I've had enough

fade2black

I'm ashamed at what I saw tonight. To be beaten 5-2 by germany or Italy would be embarrassing. This is on a whole other scale.

We buy jersies, we buy tickets, we pay for flights and hotels we get into fights with people in pubs, and for what? Professional footballers. Players who don't really have to put in much of an effort, cause they're gonna get paid either way. The green jersey? Sure it's just another game.

Why should we devalue ourselves by watching these premadonnas every week, kissing their badges, pretending they're loyal to a team, and then fucking off to Chelsea at the end of the season. On the front of Hello Magazine with a girl who they probably cheated on dozens of times in the last week.

Players like O Shea and O Brien should be thanking God each night that they're professional footballers, what I saw of them tonight makes me want to vomit. They should apologise tomorrow. To all those who went to Cyprus, and to all those who watched at home.

We go to these matches and we say, "Ah fair play to him, he came over and signed my bit of paper.". bollox. These players are so privilged to be where they are and they think they're doing a fans a favour by signing a bit of paper. Remember, these people wouldn't be where they are without the fans. The only good thing in football these days is the fans.

I miss the days of the big match on ITV. I miss the days of Big Jack. I miss the days where players played their hearts out cause they knew they were playing for the green army. Personally, I blame those Sky. Of course we'll have all those who'll come on and say, oh but without Sky we wouldn't have so much soccer on the box....so what? There's probably a match going on a few miles from your house.

England had a pathetic draw. Ireland made a fool of themselves, the worst performance in the history of Irish Football. What does that say about the Premier League? It says they're not very good afterall. Put them all on a couple of grand a week and see what happens.

For those who think that the GAA should be professionalised, tonight was a great advertisement for it never going in that direction.

That's it. To hell with them. McGeady is still young, his hunger for the game has yet to be fulfilled by the money, and that showed tonight. As for the rest of them... I hope they take a long hard look at themselves tonight instead of sampling the Cyprus night life.

_blank_

Big pat on the back for f2b.

Best post I've seen here in a long, long time.

KdjaCL

Spot on cept for the Mac geady part, he" chose" ireland for his own career.


kdjac

Aquos76

Excellent post Fade.

Pigman II

I've felt this way since about 1993. I think the Sky money changed the game fundamentally for the worse.

Collie D

Good point, even the mighty Russians have done **** all in international football since the threat of being sent to Siberia was removed. That "team" out there tonight should be forced to compensate the poor ****ers who spent a fortune going over to that game, absolutley delighted that I decided not to go this time

mike65

At what point did Sky suck the will to win out of players hearts?

Mike.

Ruu_Old

Sad but true, it is all about the money for a great deal of the players with their photo shoots and fancy cars. Good post.

L5

The same point they paid hundreds of millions for tv rights, effectively paying players sky high wages.

Collie D

I'm reminded of a Dunphy quote by the OP. "What's all this nonsense about footballers having human rights?"

3greenrizla's

fade2black wrote:

Personally, I blame those Sky

you cannot blame that Sh*te i watched tonight on Sky. that was a sh*te preformace by a team who did not looked bothered, thats not the fault of a TV company. Sky do not pick the team, if you don't want premadonnas in your team dont pick them.

not that I think the team that we had on the pitch are good enough to be premadonnas :rolleyes:

gandalf

Spot on fade2black. Those players tonight should have been sweating blood to play the best for their country instead of that limp wristed performance tonight.

Absolutely disgusted, felt like cheering for Cyprus towards the end of it because the game meant something to them.

KdjaCL

L5 wrote:

The same point they paid hundreds of millions for tv rights, effectively paying players sky high wages.

In turn to sell it us ? People complain about newspapers yet still buy them, people complain about sky but everyone here watches their team weekly on it (cept pigman and me, we can only dream).

