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Smart going belly up?
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Orla,orla wrote:You are talking out of your arse. I have seen people get sacked for much less than this.
Do you not realise that eircom are very heavily regulated when it comes to the winback campaign? Most of the calls are recorded and handed over to comreg and comreg tend to come in aswell and listen in.
Supervisors don't train people in eircom, Trainers train people in eircom.
And this "D" supervisor you speak of, never heard of them.
you may be a very nice person, but the fact of the matter is that you work for a shower of ***** - it is not just how they have handled Smart that points to that fact, but the way they act with ComReg even (I notice Eircom failed to produce stats again two weeks ago to Comreg re unbundling) and the way they react to their own customers and the mutton that they dress as lamb to prey on the ignorance of the wider public. Either live with that or do something about it. Personally, I would find it difficult to sleep soundly at night.
And for the record, I initially was going to get a BB connection with Eircom. I got a contract to sign and actually read its contents and rang back to talk to someone - a saleswoman gave me a quick, highly superficial runthrough but when I asked about the contention ratio I was told that wasn't important. I then asked another question and was met with a long exasperated sign and told I'd have to wait while she got the contract. Two minutes later she came back and in a bored drone gave me some answers. But I got the distinct impression that what I was supposed to do was ring up and "beg to be connected" and not be so troublesome as to actually ask what the service conditions were. This kind of arrogance turned me right off and happily I then found a service that was far better, with no contention and twice the value.0 -
art wrote:Orla,
And for the record, I initially was going to get a BB connection with Eircom. I got a contract to sign and actually read its contents and rang back to talk to someone - a saleswoman gave me a quick, highly superficial runthrough but when I asked about the contention ratio I was told that wasn't important. I then asked another question and was met with a long exasperated sign and told I'd have to wait while she got the contract. Two minutes later she came back and in a bored drone gave me some answers. But I got the distinct impression that what I was supposed to do was ring up and "beg to be connected" and not be so troublesome as to actually ask what the service conditions were. This kind of arrogance turned me right off and happily I then found a service that was far better, with no contention and twice the value.
Sorry that you had a bad experience. In future when something like this happens, get the persons name and the time they rang you / you rang them and report it to complaints. It's people like that that bring the reputation down.
I don't feel that i work for a shower of ***** tbh. I like my job and i sleep fine at night.
From my point of view, smart owed money, they didn't pay so they were cut off just like any of eircoms residential customers would be.0 -
dear oh dear... this is nothing to do with 4 million. i am curious as a smart customer, and perhaps our fellow eircom members here can answer this since they are in such a helpful mood..
did eircom inform comreg they were going to disconnect 50,000 smart customers?
when was comreg informed of the disconnections?
was the minsiter informed? if so, when?
how long did it take to disconnect 50,000 customers ?
why did you choose to disconnect customers of smart when their helpline was unavailable over the weekend?
why did you cutoff 999 calls?
why does it take 10 days to connect per person who chooses an alternate supplier?
and now to some maths issues...
4,000,000 / 50,000 = 80 euro per customer. Keep in mind this is what EIRCOM say they are owed, we have not heard from SMART yet. i would guess thats about an average 2 month bill and i am being generous on the time. so eircom tanked 50,000 customers for 8 weeks (give or take) of overpayment. a bit of speculation on my part, yes...but most companies dealing in this levels of money would have longer periods to settle payments. so does 8 weeks sounds short to perlico customers, or anyone else using eircom to supply services? if i was in those companies, i would be very very concerned. anyone of those companies have a cashflow issue for over a month, you will become the next smart. basically the message to eircoms competitors is we behave as we see fit, you do as your told. that is a desperately sad place for our country to be in.
why isnt comreg forcing smart to make a statement of intent?
why isnt comreg forcing smart to inform its customers?
what exactly do they regulate?
as i feared, this has become clouded with 'smart didnt pay'. somepeople on the last pages are quite content with this as the answer. i have, and speaking as a smart customer, no issue moving suppliers. i dont have to get over it or move on..what people are missing here is the larger issue....that issue is called COMREG. lets not skim the surface tension of 'smart didnt pay' and delve a little deeper shall we...
from comreg's website
ComReg enables competition in the communications sector by facilitating market entry through a general authorisation to provide networks and services and by regulating access to networks so as to develop effective choice for consumers both business and residential.
and another
Our activities are geared to operators and business & residential users of communications services.
and this beauty
We are responsible for promoting competition, for protecting consumers and for encouraging innovation. Our job involves dealing with complex issues of law, economics and technology, and ensuring that our decisions are taken fairly and are clearly explained.
