I've had enough

_blank_

You are only as good (or bad) as your last result.

el rabitos

the problem is that there in an inherent flaw at the basis of the whole infrastructure of irish football

people dont watch the eircom league or go to eircom league matches just because they prefere the premiership or other foriegn leagues, they dont watch the eircom league because its terrible. simple as that. the level of those players in that league in its current structure will never be good enough to significantly contribute to the national team. there will of course be the odd talent that stands out and breaks out of the league, but other than that, nothing.

if you want to improve the national team, have it be a team not dependent on irish grannys and interlaced with players below the cut for the english team then there are a number of questions to be addressed and the infrastructure of irish football needs to be changed.

• how do eircom league players get recruited?
  
• at what age?
  
• who recruits them?
  
• to what extent are they coached and developed, and by whom? and what are the coaches credentials?
  
• where does a 10 year old with similar ability and potential that thierry henry had at that age go in ireland?
  
• why isnt there a footballing academy (or multiple academys in various county's) with top indoor and outdoor and all weather pitches, scouting and recruiting young irish talent, developing them and feeding them to eircom league teams?
  
• sh!t, where do coaches go to get trained in this country? you cant watch an england match on tv without seeing adverts for people looking to be a coach flashing along the advert boards around old trafford.

these are just the basic questions off the top of my head.

the eircom league will never ever be as popular as the premiership for all sorts of reasons, but it can easily be a great feeder league like the dutch or french league, neither are as great to watch as the major leagues, but their respectable and you have the satisfaction of knowing that maybe your watching the next zidane, henry, davids, RVN, and if thats not enough to attract more fans towards the eircom league, then nothing will, because it would attract me.

scojones

event wrote:

what are ye on about?

we dont have the players?

do scotland have the players? yet they can beat italy and france?
do norn iron have the players? yet they can beat spain and draw with denmark?

they manager instills the passion in a team, he makes you want to play for the jersey, which stan hasnt done. there is a time when the manager has to hold his hand up, and stan hasnt

he hasnt a clue

Yes, we don't have the players, and our players don't have the heart for it. This could be blamed on the manager or it could be blamed on how they view the sport (i.e as a job). I agree, it's up to the manager to make sure his players are passionate about playing for their team and it's obvious he has not done enough to ensure this. I do not think he should be sacked though. For starters, who the hell would want the job? I know I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Why? Because the players are shite and they don't have the heart for it. We have nobody to take charge in the team like Keane did. There was no unit, no team effort or structure to the game against Cyprus. No leadership. Robbie Keane cannot captain a team when all he does is wait for loose balls and try to get a goal. You do not influence a team's play or mindset by playing like that. A captain should be someone who is either organising the back four and how they play (Given) or is in amongst the back four or just infront of them - influencing the game from there.

We need a reform of the FAI and a reform of the team. We cannot lay the blame on one person, and I think the manager deserves a second chance.

_blank_

sjones wrote:

and I think the manager deserves a second chance.

Is that second chance against the Czech's on Wednesday?

The San Marino games?

It's not that Staunton deserves a second chance, he should NEVER have been given a first chance, not at this stage of his managerial 'career' anyway.

The players hearts weren't in it. The blame for that lies with the manager.

The manager is not up to it, perhaps the players feel the same many people felt when he was appointed. Maybe that's why they won't play for him.

The FAI appointed the manager, the blame for that lies squarely with them. Wether it be Delaney, or whoever, someone in the FAI needs to hold their hand up and bite the bullet.

But.

That will not happen. How do I know? For far too long I have watched the FAI blunder about the place making ridiculous decisions, making stupid mistakes then doing absolutely nothing about it. This farce is the result of decades of piss poor decision making, back-slapping buffoonishness, inflatable shamrock shakery and downright idiocy.

Genesis report? What happened to it? Where are the shake-ups we were promised?

The appointment of Staunton was a return to the dark-old days of Irish football, have no doubt about that.

