Another Speeding Thread...Zzzz

MrPudding

sk8board wrote:

The german system is proof that if you have no speed limits on large parts of your motorway's, that people will not actually speed! self-policing.

Not quite true. There is only a very small percentage of the german Motorway system which is still unrestricted. According to Jason Plato that is. I have not actually checked it out myself but apparently it is small and getting smaller all the time.

Does anyone know what the stopping distance is from 200KPH?

MrP

dubstub

I've driven through Germany on the autobahns. It is true that only a small percentage of the road has no limit. Cars do speed up here but most people behave. You do get the odd 911 tearing up the overtaking lane but the quality of driving is good so it never seemed dangerous. If that happened here you'd have a load of people cruising along in the overtaking lane at 120kph oblivious to anything else... until the 911 creamed into them at 215kph.
Braking distance (including the thinking time required) for 200kph would be around 820ft or 54 car lengths :eek:

Alun

I've driven in Germany ... a lot, not just once or twice on holidays. I lived there for many years.

There are still lots of unrestricted stretches of autobahn, but that doesn't mean that everybody drives along at 200+ km/h, far from it. What you do find is that everybody drives along at a speed that is comfortable for them and suitable for the road conditions without having to continually be looking at their speedometers. In general, that will be on average far higher than most motorways here, though, and you certainly won't find anyone pottering along at 90km/h like you do here. It's hard to say what the average speed would be, but you won't find that many doing much over, say, 160km/h. However, there will be some, maybe 10% of drivers who will do much, much more than this, and you have to be constantly aware of this when overtaking.

When speed limits do appear, say 130, 120 or 100 km/h on restrticted sections, the Germans on the whole abide by them.

Personally I find driving at 160-180km/h on German autobahns quite relaxing, much more so than 120km/h on an Irish motorway. I have driven in Germany for extended periods at 200km/h and have touched 230km/h on a couple of occasions, but I have to admit I didn't fel that comfortable with it, and the levels of concentration needed are quite tiring.

As for being fined for speeding ... the German system has something called the Richtgeschwindigkeit, hard to translate literally but it's a speed, 130 km/h, above which, if you're involved in an accident you get apportioned a percentage of the blame, even if you weren't directly to blame for it.

peasant

A short essay on German motorways and speeds thereon:

When motorways were first buildt (1930's) speed wasn't an issue and therefore not regulated.

After WWII it took until about the 1970's until cars reached sufficient speeds and numbers to have a speed limit discussion for the first time.

During and after the 70's oil crisis a "recommended" top speed of 130 km/h was heavily promoted and is to this day.

There have been several discussions and attempts made over recent decades to introduce a speed limit of 130 or 120 km/h.

The reason why there is no general speed limit on German Autobahns is NOT that Autobahns are deemed safe for everyone to speed as they please, but a political and economical one
Barring the Isle of Man and probably some parts of outer Mongolia / Papua New Guinea EVERY motorised country in the world has a mandatory speed limit but Germany.

Now consider what nation is one of the biggest car builders in the world ...exactly ...Germany.

Speed sells. The mere idea that a Porsche 911 *could* be driven at 300 km/h on an Autobahn is what sells it to the Texan oil baron who can only drive it at 55 miles max.

Speed drives competition. The newer or bigger model of any car always has to be more powerful and potentially faster than the previous one. This in turn drives competition and innovation which in turn drives new car sales. Everybody wants to own the better model.

The autoindustry lobby has so far successfully prevented the introduction of a general speed limit, because it is afraid of losing sales and momentum if nobody can go fast anymore. Why buy a 300bhp beemer if you can't drive it the way it's meant to be driven?
If it wasn't for the non existing speed limit, I'd bet you a totally superflous car like the Porsche Cayenne would never have been buildt. (incidentically ...the Cayenne is exactly the car that turned Porsche's fortunes)

But what is the reality on German motorways?

I don't have the exact figures, but I reckon that max. 10% of the whole network still remains unrestricted. In all other cases the authorities (because of traffic density) had to introduce either fixed limits or spend millions on computer controlled systems that measure traffic and conditions and set the speed limit accordingly.

Even if it isn't restricted you'll be hard pressed to find a stretch that isn't congested and actually allows you to open up.