.....
now lets looks at the smart debacle...now goto comreg and lets look at the detail of the handling of this issue...you will find 1 pdf and one other page saying a lot of people are cut off. the date of the cutoff announcement is monday...yes monday the 2nd of october. i am betting the first comreg heard of this was on the radio.
do you think they have 'protected customers' ?
do you think their decisions are fair and clearly explained?
do you think they have developed effective (i repeat, EFFECTIVE) choice?
i am speaking as a citizen of this great country...clearly they have failed on all these key drivers...THAT is the real issue at stake here...smart is the fever exposing a far more dangerous virus below....
this board has consistently kept the pressure on comreg...please please ask some other questions about the handling of smart...the issue of money is nothing more then a smokescreen...if the issue regarding the 3G license is out next week (i am going on what others have said here), then what eircom has done should be moved to the european courts on competition...it is outrageous that a monopoly like eircom can behave exactly like microsoft in shifting its corporate bulk around to influence a decision.
this is nothing to do with smart's inability to pay...it is about control, who has it, who wants it...one thing for certain, as a consumer..we have none, and our regulator is not on our side...0 -
matt-dublin wrote:from what i hear....
smart handed over a cheque to eircom for the amount owed and eircom tore it up there and then...
also the people lines who are being "reactivated" are actually being moved to eircom wrl lines!
Smart are trying to hold out for the 3g licence...
the reason why eirscum are pushing so hard is that they want the 3g licence for meteor or else it will basically go belly up....
and plus add to that if smart get the 3g licence they will become a more prominant player in the market so eirscum will actually have to start competing with them.
And by the looks of things smart might just get that licence!
Ah, crip. So if Smart survive and get the 3G license (horray!) I lose my mobile provider.0 -
orla wrote:Do you not realise that eircom are very heavily regulated when it comes to the winback campaign? .
Ha ha by who...
comreg?
the powerless superpower in ireland...
if comreg actually had the power to regulate someone they would have done something about it and provide a smoother way for people to transfer their lines instead of letting eircom cut them off...
So now you have 45000 residential customers and 17000 business customers who are quote pissed off with comreg and eirscum!
I know the calls get recorded and in fact i know the company that manufacture the software that do it....
But i seriously doubt that comreg listen to any calls because they would have to get a sepina to listen to the information because it is confidential consumer information.
Most of the call recording is done for training, desiplinary, and intuitive reasons.0 -
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i doubt it, i would say eircom will probably sell to o2 who run most of the of the meteor network anyway (i think)MOH wrote:Ah, crip. So if Smart survive and get the 3G license (horray!) I lose my mobile provider.
and then we might get a bit of proper compitition from eircom because the 3g licence is worth about €400 million to smart!
if they do get it ill be delighted! mainly because they will bring so much to the market in broadband and telecommunications.
BEST OF LUCK SMART!0 -
did eircom inform comreg they were going to disconnect 50,000 smart customers?
YES
when was comreg informed of the disconnections?
im note sure but im informed that they knew about it well in advance
was the minsiter informed? if so, when?
What the fella who won't do anything because he's not paid to regulate the industry!
how long did it take to disconnect 50,000 customers ?
was supposed to take a few hours but they got delayed by an hour and a half
why did you choose to disconnect customers of smart when their helpline was unavailable over the weekend?
because eircom suck
why did you cutoff 999 calls?
i don't think this was intentional on eirscum's behalf... i think it was a technical issue
why does it take 10 days to connect per person who chooses an alternate supplier?
to make people pissed off at smart and the mountains of paperwork that needs to be done.0 -
Anyone else think we need a "stupidity filter" on this thread?0
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matt-dublin wrote:did eircom inform comreg they were going to disconnect 50,000 smart customers?
YES
when was comreg informed of the disconnections?
im note sure but im informed that they knew about it well in advance
was the minsiter informed? if so, when?
What the fella who won't do anything because he's not paid to regulate the industry!
how long did it take to disconnect 50,000 customers ?
was supposed to take a few hours but they got delayed by an hour and a half
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Matt, i do not mean this in any nasty way but can you back up those comments. the reason i ask is the timing of this is critical. if comreg knew 'well in advance' (and i dont understand how long that is) then the minister should be involved. the entire handling of this is a riddle wrapped inside a fiasco....we maybe able to finally flush out comreg....