Töpher

From another forum (not foot.ie ), sums up my thoughts pretty well:

It's been years since I enjoyed an International as much as Saturday- actually thats a lie, I really enjoyed the last days of that junky Kerr's reign too. But last Saturday was brilliant. My favourite moments were a) the gob****e in the stadium with 'Stan Out' written on the back of a cereal box, and b) the knobend, with some sort of tricolour on him as a scarf, who was giving out about his beloved boys in green being beaten by a bunch of "factory workers"- ignoring the fact that the chap Konstantinou is a regular in the Champions League for the Olympiakos

This was for every prick in Lansdowne in September 04 at the Cyprus game who BOOED when ticket information was announced over the tannoy for the upcoming Shels-Lille game.

This was for the keltic-shirted scum who so cowardly assaulted a regular poster here and good friend of mine with a bottle to the head for wearing his Reds shirt in Stutgart last month.

This was for every leprachained up to **** moron who parades and patronises his "culture" by wearng all kinds of quasi-racist paddywhackery.

This is for all the arseholes who feel the need to emblazon obscure pub names across tricolours. Tri-bytes, take a bow, you goon.

This is for all the 'Ole ole ole ole'/ 'Fields of athenry'/ 'You'll never beat the Irish' false sentimentality that underpins the very sad existence of supporters of the national team.

Celtic Shirts. Jester hats. Leprachain outfits.

For every bell-cheese munching tool merchant who thinks that following a Scottish football team is essential to supporting Irish football.

Michael O' Leary, Darby O' Gill, Jackie Healy Rae, Davy Keogh...... Your Boys took one hell of a beating!

Poetry.

Roll on Wednesday.

_blank_

Einst&#252 wrote: »

From another forum (not foot.ie ), sums up my thoughts pretty well:

It is how I felt too.

Michael O' Leary, Darby O' Gill, Jackie Healy Rae, Davy Keogh...... Your Boys took one hell of a beating!

Mr. Presentable

Pighead wrote:

Not too sure I'd go along with the "Too much money causing players to lose interest" argument. Look at this years World Cup Final for instance. The millionaires of Italy taking on the filthy rich French. I didn't see a lack of passion from either team. Its not just the premier league that is awash with players on too much money. Italy and Spain also pay ridiculous amounts to players.

Look at the last few World Cup winners and they're generally packed with prima donna superstars. Playing for your country is something to be proud of and I find it hard to believe that the Irish lads simply couldn't be arsed the other night.

I just think it was one of those nights when everything went wrong. If Ireland played Cyprus again tomorrow with the same 11 I'm pretty sure the same thing wouldn't happen again. Of course the team is in trouble but I don't think they're as bad as Saturday nights result suggests.

Correct and Right Pighead! The difference is that the French are French and the Italians (apart from Camoranese) are Italian. I'm not sure how many of the Irish actually are. Pride. That's it. Why would an Englishman have pride in being Irish? Big Jack's miracle was that he instilled pride in Irish and English alike, in being the underdog (reject) who wouldn't lie down, nothing to do with nationality.

Pighead

Kenny(English), Finnan(Irish), O'Shea(Irish), Andrew O'Brien(English), Dunne(Irish), Kilbane(English), McGeady(Scottish), Ireland(Irish), Morrison(English), Keane(Irish), Duff.(Irish)

Nah don't think pride has anything to do with it either. As you already said, it was like this during the Charlton era and it was never questioned back then. Saturdays team had 6 Irishmen and Wednesdays wil probably have 8 (Doyle, Reid back in for possibly Morrisson, Kilbane/McGeady) And thats not including Paddy Kenny whos parents are Irish and who is on record as saying he grew up in a totally Irish environment and for all intents and purposes may as well have been born here.

