Smart going belly up?

Dellas

bk wrote:

Unless Magnet and BT now step up to the plate, it is very unlikely that Eircom will bother to roll out ADSL2+ and you won't see faster speeds like in the UK (8m is the basic package there now).

Yeah seen the ads on UK TV channels , isnt it 19.95 sterling pounds a month for 8mb ???? Maybe here in 2020 !!!!! The same year that we see a new terminal at Dublin airport and a rail link to it !!!!:D

There is no doubt that Smart did force Eircom to get off their back sides and do something . Just a shame that Eircom couldnt have a different attitude and be innovative and come out with the latest products and pull out all the stops to roll it out , give tons of ovetime to engineers to upgrade the network.

In Eircoms defence ( wont often get me defending them) they were owed money they chased it 15 times ( apparantly ) and business is business so they did have the right to cut them off. If you order a drink in a bar you have to pay for it , you cant keep putting it on the tab !!!

Dellas

gadgetman496 wrote:

I see from your profile that your occupation is in "SALES"

Do you work for BT? or, are you just originally from the UK?

If you believe that €63 for 3MB is good value, Then I'm very happy for you.

Errr I work for an airline and Im from Cyprus !!!! Hope that answers your questions. And Eur 63 is good for BB . Seeing as I am on dial up 28kpbs and that alone costs me 29.99 for 180 hours even on BT's good rates!!! So count yourself lucky mate !!!

CYPRUS 2 IRELAND 0 ?????

JNive

yeah right heard of VoIP yet have yah, you could get the 35 package from smart, stick on the Blueface EUR15 and get unlimited calls to UK/Ireland , so thats 50/month, or you can get the 25 a month from blueface and get unlimited calls worldwide. = EUR60 / month, and thats uncontended, uncapped, adsl2+

Or you can even get magnet intro for EUR52.00 / month and that has 512K upload, 4mbit download ( if you have FTTH its 4mbps upload also ), so you could have 2 phone lines going on that no problem, even 3 if needed. Now if a person required that, how much would that cost ya with Eircom or BT ( the 3mb packages would be lucky to get 2 voip lines on it )

patrickmooney

gadgetman496 wrote:

So now it becomes €46 V's €63 with BT

And you think that BT is good value????

Granted, SMART will always the cheapest comparing like with like, but which company requires almost €3million investment a month to cover losses??? SMART obviously don't have a solid business plan, or enough customers to make it profitable. And look whats happened.

digitaldr

I hope smart sort something out for their broadband customers but am concerned that even if they do we might have to go somewhere else for our telephony (voip perhaps but I'm not 100% sure I'd trust it and really don't want another number change/lengthy port process). A chink of light here????

One unanswered question is the immediate fate of Smart Telecom subscribers who get both voice and broadband from the carrier. Because Smart is hoping to remain alive as a broadband company, it has to keep all it can of its current broadband subscribers, reportedly about 17,000. However, for those who get both broadband and voice from Smart, "ComReg's latest information is that services including calls to emergency services (999/112) cannot be guaranteed," the Irish regulator said on its Web site. Word out of Ireland is that negotiations are ongoing to clarify the use of Eircom ULLs for broadband customers.

From

http://www.telecomweb.com/tnd/19631.html

Dellas

JNive wrote:

yeah right heard of VoIP yet have yah, you could get the 35 package from smart, stick on the Blueface EUR15 and get unlimited calls to UK/Ireland , so thats 50/month, or you can get the 25 a month from blueface and get unlimited calls worldwide. = EUR60 / month, and thats uncontended, uncapped, adsl2+

Or you can even get magnet intro for EUR52.00 / month and that has 512K upload, 4mbit download ( if you have FTTH its 4mbps upload also ), so you could have 2 phone lines going on that no problem, even 3 if needed. Now if a person required that, how much would that cost ya with Eircom or BT ( the 3mb packages would be lucky to get 2 voip lines on it )

My ideal would be Digiweb wireless and Blueface for calls but i cant get it in my area so I have explored all the areas !!! Im saying BT is a good value for money alternative option . If people dont think its good value then re connect to Eircom .

Gadgetman496

Dellas wrote:

Seeing as I am on dial up 28kpbs and that alone costs me 29.99 for 180 hours

Dial up? Did somebody say "Dial up"?