IF ANY JOURNALIST is out there, for gods sake, get off your ass and dig here, berties 8 grand and house is peanuts compared to this...0 -
You're not alone Watty.watty wrote:Anyone else think we need a "stupidity filter" on this thread?0 -
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The most important question for me right now is - are they going to disconnect my broadband connection? I have phoned Comreg every day this week, but can get no answer - the only information they have is to do with the fixed line customers.
Some BB people on the Smart forums are saying that they have been disconnected - but are they LLU people like me? They are geographically spread - Limerick Dublin 9, etc... I hope they don't start on Dolphin's Barn exchange... Otherwise I won't get much more work done in my home office this week...
Beyond that, the most important question is - what purpose do the Minister for Communications and Comreg actually serve - beyond rubberstamping the short-sighted business decisions of incumbent former semi-state monopolies? (c.f. ESB, Aer Lingus, Bord Gais, VHI, An Post...)0 -
Well Simp, I am in Limerick and broadband was fine last night. Could make outgoing calls but not receive incoming.0
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it was all in the irish times over the last few daysFallschirmjager wrote:Matt, i do not mean this in any nasty way but can you back up those comments. the reason i ask is the timing of this is critical. if comreg knew 'well in advance' (and i dont understand how long that is) then the minister should be involved. the entire handling of this is a riddle wrapped inside a fiasco....we maybe able to finally flush out comreg....
IF ANY JOURNALIST is out there, for gods sake, get off your ass and dig here, berties 8 grand and house is peanuts compared to this...0 -
bucks73 wrote:Well Simp, I am in Limerick and broadband was fine last night. Could make outgoing calls but not receive incoming.
Yes, bucks73 - I have the same level of service at the moment - but the posters to this thread are being cut off, it seems:-
http://support.smarttelecom.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=878
Fingers crossed they can get this sorted out soon... I'm very happy with Smart, and I don't want to have to go through the whole interminable BB switch process again...0 -
I managed at last to talk to Smart this morning about the broadband situation. After waiting for about 25 min, I got through to someone on their customer service line, which was nice considering the fact that I could only leave messages since Tuesday.
The rep told me that everyone has been disconnected now (which is probably not true, as I can still see quite a few Smart customers who still have their broadband up and running. Mine was cut off on Monday night as well as the phone service. No incoming or outgoing calls, local or otherwise, and no internet).
He then told me that they have no news as to what is going to happen to broadband customers, and advised me to call comreg.
So I did that this morning, and got through to a lady in Comreg who told me they were still in negociations about the broadband issue, and that they would post something on their website as soon as they know the outcome.
I suggested that they use some other way of communication, as all the users who have no broadband anymore and don't have the luck of working in an office with LAN connection like me will not be able to see anything that is posted on any internet site. I advised to maybe post a message on teletext on TV or something similar that everyone could get easily. She said she would pass that on.
So here is where is stands right now.0 -
simp wrote:but are they LLU people like me?QUOTE]
Yep, and both my home and my business in Letterkenny have gone. 48 people sitting here twiddling there their thumbs while they wait for their share of the 40kbs dial-up we are now foreced to use. I swear there'll be fisty cuffs yet.0 -
Did anyone listen to 98FM's show at around 10pm last night ????0
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Full Moon Angel wrote:I managed at last to talk to Smart this morning about the broadband situation. After waiting for about 25 min, I got through to someone on their customer service line, which was nice considering the fact that I could only leave messages since Tuesday.
The rep told me that everyone has been disconnected now (which is probably not true, as I can still see quite a few Smart customers who still have their broadband up and running. Mine was cut off on Monday night as well as the phone service. No incoming or outgoing calls, local or otherwise, and no internet).
He then told me that they have no news as to what is going to happen to broadband customers, and advised me to call comreg.
So I did that this morning, and got through to a lady in Comreg who told me they were still in negociations about the broadband issue, and that they would post something on their website as soon as they know the outcome.
I suggested that they use some other way of communication, as all the users who have no broadband anymore and don't have the luck of working in an office with LAN connection like me will not be able to see anything that is posted on any internet site. I advised to maybe post a message on teletext on TV or something similar that everyone could get easily. She said she would pass that on.