Little-Devil

Orignal poster, I agree with most points you made except the one were you blame SKY? With or without sky the players today would still be getting well paid, especially when you have the likes of Abramovich who has billions + all the major sponsers now of days. The likes of Manu, L'pool, Chelsea and Arsenal could easliy afford to pay the wages that the players are on today. SKy is not the only major renenue that clubs in england get each season, they have season tickets, shirt sales and sponser money. If anything i think have been good for the game promoting a the premier league. If it weren;t for them we may not have the players we do in the national team today.

Steve Stauton has no managerial experience what so ever. I wouldn't apply for a job as a manager at "TESCO". Why? cause i wouldn;t have a clue. Eammon Dunphy said today that the FAI expect to make a turn over of €30million, so why not use the money to get a top manger in? Bobby Robson is there only to advise and give advise. Why? Cause stauton has no experience. He has said he's building for 2010, so whats he doing now, experementing with the national team and making the nation look like gobsh*tes who haven;y a clue. The FAI should all be sacked or resign ASAP. John Aldridge didn;t even get interview, but he has the experience and the passion and respect of the players. I honestly dont think the current crop has the belief in staunton and they are hardly going to admit that.

Liam miller is injured and withdrew yet he still wont call carsley. WHY? or does anyone know the answer. Steven Carr retired and came back and got recalled but he's never been the same since his injury at spurs over 5years ago.

I know i;ve slightly gone of the OP topic, but im still angry after saturday like most here and wednesday will be interesting. If we get hammered, he has to walk.

MrJoeSoap

el rabitos wrote:

they dont watch the eircom league because its terrible. simple as that.

Its attitudes like this that piss off every single fan of the league on this site, especially the fact that it was seemingly completely unprovoked. If you don't watch the league thats fair enough, but you are NOT then in a position to comment about its standard.

As Einsturzende said before, you are only depriving yourself of some absolutely great games. I wouldn't even know where to begin if I was listing all the great eL games I'd been to, there have just been so many.

astrofool

Zidane and Vieira aren't really french, it's nothing to do with pride and passion, it's the idiot of a manager, who's one good quality should have been that he would invoke pride and passion in the players...

therecklessone

astrofool wrote:

Zidane and Vieira aren't really french

Zidane was born in Marseilles to Algerian immigrants. Better to highlight Makelele and Malouda from the WC final.

astrofool

Either way, the likes of Tony Cascarino turned in the best performances of his career in an Ireland shirt, and was 100% not Irish.

el rabitos

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Its attitudes like this that piss off every single fan of the league on this site, especially the fact that it was seemingly completely unprovoked. If you don't watch the league thats fair enough, but you are NOT then in a position to comment about its standard.

As Einsturzende said before, you are only depriving yourself of some absolutely great games. I wouldn't even know where to begin if I was listing all the great eL games I'd been to, there have just been so many.

by terrible i'm referring to the standard of the football being played in the league. alot of people are only interested in investing themselves in leagues that display teams that are challenging in domestic and european competition as well as seeing those players in international competition. the eircom league doesnt offer these things.

_blank_

el rabitos wrote:

alot of people are only interested in investing themselves in leagues that display teams that are challenging in domestic and european competition as well as seeing those players in international competition. the eircom league doesnt offer these things.

Shelbourne, Derry City, Cork City, St Pats, Sligo Rovers, Shamrock Rovers are all challenging domestically currently.

el rabitos

seansouth wrote:

Shelbourne, Derry City, Cork City, St Pats, Sligo Rovers, Shamrock Rovers are all challenging domestically currently.

and in the champions league/uefa cup proper and the majority of the players play at international level?

Xavi6

el rabitos wrote:

and in the champions league/uefa cup proper and the majority of the players play at international level?

Unless I'm mistaken Derry City more than challenged Paris St. Germain in the UEFA Sup and also beat Gothenborg, a tem who is no stranger to the Champions League group stages.

As for internationally, any Irish football fan in the know is of the opinion that the likes of Jason Byrne deserves more than the few minutes he has got to date. Also the countless players mentioned throughout these threads warrant a plce in the team. Maybe if you broadened your horizons you wouldnt make such naive comments in future.

el rabitos

Xavi6 wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken Derry City more than challenged Paris St. Germain in the UEFA Sup and also beat Gothenborg, a tem who is no stranger to the Champions League group stages.