Sky didnt kill football it just bought it to show it to us in a better way, WE dictated that it was worth millions by paying for it.


kdjac

philologos

Bravo f2b

aidan24326

Agree entirely, and the reason I've been turned off the Premiership in the last few years. Still watch some of the games but not with any real enthusiasm anymore. Over-hyped, overpaid, spoilt brats who aren't even one-quarter as good as they think they are in their own inflated heads. Rio wa*ker Ferdinand on 100K per week to play like an ass. Does he give a s**t? Hardly. Ten Million in the bank heals alot of pains. Can't even speak his own language but that's another matter.

For me, the big problem is that Premiership players' wages are not really performance related (leaving aside goal and win bonuses which are no more than pocket money to most Premiership stars) You can play like a donkey and still pick up 30K at the end of the week. Every week. Even for doing nothing. For the money grabbers, and their number is increasing, it's a gravy train like no other.

Raskolnikov

Too right f2b.

As bad as Sky has been for Irish football, I think our problem lies at the door of the FAI too though. Seriously, how can they be reformed?

Chucky the tree

What a load of bollox.



Your telling me all those 11 players and subs and the squad will go to bed happy tonight because they know they will still be getting a lot of money at the end of the week?


Get a ****n grip people.

3greenrizla's

Raskolnikov wrote:

I think our problem lies at the door of the FAI too though. Seriously, how can they be reformed?

this is very true, reform is needed from the top down.

If you were to pretend for a moment that we were an english league club, I think we would be caling for the chairmans head & i do not think we would be in the top flight.

fade2black

Chucky the tree wrote:

What a load of bollox.



Your telling me all those 11 players and subs and the squad will go to bed happy tonight because they know they will still be getting a lot of money at the end of the week?


Get a ****n grip people.

You've missed the point completely. Or did you just want to provide a dissenting voice just to stand out from the crowd?

Chucky the tree

fade2black wrote:

You've missed the point completely. Or did you just want to provide a dissenting voice just to stand out from the crowd?

So what is your point? if we pay them less they will play better? If we dont bother buying the jersies, go to the matches they will play better? If we dont ask for autographs they will play better?

Villain

The players have a lot to answer for individually but they can only play in the positions and system that the "Gaffer" picks.

As some one said in another thread just look at Aston Villa, they have a team that has a lot of ordinary players and under O'Leary last season they didn't play for each other or work hard, bring in a *Top Class Manager with experience* and all of a sudden the players are working for each other and working bloody hard to get results.

Staunton might have been ok if we had a squad of top class players but we don't, we need a manager that get the best out of the players.

Charlton had some very good players but it was his influence and system that made Ireland great by getting the best out of ordinary players.

Dont be at yourself

Do the players even get paid for playing international football? I dont think so. They all choose to play for the national team, often against their club's wishes, and they don't do it for the money - they do it for pride and for glory.

The problems tonight were numerous, and the suits in Merrion Square have a lot more to answer for than any suit working at Sky or the Premier League.

fade2black

Chucky the tree wrote:

So what is your point? if we pay them less they will play better? If we dont bother buying the jersies, go to the matches they will play better? If we dont ask for autographs they will play better?

My point is that the players have lost sight of what it is to play for their country, nay, play football for a living. I don't mind you coming out and saying that my post is bollox, but think about it for a second. Presently, soccer players are living the life of pop stars. Young players come into the game with only one thing on their minds, football. They want to impress their family, they want to impress their fathers...they want to play for their country. But soon, as the pay cheques come in, they slowly begin to lose that passion, they look at it more like a job. This is what I do for a living they say. We're playing too many games, they say. I'm not getting paid enough (for sitting on the bench scrathing my balls), they say. Soon, playing for their country just becomes part of that routine. Chucky, you're entitled to your opinion, and I certainly respect yours, not only on this matter, but...this is mine. I'd like to think that this result was an eye opener for these lads....but, I don't think it has been.

Chucky the tree

fade2black wrote:

My point is that the players have lost sight of what it is to play for their country, nay, play football for a living. I don't mind you coming out and saying that my post is bollox, but think about it for a second. Presently, soccer players are living the life of pop stars. Young players come into the game with only one thing on their minds, football. They want to impress their family, they want to impress their fathers...they want to play for their country. But soon, as the pay cheques come in, they slowly begin to lose that passion, they look at it more like a job. This is what I do for a living they say. We're playing too many games, they say. I'm not getting paid enough (for sitting on the bench scrathing my balls), they say. Soon, playing for their country just becomes part of that routine. Chucky, you're entitled to your opinion, and I certainly respect yours, not only on this matter, but...this is mine. I'd like to think that this result was an eye opener for these lads....but, I don't think it has been.