So here is where is stands right now.
would you be so kind as to let us know what u find out?0 -
Fallschirmjager wrote:would you be so kind as to let us know what u find out?
Hmmm... I thought I already said that in the original post. Maybe I didn't express it clearly enough.
Basically, no news. I didn't find out much apart from the fact that at least I got an answer on the phone, which is more than I got in the last 2 days.
Smart reps don't know themselves what is happening and advised me to call Comreg. Ah the Smart rep also told me that it looked a bit brighter than a few days ago. But nothing more precise than that.
So I called Comreg and they don't know either, saying negociations for broadband are still happening at the moment and they will post updates on their website as soon as they know something.
Neither Smart nor Comreg is supposed to get back to me for anything so I will keep watching the websites and forums for updates.
That's it for me I am afraid...0 -
I'm in same area as youself. Incoming calls have been restored in last hour. As far as I can tell the full service is up and running.simp wrote:Fingers crossed they can get this sorted out soon... I'm very happy with Smart, and I don't want to have to go through the whole interminable BB switch process again...0 -
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I was a winback member, quite good at it to. Most people who I wonback from smart where on the basic package, so it wasnt hard. If i got a BT customer, i didnt bother. If it was someone who rang international numbers I didnt bother. If it was a IFA member, I asked them are they not out bailing.0
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takes a certain type of person thenRasTa wrote:I was a winback member, quite good at it to. Most people who I wonback from smart where on the basic package, so it wasnt hard. If i got a BT customer, i didnt bother. If it was someone who rang international numbers I didnt bother. If it was a IFA member, I asked them are they not out bailing.0 -
peepingtom wrote:
riddle me this .... if smart telecom can afford to give you that package for such a small ammount of money compared to eircom prices, and they are renting the lines etc from eircom, and they are to be profitable?... then why cant eircom sell the same package to us for the same amount if not less?
Well it turns out that Smart couldn't afford it afterall (excuse me for stating the obvious). A lot of these new entrants operate on very slim margins indeed. Perlico for instance have operate on a margin of about 2% (according to a former boss of mine). They offer line rental and landline calls for something like 29.99 - so, lets say a customer made 15 euro worth of mobile calls aswell: perlico would make a profit of about 90c on this customer in a month.
I read a piece in the times yesterday that said that Perlico have been operating on a loss making basis for the past 2 years. However their fortunes are looking quite good as they have been very successful at attracting customers (sorry, don't have the figures in front of me) and expect to turn a profit next year. So as you can see its a very tight market, at least it is among Eircom's competitors. Attracting huge customer bases is key to success which, needless to say, can be a pretty risky strategy especially when certain operators frustrte your efforts to acquire the said customers.
Imagine telecom have also been quite successful in attracting new customers, so much so that they're becoming victims of their own success. They operate out of what an best be described as a glorified shed and have had difficulty keeping up with demand. I used to work there on the broadband provisioning 'team' (I was practically the only person taking care of that) and was on the phone to eircom wholesale every day. I never heard of any largescale efforts to fustrate transfers but they could be pretty slow at sorting out problems. (BTW, in case anyone didn't know, Imagine telecom and gaelic telecom are the exact same company).
I really do see a lot of people be scared off going over to smaller operators now especially given the fact that Smart was a well established name. Oh and if anyone has to ring eircom to go back to them or for whatever reason
please don't take out your anger on the poor agents, its not their fault.0 -
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J.S. Pill wrote:Well it turns out that Smart couldn't afford it afterall (excuse me for stating the obvious). A lot of these new entrants operate on very slim margins indeed. Perlico for instance have operate on a margin of about 2% (according to a former boss of mine). They offer line rental and landline calls for something like 29.99 - so, lets say a customer made 15 euro worth of mobile calls aswell: perlico would make a profit of about 90c on this customer in a month.
I read a piece in the times yesterday that said that Perlico have been operating on a loss making basis for the past 2 years. However their fortunes are looking quite good as they have been very successful at attracting customers (sorry, don't have the figures in front of me) and expect to turn a profit next year. So as you can see its a very tight market, at least it is among Eircom's competitors. Attracting huge customer bases is key to success which, needless to say, can be a pretty risky strategy especially when certain operators frustrte your efforts to acquire the said customers.