As for internationally, any Irish football fan in the know is of the opinion that the likes of Jason Byrne deserves more than the few minutes he has got to date. Also the countless players mentioned throughout these threads warrant a plce in the team. Maybe if you broadened your horizons you wouldnt make such naive comments in future.

naive comments? how is anything of what ive said wrong? so far you and des have just paraphrased my posts to suit your own way of seeing things in a pro eircom league light

your being all bitchy like i've got some kind of issues with the precious eircom league. i made a long post the other page about what i think the flaws are in the structure of the eircom league, i posed some of the basic questions i think need to be addressed and so far nobody has answered.

i want nothing but the best being made of the eircom league, but i think the structure of irish football needs to be altered for teams like shels and boh's etc to be able to push on futher in europe and for the league as a whole to be able to contribute toward the national team

bohsman

el rabitos wrote:

naive comments? how is anything of what ive said wrong? so far you and des have just paraphrased my posts to suit your own way of seeing things in a pro eircom league light

your being all bitchy like i've got some kind of issues with the precious eircom league. i made a long post the other page about what i think the flaws are in the structure of the eircom league, i posed some of the basic questions i think need to be addressed and so far nobody has answered.

i want nothing but the best being made of the eircom league, but i think the structure of irish football needs to be altered for teams like shels and boh's etc to be able to push on futher in europe and for the league as a whole to be able to contribute toward the national team

The league is coming on in leaps and bounds and if anything attendance is going down, what would you do to improve things? The FAI claim that theyre going to put an unprecedented amount of money into promoting the league when they take it over next year.

el rabitos

bohsman wrote:

The league is coming on in leaps and bounds and if anything attendance is going down, what would you do to improve things? The FAI claim that theyre going to put an unprecedented amount of money into promoting the league when they take it over next year.

i made a post on the last page about the questions i think need addressed http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52175215&postcount=53

i dont think throwing money at advertising the league is the real long term answer to any of the problems

Xavi6

el rabitos wrote:

naive comments? how is anything of what ive said wrong? so far you and des have just paraphrased my posts to suit your own way of seeing things in a pro eircom league light

And all you have done is point out how much of a negative thing our current league is. We are merely pointing out how much Irish football has come on. Our teams can now compete in Europe better than they ever could before and our players are on a par with those playing international football. The powers that be just need to realise it.

Töpher

Do you think people like yourself actively participating in going to games and helping with the financial troubles by paying for the guts of 2 hours entertainment may help. Or is it another case of "I won't give over any money until there's enough money there that mine isn't needed"?. Either way its your choice. But sweeping statements like the football being terrible, when it would seem that you've never actually been to a game, only serve to piss people off.

Reading your other linked post, you said that the thoughts you may be watching a good player for the future would entice you. Well most recently you missed out on Doyle. What about Jason Byrne? Quigley and Dicker, strong U21's for Ireland? John Paul Kelly? Keith Fahey? Eamonn Zayed? Stephen Ward? The list goes on. But until you see someone else in England actually single them out, will you refuse to accept the talent on show? Then there's the likes of John O'Flynn, Joey Ndo (over 20 Cameroon caps, still only about 29), Alan Moore (8 Ireland caps) who are nothing but sublime players.

_blank_

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Alan Moore ... sublime player

:eek:

Eh...what?

Bateman

Let's not get carried away, Alan Moore doesn't even get his game if I'm not mistaken.

