WHEN RENAULTS GO WRONG (pic)

JHMEG

maidhc wrote:

Except diesels ignite due to compression, not because of a heat source.

Yup, hence why I said the condition known as "dieseling" affects petrol engine.

Being absolutely precise about it: diesel engines ingite due to heat which is caused by extreme compression of the air in the cylinders. The air gets so hot the suspended diesel ignites.

sk8board

Its a pity to hear all this about the renault diesels, but unfortunately i've seen a very similar problem with my mother-in-laws megane, although it was stalled immediately, and since rectified.
Incidently she sold me her '00 Megane Rxi (the 1.4 petrol 16v 98bhp one) about 4 years ago, and still talks about it being the worst desision she ever made!
On a side tangent, she had a BIG scare just a few months ago when the power steering failed completely while at speed. Resembled a small woman steering a tank!

maidhc

JHMEG wrote:

Yup, hence why I said the condition known as "dieseling" affects petrol engine.

Being absolutely precise about it: diesel engines ingite due to heat which is caused by extreme compression of the air in the cylinders. The air gets so hot the suspended diesel ignites.

I know! My point is that the term "dieseling" is a misnomer, as petrol engines don't "run on" because the compression in the cylinder is causing the petrol to ignite... unless of course we accept "dieseling" to refer to the operation of semi-diesel engines, which ironically enough don't generally run on diesel.

(completely OT, i know!)

fletch

joolsveer wrote:

I have a Renault Mégane and its not as bad as those ones. In three years it has only broken down about a dozen times and has never gone on fire yet. I'm thinking of trading it in for another.

Are you for real!? I have a '98 Escort and in two years it hasn't broken down once!

sk8board

fletch wrote:

Are you for real!? I have a '98 Escort and in two years it hasn't broken down once!

a '98 escort that hasn't broken down in 2 years? Have you actually drove it?

junkyard

Escorts might be bland, boring and primitive but they don't break down anything like a new Renault will and thats a fact. Renaults are rubbish and anyone who knows anything about cars will confirm this. If anything, the newer the Renault the worse it is.

sk8board

junkyard wrote:

If anything, the newer the Renault the worse it is.

its a pity, but it seems to certainly be the case.

that said, you only every hear about the horror stories; the silent majority (95%?) with no issues will never write about that fact.
I always buy at knockdown prices (for good reason), but if you know your way around a car, you can pick a cheap winner every time. Buying a renault new is just not a good idea. ('06 laguna for 20k anyone?)

personally I'll never ever buy another Mondeo or a Peogeot (of any kind) based on past grievences, but can't guarantee I won't buy another Renault as i've never ever had a problem; and I've found the comfort level, trim and ride always excellent.

I don't buy diesels (at the moment), so don't see this problem in the thread putting me off.

junkyard

Generally speaking the silent majority don't like to admit they f**ked up and bought a lemon and get shot of said lemon as soon as possible. Why do you think there are so many 06 Renaults for sale around the place? And I'm not talking ex-hire drives either, these are privately owned cars that have caused major problems. Ask any car dealer and off the record they will confirm this.

crosstownk

I deal with all makes and models from a leasing perspective. Very few people lease Renaults anymore. Reason being that the residual is just sh1t. At the end of lease we sell the cars to the trade, and they will not pay decent money for a Renault. This drives the residual price down and the lease premium up making a Renault uncompetitive. So its not just what the few here on boards.ie think - its a well known fact in the motor trade - steer clear of a Renault. From a motor traders point of view its a costly item to sell. And the newer the Renault the worse it is.

I'm not out to 'Renault bash' - I'm just saying what I see every day of the week.

damo605

I had a Renault (Safrane 2.0 petrol) and it was a fabulous car, my father-in-law has a 96 Laguna 2.2 diesel with *massive* mileage and it's a great car too!
On the other hand I know a guy who had a new shape Megane (From span new) and he was literally counting down the days 'till he traded it in, it gave him that much trouble. I also know someone with a new shape Laguna (03) and to be honest they would be a lot happier if they didn't have it.
I don't know if it's to do with the more advanced electronics or what but is it my imagination that newer cars in general (Many brands) seem to be getting less reliable/more troublesome?