I must have accidentally stumbled onto the jokes thread :eek:

Dellas

patrickmooney wrote:

Granted, SMART will always the cheapest comparing like with like, but which company requires almost €3million investment a month to cover losses??? SMART obviously don't have a solid business plan, or enough customers to make it profitable. And look whats happened.

Free line rental / un capped BB / Millions in avertising = Suicide

Dellas

gadgetman496 wrote:

Dial up? Did somebody say "Dial up"?

I must have accidentally stumbled onto the jokes thread :eek:

Yeah its called the Irish telecomunications network !!!! My cousin lives in Crete in a remote village and has 4mb!!!! The joke is the Island we live on here

Blackdragon

Ok i have to put this question to the eircom employees in ere....

Have you any idea what the future is for Smart Telecom?
Are they posting anything on your local Intranet at work?

Are Eircom expecting smart to bounce back and are calling the customers as quickly as possible to grab as many as possible before this happens or are they convinced there is no come back for them and are just trying to get in there before the rest of the providers?

dub45

Blackdragon wrote:

Ok i have to put this question to the eircom employees in ere....

Have you any idea what the future is for Smart Telecom?

From the Irish Times:

Smart Telecom close to Eircom connection deal

Arthur Beesley, Senior Business Correspondent
05/10/2006

Smart Telecom's largest shareholder, Brendan Murtagh, appears close to a new interconnection agreement with Eircom that may clear the way for him to set about refinancing the troubled telecommunications firm.

The terms of the new interconnection deal were not clear last night. However, the proposed agreement has been the subject of ongoing contact between the two companies since Tuesday.

The talks started on the morning after 45,000 of Smart's residential fixed line and corporate customers were cut off the system without warning.

Mr Murtagh owns 20 per cent of Smart, whose shares on the Alternative Investment Market (AIM) in London were suspended on Tuesday morning after Eircom cut off its connection. Amid a deepening financial crisis at Smart, Mr Murtagh has been keeping the company afloat in recent times to the tune of €2.5million-€3 million per month.

His proposal to lead a consortium to refinance Smart is conditional on a new interconnection agreement being put in place. Without such an agreement, Smart would not be able to offer any service that makes use of Eircom's network.

It is considered likely that a reconstituted Smart, delisted from the AIM, would concentrate on its broadband offering.

Smart was not party to an interim deal agreed on Tuesday between Eircom and the communications regulator ComReg, which was designed to help Smart's fixed-line customers choose an alternative supplier.

In addition to the intention to keep the broadband business going, Mr Murtagh is awaiting a High Court judgment on Smart's challenge to ComReg's decision to withdraw its award of a 3G mobile licence to the company.

Eircom is unlikely to sign a new agreement, unless it receives full payment of the money it says it is due from Smart. However, there has been some dispute over the sums of money that Smart owes Eircom.

Sources close to Eircom insist that Smart had been billed for €4.3 million as of Monday and that €1.7 million was already in arrears when the network connection was cut at 5pm that day.

Sources close to Smart say that a sum of €309,000 was the subject of a long-term dispute at that time and that a sum of €459,000 was due last Tuesday. Further sums of €410,000 and €480,000 were falling due later this week, but the same sources insist that €1.7 million was not in arrears last Monday.


© The Irish Times

JNive

to be honest it doesnt seem liek they were in THAT much trouble, hence why eircom decided to get a jump on things, cut their connection, rob panicking customers damage their brand, even if there wasnt any doubt that smart could keep going, especially once the 3G license decision comes.

This was their last chance really to try and take a stab at their biggest competitor, even if it meant them not going out of business, they could weaken the attractiveness of their offerings sufficiently

Also, even the irish times is reporting how they were disconencted without warning. personally i think the notices from eircom were "you still owe us money, if you dont pay this back you may face disconnection", each time responded with smart telling eircom, dont worry, heres what we are doing, things are getting better, expect money shortly.

then all of a sudden, BAMM lol.

paulm17781

People! Asking Eirscum employees what will happen to Smart is the worst thing you can do.

They get commission for getting your business back so they will tell you anything. My Ex worked for Eirscum and the amount of lies she was told to tell people are ludicrous.

If you are a Smart customer wait and see what happens. Asking the Eirscum people is like asking someone in shop A should you buy from shop B.

watty

If Smart is relaunched as a viable buisness concentrating on Broadband, then the prices will be comparable to BT / Eircom/ Digiweb so that it is not making a loss. Simply underpricing to build up a subscriber base can only be sustained for a very short period. For Smart Telecom that time is long passed.