If you really want to drive your high powered car at full throttle for longer than five minutes, we're talking a long drive to a far out quiet stretch of Autobahn and an early hours of the morning scenario.

Anan1

sk8board wrote:

I'm not sure that the problem we have is with the "If the roads not empty then the conditions may not be suitable for such speeds" part of what you've been saying.

The problem is that you seem to be justifying 200kph AT ANY TIME, or conditions

Where, other than in your head, did I say that?

sk8board wrote:

And the German system is NOT proof that speed is safe on an empty motorway! thats a con that you've heard on british motorshows, who go there to test cars.
The german system is proof that if you have no speed limits on large parts of your motorway's, that people will not actually speed! self-policing.

You've read too many stories of brokers on autobahn's in 911's, or else have never drove long journey's in Germany.
Incidently, you CAN get fined for speeding on the unrestricted autobahn, where its deemed overly excessive and dangerous. I'm guessing 200kph falls into that category.

save it for Mondello. (or Hockenheim?! )

I lived and drove in Germany for five years, and I can assure you from personal experience that 200km/h is a normal enough cruising speed on an unrestricted Autobahn.

sk8board wrote:

Incidently, 200kph is 125MPH!!!!!

Wow.

unkel

Alun wrote:

Personally I find driving at 160-180km/h on German autobahns quite relaxing, much more so than 120km/h on an Irish motorway

I agree. It depends a bit on the type of car too. On a quiet good quality continental motorway I find 140-150km/h in a supermini is quite relaxed, in a family saloon like a Mondeo it might be 160-170km/h and in a motorway muncher like a large german saloon, a cruising speed of 200km/h is quite comfortable

It is years ago that I last went significantly faster than 120km/h on the M50 in any car...

peasant wrote:

I don't have the exact figures, but I reckon that max. 10% of the whole network still remains unrestricted

I don't have any links either, but iirc a few years ago the majority of Autobahns was still unrestricted

To add to your point about the political dimension: only the green party is in favour of a general restriction. Most German manufacturers stick to a gentleman's agreement to restrict cars to 250km/h. Porsche is not one of them though

I can see an increasing number of high speed accidents in the near future (probably mainly tourists on high speed "Autobahn holidays") bringing it all to an end

peasant

unkel wrote:

I can see an increasing number of high speed accidents in the near future (probably mainly tourists on speeding holidays) bringing it all to an end

What will bring it to an end is:

a) congestion: you can stack a lot more cars safely on a given amount of space at 130 km/h than you can at 160 km/h or even 200 km/h

b) rising fuel prices: a lot more people drive economically (around 120 - 140 km/h) these days and voices to restrict speed limits (to make overtaking at 120 km/h safer) are actually getting louder

c) the rising number of severe accidents on motorways: as even superminis these days are able to comfortably do 140 - 160 km/h as a constant speed, the speeds in the overtaking lane(s) are rising, whereras the columns of trucks still trundle along at a restricted 85 km/h in the driving lane. As the speed differential between the two lanes gets bigger, accidents keep getting worse. (when you pull out at 90 - 100 into the overtaking lane, it makes a big difference if the traffic coming up behind you is doing 120 or 160)

Gatster

(incidentically ...the Cayenne is exactly the car that turned Porsche's fortunes)

Wasn't that the Boxster?

Regardless, if conditions are Ok and there is no one around, 200 km/h IMO would be acceptable if your car is genuinely capable of these speeds (not sure what Anan1 drives, maybe a new Golf GTI???) and it wasn't for the ridiculously woeful central reservations in Ireland (why people so often end up on the wrong side of m-ways here). Quite when the opportunity to get to 200km/h and sustain on Irish roads is beyond me though...

Anan1

Gatster wrote:

Regardless, if conditions are Ok and there is no one around, 200 km/h IMO would be acceptable if your car is genuinely capable of these speeds (not sure what Anan1 drives, maybe a new Golf GTI???) and it wasn't for the ridiculously woeful central reservations in Ireland (why people so often end up on the wrong side of m-ways here)

I drive a well-maintained Mercedes C280, the top speed of which is 225km/h. 200km/h is well within the limits of the car.

Gatster wrote:

Quite when the opportunity to get to 200km/h and sustain on Irish roads is beyond me though...