I know this is your opinion, and i fully understand why you and many people think the same but i still disagree.

You mention big jack in the original post, assuming you ment italy 90 and how well we did then. I am not 100% sure, but i am fairly certain he wasnt getting the same wage as joe the electrican or John the Bank clerk. He was probaly getting a good above them and everyone else. Yet they still played with passion and heart, whats the difference? The manager plan and simple.

It is a job for them though, and they would be crazy to not to take the oppurtunity to make as much money as possible. 99% have no other qualifications and would be ****'d if there career ended tomorrow. They only player on the irish team who are earing alot(footballer wise) are duff, keane and probaly Given. O'shea might be on a decent bit because hes at united. The rest would be pretty average.

My first past was too abrutly put, but i was very frustrated as you are youself no doubt! I just think its no the players fault or sky's or the money.

Irish1 made a great point in another thread. Look at Villa, bunch of clowns last season, get in a decent manager and they are able to draw away with Arsenal and Chelsea. The same 11 players getting booed off the pitch last year and now legends.

with a good manager these players could do very well. Hard to find a decent manager who would want the irish job though.

Anyway, i am off to get hammered and drown the sorrows. I am hoping if i drink enough it will completely wipe my memory of the match.:D

galwayrush

seansouth wrote:

Big pat on the back for f2b.

Best post I've seen here in a long, long time.

totally agree. i'm too angry to add to it.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

gimmick

Thick and thin folks.

_blank_

gimmick wrote:

Thick and thin folks.

I'm sorry, but thin has broken with the FAI's appointment of a no-experienced person to the job of team manager.

I don't blame Staunton for his appointment, he's doing the best job he can, I don't doubt that, but his best was never going to be good enough.

I HATE THE FAI.

fade2black

Someone email RTE and tell them that if they want to produce the highlight of their production calendar they can do an expose of the muppets at Merrion Square. Hidden cameras watching Delaney playing connect 4 with Staunton and such...

Zebra3

fade2black wrote:

I'm ashamed at what I saw tonight. To be beaten 5-2 by germany or Italy would be embarrassing. This is on a whole other scale.

We buy jersies, we buy tickets, we pay for flights and hotels we get into fights with people in pubs, and for what? Professional footballers. Players who don't really have to put in much of an effort, cause they're gonna get paid either way. The green jersey? Sure it's just another game.

Why should we devalue ourselves by watching these premadonnas every week, kissing their badges, pretending they're loyal to a team, and then fucking off to Chelsea at the end of the season. On the front of Hello Magazine with a girl who they probably cheated on dozens of times in the last week.

Players like O Shea and O Brien should be thanking God each night that they're professional footballers, what I saw of them tonight makes me want to vomit. They should apologise tomorrow. To all those who went to Cyprus, and to all those who watched at home.

We go to these matches and we say, "Ah fair play to him, he came over and signed my bit of paper.". bollox. These players are so privilged to be where they are and they think they're doing a fans a favour by signing a bit of paper. Remember, these people wouldn't be where they are without the fans. The only good thing in football these days is the fans.

I miss the days of the big match on ITV. I miss the days of Big Jack. I miss the days where players played their hearts out cause they knew they were playing for the green army. Personally, I blame those Sky. Of course we'll have all those who'll come on and say, oh but without Sky we wouldn't have so much soccer on the box....so what? There's probably a match going on a few miles from your house.

England had a pathetic draw. Ireland made a fool of themselves, the worst performance in the history of Irish Football. What does that say about the Premier League? It says they're not very good afterall. Put them all on a couple of grand a week and see what happens.

For those who think that the GAA should be professionalised, tonight was a great advertisement for it never going in that direction.