Imagine telecom have also been quite successful in attracting new customers, so much so that they're becoming victims of their own success. They operate out of what an best be described as a glorified shed and have had difficulty keeping up with demand. I used to work there on the broadband provisioning 'team' (I was practically the only person taking care of that) and was on the phone to eircom wholesale every day. I never heard of any largescale efforts to fustrate transfers but they could be pretty slow at sorting out problems. (BTW, in case anyone didn't know, Imagine telecom and gaelic telecom are the exact same company).
I really do see a lot of people be scared off going over to smaller operators now especially given the fact that Smart was a well established name. Oh and if anyone has to ring eircom to go back to them or for whatever reason
please don't take out your anger on the poor agents, its not their fault.
I have to strongly agree with you when you say not to take it out on the poor agents. Most of them are blind to what is going on. But i would encourage the smart BB customers to hold in there a little longer and see what happens.0 -
Comreg can't (and won't) prevent eircom fro raising the line rental, as long as eircom fudges the numbers enough to make it look like the increase is justified because of increased costs. (Those of us who are no longer teenagers will remember the 3 Line rental increases that Comreg OKed in a 15 month period - as recently as 2004).RasTa wrote:Im afraid Eircom cant push up their line rental when they feel like it. They are the ONLY telecoms company in Ireland who is operated by an outside source, so any price changes they make have to go through an outside company which most people already know is comreg. Then if comreg decide its good for the people of Ireland, eircom can change.
The mind boggles! eircom hasn't been an Irish company since Tony O'Reilly and Valentia took it private. Do you really think that the hundreds of millions that Mr O'Reilly and his buddies sucked out of the company stayed in Ireland?Oh and BT are the best, but i'd rather the money stay in Ireland then go to England so I kept the mother with Eircom, no Phone line in my house. Paying line rental is a waste of money.
You've been hoodwinked (to be very polite about it).0 -
You should have a listen to Isolde Goggin from ComReg on RTE's Morniing Ireland yesterday.Fallschirmjager wrote:if comreg knew 'well in advance' (and i dont understand how long that is) then the minister should be involved. the entire handling of this is a riddle wrapped inside a fiasco....we maybe able to finally flush out comreg...
http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/2178952.smil
http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/1004/mibusiness.html0 -
Just rang smart and finally got through to a support person. I asked if they knew when or if I’d have broadband again. They said that I’d been disconnected by Eircom for no reason (Eircom apparently weren’t supposed to disconnect the BB subscribers) and now I’m essentially no longer a Smart customer! He said I’d have to go through the process of replying to Smart for an account and that he’d pass me through to sales. I asked if there was any point in re-subscribing if Smart were about to die and he said that they had just been informed that they were no longer a ‘phone’ provider but instead were coming back as a BB provider and will keep and honour their current BB subscribers, so I should be fast-tracked back as a customer seeing as my line is BB ready and I have the equipment etc all ready and waiting.
I was transferred to sales, waited a while and eventually someone picked up the phone and started dialing out! When I started shouting ‘Hello!’ at them they hung up. So I called back, got through to sales and explained my situation. They took my details, disappeared for a few mins and then came back and said they’d have to call me back with an update. So I’m none the wiser.
This is very like a situation I previously experienced with another BB provider in Australia. I had just arrived in the country and signed up with a company that went bust about a month later, it was quite a big deal. I remember talking to a sales rep on what turned out to be the company’s last day and he was still trying to sell BB, despite everyone saying the company was all but dead. So that makes me wary, the sales people and support people seemed quite upbeat but I think in many cases they are no wiser than the customer. I don’t mind going through a little hassle to get back with Smart, as long as they don’t disappear any time soon.0 -
I just called Smart myself again, to ask if I would be in the same situation as chabsey, and if I am still a Smart customer, and I was told that it looks like Broadband customers will be fine.
The rep said they were not able to take on any new voice customers, but the broadband side seem ok.
That includes voice as part of the broadband package. So she told me to check when I get home if the whole connection is back, and if it is not, to call back tomorrow as they will know more then.
So that's what I'll do.
I think I will stay with Smart until I know at least a bit more about what is going to happen.
I don't like being rushed into switching and I would particularly do anything not to switch back to Eircom. So I'll wait and see.0 -
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I've just been told the following by Comreg:
I can confirm that the interim deal was reached, and while you can
appreciate that this is a rather fluid situation, the latest word is
that service will be restored to all Smart customers by tomorrow.0
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