Both Magnet Entertainment and Smart Telecom will continue to have a problem till LLU is properly sorted, when it is properly sorted there will be at least 3 other companies promoting it heavily. While ONLY Magent/Smart are significantly using it, you can assume there is a problem with it!

RasTa

paulm17781 wrote:

They get commission for getting your business back so they will tell you anything. My Ex worked for Eirscum and the amount of lies she was told to tell people are ludicrous.

.

Can I have one, instead of the usual sweeping statements I keep seeing here? Idiotic comments like that, really piss me off. Historians, when was the last time the price of line rental went up in Ireland? We live in an expensive society, everything is over-priced

Stench Blossoms

paulm17781 wrote:

They get commission for getting your business back so they will tell you anything. My Ex worked for Eirscum and the amount of lies she was told to tell people are ludicrous.

Tell you anything will they?

Comreg listen into calls quite requently to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen.

I hope your mate got the sack.

Blackdragon wrote:

Have you any idea what the future is for Smart Telecom?
Are they posting anything on your local Intranet at work?

No and No. We are in the same boat as consumers.

Blackdragon wrote:

Are Eircom expecting smart to bounce back and are calling the customers as quickly as possible to grab as many as possible before this happens or are they convinced there is no come back for them and are just trying to get in there before the rest of the providers?

We haven't been just ringing Smart customers. The winback teams have been carrying on as normal.

Although as previously mentioned here the outbound service in eircom is being kept to a minimun as we need all the man power to accept incoming calls from smart customers.

Sponge Bob

RasTa wrote:

Historians, when was the last time the price of line rental went up in Ireland?

twice in 2003 alone when it was already the highest in the world .

We live in an expensive society, everything is over-priced

especially line rental for what you get

*Crap Lines falling apart and getting worse
*Awful customer service although slightly improved in the past 2-3 years
*No repair or maintenance service worth mentioning . If I really need a line fixed I find I have to rip it down to get an engineer out, thats ridiculous .

and for this heap of **** we have to pay premium line rental of €24.20 , the highest on teh planet and the planet beside us when the next highest in the EU is €19 and the average is €15

as our lines are distinctly average we should pay distinctly average line rental and all because of the utter failure of proper regulation in Ireland.

MOH

Dellas wrote:

Yeah but correct me if Im wrong but have BT been ''harassing'' Smart customers to sign up with them??? Also I have never found BT to be pushy actually if anything I have had to do the chasing. I have had my problems with BT but they are the least of the worst. That total talk package includes line rental , all calls day or night to Ireland and the UK and broadband so even the 3mb for Eur 63 is very good value dont you think ??? Did Smart offer the free calls to any landline UK and Ireland???

I have been with them all here , started off with Telecom Eireann then went to Cable and Wireless then went to Esat, then Smart then to Eircom and now BT Ireland so I have quite a bit of experience with switching. I switched when no one here was switching. If I could get broadband I would jump at the BT offer.

Smart didn't off me free calls to UK or Ireland landlines, but I didn't want it. Once you're getting 3mb broadband for €35, VOIP will take care of your calls.

I wouldn't make €28 of calls a month (apart from other international calls, which aren't covered anyway).

For 65 a month I could get:
6000/768 in Holland ;
16000 (!) over ISDN in Germany;
8000/256 in the UK;

65 a month for 3mb is appalling value, unless you're making massive amounts of free calls, and even at that VOIP would probably cover those anyway.

netman

JNive wrote:

to be honest it doesnt seem liek they were in THAT much trouble, hence why eircom decided to get a jump on things, cut their connection, rob panicking customers damage their brand, even if there wasnt any doubt that smart could keep going, especially once the 3G license decision comes.

Uhmmm... What exactly would Smart do with a 3G license anyway?

I mean they can't even pay their bills, how would they build a mobile network with even a crappy coverage then?

Oh wait.. I got it! They would rent Vodafone's network, offer much cheaper packages, charge their customers but refuse to pay Vodafone and keep it going as far as they can! That's magic!

paulm17781

orla wrote:

hope your mate got the sack.

She came home with printed notes that said the broadband price includes line rental.