That's it. To hell with them. McGeady is still young, his hunger for the game has yet to be fulfilled by the money, and that showed tonight. As for the rest of them... I hope they take a long hard look at themselves tonight instead of sampling the Cyprus night life.

What a load of crap.

Bring back the good old days of Big Jack? How many players played for our NT under charlton cos they couldn't get a game with England? Most then made big money moves cos they were internationals.

The FAI (and the majority of RoI fans) have ignored the LoI for the last few decades. Last night we saw them reap what they sowed by hoping foreign clubs would develop our players or that the granny rule would suffice.

The blame does not just lie with Staunton. You can either sack him and hope for the quick fix solution that will tie the NT over for another couple of years, or there can be a slower but more rewarding option of overhauling the structures of Irish football to serve Irish football. The FAI needs to change, and so do the clubs, but the fans who claim to be upset by all this yet pour their money into the Premiership instead of our own league, well, what do you expect?

Blaming Sky is idiotic. :rolleyes: The players were making plenty from Sky in 2001 when they beat Holland.

fade2black

Zebra3 wrote:

What a load of crap.

Bring back the good old days of Big Jack? How many players played for our NT under charlton cos they couldn't get a game with England? Most then made big money moves cos they were internationals.

The FAI (and the majority of RoI fans) have ignored the LoI for the last few decades. Last night we saw them reap what they sowed by hoping foreign clubs would develop our players or that the granny rule would suffice.

The blame does not just lie with Staunton. You can either sack him and hope for the quick fix solution that will tie the NT over for another couple of years, or there can be a slower but more rewarding option of overhauling the structures of Irish football to serve Irish football. The FAI needs to change, and so do the clubs, but the fans who claim to be upset by all this yet pour their money into the Premiership instead of our own league, well, what do you expect?

Blaming Sky is idiotic. :rolleyes: The players were making plenty from Sky in 2001 when they beat Holland.

You've got blinkers on. I have a little bit more respect for your opinion though to say it's a load of crap. Last time I did that I got banned for a week.

Zebra3

Can you please explain how I have got blinkers on? Please feel free to have a go at anything I post. Surely we can comment on what people post so long as there's no personnal attacks?

scojones

Agree with your original post fade. There's a few things I want to say.

Our football as been in decline since we lost to Spain in the world cup. I would say it has been in decline since Keane left us then, but we played brilliant in that world cup - we could have beaten Spain that day. That bloody penalty.

Anyway, since then players have retired and we've been in trouble since. It wasn't hard to see this in the distance either. I really do not think blaming the manager is the right path to go down. He picked what I feel is the best 11 from the squad that he had. Lads it's really simple, we just do not have the players. No matter what manager we had last night, no matter who it was, he couldn't have done jack shit from the stands. He picked his 11 and said the rest is up to you. And what did they do? Well I'm pretty sure everyone saw the "performance" last night. We can blame Stan for attempting to kick that water bottle in the last match for what happened out there last night, but that would not be right. I think too many people forgot the performance against Chile. I didn't. When I watched the game against Chile I thought to myself "that must be the worst performance I've ever seen from an Irish squad, we couldn't put a pass together". Then we played Holland and I thought the same thing. Then we played Germany and I felt like we had been robbed. I felt like if they were going to beat us 1 - 0 it should have been a nice goal, as they had plenty of chances to score and the deflection they got was unjust both for us and for them. I was optimistic.

And then last night...
I've been to Cyprus four times. I have met the Cyprus international squad twice. The last time I met them they joked with me saying "One day we might actually beat you". Now, since then the Cyprus team has changed alot but I remember thinking "Ya right, not in my life time" when they made that statement. Obviously I didn't say that to them. Eight years later Cyprus hammer Ireland 5 - 2.

This is a wake up call and it has been coming for a long long time. Our team is utter rubbish. They have no compassion, no conviction, no love. It's such a shame that the young lads who are joining this squad have to go through this heart breaking rubbish. It's very disheartening for them, but you can see it has no effect on the older players as they just don't give a toss anymore.