Guy:Incognito

junkyard wrote:

Generally speaking the silent majority don't like to admit they f**ked up and bought a lemon and get shot of said lemon as soon as possible. Why do you think there are so many 06 Renaults for sale around the place? And I'm not talking ex-hire drives either, these are privately owned cars that have caused major problems. Ask any car dealer and off the record they will confirm this.

Carzone have 275 06 renaults and 456 06 toyotas at the minute. Crappy toyotas?

junkyard

Check out the sales figures ratio and you'll see how many Toyota are sold compared to Renaults. Seriously though, as a car dealer myself, we can't all be wrong. Cars earn their stripes, be they good or bad, I wouldn't put a car down without good reason and its the same reason why some cars are worth more money secondhand than others. But I suppose some people will stick to their guns and buy crap cars, its ultimately their choice.

BrianD3

junkyard wrote:

Renaults are rubbish and anyone who knows anything about cars will confirm this. If anything, the newer the Renault the worse it is.

Well junkyard - most of what you post in this forum is just exaggerated and ridicuous bashing of various makes from Renault to VW, Alfa to Volvo. Just on the Volvos I've read a few times that you regard the modern ones as plastic sh1t and only crappy Renaults underneath, not decent safe reliable cars like they used to be 20 years ago. Then in the next sentence you'll say how great modern Ford cars are.

Anyone who knows anything about cars will see all that's wrong with statements like these.

Also you rarely get into specifics. I'd love to know exactly what problems you've encountered with various makes that you bash. But no, instead you come out with meaningless "soundbites" like RENAULT? I'D SOONER STICK PINS IN MY EYES. You've felt that is important/funny enough to put in your signature alongside the ads for the car you are selling. PS I believe commerical advertising is not allowed on boards. I'm surprised you haven't been stopped from doing this.

I also notice from a cached version of your sig from june this year that you were flogging a 2001 Laguna, funnily enough you didn't have the stick pins in my eyes statement in then :rolleyes:

Junkyard's old sig from google cache wrote:

Wanted: Old Matchbox, Dinky Toys, Corgi, model cars etc., all conditions, top prices paid. P.M. me with details.
I buy REAL cars, classic and modern, for cash too, P.M. me.
For Sale: 2001 Renault Laguna 5750euros (trade)
For Sale: 2003 Hyundai Getz 1.1 Sport.
For Sale: 1997 BMW 525TDS M5 replica, leather, auto.
For Sale: 2006 Volvo S40 Diesel.
For Sale: 1996 Micra 1.0 3dr.P/S.a/c nct 1999euros

Also on your statement in the last post about 2nd hand values - you bash VW almost as much as you bash Renault yet the VW Golf is one of the best cars in its class for holding its value. I am not a VW fan and think they are overvalued but at the same time your bashing is the other extreme. If 2nd hand values are a measure of how good a car is then why this discrepancy.

junkyard

Well Brian the Laguna is still for sale so it looks like its your lucky day. As regards faults with Renaults anyway, we'll stick to them as your such a fan, igniter failure and failure by Renault to rectify the problem and the result being the new igniter fails after about six weeks. Breakdowns as a result of electrical component failure, again a problem that Renault can't seem to fix. As I mentioned in a recent post which you don't seem to have noticed, a customer of mine has a 2006 Senic with major brake problems which go from being stuck on to no brakes at all and after four attempts by the main dealer with no success the garages reply is to "p*ss off, we can't fix the problem so sue us if you like" I think this kind of treatment to somebody who has paid a lot of money for a car is totally unacceptable as most people can't park up a 06 car and do with out it for years as the courts fight it out as to who is to blame. I could be here for the day typing out problems and no doubt Brian you'd have a defence for every one of them, your actually starting to sound like a Renault customer service person, but to be honest I couldn't be bothered as I'll never own one but if they work for you the best of luck.