I also spoke to others who thought that. It shouldn't be up to consumers to teach staff about these things but, hey. If it helps, she was trained by a supervisor who's name began with a 'D' that is all I will say on a public forum and it was about OCtober 2004 in Marlbourough st. You may know the supervisor in question.

Stench Blossoms

paulm17781 wrote:

She came home with printed notes that said the broadband price includes line rental.

I also spoke to others who thought that. It shouldn't be up to consumers to teach staff about these things but, hey. If it helps, she was trained by a supervisor who's name began with a 'D' that is all I will say on a public forum and it was about OCtober 2004 in Marlbourough st. You may know the supervisor in question.

You are talking out of your arse. I have seen people get sacked for much less than this.

Do you not realise that eircom are very heavily regulated when it comes to the winback campaign? Most of the calls are recorded and handed over to comreg and comreg tend to come in aswell and listen in.

Supervisors don't train people in eircom, Trainers train people in eircom.

And this "D" supervisor you speak of, never heard of them.

MOH

orla wrote:

You are talking out of your arse. I have seen people get sacked for much less than this.

Do you not realise that eircom are very heavily regulated when it comes to the winback campaign? Most of the calls are recorded and handed over to comreg and comreg tend to come in aswell and listen in.

Supervisors don't train people in eircom, Trainers train people in eircom.

And this "D" supervisor you speak of, never heard of them.

I moved into a rented apartment a few years ago with a wired phone lone which wasn't working. Gf phoned Eircom to get it connected, they told her it would cost €100, she figured I needed it for work so said go ahead.

It was supposed to be free connection at the time, so I called back the next day to query this, I was going to cancel the order, and was told there had been a mistake, there would be no connection charge.

First bill came out with €100 charge on it. Phoned to complain, was told an engineer had been needed because the line had been disconnected for too long. They couldn't say how long 'too long' was. When I told them I'd been told I didn't have to pay any connection fee, they said that was wrong, and I had to pay.

My complaint e-mails were ignored, and I had other stuff going on so didn't have the time to chase it up with Comreg.

I know of other people who were stung the same way, same charge after being told there wouldn't be any, so it's obviously not an isolated incident.

So as far as I'm concerned, Eirscum are a bunch of liars and thieves.

oscarBravo

RasTa wrote:

...BT are the best, but i'd rather the money stay in Ireland then go to England so I kept the mother with Eircom...

Man, that has to be the funniest thing I've read in a while. I didn't think anyone was still under the illusion that Eircom is an Irish company.

Oops, spoke too soon:

orla wrote:

Do you not realise that eircom are very heavily regulated...?

Now I'm really laughing.

Sponge Bob

The telephone winbacks may be 'supervised' ...not that they transmit correct caller ID mind... but the door to door winback scum , recently deployed in pairs for safety but formerly on their own, absolutely don't give a crap what they say .

I don't think you ever came across them on your doorstep Orla so you would not know what they are like.

shayser

orla wrote:

Tell you anything will they?

Was blatantly lied to twice recently by Eircom sales people. The statements made to me and/or my wife were untrue and knowlingly so, in order to convince us to buy an Eircom product. The first lied about the terms of an Eircom Phonewatch agreement and yesterday and Ericom rep called to my home while I was at work. He made out to my wife that he was here "to fix the phone". He left with her signature on two contracts. One to move the phone back to Eircom and the other for a Talktime package.


There are too many posts on here and reprorts elsewhere for this not to be a policy.

JJDoherty

News this morning (article in the Irish Times) is that the amounts owed to Eircom by SmartTelecom were in fact a lot less than originally quoted by Eircom. Much of that amount was in dispute too.

It's also been announced by Noel Dempsey that the regulations will be changed to enable ComReg to prevent a re-occurrence of customers having all services pulled without express permission from the regulator. The scary thing is that this wasn't the case in the first place!

Now this also presents a great opportunity to pressure the minister into giving ComReg the power to compel Eircom to provide unhindered access to the local loop and to co-operate with the provision of number portability between operators. If at least these two new provisions could be introduced it would, no doubt, help in the leveling of the playing field and would be a great start.

Stench Blossoms

Sponge Bob wrote:

The telephone winbacks may be 'supervised' ...not that they transmit correct caller ID mind... but the door to door winback scum , recently deployed in pairs for safety but formerly on their own, absolutely don't give a crap what they say .

I don't think you ever came across them on your doorstep Orla so you would not know what they are like.

I'm not defending them and i wont either.