I have said this for god knows how long. O'Shea should never have been on the Irish squad. He is utter rubbish. The same goes for Kilbane. Sure, Kilbane plays his heart out at times, but you can play your heart out all you want - it doesn't make a difference when you're shite.

The buck does not stop with the manager. I do not blame Stan for last nights performance. Your local pub's soccer team would have put on a better performance last night on a hungover Sunday morning.

fade2black

Zebra3 wrote:

Can you please explain how I have got blinkers on? Please feel free to have a go at anything I post. Surely we can comment on what people post so long as there's no personnal attacks?

Have a read of this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52168678&postcount=138

CiaranC

sjones wrote:

He picked what I feel is the best 11 from the squad that he had. Lads it's really simple, we just do not have the players.

Why do people keep saying this?

We had nine Premiership starters last night and McGeady who plays SPL & CL. We clearly have the players to beat a bunch of part timers the like of which Cork City beat comfortably, and Slovakia hammered 6-1.

We qualified for world cups with teams full of journeymen ffs

scojones

CiaranC wrote:

Why do people keep saying this?

We had nine Premiership starters last night and McGeady who plays SPL & CL. We clearly have the players to beat a bunch of part timers the like of which Cork City beat comfortably, and Slovakia hammered 6-1.

We qualified for world cups with teams full of journeymen ffs

And our "luck of the irish" has finally run out. I don't care that they play in the premiership - they shouldn't. Do you really think O'Shea is good enough to play at United? The mind boggles as to why he is still there. It's not just that they are shite, it's that they have no compassion, conviction and love to play in the green jersey. It's a combination of this, the fact that they have nobody on the squad to lead them, and the fact that they are shit.

kinaldo

sjones wrote:

Do you really think O'Shea is good enough to play at United? The mind boggles as to why he is still there. shit.

I like to make fun of O'Shea's performances for Man Utd but tbf to him he's been mis-used as a stop gap utility player pretty much his entire career. I think he's a decent footballer but constantly playing him out of position won't do him any good.

I agreed with the point in your first post about our national team being in decline since we lost to Spain, but to absolve the manager from any blame for last night is ridiculous. We lacked the fundamentals like basic organisation and teamwork, preperation which Staunton is responsible for. If the players aren't responding to his instructions then he'll never be a good manager.

thebaz

its hardly Skys fault or the Premiership or Professionalism that we were humiliated last night .
The Premiership provides quality football, unlike the rubbish that I have been forced to watch by Ireland recently -- i saw a junior soccer match yesterday morning and saw more heart and organisation on display than those muppets wearing the green jersey.
What kind of organisation puts the assistant manager of Walsall in charge of the National team - dont think it was Rupert Murdock --
professionalism improves the quality of top level sport and particularly in football --- John Delaney and the FAI are to blame for our current mess -- why oh why was Brian Kerr sacked to be replaced by the inexperienced man from Walsall ?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Zebra3

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

That's actually quite insulting to the eL players!!!! :eek:

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Bob the Seducer

I always thought the worst defeat I'd ever see was when we lost 3-2 to Macedonia back around 97, I guess I was wrong.
For someone who is allegedly a decent coach how Kevin McDonald left Clinton Morrison and Andy O'Brien on past half time is beyond me. Clint was M.I.A. while Andy had all the match sharpness of a reserve playing in a pre season friendly after a long injury, maybe someone like McShane would have been a better call.
I'm not convinced that Robbie can do the job of captain either, I didn't exactly see much leadership on the pitch on Saturday anyway.
I'm living in dread of the Czechs right now.

Benedict XVI

Raskolnikov wrote:

Too right f2b.

As bad as Sky has been for Irish football, I think our problem lies at the door of the FAI too though. Seriously, how can they be reformed?

Good idea, lets have a review, I believe that there is a company called Genisis that are good in that area. Lets publish the results and see what happens.

finnpark

fade2black wrote:

England had a pathetic draw. Ireland made a fool of themselves, the worst performance in the history of Irish Football. What does that say about the Premier League? It says they're not very good afterall. Put them all on a couple of grand a week and see what happens.