VW's don't hold their money that well in my part of the country and I stick to my guns that they're not as good as they're made out to be. The earlier ones were very well built but as I've said before the new ones are overly complicated and as a result fail on a regular basis.

BrianD3

Yes I read the post about the 06 Scenic that the garage is apparently refusing to fix. I didn't mention it as I was dubious about the story and thought there could be two sides to it. A 06 car under manufacturer warranty that the garage is refusing to fix? Why the hell would a garage turn down work especially since Renault will be the ones paying. It's even more surprising considering its a brake problem. For obvious reasons main dealers are very wary about sending a customer away if there is even the slightest possibility that their brakes may be faulty.

If this garage is sending customers away with faulty brakes then I can't see them holding on to their Renault franchise for long. If I were the owner of that Scenic i'd bring it to another main dealer and see if they also don't want Renault's money for warranty work.

No I do not work for Renault. I don't deny that they can have problems but with 20 years worth of Renault ownership in our family I can talk about specifics. Even though my own Laguna II and the ones owned by my mates have been very reliable I am well aware of the potential weak areas on the Laguna II from reading forums and talking to people I know in Renault dealers.

joolsveer

BreadBoard wrote:

Would that post be considered to be an oxymoron post?

only broken down about a dozen times and you want another?

No. I meant to be humorous. In truth I would never buy a Renault (or a Peugeot) again.

BreadBoard

Ah, I'm sorry I misunderstood you

I myself have drove Nissan cars since I was 19. I had a 91 Micra, I done the scrapage deal on that in 2000 for a 00 Micra and this year I moved to the 1.8 2000 Primera. I have drove other cars but I don't think I can comment on cars really as I have only owned Nissan cars. But I can tell you that if was to get another car it more than likely be a Nissan as I have very little problems with them. I had only one problem with my 00 Micra, the clutch went on it about 18 months later but luckily enough it was a fault on the car and not mine and was repaired under the warranty. I never had a problem with it after that.

What's your opinion on Nissan's junkyard?

fletch

sk8board wrote:

a '98 escort that hasn't broken down in 2 years? Have you actually drove it?

I've put up over 24k miles in the last 2 years and no joke not one single issue and she's pushing 110k miles! It hasn't even been to a garage, save for new tyres but I change the oil every 4-5 miles myself and do other easy jobs. (spark plugs, filters, coolant) I'm literally in amazement at how reliable it is.
My Auntie had a '99 Clio and the electrics were a complete disaster...she will never buy a Renault again, when she was trading she bought a Polo and deliberately got one with no electrics after her experience with the Renault.

BrianD3

In fairness to junkyard he's not the only Renault basher in this forum. There are others too and TBH a lot of what is posted doesn't stand up to scrutiny. For instance I have read wildy exaggerrated prices being mentioned for work carried out on Renaults by main dealers. Owning a Renault myself I got worried and decided to verify these price. What I found was that the prices being quoted here were way OTT compared to what Renault dealers were actually quoting/charging.

Also there are vested interets in this forum. I believe the thread starter is the son of a Toyota dealer, he's hardly going to have an unbiased view now is he? Will probably end up working in or taking over the garage eventually.

BreadBoard

BrianD3 wrote:

In fairness to junkyard he's not the only Renault basher in this forum. There are others too and TBH a lot of what is posted doesn't stand up to scrutiny. For instance I have read wildy exaggerrated prices being mentioned for work carried out on Renaults by main dealers. Owning a Renault myself I got worried and decided to verify these price. What I found was that the prices being quoted here were way OTT compared to what Renault dealers were actually quoting/charging.

Also there are vested interets in this forum. I believe the thread starter is the son of a Toyota dealer, he's hardly going to have an unbiased view now is he? Will probably end up working in or taking over the garage eventually.

Well here's the opinion of a non car dealer/mechanic/etc person;

I would not buy a Renault !

The reason I say this is because I have some good friends and generally ppl are honest and in many conversations with these ppl cars would be a subject that would pop-up, and I can honestly say that if Renault comes into the conversation they feeling I get from the majority of these ppl would be that Renault are not reliable.