Not that often, although most of my driving is done at off-peak times.

golfnuts

Back on the subject of the Volvo or Subaru. I was coming from the Juilianstown to Duleek rd and spotted a red SUV not sure what car it was but they were parked in behind the entrance to a garden. You could see from the way they were positioned that they could see what was coming over the crest of the hill. Then while I was waiting to turn onto the road for Drogheda I could see flashing blue lights in my mirrors but funnily only in the grill and the windscreen of the SUV. They seemed to be pulling someone in who was a couple of cars behind me. But they did look like uniformed garda.

commited

stovelid wrote:

And of course if this moron loses control of the car at that speed, it will quietly spin to the side of the road rather than through the fence and into oncoming traffic.

I also don't believe the other waffle. I'm willing to bet that most people who blatantly break motorway speed limits hardly drive meekly around areas with lower speed limits.

quietly spinning? to the side of the road? You make it sound like a ballet move. So speeding in a residential area is ok, because if you spin out of control you end up on the pavement?
Yeah... makes sense.

I break motorway limits, but not residential limits. I do 1500miles/week - cant afford to get done speeding on lower speedlimit roads. 140kph on my speedo on a motorway is only about 130kph indicated, which the guards generally turn a blind eye to. If i get caught, I get caught. I know the risks.

I was behind a chap who was doing 50kph on the end of the N6 (near N4) today. It's an 80kph, non overtaking zone. I was behind him, so didnt overtake. I was overtaken (dangerously) by 3 or 4 cars (who'd been sticking happily behind me at 80kph before). What does that tell you about so called non-speeders?

All in all - if you speed, be prepared to deal with the consequences. If you dont, dont whinge about people doing 15% over the speedlimit on empty motorways.

sk8board

unkel wrote:

Of course he didn't justify driving at those speeds at any time under any conditions. Read the F. thread again...



No you CAN NOT get fined for speeding as you would not be breaking the speed limit as there is no speed limit on some sections of Autobahn

course you can get fined. As I said, for Dangerous driving, as a result of excessive speed.

as you say 'read the F thread again'.

forget germany. the point, (and i know, not the OP's point), is that 125mph on any irish road is nuts.

as we all know too well, innocent people are killed every year by other peoples silly speed. Do you think they agree that 125mph is ok?

outside my local (on side of N-class road ), seven people were killed by one persons test-drive, about 8 years ago. An entire family, spending the day christmas shopping. Didn't know what hit them. Do you think they want to know about people playing God doing 200kph?

this has turned into such a bulls*it thread. we're trying to justify something thats not justifyable. Its all up to the guy behind the wheel, and whats between their ears.

isn't this what track-days are for?

I best get back to work

Seth Brundle

Anan1 wrote:

I drive a well-maintained Mercedes C280, the top speed of which is 225km/h. 200km/h is well within the limits of the car.

I drive a similar car and have done speeds such as the ones you mention. The car is well able for it (I easily managed >200km/h with a loaded car and roofbox on the continent before).
However, the speed limits are there for when the car needs to come to a sudden stop.
Irish roads and the users who drive on them are simply not capable of these speeds. I think we can all agree on that. If the standard of driving increased and with some road improvements then there my be a justification for increasing speed limits slightly on motorways & dual carriageways.

unkel

sk8board wrote:

course you can get fined. As I said, for Dangerous driving, as a result of excessive speed.

as you say 'read the F thread again'

:rolleyes:

You said:

sk8board wrote:

you CAN get fined for speeding on the unrestricted autobahn

You CANNOT get fined for speeding but I'm confident you can get fined for dangerous driving, shooting a traffic cop, etc....

Anan1

kbannon wrote:

I drive a similar car and have done speeds such as the ones you mention. The car is well able for it (I easily managed >200km/h with a loaded car and roofbox on the continent before).
However, the speed limits are there for when the car needs to come to a sudden stop.
Irish roads and the users who drive on them are simply not capable of these speeds. I think we can all agree on that. If the standard of driving increased and with some road improvements then there my be a justification for increasing speed limits slightly on motorways & dual carriageways.

I think some Irish roads are well able for it, but agree that many Irish drivers are not. This is why I would only countenance such speeds here on a clear road in good conditions.