The english premier league is in the top 3 in the world probably 2nd after Spain. However, it is not English or Irish players that making it this good. It is foreign players. Youth teams are gone. The days of Irish teenagers going over to England when they are 14 is coming to an end. Most of them end up on the dole without education

fade2black

Aye I mentioned it another thread, without the foreigners the premier league would really struggle. but at the same time, the wages and transfer fees would not be wildly out of control.

PHB

It's really quite interesting that you've come to this conclusion after we got hammered by Cyprus, and not say after we lost 1-0 to Germany.

Everybody misses the days of big Jack, because when they look back, it was just incredible. But that really says it all about how we look at football.
We want to win, it's just that simple.
Big Jack was fantastic, but he won playing some of the most unattractive football ever seen.
Half our team weren't actually Irish.

Players always look more dedicated in defensive football, because it's simplier to understand and you can easily identify when they are giving it their all because they are jumping in left right and center.

Ultimately all we care about is winning, and it's nothing to do with football losing it's heart, it's just simply that when you think back you don't remember the thing that made you happy was winning.
Big deal, football players have money. If you think the reason O'Shea plays terribly for Ireland is because he makes a lot of money, you are just being silly.
Given makes lots of money, but you don't see him not giving it his all.

If we had won against Cyprus, we wouldn't be having this conversation

event

sjones wrote:

I really do not think blaming the manager is the right path to go down. He picked what I feel is the best 11 from the squad that he had. Lads it's really simple, we just do not have the players. No matter what manager we had last night, no matter who it was, he couldn't have done jack shit from the stands. He picked his 11 and said the rest is up to you.

The buck does not stop with the manager. I do not blame Stan for last nights performance. Your local pub's soccer team would have put on a better performance last night on a hungover Sunday morning.

what are ye on about?

we dont have the players?

do scotland have the players? yet they can beat italy and france?
do norn iron have the players? yet they can beat spain and draw with denmark?

they manager instills the passion in a team, he makes you want to play for the jersey, which stan hasnt done. there is a time when the manager has to hold his hand up, and stan hasnt

he hasnt a clue

soma

3greenrizla's wrote:

this is very true, reform is needed from the top down.

I disagree completely.

Reform is needed, but not in the way most people think. Reform is needed at the 'ultimate' grassroots level - fans.

If you pump your money into foreign clubs (jerseys, trips etc), do not question why the FAI has so few resources.

If you bemoan the fact that the 'foreigners' are making it harder for Irish players to get regular football in england - ask yourself what have you and other fans done to encourage a league for them to develop in at home.

astrofool

As eirebhoy pointed out a few days ago, not much has changed in the team that played on the pitch to the team that beat Cyprus 3-0 a while ago. The 6 goal switch cannot be solely down to the players.

Nalz

will you read that line you just wrote

PHB wrote:

If we had won against Cyprus, we wouldn't be having this conversation

we didnt scrape a victory, which would be pathetic like last year (where a conversation not too far off this was held over that performance)

we didnt get an unlucky draw

we lost

we lost not by one goal

not by two goals

by three goals.

we concided 5 goals against a semi-pro holiday resort country (no offence there to anyone). we lost 4-0 in our own backyard against a weekend Holland team in a friendly. and Chile, who are they? This has been coming. We dont have the players, we certainly dont have the manager(s)...and we do not have the heart - its logical, its obvious and its down right disgraceful

Pighead

Not too sure I'd go along with the "Too much money causing players to lose interest" argument. Look at this years World Cup Final for instance. The millionaires of Italy taking on the filthy rich French. I didn't see a lack of passion from either team. Its not just the premier league that is awash with players on too much money. Italy and Spain also pay ridiculous amounts to players.

Look at the last few World Cup winners and they're generally packed with prima donna superstars. Playing for your country is something to be proud of and I find it hard to believe that the Irish lads simply couldn't be arsed the other night.

I just think it was one of those nights when everything went wrong. If Ireland played Cyprus again tomorrow with the same 11 I'm pretty sure the same thing wouldn't happen again. Of course the team is in trouble but I don't think they're as bad as Saturday nights result suggests.