I've seen this myself on the road. This is a good example;

It's night time (daytime this works too ) and you see a car ahead of you driving forward with it's reverse light(s) on it then indicates to turn left/right and the brake lights start to flash along with the indicator. You get up close to this car and it's always either a Renault, Peugeot or a Fiat.

junkyard

BreadBoard wrote:

Ah, I'm sorry I misunderstood you

I myself have drove Nissan cars since I was 19. I had a 91 Micra, I done the scrapage deal on that in 2000 for a 00 Micra and this year I moved to the 1.8 2000 Primera. I have drove other cars but I don't think I can comment on cars really as I have only owned Nissan cars. But I can tell you that if was to get another car it more than likely be a Nissan as I have very little problems with them. I had only one problem with my 00 Micra, the clutch went on it about 18 months later but luckily enough it was a fault on the car and not mine and was repaired under the warranty. I never had a problem with it after that.

What's your opinion on Nissan's junkyard?

I've no real problems with Nissan, some models are better than others, the Almera and the Micra being about their best models. Build quality could be better but their engines seem good as do their electrics.
The point I'm making about Renault is that the dealers don't seem to be able to fix some of the problems because the componants that are causing the problems are flawed to start with so how can the dealer fix a design problem?
If you want actual contact info Brian I can P.M. you the details of the people involved and they will confirm what I've brought to light here.

BrianD3

fletch wrote:

I've put up over 24k miles in the last 2 years and no joke not one single issue and she's pushing 110k miles! It hasn't even been to a garage, save for new tyres but I change the oil every 4-5 miles myself and do other easy jobs. (spark plugs, filters, coolant) I'm literally in amazement at how reliable it is.
My Auntie had a '99 Clio and the electrics were a complete disaster...she will never buy a Renault again, when she was trading she bought a Polo and deliberately got one with no electrics after her experience with the Renault.

Without knowing the history of the two cars its hard to comment. Perhaps your Escort had a lot of wear and tear parts replaced shortly before you bought giving a new lease of life to the car and making it reliable for another 50-100k. Have you a FSH for the car to see what was done.

Electrical problems can be related to poor workmanship when installing aftermarket alarms, phone kits etc. I am not saying that this is necessarily the case with the Clio but without knowing the history of the car and how it's been treated its hard to comment. Also Renaults are generally better equipped than other comparable cars as you say the way to avoid electrical problems can be to buy a car with few electrics! It makes me laugh when someone says their 1985 VW Jetta diesel is great because German engineering has meant it never given an electrical problem in 20 years. Of course the fact that it's a primitive diesel engine and is poverty spec had nothing whatsoever to do with it.....

Also breadboard you're going to have to stop buying Nissans if think Renaults are sh1t. Renault now own most/all of Nissan, some engines are shared and expect future models to have more in common. It could get to a stage where Renaults and Nissans are as closely related as VWs and Skodas.

@ junkyard - I would encourage the Scenic owner to get in contact with another Renault main dealer. I don't know anything about the dealers down in Cork but I have never had a bad experience with a main dealer in the Leinster/Dublin/Ulster area. IME dealers are always delighted to carry out warranty work and it is impossible to believe that this brake porblem with the Scenic is "incurable". Try Joe Mallons in Naas for a start

maidhc

BrianD3 wrote:

Without knowing the history of the two cars its hard to comment. Perhaps your Escort had a lot of wear and tear parts replaced shortly before you bought giving a new lease of life to the car and making it reliable for another 50-100k. Have you a FSH for the car to see what was done.

My mondeo has 170k up, never broke down, and has never had a big bill for replacement parts. This isn't unusual for a mondeo either!

Btw a Micra and Clio 3 are the same car!

BrianD3

maidhc wrote:

My mondeo has 170k up, never broke down, and has never had a big bill for replacement parts. This isn't unusual for a mondeo either!