I can only speak for the department which i work in which is Winback.

netman

MOH wrote:

It was supposed to be free connection at the time, so I called back the next day to query this, I was going to cancel the order, and was told there had been a mistake, there would be no connection charge.

My complaint e-mails were ignored, and I had other stuff going on so didn't have the time to chase it up with Comreg.

You should chase it up, similar thing happened to me when I moved house in February this year. There was a fully working phone line in the house, I had the dial tone, but I could only ring emergency services.

I placed an order online, and it clearly says the line will be connected free of charge if you have a dial tone.

When I got my first bill I thought it was a bit high, had a look at the charges and I saw this spread payments connection charge?! Rang them up, complained, they credited me back the charge, apologised and said it's all sorted. It's 19 euro something + VAT monthly. Even though I didn't ask for spread payments, nor agree to any such thing, I figure if someone made a mistake I would be charged the full whack at once..

Anyway, in two months, the next bill arrives, spread payments connection charge again! Good lord.. rang them again and this time I got some clueless muppet who kept trying to convince me that this was right and I had to pay. After about 20 minutes of "yes you have to pay" "no i don't" she gave me a number for credit management and asked me to ring them. Rang those guys, this time it was someone who knew what they were doing, they credited me back for the spread payment charge, and said there is a dispute on the bill that I've raised two months ago that should be resolved soon and I should be credited back the full amount, and it won't be a problem anymore.. ermm.. ok..

Two months after that, another bill comes along, still with the spread payments charge, but now also with a massive credit that covers the rest of the spread payments I'll be charged during the year.. Christ...

I mean could they not just remove the stupid charge from my bill and call it a day? Instead they keep crediting my account and then debiting my account.. Needless to say my eircom bills look a mess, and VAT is charged at the end so all the credit/debit mess is without VAT, then VAT gets applied to it and .. argh!

Moral of the story.. I had to ring them a whole bunch of times. I kept a log of all the calls I've made, when I've made them, who I spoke to and what they've told me. If I were you I wouldn't let them get away with my 120 euro. I have better ways of spending that money.

Sponge Bob

orla wrote:

I'm not defending them and i wont either.

I can only speak for the department which i work in which is Winback.

There is a big difference between the usual telephone winback and the field winback people ...you know the ones Orla because ultimately you phone people set them on those who do not respond to your entreaties

Here is a job spec for the door to door scum.

The overall contract is between eircom and CPM International

They advertise the winback jobs all the time, here is one.

http://jobs.ie/ApplyForJob.aspx?Id=314686

of many

http://jobs.ie/Jobs.aspx?EmployerId=35596

• To make 6-8 face to face Broadband / winback calls per day to decision makers within the mass major business customer base
• To achieve minimum sale targets of 15 sales per week by ensuring that all sales leads are identified, confirmed with the customer, and then converted on the first customer visit.
• To ‘cold call’ customer premises, where appropriate, to exceed daily sales targets
• To understand the customers’ business, position and requirements
• To manage a defined lead base effectively in order to maximise revenue potential by selling broadband and winback to all qualifying customers
• Excellent organisational skills with paperwork and daily posting of customer orders
• Develop and meet customer needs, selling a solution that delivers value to both the customer and to eircom
• To refer sales opportunities for all additional eircom products and services wherever possible e.g eircom net, eircom total ict
• To provide competitor feedback and industry insight to sales support
• To maintain and improve knowledge on all new and existing products and services and on competitors’ offerings

(Love this bit SB )

• To represent eircom in a consistently professional manner.

(:D:D:D sigh, lying and hustling is consistent indeed )

• To generate new ideas and ways of working
• To consistently strive to reach highest standards of performance for customers
• To ensure at all times that you operate in an effective and efficient manner to complete all tasks
• To undertake any other duties and responsibilities as instructed by your line manager

Like I said before Orla thank feck for me laser.

matt-dublin

from what i hear....
smart handed over a cheque to eircom for the amount owed and eircom tore it up there and then...
also the people lines who are being "reactivated" are actually being moved to eircom wrl lines!
Smart are trying to hold out for the 3g licence...
the reason why eirscum are pushing so hard is that they want the 3g licence for meteor or else it will basically go belly up....
and plus add to that if smart get the 3g licence they will become a more prominant player in the market so eirscum will actually have to start competing with them.
And by the looks of things smart might just get that licence!