is called tax on fuel.

We should scrap road tax and road tolls as they are unfair (I can drive on 60 miles of motorway to my in-laws without spending a penny on tolls whereas some one driving from Lucan to Blanchardstown needs to pat the westlink toll). Toll booths cost money to build and operate and slow down traffic.

If we need more money for roads then raise the tax on fuel. This tax on fuel would pay for the road over time (a bond could be issued to fund the initial construction cost and the fuel tax would cover the repayments - we are a successful country with a very good credit rating so a bond issue would be an extremely cheap method of raising funds).

Road tax costs a fortune to collect and administer and this money could be saved if it was abolished.

Every body should pay for how much of the road network they use (whether it be a local road or motorway as they all cost money). Fuel tax taxes you on usage and also taxes you more if you have an inefficient engine which covers the environmental issue.

bmaxi

MICKEYG wrote:

We have an incredibly efficient, fair and environmentally sound method of paying for roads at the moment - it is called tax on fuel.

We should scrap road tax and road tolls as they are unfair (I can drive on 60 miles of motorway to my in-laws without spending a penny on tolls whereas some one driving from Lucan to Blanchardstown needs to pat the westlink toll). Toll booths cost money to build and operate and slow down traffic.

If we need more money for roads then raise the tax on fuel. This tax on fuel would pay for the road over time (a bond could be issued to fund the initial construction cost and the fuel tax would cover the repayments - we are a successful country with a very good credit rating so a bond issue would be an extremely cheap method of raising funds).

Road tax costs a fortune to collect and administer and this money could be saved if it was abolished.

Every body should pay for how much of the road network they use (whether it be a local road or motorway as they all cost money). Fuel tax taxes you on usage and also taxes you more if you have an inefficient engine which covers the environmental issue.

Tut,Tut, Silly boy, if we were to do this then how would our fat cat speculators and their political puppets make a crust? Go to the bottom of the class at once.

westtip

daymobrew wrote:

It's not their fault that traffic volumes have surpassed all estimates. They could not have known that when their contract was signed. You should be more angry with those on the Government side of that original contract.
The NRA has learned some lessons from the poor state of the West Link and included them in contract for other toll operators e.g. limiting the number that can be in a queue before barrier is opened.

Fair point.

westtip

Stark wrote:

They'd be better off trying to ban trucks from Fermoy city centre like they're going to do in Dublin city centre I reckon.

It all very well having these bans but the NRA (I recall reading somewhere) have made a committment to provide a toll free alternative whenever there is a toll road, ban the trucks and this alternative goes out the window....oh I can smell the lawyers on the scene already...and some kind of consitutional challenge.

dontaskme

murphaph wrote:

Good, fair play to people. The market will force Eurolink to cut the toll price if enough people keep their money in their pockets. Does anyone know, what is the toll for motorbikes on the Fermoy Bypass?

Vehicle Class Toll Rate
Class 1: Motorcycles € 0.90
Class 2: Motor Cars € 1.60
Class 3: Buses or Coaches € 2.90
Class 4: Goods Vehicles with less than 3.5tons € 2.90
Class 5: Goods Vehicles with more than 3.5 tons and 2 or 3 axles € 4.10
Class 6: Goods Vehicles with more than 3.5 tons and 4 or more axles € 5.30

http://www.directroute.ie/directroute/toll-rates/

D'Peoples Voice

MICKEYG wrote:

We have an incredibly efficient, fair and environmentally sound method of paying for roads at the moment - it is called tax on fuel.

I wouldn't disagree with you but you must bear in mind that TD from the country outnumber those from Urban areas.
As no TD from the country would vote in any legislation which would have a detrimental effect on the thousands of farmers who live miles away from their nearest 'town' and drive their SUV's on a daily basis, such a measure has no chance of ever getting approved.

MICKEYG

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

I wouldn't disagree with you but you must bear in mind that TD from the country outnumber those from Urban areas.
As no TD from the country would vote in any legislation which would have a detrimental effect on the thousands of farmers who live miles away from their nearest 'town' and drive their SUV's on a daily basis, such a measure has no chance of ever getting approved.

Ah, the benefits of local politics. Its amazing how we ever get anything done in this country.

westtip

westtip wrote:

It all very well having these bans but the NRA (I recall reading somewhere) have made a committment to provide a toll free alternative whenever there is a toll road, ban the trucks and this alternative goes out the window....oh I can smell the lawyers on the scene already...and some kind of consitutional challenge.

Just coming back on myself there I knew i had read it somewhere on the NRA website they state:

The Authority has established certain key principles for its PPP programme:An alternative toll-free route must be available for road users. While the Authority proposes to develop toll charges that are at an affordable level in order to attract traffic on to the new toll roads, certain users may wish to forego the improved service and shorter journey time such roads will offer and remain on existing roads. http://www.nra.ie/PublicPrivatePartnership/KeyPPPPrinciples/#d.en.31.

Which does throw up an interesting point about banning trucks from existing roads - eg Dublin city centre, Fermoy etc etc.......

so come on NRA does your policy exclude the truckers??? Perhaps the Irish Road Haulage Association can pick up on this one.

Limerick Dude

Shannon Tunnel will also be tolled.