I don't doubt it. The fact that the car has been in your family since new is a plus though, you know its entire history and you've probably treated it far better than someone who buys a 2nd hand car.

maidhc

BrianD3 wrote:

I don't doubt it. The fact that the car has been in your family since new is a plus though, you know its entire history and you've probably treated it far better than someone who buys a 2nd hand car.

All true.

One thing I will say about Renaults is they are remarkably comfortable cars. I had an 06 Clio dynamique rental car recently and it was lovely. It also had cornering lights that came on when you turned the steering wheel at less than 60km/h or so, which was really handy around the city... and they also gave the world intermittent wipers...

junkyard

Thanks for the interest Brian but Renault can't seem to fix the problem either, the owners have been on to Renault Ireland and they won't even return his calls at this stage. Their earlier response was to trade his senic in against another one and they even wanted money so you can imagine how p**sed off he is. He's trading it in for a Ford Galaxy now anyway because his wife is afraid to drive it. Pretty bad show by Renault by all accounts.:(

gyppo

I'm not trying to pee on anyones cornflakes here, but I've looked at this site lots of times when choosing a potential motor.
There are lots of disgruntled laguna owners out there from the look of it:

http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_Renault_Laguna_2001.html
http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_Renault_Laguna_2002.html
http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_Renault_Laguna_2003.html

Compare this to a lowly mondeo:
http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_Ford_Mondeo_2002.html
http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_Ford_Mondeo_2003.html
http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_Ford_Mondeo_2004.html

You have to agree that Junkyard has a point.

sk8board

All good points, but unfortunately the residuals on Mondeo's are not much better than the Laguna.

EDIT: I read in the Sunday papers that they launced the new Mondeo at the Paris Motor show during the week, due here next year, and it looks fantastic. Hopefully they can put the ride and build from the new Focus into it

as a Renault driver, I have to say I was amazed by how cheap the laguna's are 2nd hand. People surely understand that cheap prices should sound all the alarm bells. These people are not selling cheap because they like to lose money; they do it because they don't think it'll sell in the first place.

As I said in previous posts, its a pity, but it seems the new(er) renaults are the worst. My uncle bought new LAguna in '01. he's been buying Renault for as long as I can remember (20 years+), and the Laguna caused so much trouble, it made him change to a Nissan Primera (no, I didn't tell him its essentially the same car/factory).
Coincidently, both car's needed a new Dashboard in the first 6 months from purchase )

Had a Megane in mind for my wife (she also drives a 99 clio, brilliant wee car), but now getting a new 1.6 Forcus Zetec.
Drove a 1.8T Cupra yesterday at Airside and seriously thinking of selling my own car now too!

gyppo

I agree, residuals on the Mondeo are'nt anything to write home about.
A private buyer would make a bad investment buying a mondeo brand new.
However, buy a diesel tdci at about a year old when its already lost 8-10k - then you have a cracking car.
Anyway, sorry for deviating off-topic. There is sometimes a correlation between reliability and residual value - however this is often overshadowed by badge snobbery.

BrianD3

I agree that there are a lot of blue faces for the Laguna on the carsurvey website. It doesnt look good but at least the 2003 model year cars seem to be better than the earlier ones. Remember when this car was launched it had some equipment never seen before in a family car so it's not a big surprise there were problems. The tyre pressure sensors are much maligned but AFAIC most failures are due to rough handling by tyre fitters who are not used to fitting tyres to wheels with an easily damaged electronic unit contained in the wheel/valve. Another thing that can happen is if owner fits metal dust caps on the valves the caps can corrode on and the result is a new valve is needed, can happen on any car but replacing the valve in a Laguna II is a more expensive job than on a car that doesn't have a pressure monitoring system

Another thing about carsurvey - it is interesting to see how some so-called unreliable cars do very well. Eg the Alfa 156 has loads of yellow faces but if you read the reviews you'll find that owners have rated the car highly even if they have had some problems. The average Alfa owners is more likely to be enthusiast and willing to put up with a bit of unreliability/extra maintenance. Renault owners are less likely to be enthusiasts and the cars themselves are more boring than Alfas from an enthusiast POV so any reliability problems the car gets slated by owners.