Either way, the principle that a well-organised group of the best eL players wouldn't have allowed that fiasco to ensue is beyond doubt IMO.

el rabitos

Xavi6 wrote:

And all you have done is point out how much of a negative thing our current league is. We are merely pointing out how much Irish football has come on. Our teams can now compete in Europe better than they ever could before and our players are on a par with those playing international football. The powers that be just need to realise it.

i gave constructive criticism, thats not being negative.

as for "our teams can compete", they can put in enthusastic displays and ask a few questions of the teams like psg and deportivo, but as soon as it gets to the away game they're beaten handily, and that is competing to an extent, but with proper infrastructure in put in place in the country theres no reason why the teams cant be getting to the group stages of the european competitions.

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Reading your other linked post, you said that the thoughts you may be watching a good player for the future would entice you. Well most recently you missed out on Doyle. What about Jason Byrne? Quigley and Dicker, strong U21's for Ireland? John Paul Kelly? Keith Fahey? Eamonn Zayed? Stephen Ward? The list goes on. But until you see someone else in England actually single them out, will you refuse to accept the talent on show? Then there's the likes of John O'Flynn, Joey Ndo (over 20 Cameroon caps, still only about 29), Alan Moore (8 Ireland caps) who are nothing but sublime players.

lots of fine players have played for the u21's. the u18's or u21's a few years ago were one of the better teams in the world, you wouldnt know by looking at the national team right now. being a good u21 doesnt mean a great deal unless you progress, and ireland have suffered in that way.

i think the word sublime is a bit overkill. either way, none of the players you listed are comparable to the players i listed.

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Do you think people like yourself actively participating in going to games and helping with the financial troubles by paying for the guts of 2 hours entertainment may help. Or is it another case of "I won't give over any money until there's enough money there that mine isn't needed"?. Either way its your choice. But sweeping statements like the football being terrible, when it would seem that you've never actually been to a game, only serve to piss people off.

and you have an idea of how much money ive spent on the eircom league? you know how many games ive been to? or are u just talking out ur back side looking to provoke some kind of retarded interweb arguement?

John_C

Bateman wrote:

Either way, the principle that a well-organised group of the best eL players wouldn't have allowed that fiasco to ensue is beyond doubt IMO.

Neither would the team we had out if it was well organised. I shudder to think what would have happened to a team of eL players managed by Staunton.

MrJoeSoap

el rabitos wrote:

and you have an idea of how much money ive spent on the eircom league? you know how many games ive been to? or are u just talking out ur back side looking to provoke some kind of retarded interweb arguement?

Please do tell.

el rabitos

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Please do tell.

u go count up the price of all ur match tickets and bags of burdocks chips in dallymount, i'll go do the same, then we'll compare and see who the coolest is, m'k?

MrJoeSoap

Well immediately to my right I reckon I've around €300 worth of tickets.

Not bad considering Shels and a few other clubs don't even give tickets, and I've a terrible knack of losing things like that!

http://rapidshare.de/files/36155082/VID0003.AVI.html

Check that goal out, its Keith Fahey for Pats last Friday. I've another one on the way.

bbability

This is steering away from the point of that was first raised. The fact is the FAI will find it difficult to fill Croke Park at this rate. IMO some senior players have not performed in the Green Jersey for a long time. The likes of Duff and Keane haven't produced the goods for Ireland and the question has to be asked if their hearts are in it. Stan can take the rap for part of it but some of the players need to ask themselves are they wearing the jersey to represent thier country or are they wearing it for their profile?
They should all be stripped of everything bar the essentials until after the game on Wednesday. What I mean by that is the comfort things such as PS2's, Mobile phones, Warm water etc etc, Then and maybe then might they wear that jersey with pride.

_blank_

bbability wrote:

Warm water

A goulag in deepest Siberia would be too good for 'em.

Perhaps we could whip their feet if the fail to win on Wednesday too?

quazzy

fade2black wrote:

We go to these matches and we say, "Ah fair play to him, he came over and signed my bit of paper.". bollox. These players are so privilged to be where they are and they think they're doing a fans a favour by signing a bit of paper. Remember, these people wouldn't be where they are without the fans. The only good thing in football these days is the fans.

[sound] Hammer hitting nail on head [/sound]

f2b for president...of the FAI

Q